[Petition]

[Roadkill]

Why not just take the gang war to Paruni? Instead of disturbing the role play on Argonath?

[Aragorn]

The problem of gang wars are not in rules for each gang war... but in people (players)...
Yes you can make a rule of no respawn killing... But how exactly you want to control it? You cannot control all your members - how want you to control others?

I was thinking about it a long time ago, made a topic in Clans HQ to hear any thoughts about gang wars but did not get any respond from group leaders of Clan HQ...

Lets clear it up...

1. Any reason for gang war which is including real game stuff, like territory/property - already should involve admins... Which we do not support at all... They have enough work without spectating all gang wars and fight who said first a "bad word"... Especially to investigate was the reason correct or not... And especially if other gang will start complain (with losing the real stuff yeah will be complains and will be abuse as well)...

2. No any gang leader can control all involved gangsters... Who came after who came twice etc...

3. Gang wars should not be restricted to some special place (take this place and make there gang wars)... That is not a paintball club...

4. Gang wars will be often... Not because of bad leaders but because of specific of game, where players connect to server in different time... Connected later members can not know that "today we already had a gang war"...

5. Also I do not support the idea of gang war taking place on other server...  :conf:

With this all the rules which can be used - are nothing...

The one thing that can make it correct and nice in roleplay - gangs themselves...

Let me tell you one long time ago situation...

RockStars Clan was invited to the clan war by its "old friends"... The reason was "Lets see who suck"... We almost agreed... But the RockStars Clan Founder Servius denied such clan war even though he was the best deathmatcher and veteran of clan wars... Clooak remembers the times of -MS- clan wars I think... The clan war was denied because of the reason the opponents came with... It was full of hate and flame... He was correct: wins R* clan - and "old friends" will attack and flame us even more... Win "old friends" - and the shit will go more with happy asses instead of faces... Servius denied war because DOES NOT MATTER which RESULT could be: it was from the beginning not enjoyable stuff...
And simply why: the game is a game, people play it to enjoy and not for flames and insults...

This is the main reason why gangs complain on each other... They do not understand - that being friends will make gang wars much more enjoyable then being harsh to each other... Being in one gang does not mean to hate other players... And gangsters do not see the difference between gangster and player...

The problem which have criminals towards ARPD or "veterans" to "noobs"...

Gangs should develop the idea not in "rules", though they can make some rules inside their gang wars relations (that is not difficult to discuss with each other and members), but should develop idea in relations to each other...

I know what shock players got after my announce about 3 gangs leaders as admins... But one of the good sides - they will see themselves the admins possibilities and will understand why admins are very strict in this question...

This will also (hope so) help them to understand that they all are equal for developers, and will show (hope so again) that developers decided to help them with it by giving their leaders the moderators statuses...

Forget about admin control after every gang war...
Nowadays - it is in your hands to improve gangs roleplay between each other, in communication with new players and in responsibility for every chaos your gang war can cause...

[NitrOx]

Very nice words, but your last sentence, does that mean we now got the responsibillity to take responsibillity on everyone´s faults in our groups, instead of Admins? If that is your last point, I guess this Petition is accepted.

[Brains]

1. Any reason for gang war which is including real game stuff, like territory/property - already should involve admins... Which we do not support at all... They have enough work without spectating all gang wars and fight who said first a "bad word"... Especially to investigate was the reason correct or not... And especially if other gang will start complain (with losing the real stuff yeah will be complains and will be abuse as well)...

Forget about admin control after every gang war...
Nowadays - it is in your hands to improve gangs roleplay between each other, in communication with new players and in responsibility for every chaos your gang war can cause...

Very nice words, but your last sentence, does that mean we now got the responsibillity to take responsibillity on everyone´s faults in our groups, instead of Admins? If that is your last point, I guess this Petition is accepted.

It just confirmed my point of view that admins should not be a babysitters. Instead of that, gangs should take own things in their hands and deal with it.

[NitrOx]

And you know what, Brains? That is exactly one of my goals that I were trying to reach, you can see if you read some of my posts..

[Whiteman]

I think everything what Aragorn said, is pure truth, and we will try to get our gangs/mafias to improve that way.

[Wash]

All groups that wish to gang-war should do so privatley and try to go un-noticed, so admins have nothing to whine about. :-D

[Dave]

All groups that wish to gang-war should do so privatley and try to go un-noticed, so admins have nothing to whine about. :-D

Which would break the rules technically as the admins were not aware of it and will treat it as Deathmatching.

[CM Daniel]

Which would break the rules technically as the admins were not aware of it and will treat it as Deathmatching.

There isn't a problem unless the other party starts whining to the admins that the attacking party is deathmatching. Only then.

But really, if you are being attacked by a whole family who have invested a great sum of money into weapons and protection, it usually means you have done something wrong...

[Pandalink]

There isn't a problem unless the other party starts whining to the admins that the attacking party is deathmatching. Only then.

But there is the issue, even if both gangs agree to hold it (and isolated, mind) and nobody whines, some admins feel it is right to 'butt in' so to speak. The simply broken logic of this fact is why many people got annoyed at David breaking up the Stracci/Gvardia thing when this topic was made, despite nobody reporting.

[TruthSvensson]

Yeah even some times i fight with someone 1 vs 1 some admin freezes us both and asks why we DM when we were doing a fight in role play, even when none of us used /report.

[CM Daniel]

But there is the issue, even if both gangs agree to hold it (and isolated, mind) and nobody whines, some admins feel it is right to 'butt in' so to speak. The simply broken logic of this fact is why many people got annoyed at David breaking up the Stracci/Gvardia thing when this topic was made, despite nobody reporting.

Once again, it's sad to see Argonath turning into a bureaucratic hole.

Anyway, if one admin seems to act so bureaucratical about this when both parties agree, just respond by explaining to him that you are holding an 'event' just like the RI:FC, where I don't see people getting banned for participating.

[Cofiliano]

You're just saying that because you get owned on Paruni.

I get owned ? Wanna test me ?


Violet i am the first guy who sayed if gangwar rules aply, it shoud happend MAXIMUM Once a day, cause 24/7 shotout arent gangwars, its  a DM marathon...

Araatus have gangwar with us, as a try to take over San Fierro again for example. They pick a right moment, announce it with a "signal" , it doesnt have any compensations, cause its  consider ONE of the ways for them to make our influence in SF lower. Other way is to buy more  propertys, try taking drug, arms, hooker, extortion market from us, but yes, gangwar is the main way to do it.

[CM Daniel]

Violet i am the first guy who sayed if gangwar rules aply, it shoud happend MAXIMUM Once a day, cause 24/7 shotout arent gangwars, its  a DM marathon...

That won't happen. If it would, we would've experienced it by now. Nobody is waiting to attack eachother 24/7, because it requires a lot of grouping up and with the current range of in-game crashes it is virtually impossible. Next to that, it costs a shitload of money.

[Violet]

I get owned ? Wanna test me ?


Violet i am the first guy who sayed if gangwar rules aply, it shoud happend MAXIMUM Once a day, cause 24/7 shotout arent gangwars, its  a DM marathon...

Araatus have gangwar with us, as a try to take over San Fierro again for example. They pick a right moment, announce it with a "signal" , it doesnt have any compensations, cause its  consider ONE of the ways for them to make our influence in SF lower. Other way is to buy more  propertys, try taking drug, arms, hooker, extortion market from us, but yes, gangwar is the main way to do it.

This isn't a gangwar/deathmatch server...

Gangwar is not the main way to attain those things, money is.

Gangwar will increase moaning, due to people getting punished for breaking them.

24/7 gangwar doesn't happen now, but you will be more likely to see server rules broken if gangwar is allowed, rules or no rules.