Need clarification on "cant force RP rule"

[Void]

Maxy, one thing you seem to get wrong is that cops 'got' script support.
From the very first scripts cops have a number of commands in order to support their actions.
Over time the script support they have has gotten less, not more.

Only "+" I see was only taking away /frisk. Nothing else dramatically changed.
You call this democracy Gandalf? Do you know what is the first thing a new comer asks in /ask.
Its: "How I get gun" or "/duty no work". Does that say something? Civilian role is rarely visible on the streets and you know why?
Exactly because of officers. Day before yesterday I had a privilege to train and help a new comer. While I was showing him some commands, we were constantly followed by an officer. The officer suspected him for not driving properly, while I was driving. He suspected him for more false reasons then killed him every time he suspected him. As he is a new comer I got the officer away through /report. This is a little dot in a mosaic that happens on Argonath. I agree with Maxy on several points. Today's term of a civilian is the one who has not been seen by any officers. Or is idling in a car writing in main chat, discussing with others. But no, people like to use the term "moan" to escape mistakes.Officers really don't need anything then a free issued heavy weapon as Desert eagle, a /suspect command, and a radio. Believe me, I was an officer, a criminal in Gvardia and a civilian, fireman and mostly medic.
One member of Argonath said which I find it very funny, don't take me serious on this one: "Cops, are just a TDM force with Voice/radio communication" 
Nothing can be changed now, but taking the facts on the "table" makes us feel easier rather then keep it inside and moan in main chat.
I feel "ranted out" enough now. We can discuss this without any excesses, flames, insults, peacefully present our perspective of Argonath, or you would like to moderate us all? I am ready to listen an officer saying something on "Criminal rant" and vice versa. This is after all and interesting conversation.

[Maxy]

Another thing is that you seem to think citizens ban only talk in main chat and drive around. This is incorrect as well, as citizens can operate whatever non-criminal job or business they want.
Probably due to the lack of RP skills and the idea imported from other servers that everything has to be script supported, people have trouble playing citizens.

They can.. but they don't. The reason that people think "Everything has to be script supported" is because there is no reason to play as a citizen, there is no advantage to it. No real pros and cons, you're just the grey area that is caught up in between cops and criminals.

[Altair_Carter]

IF some players want to know why they are moderated, read my post on page 3.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=57123.30;start=%1$d
Huh?

EDIT: damn, ninjad.

[Jamal]

The first person to continue the BS about cops vs criminals will enjoy a nice ban. Clear ?

That's because people don't just evade the police to not get wanted.

Criminals' advantage on /su is that the cops have to see them. Cops can't /su someone who they can't see, one of the reasons is that they won't know your ID. And when you're not wanted, cops can't do anything to you. But you people are too busy focusing on what's going on AFTER getting suspected.

...

They can.. but they don't. The reason that people think "Everything has to be script supported" is because there is no reason to play as a citizen, there is no advantage to it. No real pros and cons, you're just the grey area that is caught up in between cops and criminals.

They can.. and *MOST DO.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=57123.30;start=%1$d
Huh?

he meant page 2.

[9r2e5i3k]

The reason that people think "Everything has to be script supported" is because there is no reason to play as a citizen, there is no advantage to it.

Disagreed; you're obviously thinking only about making a profit, not about playing a role that's not a criminal nor law enforcement.

And what script support do citizens need anyway? They got houses, businesses, vehicles, skins, animations, possibility to send money to others, various chats and the whole map of SA. What else do they need to make up a scenario? The answer would be, a brain.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=57123.30;start=%1$d
Huh?

prolly someone removed his post and Gandalf's reply got moved to Page 2.

[Gandalf]

Only "+" I see was only taking away /frisk. Nothing else dramatically changed.
You call this democracy Gandalf? Do you know what is the first thing a new comer asks in /ask.
Its: "How I get gun" or "/duty no work". Does that say something? Civilian role is rarely visible on the streets and you know why?
Exactly because of officers. Day before yesterday I had a privilege to train and help a new comer. While I was showing him some commands, we were constantly followed by an officer. The officer suspected him for not driving properly, while I was driving. He suspected him for more false reasons then killed him every time he suspected him. As he is a new comer I got the officer away through /report. This is a little dot in a mosaic that happens on Argonath. I agree with Maxy on several points. Today's term of a civilian is the one who has not been seen by any officers. Or is idling in a car writing in main chat, discussing with others. But no, people like to use the term "moan" to escape mistakes.Officers really don't need anything then a free issued heavy weapon as Desert eagle, a /suspect command, and a radio. Believe me, I was an officer, a criminal in Gvardia and a civilian, fireman and mostly medic.
One member of Argonath said which I find it very funny, don't take me serious on this one: "Cops, are just a TDM force with Voice/radio communication" 
Nothing can be changed now, but taking the facts on the "table" makes us feel easier rather then keep it inside and moan in main chat.
I feel "ranted out" enough now. We can discuss this without any excesses, flames, insults, peacefully present our perspective of Argonath, or you would like to moderate us all? I am ready to listen an officer saying something on "Criminal rant" and vice versa. This is after all and interesting conversation.

The moderation was because I warned in the beginning not to make this a cops vs criminals thread.
You made your bed, lie in it.
Argonath was never a democracy, and never will be. We do value and listen to the opinions of players, but the decisions are ours to make, not by any majority of representative system.

As for officers, they have to follow procedures. If they do not, they can lose the permission to play as officer. And the databse of copbans will show that a number of players lose that every day.
As you were explaining to the new player, I just wonder why you did not at the same time explained to the officer how to behave correctly. Perhaps your standard adversity of cops played a role ?

[Gandalf]

They can.. but they don't. The reason that people think "Everything has to be script supported" is because there is no reason to play as a citizen, there is no advantage to it. No real pros and cons, you're just the grey area that is caught up in between cops and criminals.

If there is no advantage, the challenge is greater. Do not be lazy.

[Maxy]

Do not be lazy.

Same to you, Owner of the server.

[Pandalink]

7509 posts without a moderation and the post I finally get moderated for isn't even a bad one.

My post wasn't biased in any way. I made sure of that with the numerous edits I made, specifically in order to avoid falling into the category of people reacting to the post on page 2 that Gandalf made.
But fair enough, if you don't want me to point out the elephant in the room.

[Void]

As for officers, they have to follow procedures. If they do not, they can lose the permission to play as officer. And the databse of copbans will show that a number of players lose that every day.
As you were explaining to the new player, I just wonder why you did not at the same time explained to the officer how to behave correctly. Perhaps your standard adversity of cops played a role ?

I agree on the point of cop ban.
Second: I am not a Kraken, there are helpers who are there to help players. This player was a regular, not a new comer.
You do endorse freedom of speech, correct? because you consider everything I said as a rant. I stated that this is a plain conversation and we are willing to hear both sides experienced issues. So we can actually do something and reduce the paranoia between cops and criminals.
While creating the server and spanning it you know there will be problems like this, not all peachy and stuff. 50% of the problem can be solved through a conversation, rest through actual act. I don't know why muting the voice of common sense. I never wanted to start a war.
I've been in multiple factions, I've never flamed, insulted anyone, I got a kick once from Tai because I told he's Oberfuhrer(Some of us were joking/talking in main chat about Nazism), the rest is Jeffrey for flood. Now this. After 2k+ posts, 1 sentence of approval. I don't know what's the problem with a simple discussion?Did you see anyone getting offended Gandalf?
Panda :"Pointing out an elephant in the room"  - nice one.

The question is still on the table.

[Antonio.]

I'm sorry, but then you have no idea how a criminal group works.

Lol don't try to tell me something like "you haz copz in de insidezz to helpz u".

[Altair_Carter]

Lol don't try to tell me something like "you haz copz in de insidezz to helpz u".

I won't explain anything since you would most probably disagree with it, and therefore, I will waste my time. Go on and play as a bunch of rich gangsters in the hood, I care less.

[Gandalf]

The first person to continue the BS about cops vs criminals will enjoy a nice ban. Clear ?

You should be happy I was not in a bad mood....

[Gandalf]

I agree on the point of cop ban.
Second: I am not a Kraken, there are helpers who are there to help players. This player was a regular, not a new comer.

Which is probalby why we should never have started the helper thing. Now people will hide under the pretense it is not their job.

You do endorse freedom of speech, correct? because you consider everything I said as a rant. I stated that this is a plain conversation and we are willing to hear both sides experienced issues. So we can actually do something and reduce the paranoia between cops and criminals.

Tried many times, but criminals refuse to listen.

While creating the server and spanning it you know there will be problems like this, not all peachy and stuff. 50% of the problem can be solved through a conversation, rest through actual act. I don't know why muting the voice of common sense. I never wanted to start a war.

See my post above. We have enough criminals vs cops topics.

I've been in multiple factions, I've never flamed, insulted anyone[/b][/color], I got a kick once from Tai because I told he's Oberfuhrer(Some of us were joking/talking in main chat about Nazism), the rest is Jeffrey for flood. Now this. After 2k+ posts, 1 sentence of approval. I don't know what's the problem with a simple discussion?Did you see anyone getting offended Gandalf?
Panda :"Pointing out an elephant in the room"  - nice one.

Additional information to my post :

Discussion is great, but not  regarding a topic that has already been discussed to death.
Criminals whine about advantages, yet refuse to bring solutions. As long as there are no viable solutions brought in the ideas section, nothing will change.

Want to improbe RP? Then stop this criminal vs cops stuff and become standard citizens. Citizens without affiliation with crime, without the need to break the law and act tough.

[Antonio.]

. Go on and play as a bunch of rich gangsters in the hood, I care less.

Rich gangsters ? You either don't know how Gvardia rp's or you are just confused.