The Players, The Administration and the attitude in the community of ArgonathRPG

[Devin]

The Players, The Administration and the attitude in the community of ArgonathRPG

Created by:

Devin_Seville
[TCL]Dellstorm
 And
[WS]Thomas_C

Introduction
This post is intended mainly for the ArgonathRPG SA:MP Administration team in response to the out of control players we often see around SA:MP.

This is intended to make all the administration aware of what is happening to the community inside SA:MP and understand the factors that have created it.

This post is not intended to offend, criticize or insult any player, it is to address the issues of bad behaviour and give response to ways in correcting it.

Foreword
As we all know, being a part of the administration team can be stressful and at sometimes quite a hand full.

I have noticed a drastic change when I compare the administration from the year 2008 compared to 2011. I understand many will say its “due to new players” and due to players “attitudes” and all, but it isn’t.

The Problem
The problem comes when the administration is not strict enough with misbehaving players. In the ArgonathRPG Community, the non-admin players make up around 80% of it. In truth Moderators and Admins are all players just with a few more commands.

Our Job
We are here to look after the players, help out new players and make the community a better place for everyone to enjoy great games like SA:MP, IV:MP, VC:MP, MTA:SA, MTA:VC and others.

In recent times it would appear as if the level of strictness in the administration team has decreased, and therefore letting players get the mindset that they can do what they like whether that be death-matching, abusing scripts or otherwise.

We’re all players
As we all know, many players from around 2007 to 2009 which are still around have a great attitude and personality. A minority however seem to do as they like, disrespecting and ignoring the administration as they know they can get away with it.

They are the key players that know wrong from right and should be helping newer players follow suite.

For example a well known player I have noticed numerous times gets punished for acts that they have done, then arguing with the administration with an all mighty attitude due to the fact they have been a player longer than a certain admin or moderator have and feels their right is always correct in any argument.

The Attitude
In regards to the administrations attitude, from a players perspective, I see often when some admin members are questioned or told that they are wrong they tend to return with a line in relation to “Dont tell me what to do!“ or “ I’m an admin, stop telling me how to do my job! “

How can a community grow when people who are looked on for help like admins answer with childish remarks such as above mentioned? Admins and Moderators, along with any other player, should learn from their mistakes. Admins and Moderators aren’t gods; they make mistakes as well. Should an Admin or Moderator make a - in your eyes - mistake, you may always correct him. However, do this with proper manners, so that neither parties could feel attacked. Also, the Admin or Moderator should not immediately defend himself and explain if he or she feels that he or she did the right thing.

Some players may ask questions that appear stupid, but admins are here to act as a leader and role-model to the players, no matter what the question is.

So what are admins?
You are an idol to all the players which means you are here to show all players how to act. If you act kind, they will act kind towards others. If you are rude and disrespectful towards them, they will act disrespectful towards you and others.

Do unto others as you wish others to do unto you
Remember the line?

Coping with the position
We all get annoyed and stressed sometimes. This has been said more than once and I will say again:-
Please, when you are not in a good mood do not take it out on the players, we don’t need mods and admins disrespecting players. It makes players think its allowed and this leads to the trolling both in game and on the forums which we have seen a lot of recently. If you happen to be stressed or frustrated, you may always go on your non-admin account.

Specific reasons for banning and punishing players
Another issue is the punishment reasons, like the bans for “harry potter” instead of “flying hacks” or “airbreak” is not needed, that is basically trolling in players eyes which lets them think they may “troll” as well.

All punishment reasons must be formal and to the point!

I see many players kicked for reasons like “Dm” and “carkill” now be serious!

Do you expect a new player to understand that “dm” actually means “deathmatching is not allowed” and for them to understand?

Do you think they read the forum posts under every section to make sure they know all the rules before they play?

Can they understand that “carkill” truly means “carkilling is not allowed”?

Be Respectful
We must and I say again, we MUST BE FORMAL and to the point with punishment reasons for players to take you seriously.

If we can bring back the formality in the admin team which is vital, we can and will solve all these issues with players having an attitude towards the server administration.

Teamwork
We clearly need to be more united as a team, we can’t have administrators and moderators working together when they can’t stand each other. As an administration we are a family, we need to help each other out when one is struggling or in need of some help. Sometimes people are shy about stepping on admins toes, but sometimes it lets people know their toes are there!

The Border - Player Meets Admin
There is a border between being friendly and being strict. Although I say we must be friendly, I also say we must be strict at the same time.

We can play along with the players and have fun, not distancing ourselves or getting angry. When a set of rules are broken, someone is disrespected or someone abuses the script, whether be that a bug or a player with some commands, they must be punished correctly, and it must be the right punishment in relation to what the player has done.

I have seen admins on several occasions not punish players because of a friendship that might be threatened. You should not be worried about friendship if the player has committed a rule- break.

We are here to act as leaders and role-models for the players. Professionalism is key for administration to get respect from players.

Respect the players and they will respect you, you must always be professional in the ways that you act In-Game and on Forum. On any instant messaging application - this is your business, so use this as the tool for anything else that’s not towards an admin duty.

The if’s, but’s and maybe’s about punishment
If you know its wrong, IT IS WRONG! There’s no fine line.

Trusting the player or having known them for a long time does not make a difference where punishment is concerned. If you are unsure and another admin is present, always get another admin to assist. Also, if you feel that a certain player is trying to get you angry, make sure you ask another admin to handle him. If the same thing happens, you can be fairly sure he’s not there to respect admins, but to annoy them. Punish accordingly!

Listen to both sides of the story separately and always ask people who have seen the incident, you can ask them for their opinion on the situation giving admins a better gather of the story.

Remember to never act on a problem without understanding everything! I’ve seen too often people will spam the chat with “Dmer” and because of the volume of requests in report, many parts of the process get thrown out.

Moderator & Admin make a powerful team
I would like to see more admins and moderators taking part in the same request if it’s possible. That way the moderator can learn, the player can learn and the administrator can knock two birds with one stone, so to speak. Far too often one moderator is left to fill in all the requests of users.

If you feel that a player has been disrespectful towards you, ask a fellow administrator to look into the problem and have them punish the player to prevent the players from complaining about “admin abuse” when you punish a player which has been disrespectful towards you. Yes, you can punish them yourself but to rule out any way of a player saying it is “admin abuse” I advise you to ask another of the administration to give punishment if it is in order.

Unity not Munity
In order for the community to grow and become something of a family if you would call it that, we need the administration team to act like family would, communicating in a friendly manner, helping one another out when there are issues whether that is In-Game or Real-Life issues, a good thing you can do is help one another out if someone is going through a hard time, being kind to each other leads to good relations and friendships.

Role-Play is the way!
Often people will look at when someone registered and link that to how their level of role-play is, some look at administration and say they can’t role-play because they have never witnessed the admin role-playing due to being constantly busy, and that is NOT how we want players to see us as.

We need the administration  to go out and around role-playing with the players so they can see we are just like them, you may say “yes, we can go role-play with them, but what does that help with?“

Mentally, for players to be role-playing with administration, it gives them the view that they are here to help and lead. Since the only way they see many of the admins is when they are standing at LSPD waiting for reports or just standing at City Hall, so in the players eyes the administration look like people who are just there to punish them and nothing more.

We need to reach out to the players, go role-play with them, interact with them and behave like regular players instead of totem polls doing nothing at LSPD or City Hall. But at the same time, remember that admins that are waiting for reports, will be there to help you out once you feel that a certain player is not following the rules. If an admin or moderator is not role-playing, this is no reason for you to insult or verbally attack said admin!

More Admin Made Events?
Admins interacting with players on an event basis creates friendships and it allows players to have some fun on behalf of the administrators, instead of players just endlessly driving a police car around while admins stand idle at a place for a few hours.
We, the administrators, need to interact with the players to bridge the gap between players and administration to create a more friendly and enjoyable environment for everyone to have fun at.

Admins vs Player events is always a win!
Notice that when everyone is taking part in an event there are less people doing reports, less flaming and generally happier environment.

Of course they take a bit longer to setup but the rewards are ginormous for both sides!

Players’ behaviour
A player behaves and follows the rules while any moderator or admin is online, but when there is no administration around they do as they like in the mindset that they wont be punished. I have witnessed this many times.

They rule-break, spam main-chat, write messages in main-chat in all capital letters and the list goes on. Players need to be shown that any form of rule-breaking, be that messages in full capital letters in main-chat to death-matching while no administration on WILL be punished, and punished severely especially if they know the rules and how to behave on the server. If you, as a regular player, want this kind of behaviour to disappear, you may always take screenshots and send them to the e-mail address, which is specifically created for such purpose. You could also send the screenshots to “befriended” admins (or even the ones you dislike, to show your good intentions). Do make sure you don’t use this way just to get revenge on a person you dislike!
^{Make sure you don’t spam every admin on the forum, just because you want a player to be punished that badly.}

Less Robotics and more common sense
I am not saying you must act like robots and do everything exactly as I am saying it but there MUST be borders, even for the administration team.

For players and admins to mix and have fun together, there needs to be something where both parties can do something, for example hosting events. Back in 2008 there always used to be regular events hosted by some of the administration team for the players to earn a bit of cash and have some fun, nowadays I see the majority of events held are small events created by players for the other players.

What happened to the admins hosting more events for the players? Has it vanished?

Disrespect from “the bad apple” admins is the key factor
If a player feels neglected and disregarded they will tend to break rules, flame and do whatever it takes to get attention when they feel left out; it is the same with a pet animal, if you're paying attention to one of your puppies, and the other is sitting there all alone, that lonely one will tend to bite and mess with things until they get attention, because they do not like being disregarded and left alone. Same for the players if they are not helped and listened to, they will start doing what they want which is anything, and majority of the time is rule-breaking like ramming, death-matching and so on.

Why is this an issue when we have a good player base?

Having a good fan base is due to the support of moderators, administrators and managers. Once it’s started, it has to be kept up to scratch as new members join all the time. We can’t rely on long-time players to fill in.

Every issue is an important one. If someone has filed a report and it does not to get looked at it from an admin, this is really an act of ignorance. I have not yet seen a single Moderator or Administrator send a personal message to someone that has filled a report saying “Thanks for using /report”!

Most times when admins receive reports by many they are simply ignored if they are to do with car killing or other minor offences; how crazy! If you are finding yourself in a situation where you receive many reports, and you lack manpower to handle all of them, make priorities! A health- hacker, though frequently misunderstood, does not get top-priority, if said hacker is out in the desert. Helping out someone that is being death-matched is much more important. If said hacker does not know he has been noticed using hacks, he will not leave.

It would be nice to see admins sending the player a Personal Message letting them know you will come help them as soon as you have dealt with whatever you are dealing with currently to give them piece of mind in knowing administration will be with them shortly, as not responding to them leads them to think administration does not care or cant be bothered.

Rewards for the top players?
Why can’t we be nice to people who genuinely want to help the community? Rather than just thinking it’s normal? Even offer rewards for people who display great behaviour, so that they are more inclined to behave that way in future.

Undercover accounts, who uses them?
If you want to play and not help players please use your Under-Cover/Non-Admin account,
when a player calls an admin for help, they expect the admin to help them and when an admin does not respond to them they turn to spamming main-chat and spamming /report when no administration responds to them; and they get punished for it.

Is the administration a little tired?
In order for a real business to function at full capacity, they need the workers to have devotion and good relations with all other employees; and I can say the same for a communities administration team. If we do not have devotion for the job, what are we truly doing in the administration team; ask yourself that.

Good relationships with between members of the administration team leads to an administration team with a goal, and that goal is making this community a better and more entertaining place for all.

Could there be a better system?
Wiith a server like ArgonathRPG it is extremely vital that there is administration online at all times to keep everything in order. Moderators, after all, are on “Trial-Administration”: a test phase. They should not be left alone, along with a server filled with players and no-one there to ask for assistance.

It would be nice to see least one or two admins with moderators online at all times, if possible. I have seen some administrators resigning because they can not cope or are done with the work, but the thing is a key factor to them leaving the administration team is due to the work load.

Moderators - Doing the work of Administrators
Should this really be the way?

Moderators are trial-Administrators, but should they have to do the work of others?

After all, if a moderator has to sit on the server doing the administrators work they will, eventually think of leaving due to the workload. It stands to reason, as this is the starting line for them to make an impact on the community and it is also the area where they have the biggest connection towards helping players.

What would make a moderator be unsure about doing admin duties?
A lack of Administrators!

It gives a bad outlook at administration work when they soon feel overwhelmed by the amount of work they have to do.

If there were three Moderators and two Administrators, think of what the quality would be like when handling requests made by players.

Any Admin online?
How many times have we seen this statement?
It is all good being an administrator, but whats the use if none are online, in game or inactive?

So many times there are less than 5 members of the administration with over 100 players online, even in peak times. This serious point needs raising. Far too many times I have seen this and it sickens me, when I know the amount of reports admins get from players and the amount of work the admin crew have to do.

Admins on a regular basis do get over-run by reports from players and for a single admin or even moderator to deal with reports from multiple players at one time is simply impossible. A server of this size needs at least two administrators to every 30-50 players; it is simply impossible to cope with the amount of work required from an administrator if there are not enough online.

Its understandable that the work load is intense at times. It really does help when more administration active for most of the day. Many would agree that the SA:MP administration team is far large enough to have administration active all day round due to all the different timezones.

Note to players: If you notice that there’s a lot of players online, and only a few admins, use your common sense. If you report someone for spamming your PM or overusing caps lock in local chat, don’t get mad and spam /report. The admins are most likely busy with more important reports. Besides, administrators and moderators cannot see other player’s PM, so they will, in many cases, discard the report as they have a lot of other things to do.

Where’s The Property Admin!
In regards to activity and availability, property administrators are another difficult item to come across, does it seem right that there’s only three or less?

Often many players are in need of property administrators and there are none online, perhaps adding a few more as I recall only a small amount of administrators are in-fact property administrators.

Are you dedicated to your duty?
Being an administrator takes up some of your time which you should dedicate to going online, to help out all the players. It would appear as if some members of the admin team aren't that dedicated towards new players or trolling players as they should be.

Sometimes letting other administrators know this really does help for the better! Sometimes you might be asked to perform another task for a while: perhaps a property admin role? If no one gets told how would we know!

Is resignation the final straw for the good admins?
After a time we start feeling run down, and not in the mood for being an administrator.

We have seen this with many valued administrators in the past, where, due to real-life issues or work constraints, they leave because they feel they cannot keep up with the conditions of being an admin.

What a joy it would be to have these old time administrators on helping for say an hour a day in the most (in)active periods? Remember people can always learn from the wise.

Every part of the administration team is valuable
Every moderator and administrator has wanted the admin position; they have applied for it and you all know how difficult it is to become one.

Managers see something in you that can be of value within the admin team. Every bit helps and everyone is good at a certain part of it. By overloading moderators with requests, it makes it harder for the administration team to focus on what they are really good at. Some of you are extremely good at helping players whilst others are good at handing reports and organising events.

It can get horribly laborious when admins have to do the same job day in day out without any praise. This may be one of the reasons why the admin team has looked so unhealthy in terms of how many active members there have been. Don’t feel shy to thank an admin for responding to your report. It’s a little boost which, in some cases, is really needed!

What are administrators really good at?
Administrators that understand their roles and use the tools they have to make the community a better place! What more could people ask for?

Being an admin gives you the ability to help players in real life as well as in game. The reason for this is because as human beings we can relate to each other, just like in real-life and use it to help each other. Administrators are the guide just like a big brother, of the moderator which in turn is the guide of the player.

The answer is: HELPING!

Mini story of the Administration position - A curse of a privilege?
The generic admin story is as followed:

At the start, many admins were simply a regular player which had just found this random server and joined.

Then you became enticed in how it all worked and you were hooked. After a time you showed a helpful and kind attitude towards other players.

Then at some point you saw a topic with the heading “Moderator Applications”, you were interested so you clicked on this nice looking topic and you decided to post an application.

Then you where chosen as a moderator on the server, after time you proved your worthiness and loyalty to the managers, which then promoted you to your administration position after time and you were ecstatic.

After time that feeling wore off and now some see their administration position as more of a burden than a privilege due to the kind of work they have to cope with, plus the negative reactions they get towards their actions.

If your perspective of your administration rights is more of a burden, it seems like you have lost the plot of from when you applied to now. Back then you applied because you wanted to do what you could do to help out the players and now it has become boring to you, if you feel like that it would be best if you took a little break from the administration work, I am not saying resign, but go inactive for a bit, go spend some time off the game or on your Non-Admin account so you can enjoy the game fully without having the worry of administration work for a while.

Take a small break to cool down and get a new look at the whole game and all the players. This privilege of administration rights is not just given to any random player but to select individuals which show promise and the key aspects which are looked for when choosing administrators. This may also help you to get that feeling of helping others back!

Quality vs. Quantity
On a game like San Andreas, it looks as if quantity would be better.

A massive administration team, even more players than ever before and then loads of scripts; why would administrators need to do a lot?

This isn’t the attitude that leads to a respectful player fan base as an end result.

Sometimes its a good idea to invest in an administration team which is made up of around 20-30 members rather than an administration team built up of 70 members where they do as they like because they can.

I am not saying “Only the best of the best“ should be chosen to be arrogant, but to be honest;
there is no place in the administration team for people who wish to disregard rules and harm other players, only those which show a great personality and the perfect attitude should be chosen for an administrator position.

What makes an admin value their position?
Now this is to what it all comes down.

• Why did you apply for an admin position, and does it still mean to you what it did when you applied?
• Are you being praised for the work you have done and continued to do?
• What does it mean to you, and are you still helping the community with your continued input?

The Creepers and the Crawlers
Many players say people are “asslicking” to get an admin position. This must just be looked at as jealousy from the other player. The reason people apply for an admin position is when they feel they are capable of doing what they can to help out within the server and actually help all the players.

To be an admin takes great perseverance and dedication, which many do show. Once a player is given an admin position they do their best to keep up to standard with all of the other parts of the administration team.

They do it because they love it, or because they love helping other players enjoy their stay on the server.

Once a player is given an admin position they feel blessed to be entrusted as an administrator for the server, they should do all they can to keep impressing the managers and server owners with their outstanding work and good ethic.

Lets keep this method of practice working to ensure the servers always stays the best it can be and be a great leader in the ranks of other servers in the gaming arena around it.

Last but not least - money-hungry, event-begging chaps
This phenomenon is, more than likely, well-known to the majority of players. Despite a recent “attack” against such behaviour, from members of the community, this is still a huge problem. Admins are not there to make sure you have enough cash to buy 1337 cars and an ‘oh-so-awesome’ house.

Recent investigations showed, that when an event has a prize of $100.000, the attendance is far greater than when the prize is “just” $5.000. The game is all about having fun; you don’t need a lot of money for that. Praise other players for their role-playing efforts as a cab driver, and pay them $5.000!

Thanks for reading
I would like to say thank you to all who have read this post and hope this gives tribute towards making the administration team a better place player, moderator, administrator and manager alike.


Kind regards,
Devin_Seville, [TCL]DellStorm & [WS]Thomas_C

[Caltson]

I'll read the complete topic tomorrow, on first sight this looks impressive and very well written. Hope other share my opinion aswell.

[Gandalf]

Some good points. but also some things are contradictory.

1. Admins should not give in to old players debating, yet should listen to old players trying to help correcting their mistakes.
The problem is that admins and moderators might not be able to tell the difference here. There for we always state: If admins make mistakes, send a report. We will try to correct the mistakes. That way admins can be sure that whoever tries to argue their way out of a punishment, can be handled strict.

2. Quality over quantity, but there should always be a team online.
Unfortunately these two do not always mix. Admins ad moderators can lose activity temporarily or just over time, as a result to have good coverage we need quality and quantity.

[DellStorm]

Hi to Gandalf, Ryan and other members who have viewed the post.

We wanted to address the main principles of behaviour within the community and with it offering solutions as to what could be done to rectify them.

Although contradictory, we wanted to bring forward as much as possible views from both players and the administration.

I can only apologise if their is parts which are unclear and can offer more detail as to what is meant if required.

Thank you appending your reply and for taking the time to read the post.

Regards, [TCL]DellStorm


p.s If you do not like what we have wrote, do not post one line replies. The administrators and manager who created this post have spent hours preparing it do not need one line childish remarks. If you have any critical points then please feel free to highlight them. Any other forum posts that are not useful towards helping the community will be removed.

[Exclusive.]

I have to agree with Leon.
Why do you moderators use your almighty powers on every single thing which might turn against you? Non-admins are getting offended, insulted, flamed whatever every day. Admins won't take that much action against it, until you step on their toes, they'll get mad and use their hammers.

[Nathan]

Wonderful topic, I actually read it.

Now to respond. You are getting offended? Too bad, suck it up. There is a line of being "offended" and actually being offended. I seen this type of situation many times on sports such as soccer. A player 1 is going versus the other player 2 and at one moment, the player 1 is "hit" against the ankle or something versus the player 2, then, the player 1 "falls" down in acts all hurt. It's this what makes things unfair. There is a border line of being "offended". Say someone tells you to fuсk off. You may not be offended truly, but you still report them to have "some" revenge against them. Maybe, if you are not getting it, you should fuсk off so the incident wont happen again. Now, if there was something like truly being offended, such as someone is gathering in a group to actually defame you, then that's when you should take action of reporting. In result, grow the fuсk up and learn to defend yourself. The administrators don't always have the time to solve your sissy fights with others telling you to fuсk off. It's simple once you learn to do it. Don't report unless you are truly insulted or offended.

[Ben.]

Absolutely agree. Good post, well written, and brings up the major points which need to be looked at within Argonath. We must help new players, rather than hinder them, but also remind the older players about the rules when it is needed. There should be no bias, therefore no unfair treatment between groups, whether age, time on Argonath, or IG groups.

Moderators try their hardest, but they cannot punish people in the same way an administrator can. This means players should try to help them by talking to rulebreakers, explaining the rules, rather than making useless posts in main chat, which does not help them.

Certain players do need to realise that just because they have been on Argonath longer than somebody else, it does not make them better. They should respect admin decisions, even if they know they are wrong. It is incorrect to humiliate anybody in front of the whole server. If you have a problem with a decision, respect it and follow the instructions anyway, and make a private report later, or try to talk it through with the admin in question.

Older players should know the rules by now, and should not need an admin watching everything they do. It is not too much to ask to be a good example to others in what you say, and the way in which you act on the server. Don't forget, most new players will follow what you do, so give them a good lead, not a bad one.

[Nathan]

I agree. The older players should by now realize that they don't need to be nurtured everyday and should take upon responsibilities and following the rules. They are expected to follow the rules and that's why consequences for them are much strict versus for those who aren't so old on the community age.

Also to point out, sometimes try to solve the problem yourself versus calling an admin each time. For example, if you are being death matched, or see a hacker, try to explain to them that hacking or death matching is against the rules and inform them of the consequences. The older players should always leave at a minimum a certain minutes to just help out the community and the new players. For example, the group Gvardia successfully has done this and recruited many new members and now we see them being active versus them being left out on their own. So kudos to them for doing that, and I suggest other groups and cliches to do the same.

[Leon.]

The problem comes when the administration is not strict enough with misbehaving players.

In all honesty, this completely and utterly false, and practically an insult to any active administrator.

[[NP]Monte Montague]

Note this is a serious discussion, so I'm treating it as so, do not misunderstand my comments.

Some good points. but also some things are contradictory.

1. Admins should not give in to old players debating, yet should listen to old players trying to help correcting their mistakes.
The problem is that admins and moderators might not be able to tell the difference here. There for we always state: If admins make mistakes, send a report. We will try to correct the mistakes. That way admins can be sure that whoever tries to argue their way out of a punishment, can be handled strict.

2. Quality over quantity, but there should always be a team online.
Unfortunately these two do not always mix. Admins ad moderators can lose activity temporarily or just over time, as a result to have good coverage we need quality and quantity.

" If admins make mistakes, send a report. We will try to correct the mistakes. "

But then you are seen as something something...

I'll read the complete topic tomorrow, on first sight this looks impressive and very well written. Hope other share my opinion aswell.

Same here.

I agree. The older players should by now realize that they don't need to be nurtured everyday and should take upon responsibilities and following the rules. They are expected to follow the rules and that's why consequences for them are much strict versus for those who aren't so old on the community age.

Also to point out, sometimes try to solve the problem yourself versus calling an admin each time. For example, if you are being death matched, or see a hacker, try to explain to them that hacking or death matching is against the rules and inform them of the consequences. The older players should always leave at a minimum a certain minutes to just help out the community and the new players. For example, the group Gvardia successfully has done this and recruited many new members and now we see them being active versus them being left out on their own. So kudos to them for doing that, and I suggest other groups and cliches to do the same.

" if you are being death matched, or see a hacker, try to explain to them"
But then you look like a wannabe admin / community leader.

"For example, the group Gvardia successfully has done this and recruited many new members"
And people commonly associate the whole group of Gvardia with DMing, etc.

"So kudos to them for doing that"
What about NinjaPie 
"Also to point out, sometimes try to solve the problem yourself versus calling an admin each time."
But your trust is with (some) of the admins, and you know they can do a better job then you, so let them.

"The older players should by now realize that they don't need to be nurtured everyday"
But everyone likes to be pampered T.T.

Absolutely agree. Good post, well written, and brings up the major points which need to be looked at within Argonath. We must help new players, rather than hinder them, but also remind the older players about the rules when it is needed. There should be no bias, therefore no unfair treatment between groups, whether age, time on Argonath, or IG groups.

Moderators try their hardest, but they cannot punish people in the same way an administrator can. This means players should try to help them by talking to rulebreakers, explaining the rules, rather than making useless posts in main chat, which does not help them.

Certain players do need to realize that just because they have been on Argonath longer than somebody else, it does not make them better. They should respect admin decisions, even if they know they are wrong. It is incorrect to humiliate anybody in front of the whole server. If you have a problem with a decision, respect it and follow the instructions anyway, and make a private report later, or try to talk it through with the admin in question.

Older players should know the rules by now, and should not need an admin watching everything they do. It is not too much to ask to be a good example to others in what you say, and the way in which you act on the server. Don't forget, most new players will follow what you do, so give them a good lead, not a bad one.

"There should be no bias, therefore no unfair treatment between groups, whether age, time on Argonath, or IG groups."
So treat older players nicely too .

"They should respect admin decisions," "try to talk it through with the admin in question."
Even a new player would not accept something he does not think is good, also you cannot talk openly with most admins about stuff, they will probably like "OMFG f**k YOU NOOB, I KNOW WHAT DO, f**k YOU, OK? */WARN(ed)*"
Also refer to my post bit about private report in response to Gandalf.

In all honesty, this completely and utterly false, and practically an insult to any active administrator.

Don't delete my f**king post.

Realize they may make errors, but they are trying to highlight something serious, if you think its wrong then just say, don't be so aggressive and macho...

[Leon.]

I have to agree with Leon.
Why do you moderators use your almighty powers on every single thing which might turn against you? Non-admins are getting offended, insulted, flamed whatever every day. Admins won't take that much action against it, until you step on their toes, they'll get mad and use their hammers.

This post isn't deleted. I give up.

[Boozman]

Incredibly well written guys. It seems my opinion on a few things have been changed. I'll be sure to remember the lesson(s) I've learned from this topic.
Again, thank you for your contribution. Perhaps this can be used as a 'wake-up call' for some, it sure has made me think on the position a bit.

I'll be sure to take what I've learned in-game with me.

[Gird3r]

"Lack manpower for reports".

The way you described this I disagree with. For your own sake in regards to trust, I assume you are not blaming all of the administration team.

I usually talk to the players that reports, and yes. I will be honest, if I get 5 reports at once about different cases. Chances are, one of them will not be dealt with even if I want to deal with it. Fix it, whatever. I do actually keep small notes sometimes in the busiest hours that I note down small reminders in and check them off one by one.

What players have to realise, that if there is 100 people, and 1-2 admins/mods ingame, you have to have some form of patience when reporting. Stomping your ground and crying will not help. There are those who has reported stuff before you. And I will not throw an case out of the window and sit down and deal with yours just because you are to selfish to even consider that there might actually be other players who has reported before you (depends on the situation). Have some patience and I will continue checking off reports.

For me, I'd say I look at priority like this:

Hackers>Script abusing>DeathMatching>Flaming>Generic rulebreaking.

If I get two reports about deathmatching, the one who I saw first in line is the one I will check up first. If I only got two currently, I constantly switch between them to keep an eye on the "reported" people. I also consider "first in line" and the "situations" on deciding what reports need urgent help and which reports I can Come back and check randomly to see and look for rulebreaking.


Some of the problems listed are really good and with proper "solutions" added. And "what can we do". But an minority of the points I do not agree with at all. Like the one I wrote about in the beginning of this post.

[Devin]

In all honesty, this completely and utterly false, and practically an insult to any active administrator.

If you had read the topic properly you would have noticed this line right near the top.

This post is not intended to offend, criticize or insult any player, it is to address the issues of bad behaviour and give response to ways in correcting it.

Incredibly well written guys. It seems my opinion on a few things have been changed. I'll be sure to remember the lesson(s) I've learned from this topic.
Again, thank you for your contribution. Perhaps this can be used as a 'wake-up call' for some, it sure has made me think on the position a bit.

I'll be sure to take what I've learned in-game with me.

Thank you for your positive input to this topic which we have put together, I am glad to see it has made an impact with you and I hope many others, I would also like to thank you for reading the entirety of the topic and understanding it so well.

"Lack manpower for reports".

The way you described this I disagree with. For your own sake in regards to trust, I assume you are not blaming all of the administration team.

We do not mean by that, that the administration is slacking in their job, but simply that there is not enough active administration through the day to spread the work load between one another. For a single administrator to be controlling the server for a few hours by themself is a bit much to be asking from them especially when there is over 100 players at times.

I usually talk to the players that reports, and yes. I will be honest, if I get 5 reports at once about different cases. Chances are, one of them will not be dealt with even if I want to deal with it. Fix it, whatever. I do actually keep small notes sometimes in the busiest hours that I note down small reminders in and check them off one by one.

That is why we where trying to say, in order for the server to run smoothly we need a few more active administration to spread the load at busy times.
It is not helpfull when we have a large administration team but only a few are ever online.

What players have to realise, that if there is 100 people, and 1-2 admins/mods ingame, you have to have some form of patience when reporting. Stomping your ground and crying will not help. There are those who has reported stuff before you. And I will not throw an case out of the window and sit down and deal with yours just because you are to selfish to even consider that there might actually be other players who has reported before you (depends on the situation). Have some patience and I will continue checking off reports.

For this I would say like I just mentioned above, a more active administration team will ease the work load which is on top of a few administrators.
Its not easy helping out over 100 players by yourself.

If I get two reports about deathmatching, the one who I saw first in line is the one I will check up first. If I only got two currently, I constantly switch between them to keep an eye on the "reported" people. I also consider "first in line" and the "situations" on deciding what reports need urgent help and which reports I can Come back and check randomly to see and look for rulebreaking.

That is a good way to look at things, by judging the severity of the reports, you can choose either one, depending on which is more urgent and which one can wait a bit while you sort the previous issue out.

Some of the problems listed are really good and with proper "solutions" added. And "what can we do". But an minority of the points I do not agree with at all. Like the one I wrote about in the beginning of this post.

Thank you for your input towards this topic which we have created, it is really appreciated. If you feel anything we have said may need to be altered, please do so if you wish.


~Regards
Devin Seville

[Leon.]

If you had read the topic properly you would have noticed this line right near the top.

Learn the importance of an implication.