VCPD - Approaching the public.

[JDC]

Name: [EAF]Marcell
Subject of your comment: Hand-to-hand combat
Message: ARPD officers should get hand-to-hand combat training. It's really annoying that if multiple hooligans approach a cop and want to vandalise him, all he does is /c sur and shoot them in the face with a shotgun while they're unarmed..

Sincerely, Citizen of Vice City, Marcell

Hand-to-hand combat in VC:MP is shitty anyway, unlike MTA:SA / SA:MP where it is actually more threatening. VC (in multiplayer, at least) hand-to-hand combat is less effective on someone right next to you than when weapons are used at point-blank range, when it should be the inverse.

As for VC:MP FBI, I have dedicated my time to personally overseeing its recruitment and development until it becomes a full-fledged Agency like the other FBI Divisions. We will need more manpower before we can split and operate separately from VCPD, and as of now I have already opened RP investigations.

How we will get the necessary manpower, is to be decided by me and AlexThompson.

[Marcell]

You could as well say 'combat is shitty in vc so it will be better if we give whole server miniguns so killing is easier'

hand-to-hand combat in VC isn't shitty. It requires tactic just like shooting does. Come see my bare knuckles event that EAF hosts, you will change your tune (just don't come with a gun in your hand)... IMO it's pure bullshit that if you attack a cop using fist (roleplaying a drunk vandal for ex.) he will just put a shotgun slug into your face. In my opinion it's pure deathmatching, it's like cops shoot warning shots in the air and I headshot them all and say 'oh sorry, self-defense kill'

guns should be only used against guns. Criminals would surrender more if cops wouldn't ram and shoot them whenever they are running away, unarmed. Shooting is suspossed to help you take down the suspect and make him surrender, if it fails then you're suspossed to kill him (or if he's holding a hostage at gunpoint)

when a bunch of guys attack you using fist, you should use the nightstick and fight (unfortunely it's not synched so you're forced to use fists) and if you are really low on HP, you should begin shooting, since then you are in life threat situation.

[Klaus]

Marcell is exactly right. Not anyone can win a fist fight, it's not as simple as you think. Anyway I thought it was in ARPD regulations that cops can not open fire at unarmed suspects, but maybe I'm wrong?

[SugarD]

VC (in multiplayer, at least) hand-to-hand combat is less effective on someone right next to you than when weapons are used at point-blank range, when it should be the inverse...

Not really. Why should hand-to-hand combat be more effective than a gun? You're using your hands, not a weapon that blows holes in people. If anything, that is more realistic. You should be focusing on arrests first, and fighting only as a last resort, not the other way around.

[~Legend~]

All members of the VCPD (those that are directly employed by us - full list may be found in the public section of the ARPD forums) are trained and advised to judge each situation accordingly, depending on what is required; rather than having to follow things word for word from a book as that would not be practical, and it is almost impossible to cover every single situation that may come up.

It is rare in day to day work that officers find themselves in the middle of a hand to hand confrontation. These may not be as threatening to life either - be it a criminal, civilian or police, and therefore may not be as serious as a fight which may bring firearms into the equation.
While hand to hand combat situations are rarer, if someone does get out of control, they may be restrained by multiple officers, and force used (no weapons involved). A warning shot may be fired, and if, and only if the suspect continues to be violent, decides not to comply after several warnings, more direct force may be needed. 
Each situation would have to be assessed individually, and if the suspect continues to escalate out of control, threatening others and causing damage, VCPD may have to engage.
(Like in real life, we can't actually knock down a suspect and pin them down immediately, so we have to think how forceful one can be.)

Every single criminal would be given warnings, and the chance to surrender (their offences would determine how much or how little).
As for unarmed suspects, no VCPD officer should open fire at them without again, warning them, explaining them of the situation if possible and giving them the option for some form of an investigation (note: in-game) as with any other criminal if relevant.

[Klaus]

Soo.. will an officer shoot at a criminal attacking him with fists, yes or no?

[~Legend~]

Soo.. will an officer shoot at a criminal attacking him with fists, yes or no?

No: If it is directly apparent that he is causing no other harm/damage to anyone else, and is not accountable for any other serious offence.
Officers would look to bring the criminal under control, and investigate them when they are at a stable state.
Personally, I don't think it is fair to "kill" someone - in a RP sense, after all it is a game environment - for minor crimes at any cost.

Yes: If there is serious threat of some sort, warnings (either physical or verbal) would be issued.
If after extended periods of time the criminal still doesn't seem to be giving in, and damage/risk continues to escalate, officers may have no other choice but to stun the individual enough to make them incapable of carrying out significant actions.

[Klaus]

So your saying, in some cases its ok to fire a shotgun at an unarmed suspect?

[SugarD]

It should be similar to what SA:MP (supposedly, but doesn't really) enforces where you only open fire if there's a imminent threat to someone's life or well-being.

[~Legend~]

So your saying, in some cases its ok to fire a shotgun at an unarmed suspect?

Yes: If there is serious threat of some sort, warnings (either physical or verbal) would be issued.
If after extended periods of time the criminal still doesn't seem to be giving in, and damage/risk continues to escalate, officers may have no other choice but to stun the individual enough to make them incapable of carrying out significant actions.

If someone is simply standing there, causing no apparent harm, we don't tend to jump out on them and unload our bullets.
If they are not complying whatsoever, and is in the mentality to cause harm to life, we may have to use direct force to prevent them from doing so if there is no other option at all.

We treat every suspect with a level of caution. Especially when approaching them. They may appear completely out of the way, but we cannot be certain always.

[freestyle_Shadow]

Name: SpiralRock

Subject of your comment: Roles and Transfers

Message: Well, VCPD is not active much, but when it is, the resources are wasted. First of all, in vcmp invents are the most important aspect. So, VCPD members should be looking for suspects going after glory(drugs & smuggles). SWAT should be most active, and only be there for EAF and other shootings. VCPD should work with FBI finding small time drug smugglers on street.
We all know, in 1.9, smugglers were the only reason for so much money in hands of people(it caused recession), people were carrying 1000 vodkas in pocket. Well VCPD, Must protect things getting smuggled.

So, I can conclude:
VCPD and FBI: drug racketeering, stopping smuggles, prostitute trafficking(all small time RP bad-ass jobs).
SWAT: Initiate huge recruitment, transfer all possible sharp-shooters from VCPD into SWAT(Verz, bass, ANYONE who can shoot stubby and crouch glitch), Keep good RPers but not-so-good shooters in VCPD & FBI. SWAT should be fighting Furies. Whereas VCPD solve smuggling cases.

This will certainly improve quality in VCMP, though you may say it is leading to DM. It is leading to a better Police department.
Remember, harsh times requires harsh measures.

Possible Ranks:
VCPD Members(chief and all sub divisions included):
Legend(chief)
Alex_Thompson(deputy)
Shadow.(for now only, he is improving good though, can transfer him to SWAT later on)
+++Start taking players in VCPD, fast. Possibly take VCMP newbies. They have blood and life in VCMP shooting and skills.

FBI:
JDC (He should start his own line of inquiry, getting new vcmp players inside FBI straight away, not transfering them from SWAT or VCPD until required fast)

SWAT:
Marcus(head)
Leonardo
Danigold
Bass
Verz
aXXo
Helix

Big SWAT group so that, when EAF is causing massacre in streets, atleast police got good weapons to fight with...

Thanks, Willy

And marcell, such an incident happen'd to me 2-3 days ago.. Muzdaaz,Leet or Lance and some other guys were on to kill me with fists, I was alone, called Legend for backup, Kessu was standing there with his m4. I had around 50-30 left and I shot some warning bullets, no one cared. I had to shoot, I tried to fight back but I was outnumbered.. I got down but thanks to a hotdog of mine

[~Legend~]

It has been some time since things were updated on this topic, but to keep everyone posted changes are on the way.

A VC:MP public board on the ARPD forums (link to follow) is only a stone's throw away and in the future it shall serve as a good means of communication between law enforcement and the general citizen.


We hope to work with you to build a safer and stronger Vice.

Best regards,

Legend
VCPD Chief

[Klaus]

the general citizen.

Who's this?? :conf:

[SugarD]

Who's this?? :conf:

Anyone who isn't Law Enforcement that is also not a criminal.

[Kessu]

Anyone who isn't Law Enforcement that is also not a criminal.

It must be the yeyo, I swear I have not seen one who is not a dealer!