Perm Ban Issue

[Aragorn]

To be ready for admins meeting I need to collect all info about admins activity, each of them, reports, logs... As usually, actually... But I have no time to collect all this, and Xcasio is busy as well...

That is why there is no yet admins meeting...

However I was already trying to take admins attention by posting some hints in my signature... Banana for 600 seconds or permbans for farts should be stopped... I was pointing the same on admins chat in game during my short visits... But lack of my activity probably made it useless...

Anyways... Permbans are used in extra cases or cheat... Cheating can be not only using cheats... Also abusing script commands to get advantage... This classified as cheating... Extra cases: constant disrespect/flame/other shit/flood/spam/scam... If player constantly does it, if all what he brings to server - constant negative, moaning, shitting, provoking - he can be easily permbanned... I pointed the CONSTANT word as it is the main in this cases what leads to permban... If guy is new, if guy is just pissed off on some accident - thats hardly a tempban... Banana for 30 seconds is enough...
But some players can be pissed off even with banana for 30 seconds and instead of calming down develope things in a negative direction even more... More longer he will continue shitting about admins and banana in 30 seconds - more chances admin will ban him... 1 hour of ban is enough... If player noticed in constant shit about everything, forums, server, sites or communities of clans or groups - permban is the one thing he will get...
And there is no shit to cry about...

[SugarD]

I gotta agree with you there. The actions being taken are a bit overboard, so I can see how it goes both ways. If activity with the admins is fixed, and then they are properly trained as you said, I think there may be a chance to have them help change the community's negative views into positive ones, but it will definitely take some dedication given how bad things have gotten at this point.

[Nathan]

Like, argonath just needs a refresh Breeze, especially the administration, they are threatening and getting too out of order with there attitude and taking actions way to kick,, lately this server has shown me for the 2 years I've been here the most disrespectful administrative team on SAMP, I hope Aragorn has a meeting with these admins and get them back in order and back on track!

In your case it's simple: Treat others how you wanted to be treated and not crying to the higher-ups about every single dislike.

*snipped*

I certainly cannot wait till these meetings to hear your philosophy in taking care of this job and which actions should be taken. Though I must say that punishments issued by me have been taken account for by me. In the event of false-accusation, I ALWAYS apologize to the defendant for the mistake made by me in public chat in order to not hurt that person's reputation.

[Mario_Rinna]

To be ready for admins meeting I need to collect all info about admins activity, each of them, reports, logs... As usually, actually... But I have no time to collect all this, and Xcasio is busy as well...

That is why there is no yet admins meeting...

However I was already trying to take admins attention by posting some hints in my signature... Banana for 600 seconds or permbans for farts should be stopped... I was pointing the same on admins chat in game during my short visits... But lack of my activity probably made it useless...

Anyways... Permbans are used in extra cases or cheat... Cheating can be not only using cheats... Also abusing script commands to get advantage... This classified as cheating... Extra cases: constant disrespect/flame/other shit/flood/spam/scam... If player constantly does it, if all what he brings to server - constant negative, moaning, shitting, provoking - he can be easily permbanned... I pointed the CONSTANT word as it is the main in this cases what leads to permban... If guy is new, if guy is just pissed off on some accident - thats hardly a tempban... Banana for 30 seconds is enough...
But some players can be pissed off even with banana for 30 seconds and instead of calming down develope things in a negative direction even more... More longer he will continue shitting about admins and banana in 30 seconds - more chances admin will ban him... 1 hour of ban is enough... If player noticed in constant shit about everything, forums, server, sites or communities of clans or groups - permban is the one thing he will get...
And there is no shit to cry about...

It's a shame your admin team has been doing the opposite for the last 3 years..

[Pandalink]

There will be admins meeting, where the Argonath admining style should be back... Right now its just a punishment group... When admins team supposes to be the helping group...

Excellent, excellent quote.

Glad the absolute root of the issue will be addressed, and sorted for good.

[SugarD]

Excellent, excellent quote.

Glad the absolute root of the issue will be addressed, and sorted for good.

Agreed 100%.

[Ryan C.]

It's not just the admins, it's the players too. Please don't play the blame game unless you have facts to back it up. They aren't the only ones with the attitude problems. Remember, admins are still regular players. They have just been picked to help keep order in the server and help new players out, something every player should be able to do, and should do every day.

Well maybe admins should be trained, because I've seen most of them who can't even be on top of there game!

To be ready for admins meeting I need to collect all info about admins activity, each of them, reports, logs... As usually, actually... But I have no time to collect all this, and Xcasio is busy as well...

That is why there is no yet admins meeting...

However I was already trying to take admins attention by posting some hints in my signature... Banana for 600 seconds or permbans for farts should be stopped... I was pointing the same on admins chat in game during my short visits... But lack of my activity probably made it useless...

Anyways... Permbans are used in extra cases or cheat... Cheating can be not only using cheats... Also abusing script commands to get advantage... This classified as cheating... Extra cases: constant disrespect/flame/other shit/flood/spam/scam... If player constantly does it, if all what he brings to server - constant negative, moaning, shitting, provoking - he can be easily permbanned... I pointed the CONSTANT word as it is the main in this cases what leads to permban... If guy is new, if guy is just pissed off on some accident - thats hardly a tempban... Banana for 30 seconds is enough...
But some players can be pissed off even with banana for 30 seconds and instead of calming down develope things in a negative direction even more... More longer he will continue shitting about admins and banana in 30 seconds - more chances admin will ban him... 1 hour of ban is enough... If player noticed in constant shit about everything, forums, server, sites or communities of clans or groups - permban is the one thing he will get...
And there is no shit to cry about...

Im glad this was stated, these admins just punish, they don't help, If a new player came on and just started to Cop Bait and a admin bans him, would he know any better? No because they don't advice him of anything, that's the shame of the admin team on Argonath RPG Today!

[Kenny.]

As alot of you are saying the problems is not with the admin but the players too however lets separate the two groups and see what their jobs are.

Player: They are here to have fun sometimes yes they get mad flame or do things which are wrong. This is where the admin comes in and keeeps the peace in the server. See the admin job is sort of like profession that is their job. When certain admin is on his main account he should be tolereant, patient and professional.

Alot of the times admins are in challenege to give out punishment to players than actual help out the player into making the right choices. He could spend a little time banana the guy and talk him down rather than out right ban them or kick which will result into more and more anger from the player side. The admin team are supposed to be trained yes they are human but if the admin loose the cool who is supposed to be more mature than the average player what do you think a player will do....

This is why i wonder do the admin even receive some sort of training into how to handle situation, are some of them even experienced or patient? Do they know they should stay professional in their main admin account? I see admin who rather ban the player with reasons ending "explain in unban request" than take few minutes and get to the bottom of the story. This all tough act "any trolling and ban" will just lead to a complex situation and does not solve anything.

If a suspect was on a roof and was about to suicide the negogiater usually talks them down rather than shoot him down. This is excatly what happens alot in the server, some admin love its what they live for to give out punishment - i bet you thats what keeps them coming to the server to make a players life miserable. Now before you start judging me i do not really attempt to get involved with admins, i even avoid roleplaying with admins at all cost because it may lead to me being in trouble. Whenever i receive a punishment like a banana or kick or even tempban i just come back and carry on my business for i have more experience and mature than average players & know arguing will just dig me a hole.

To solve alot of mis behaviour from server admin first need to be trained on how to handle things, first thing is to be calm and collective. A classic example is the parents who always beat their children when they make mistakes, the child will eventually become immune to the beatings and he will never be the same. The same situation applies here, admin awlays outrigh ban players alot of the time they become immune to banning and make unban request after unban request, this eventually leads to a perm ban or even worse. So lets not create monsters in this community!!

[SugarD]

As alot of you are saying the problems is not with the admin but the players too however lets separate the two groups and see what their jobs are.

Player: They are here to have fun sometimes yes they get mad flame or do things which are wrong. This is where the admin comes in and keeeps the peace in the server. See the admin job is sort of like profession that is their job. When certain admin is on his main account he should be tolereant, patient and professional.

Alot of the times admins are in challenege to give out punishment to players than actual help out the player into making the right choices. He could spend a little time banana the guy and talk him down rather than out right ban them or kick which will result into more and more anger from the player side. The admin team are supposed to be trained yes they are human but if the admin loose the cool who is supposed to be more mature than the average player what do you think a player will do....

This is why i wonder do the admin even receive some sort of training into how to handle situation, are some of them even experienced or patient? Do they know they should stay professional in their main admin account? I see admin who rather ban the player with reasons ending "explain in unban request" than take few minutes and get to the bottom of the story. This all tough act "any trolling and ban" will just lead to a complex situation and does not solve anything.

If a suspect was on a roof and was about to suicide the negogiater usually talks them down rather than shoot him down. This is excatly what happens alot in the server, some admin love its what they live for to give out punishment - i bet you thats what keeps them coming to the server to make a players life miserable. Now before you start judging me i do not really attempt to get involved with admins, i even avoid roleplaying with admins at all cost because it may lead to me being in trouble. Whenever i receive a punishment like a banana or kick or even tempban i just come back and carry on my business for i have more experience and mature than average players & know arguing will just dig me a hole.

To solve alot of mis behaviour from server admin first need to be trained on how to handle things, first thing is to be calm and collective. A classic example is the parents who always beat their children when they make mistakes, the child will eventually become immune to the beatings and he will never be the same. The same situation applies here, admin awlays outrigh ban players alot of the time they become immune to banning and make unban request after unban request, this eventually leads to a perm ban or even worse. So lets not create monsters in this community!!

Well that's the thing...admins and players should be no different. Everyone should be professional, calm, and courteous to others regardless if they are an admin or not. Admins are still regular players. They just have special rights granted to them to help keep the peace. They are no different than anyone else.

[Kenny.]

Well that's the thing...admins and players should be no different. Everyone should be professional, calm, and courteous to others regardless if they are an admin or not. Admins are still regular players. They just have special rights granted to them to help keep the peace. They are no different than anyone else.

Something i always found ironic is the admins playing the victim role when they have such power in the server. They say they are doing what seems to be a hard job and its very stressing claiming all sorts of things done to them by the players attitude and behaviour. Their claims include no time for them enjoy playing or roleplaying for that matter.

To be honest a player applies to become part of the admin team, which means they should be trained or well mentally be prepaerd to baby sit younger players than them who will make alot of mistakes. If admin becomes very strees and cannot handle things he is unfit to serve and should resign not stil hold a position of power and tempban players for things like "shut up"....

if you think am just blabbering check the unban request of last 10 pages you will atleast find 10 players banned for almost weeks where a tempban or kick was sufficient enough...i mean am not a judge or anything but whats logic can be seen & does not need a degree in university...

ps: it seems we have detroited away from the topic so lets forget this admin subject & really discuss about the problems with perm ban although perm bans are usually based on how often a player was previously banned. Alot of the time the previous bans were not neccasary and those players could stil be in the community.

[SugarD]

Something i always found ironic is the admins playing the victim role when they have such power in the server. They say they are doing what seems to be a hard job and its very stressing claiming all sorts of things done to them by the players attitude and behaviour. Their claims include no time for them enjoy playing or roleplaying for that matter.

To be honest a player applies to become part of the admin team, which means they should be trained or well mentally be prepaerd to baby sit younger players than them who will make alot of mistakes. If admin becomes very strees and cannot handle things he is unfit to serve and should resign not stil hold a position of power and tempban players for things like "shut up"....

if you think am just blabbering check the unban request of last 10 pages you will atleast find 10 players banned for almost weeks where a tempban or kick was sufficient enough...i mean am not a judge or anything but whats logic can be seen & does not need a degree in oxford.

Yes, admins should be prepared, but it's the entire servers' attitudes that lead to these issues. ALL players should be helpful and courteous...especially those that already know the rules. They should be assisting new players and teaching them how to play here BEFORE the admins should ever have to step in. Admins are a last line of defense, not a first line.

[Aragorn]

Kenny I would like you not to turn topic into "lets wave a shit on admins"...
Like you or not admins have a really difficult work... And you all (players) do not even count them equal... For you all they are slaves who must run on the first fart from your side...

That is not true... And I do not press on admins cos the work they do not everyone can even handle... For example you for sure will not handle it, cos you think its easy and all those admins words about difficulties just a playing victim...

Admin checkes report and if he is not witnessing the rule break he leaves player alone... But that does not mean the reporter will leave admin alone... That asshole can start shitting admins team for doing nothing, for being ignorant for disrespecting players for bad activity, etc...

And that is not ONE moaner... Almost all who want a "death" to nearest player (newbie or veteran) all report to admins and then stalk admin all the time while the ban comes on his own ass or the reported player was witnessed by admin... In some cases this stalking is PERMANENT... Yeah yeah we have such cases also...

So there is no way you all can start shitting about admins work... We have a great team... Just this team needs to set correct limits of actions... Mostly with the new guys...

If the situationwould be THAT BAD as you are trying to describe here admins would be already removed/changed...

I agree with the incorrect timing of bans/bananas/adminjail/etc... But I am not agree with the admins being total idiots power hungry kiddies...

In most cases I notice admins team goes harsh when there is attack on Argonath servers/forums... But that is just dictated by normal wish to protect the server more...

Problem between admin and player 99% cases starts from player...

[SugarD]

Well said RON

[Kenny.]

Ron i am honestly suprised that you will interpret my criticism  into "wave to shit on admins". If am not wrong few post up you said you wanted to re-organise the admin team and make meeting between your members.

What i did was give you feedback as a regular player into what i see on daily basis. when an organisation is under the process of reforming they usual collect feedback from their customers and attempt to tackle those issues mentioned...

Few things i mentioned in my post are actual facts which i can provide refreences to if neccassry. As a leader who is trying to reorganise you out of all should welcome criticism because in my previous post i gave you few issues that could be highlighted in the admin meeting.

At the end of the day you are a leader you can choose to ignore feedback from a mature person who is logical and reasonable and carry on living in the wrold where everything is perfect or you can actually convey my message back to the HQ team and do something about it, not take my words out of context and see it as "shitting on admins". I trust your judgement & respect your outcome.

How would you know "for sure" i cant do admin job, you are just under estimating the players ability, however i believe am mentally prepered for it but i pyhsically do not want to hold such responsbilities. let me wrap it up in simple line - I give you the point of view of a player while you give me the viewpoint of a leader, this is called a dialogue.

[SugarD]

Ron i am honestly suprised that you will interpret my criticism  into "wave to shit on admins". If am not wrong few post up you said you wanted to re-organise the admin team and make meeting between your members.

What i did was give you feedback as a regular player into what i see on daily basis. when an organisation is under the process of reforming they usual collect feedback from their customers and attempt to tackle those issues mentioned...

Few things i mentioned in my post are actual facts which i can provide refreences to if neccassry. As a leader who is trying to reorganise you out of all should welcome criticism because in my previous post i gave you few issues that could be highlighted in the admin meeting.

At the end of the day you are a leader you can choose to ignore feedback from a mature person who is logical and reasonable and carry on living in the wrold where everything is perfect or you can actually convey my message back to the HQ team and do something about it, not take my words out of context and see it as "shitting on admins". I trust your judgement & respect your outcome.

How would you know "for sure" i cant do admin job, you are just under estimating the players ability, however i believe am mentally prepered for it but i pyhsically do not want to hold such responsbilities. let me wrap it up in simple line - I give you the point of view of a player while you give me the viewpoint of a leader, this is called a dialogue.

Everything you just said basically stated you are saying RON/Aragorn is wRONg. I'm sorry, but until you are a Server Owner yourself, it's not really your decision to state who is and isn't capable of what and why. This is a friendly discussion regarding the topic at hand, not something to point blame at specific people. That's fine if you have references, but that is not really important. If the current admins do something wrong, they are going to get caught when the new wave/system is implemented. There's no reason to point fingers and accuse anyone.