Glitches : what we (do not) allow and why.

[Gandalf]

First of all lets check if we use the definition of a glitch:

A glitch is a non-documented feature that allows behaviour which is not intended by the creators and is not caused by the script.

Glitches are fun, as they show things of how the game was created, and are often caused because GTA:VC is by nature a single-player game, which has a different level of integrity needed as a multiplayer where players will explore the world longer and more thorough.
There for to hunt for glitches and show them off is something that over time always has had a lot of followers.

However there is another use for glitches, and that is to use them in order to obtain advantage over others. Especially in combat situations many people try to take shortcuts in order to win a fight.
Our vision is that fighting should be based on skills only, and using glitches for your advantage is equal to using cheats. Players who enjoy using them will say that others can use the same glitches as well and there for it should be allowed. Apart from that others can install cheats as well, this does not make their argument valid. By using a glitch during a fight, the other players lose the ability to fight based on skills, and have to rely on the same glitches, which takes away the meaning of fighting.

Look at it this way: if two swordsmen fight each other with their sword, the one with the best skills will win. However if the one with lesser skills can use a shield, the chances of the better fighter will diminish. By adding more protection, it eventually becomes a game of chance instead of skill, and only the lucky and those who know all weak spots will be able to get victory.

A similar thing is to use glitches in order not to be found ot to get away. Using teleports to escape from pursuers or a glitch that puts one in a place where they can not be followed or hurt is also equal to using cheats.

Using these glitches for fun or in special circumstances is not a problem at all.
Using them to 'win' make you a loser, lamer and cheater.
Using glitches in combat on Argonath server was, is and will remain off-limits, our players should fight with honour and not by lowering their standards to those of servers where winning is more important as having fun.

[Kessu]

So then, I'd like to give my opinion on this one:

Crouching behind vehicles and shoot through the car. Disallowed.
Stand/Crouch behind wall and shoot from there. Disallowed.
Fast-switch, crouch glitch, rocket launcher glitch, basically all combat glitches. Disallowed.
Sniping behind anything higher of your abdomen. DISALLOWED.

Is that what you want to do to server? All of those give you the same advantage over others, but yet, everyone uses them in VCMP. I mean, EVERYONE.

Yet, referring to topic that now is locked, you could've shot Marcell from where he was shooting, because you CAN shoot through walls same as he could shoot you from there, you just need to aim high enough to hit the head. Not so hard from my opinion.

So, you basically disallow tactical position and stragetical moves which of ARPD / small gangs/clans/groups lack, unlike DC and EAF.

Discuss in polite manner please.

[Klaus]

[muzdaaz]

Comparing glitching with using cheats is wrong. Cheating is manipulating games variables via f**king with client files or using 3rd party proggy. Glitching however is just using various gameplay features that are already in game. I see no harm it makes, as if player actually plays VCMP, he will learn practically all of them in very short time. Skilled men improve and learn new techniques, thats how simple it is.

[ferrari32]

This thing needs further discussion. Glitches are part of the game, same like cars, buildings and bikes. Therefore they shouldn't be forbidden.

[Call_me_Dad]

Disabling fastswitch and jumpswitch through scripts could take out 80% of combat glitches.
But I personally wont enjoy that

This will surely have a much bigger impact on combat.

Some glitches are so common, that they have been renamed as "techniques".
Example: Jumping/Crouching after each shot to skip the Post-Shot delay.

Without such glitches, players will eventually stop using the most popular weapon: Stubby.
So, the server will be full of spazzers....That will seriously affect the player count of the server

[XDie]

 :wow: :hit: i just found a new glitch, then the glitches becomes forbidden

[Marcus]

R1's back.
No, srsly. I don't think this will be a benefit to the server. Glitches are part of the game, maybe unfortunately, maybe fortunately, but it's the cold truth.
The only glitch I allowed as a VC:MP admin was the one aXXo mentioned. I mean, every skilled / dedicaded player would learn how to do that crouch - shoot "technique". With practice, the swordmen, if skilled and dedicaded, can take up his opponent, no matter wether he's wearing a gold suit or he's superman. Every player who dedicated most of his time playing VC:MP would know it from seeing other people's gameplay. People who don't have a taste of something, can't give an opinion. (Hope you get the idea, nothing pretended to be offensive)
I think the only glitch(es) to be limited, so to speak, should be the so called "wallglitching", and some minor ones that can really affect your combat experience (such as the animation related glitch, and the screenshot thingy). These, can, and will give you advantage over your opponent, and turn yourself into a lamer.

[Willy]

lol, not using crouch shooting 'technique' is called non-skilled member in vcmp...
wall glitching will be removed in vcmp 0.4 ... So, I don't think their should be any major fuss about it...

I don't know what happened lol?? Everyone was using them from 2008 - 2011... Srsly, its another way to bring EAF down...
Even ARPD used it hiding behind the cars and shooting colts... Seen it numerous times... No one kicked them from server because of it... Another poor debate imo...

VCMP is just not vcmp without crouch shooting and other these stuffs...

PS: Don't go shouting over me, I am not provoking ANYONE...

[Marcus]

lol, not using crouch shooting 'technique' is called non-skilled member in vcmp...
wall glitching will be removed in vcmp 0.4 ... So, I don't think their should be any major fuss about it...

I don't know what happened lol?? Everyone was using them from 2008 - 2011... Srsly, its another way to bring EAF down...
Even ARPD used it hiding behind the cars and shooting colts... Seen it numerous times... No one kicked them from server because of it... Another poor debate imo...

VCMP is just not vcmp without crouch shooting and other these stuffs...

PS: Don't go shouting over me, I am not provoking ANYONE...

This has nothing to do with EAF / ARPD, Willy.. Camon..

[Gandalf]

Then I guess its the end of the server.

[stormeus]

This has been an Argonath rule dating back to MTA:VC. However, it hasn't been until recently that more attention has been brought to the issue. It is possible to play the game without using glitches. As Ronnel said, you should not be using them to "win." As a roleplay server, Argonath isn't win/lose. It's about having fun through imagination and roleplay.

One example of a glitch that should be strictly disallowed is being able to snipe through an interior (as in, one player inside the bank can kill you when you're outside, and vice versa). Sure, anyone can use it. What happens if the player doesn't have a sniper? You clearly have an advantage over them. When you're inside the bank, you can see them through the windows. They can't see you.

EDIT: Then again, no glitches are allowed anyways.

So, you basically disallow tactical position and stragetical moves which of ARPD / small gangs/clans/groups lack, unlike DC and EAF.

I suppose it's time for DC and EAF to learn new strategies then.

[Gandalf]

Crouching behind vehicles and shoot through the car. Disallowed.

Correct. Vehicles should be solid.

Stand/Crouch behind wall and shoot from there. Disallowed.

Correct. While on the map one may be visible, it hides your location and there for aim.

Fast-switch, crouch glitch, rocket launcher glitch, basically all combat glitches. Disallowed.

Fast-switch can be discussed, as it is common on all GTA games.

Sniping behind anything higher of your abdomen. DISALLOWED.

If you are shooting through instead of over things it is disallowed.

Is that what you want to do to server? All of those give you the same advantage over others, but yet, everyone uses them in VCMP. I mean, EVERYONE.

Yet, referring to topic that now is locked, you could've shot Marcell from where he was shooting, because you CAN shoot through walls same as he could shoot you from there, you just need to aim high enough to hit the head. Not so hard from my opinion.

So, you basically disallow tactical position and stragetical moves which of ARPD / small gangs/clans/groups lack, unlike DC and EAF.

Discuss in polite manner please.

Its not our fault that the leaders have chosen to stray from the standard rules and allow these.

[XDie]

Correct. Vehicles should be solid.
Correct. While on the map one may be visible, it hides your location and there for aim.
Fast-switch can be discussed, as it is common on all GTA games.
If you are shooting through instead of over things it is disallowed.Its not our fault that the leaders have chosen to stray from the standard rules and allow these.

What you said is right and i agree with you!

[Morphine]

Limit fighting to fast-switching; that's what I suggested to you in the PM conversation, Gandalf, in case you have to enforce a no-glitch rule.