/c bribe

[stormeus]

I have to agree with JDC here. Perhaps on a relatively small server this is not a problem, but the working of the bribe command invites people to abuse it.

I take it that this is a request for removal.

[JDC]

I have to agree with JDC here. Perhaps on a relatively small server this is not a problem, but the working of the bribe command invites people to abuse it.
Example: two players are as criminals, one gest suspected and surrenders. His friend goes on cop duty and bribes him to be free, they continue their rampage.
Remember that we are to remain within the realm of roleplay, and a cop bribing a suspect who is held by a colleague in plain sight is not within this realm.

I remember as well that this was the reason why /confess was removed from SA:MP. For those who do not know, /confess was basically SA:MP version of /c bribe, except you replaced the bribing cop with a church.

One scenario being suspects who killed a dozen cops, lead their pursuers around the state, only to go to a cathedral and confess to free him of his suspection so that the army of law enforcers outside cannot get him. The outcome of bribes on VC:MP are basically a mirror of that situation.

Turnstile justice at its best.

[SugarD]

I remember as well that this was the reason why /confess was removed from SA:MP. For those who do not know, /confess was basically SA:MP version of /c bribe, except you replaced the bribing cop with a church.

One scenario being suspects who killed a dozen cops, lead their pursuers around the state, only to go to a cathedral and confess to free him of his suspection so that the army of law enforcers outside cannot get him. The outcome of bribes on VC:MP are basically a mirror of that situation.

Turnstile justice at its best.

Bribing could easily be roleplayed in those cases, which would avoid the scripted abuse issues. As for /confess, that actually came from MTA:VC in another form, although as to why it was made for suspects and not cops is beyond me.

It almost seems like someone took the MTA:VC command, made it for suspects instead of cops, and tried to link Sauronism into the scripted part of the criminal roleplays.

[Huntsman]

I have to agree with JDC here. Perhaps on a relatively small server this is not a problem, but the working of the bribe command invites people to abuse it.
Example: two players are as criminals, one gest suspected and surrenders. His friend goes on cop duty and bribes him to be free, they continue their rampage.
Remember that we are to remain within the realm of roleplay, and a cop bribing a suspect who is held by a colleague in plain sight is not within this realm.

Even if it's abusable, i never saw anyone abusing at that point.

But in that case, what about not being able to /c bribe if there is another cop within a certain radius? If there is another cop near-by when a cop accepts the bribe, he either gets auto-suspected for taking bribes or he becomes suspectable for other cops?

[Gandalf]

You should re-read the rules.

It's a shame that the trust in players and vcmp administration is as low as it is.

Experience shows that if a command can be abused, it will be.

As fas as /confess is concerned, it was removed because cops started camping in front of every church for an easy kill.

[Ave]

Bribe command hasn't been abused, and its usage is rare.
Does it encourage players to ruin roleplay? Only in some sense. Policeman can always deny the bribe offer.

[JDC]

You should re-read the rules.

It's a shame that the trust in players and vcmp administration is as low as it is.

Low trust is earned through low performance, if you studied your recent VC:MP history. Admins are not removed or punished without reason, let alone the server put under threat of closure.

And yes, I do know what the rules say and mean.

As fas as /confess is concerned, it was removed because cops started camping in front of every church for an easy kill.

Also, at the time, the escape system based on distance from cops was not developed yet.


The bottom line here is abuse... it already has happened with this command and will continue to do so, so do not falsely claim that it has not yet, as it would be like moving /c kick down for everyone and claiming that it is never abused.

Experience shows that if a command can be abused, it will be.

[Gandalf]

Bribe command hasn't been abused, and its usage is rare.
Does it encourage players to ruin roleplay? Only in some sense. Policeman can always deny the bribe offer.

Not in the case I stated above, which I know has happened from reports to the mail.

[~Legend~]

I'm not 'pro-bribe', or 'anti-bribe', but more concerned about VC:MP Admin Team brought into question, and just the general workload for Scripters, or how rules may have to be adopted when perhaps not necessary.

As far as I'm aware, there has only been one "known" case of possible "abuse" with the command in recent months - I may be wrong - but it hasn't been something deeply worried about in the server in past times.

Other than the so called abuse, I think it's just a mark of poor roleplay if you use a command severely to destroy a roleplay situation in an absurd way as in examples mentioned already.
As a head of the VCPD, I wouldn't expect any of its members to even consider accepting a bribe, and we have had very few concerns about it.

To get around possible difficulties posted here, I would just have to go back on the following:

If there are large concerns towards the script, rather than create/re-create rules we could always (if feasible) think about adding just little controls like you can't be above a certain heat - though then /c bribe would seem almost without any benefits for highly wanted criminals, but then again it's harder to make their cimes disappear - or make it so it can't be done with 3/4 + cops nearby; can't just walk away after being in a major chase or terrorist attack where the police had you in their vision.

Linked to the above example, you could argue that (the other) cops have all the right to re-suspect someone. As the whole thing is illegal, a top-class corrupt (or just a very smooth officer who wants an early bonus; or someone just playing with the criminal/working cleverly) could just suspect the person again after accepting the bribe, in the name of roleplay?

[Ave]

Not in the case I stated above, which I know has happened from reports to the mail.

Such abusers are getting caught and punished sooner or later.
This would have been a rare usage of this command, which is not often used itself.

I'm fine with the removal of bribe since it's a minor change.

[stormeus]

/c bribe will be removed.

Would it be okay to replace it with VCPD command staff being able to unsuspect and copban though?

[SugarD]

Such abusers are getting caught and punished sooner or later.

We shouldn't invite them to do it, though.

I'm fine with the removal of bribe since it's a minor change.

Same here. It's unfortunate, but it would be nice to see it be a roleplayed option instead, assuming officers can unsuspect for it in roleplay purposes.

/c bribe will be removed.

Would it be okay to replace it with VCPD command staff being able to unsuspect and copban though?

I'm surprised they can't already... o.0

[Marcell]

now the most annoying thing will be if there's like 5 arpd officers online and you're wanted (no vcpd guys on), there will be no ways to bribe them since there's no unsus for them, just like on samp...now someone will show up saying 'use ur common sense pay them and tell them to leave you alone so you lose wanted level!11' but that's not the same thing as losing wanted level itself really

[SugarD]

now the most annoying thing will be if there's like 5 arpd officers online and you're wanted (no vcpd guys on), there will be no ways to bribe them since there's no unsus for them, just like on samp...now someone will show up saying 'use ur common sense pay them and tell them to leave you alone so you lose wanted level!11' but that's not the same thing as losing wanted level itself really

Are you able to escape in VC:MP like in SA:MP, or is it still using the older system where you stay wanted until caught/killed?

If the former, it may be tougher...but you could pay off multiple cops in a RP'ed bribe to resolve that until you escape, according to the scripts.

If the latter, I guess it would take quite a bit of RP'ed organization and agreements with all players to pull it off.

[Gandalf]

now the most annoying thing will be if there's like 5 arpd officers online and you're wanted (no vcpd guys on), there will be no ways to bribe them since there's no unsus for them, just like on samp...now someone will show up saying 'use ur common sense pay them and tell them to leave you alone so you lose wanted level!11' but that's not the same thing as losing wanted level itself really

Go to jail.