Police officer shot dead in street

[[SE]Dr_Pepper27]

USA made a huge mistake. Giving out guns so easily. Police officers in USA wear their gun always, which means criminals also will use guns.

Violent crimes are higher in the UK than in the USA, you know?

More guns = less crime because everyone knows everyone's packing heat. This is an actual proven fact. 

[Gandalf]

Violent crimes are higher in the UK than in the USA, you know?

More guns = less crime because everyone knows everyone's packing heat. This is an actual proven fact. 

Show the proof.

[SafetyMoose]

Show the proof.

I can't give you any written statistics, but from experience and discussion with cops who work the street, If a person is known to own a gun (Up here for hunting) and they live in a high crime area, they are victims of home related crimes much less frequently. Now, this does not mean the crime rate is any lower, since it just means criminals avoid homes where the owner is known to have a weapon. But it does prevent the individual with the gun from being the victim. This is known also from criminal testimonies. Now, the crime that is prevented is usually break and enters and burglary and owners of guns are not known to have any lower rate of violent crime / domestic calls although these are very un-common to begin with.

[[SE]Dr_Pepper27]

Show the proof.

http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1818862/posts
Many many more guns are used for crime and not for illegal activities.

For those anti-gun, read this and perhaps it will show you they ain't to bad.

http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm

For proof of the UK violent crime / gun crime.

"* Gun-free England not such a utopia after all. According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.18 And according to a United Nations study, British citizens are more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States. The 2000 report shows that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.19"


(source: http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm)

[Gandalf]

None of that is proof, all are biased texts from gun-happy organisations.
You can not provide statistics, because if you would compare them they would be very against your statements. Just as Safetymoose showed the number of gun deaths in the US is 10x as high as in Norway, even corrected for population. And that in the year Breivik shot 69 people....

[[SE]Dr_Pepper27]

None of that is proof, all are biased texts from gun-happy organisations.
You can not provide statistics, because if you would compare them they would be very against your statements. Just as Safetymoose showed the number of gun deaths in the US is 10x as high as in Norway, even corrected for population. And that in the year Breivik shot 69 people....

Google Kennesaw, Georgia and you'll find that the town did in fact place a law saying every head of the household needs to own a gun and ammo. Crimes DID drop in that town and they crime rate is still low today.

Simply because we have idiot ''gangsters'' who think they're cool. Guns are used 80 times more for self defense then crime. (2004)

[Gandalf]

Google Kennesaw, Georgia and you'll find that the town did in fact place a law saying every head of the household needs to own a gun and ammo. Crimes DID drop in that town and they crime rate is still low today.

Simply because we have idiot ''gangsters'' who think they're cool. Guns are used 80 times more for self defense then crime. (2004)

I am askig you to show comparative statistics between the USA and Europe where there are strict gun laws, not some inbred town of 5 cows and a horse.

[[SE]Dr_Pepper27]

not some inbred town of 5 cows and a horse.

Go to Kennesaw and tell them that. 

I am askig you to show comparative statistics between the USA and Europe where there are strict gun laws, not some inbred town of 5 cows and a horse.

You may have seen comparisons of some European country's homicide figures vs those in the USA .

These comparisons are used by some to suggest we would be much safer were we to give up our second amendment right to firearm ownership, thus only governments would have guns, as in most countrys in Europe.


Murder Rate Europe vs. United States

There were 15,533 murders in the US in 1999.
At his rate, it would take The USA well over 1797 years to equal only the number of
government perpetrated murders in Western Europe in the 20th Century. Homicides by individuals in Europe not included.
If you throw in Eastern Europe, it would take well over 5829 of our murderous years to equal what
happened in 100 years of European "living".

There is an amazing corrolation between gun control and genocide. Interesting eh?

Genocides of less than one million victims are NOT included in these figures. Europe had many genocides of less than one million during the twentieth century. Soldiers killed in wars are NOT included in these figures. Europe has suffered much war during the twentieth century.

Some various twentieth century genocides of Europe, East and West.

The Armenian Genocide (1890 - 1923). The Assyrian Genocide (1910 - 1923). The Hellenes [Greeks] of Thrace, Asia Minor and Pontus Genocide (1915 - 1925). The Ukrainian Forced-Famine (Great Famine) (1932 - 1933). The Jewish Holocaust (1933 - 1945). The Roma or Gypsy Genocide (1933 - 1945). The Jehovah's Witnesses Genocide in Nazi Germany (1933 - 1945). Homosexual Genocide in Nazi Germany (1933 - 1945). Yugoslavs (Primarily of Serbs, but also Romany [Gypsies] and Jews, by Croatians) Nazi-Occupied Europe (1938 - 1945). Yugoslavs (Primarily of Serbs by Albanians in Southern Serbia and Kosovo)Nazi-Occupied Europe (1938 - 1945).Russians, Ukrainians, Jews and Other Residents of the USSR.Nazi-Occupied Europe (1938 - 1945). Poles (by German or Ukrainian Insurgents)Nazi-Occupied Europe (1938 - 1945). Victims of Genocide or Genocide-Like Activities in Soviet-Occupied Europe and in the USSR (1939 - 1991). Ukrainians.Soviet-Occupied Europe and in the USSR (1939 - 1991). Meskhetian Turks. Soviet-Occupied Europe and in the USSR (1939 - 1991). Crimean Tatars.Soviet-Occupied Europe and in the USSR (1939 - 1991). Baltic Peoples (Estonians, Latvians, and lithuanians).Soviet-Occupied Europe and in the USSR (1939 - 1991). Volga Germans.Soviet-Occupied Europe and in the USSR (1939 - 1991). Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh, Nakhichevan, and Azerbaijan by Azeris, and Azeris in Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia by Armenians [ca. 1900-2001 AD - These Ethnic Cleansings predated, were concurrent with, and postdated these people's and republics' membership in the USSR] Other peoples, including Kalmyks, Chechens, Ingush, Balkars, and Karachai.Soviet-Occupied Europe and in the USSR (1939 - 1991). Victims of Other Genocides (Includes "Ethnic Cleansing"). Turks or Other Muslims from Newly Independent Countries Formerly Part of the Ottoman Empire.(PostWWI) Germans in Poland, East Prussia, and Czechoslovakia (Sudetenland).(PostWWII)Hungarians in Transcarpathia.(1890 - 2000) Karelians and Finns from Former Finnish Karelia.(1890 - 2000) Italians and Others by Titoists in Trieste, Istria, Dalmatia (1945-194?) Bosnian-Muslims, Serbs, and Croats in Bosnia (and adjacent areas of Croatia and Serbia) [Serbs against Bosnian-Muslims and Croats; Croats against Serbs and Bosnian-Muslims; and Bosnian-Muslims against Serbs and Croats]. (1890 - 2000) Albanians in Kosovo by Serbs.(1890 - 2000) Serbs and Roma in Kosovo by Albanians(1890 - 2000) Chechens in the Chechen Republic of the Russian Federation.(Now) Georgians in the Abkhazian Republic of Georgia(1890 - 2000) Abhazians in Georgia.(1890 - 2000)


http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm#Total

http://www.unaids.org/highband/document/epidemio/june98/index.html

http://www.lib.vt.edu/subjects/slav/genocide.html

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/dbg.chap2.

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/20th.htm

http://www.jpfo.org/genocide.htm

http://i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/lethal.htm#fn159

Not sure if that's what you're asking for or not.


Side note, most crimes are committed with illegal weapons, so tougher gun laws will have very little effect and will only raise crime. It is up to law abiding citizens who have legal guns to do their part and stop crime like that.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/06/10/john-lott-america-gun-ban-murders-multiple-victim-public-shootings-europe/

[SafetyMoose]

I am askig you to show comparative statistics between the USA and Europe where there are strict gun laws, not some inbred town of 5 cows and a horse.

wow man, no need for the insults. I'm sure if I had said something similar I would have been forum warned again, lead by example man. Just because some of us own guns does not suddenly make us inbred rednecks.....   

[Mikal]

Thats what happens when you don't give cops guns in a world where guns are so easy to access.

Guns are near impossible to get in the UK (and parts of Ireland) without being part of an organised gang, thats one of the reasons police over here don't carry guns, another thing, a couple of years ago police were actually asked if they wanted guns, %80 of them said no because they wanted to maintain their classic British police appeal (Bobby appeal), when armed police are needed, fully trained ones turn up, not just every trigger happy moron like some of those you see in the US. :redface:

Like someones already said, every moron in America can get a gun by simply clicking their fingers..

[SafetyMoose]

Guns are near impossible to get in the UK (and parts of Ireland) without being part of an organised gang, thats one of the reasons police over here don't carry guns, another thing, a couple of years ago police were actually asked if they wanted guns, %80 of them said no because they wanted to maintain their classic British police appeal (Bobby appeal), when armed police are needed, fully trained ones turn up, not just every trigger happy moron like some of those you see in the US. :redface:

Like someones already said, every moron in America can get a gun by simply clicking their fingers..

Its a lot easier to get guns in the UK then you say it is. You don't need to be in a gang to get a gun. trust me, Here in Canada we have just as strict gun laws as you do and we know how easy it is for a person to get an illegal weapon.

[Gandalf]

wow man, no need for the insults. I'm sure if I had said something similar I would have been forum warned again, lead by example man. Just because some of us own guns does not suddenly make us inbred rednecks.....   

I was referring to the town, not to the person. You want to state that that town in Georgia is anything more?

[SafetyMoose]

I was referring to the town, not to the person. You want to state that that town in Georgia is anything more?

So its now OK to insult people based on where they live? Cool, thanks for the heads up.

[Gandalf]

You may have seen comparisons of some European country's homicide figures vs those in the USA .

So its clear that you have to resort to very strange methods to defend. Perhaps we will count every death the US army has caused in your camp? That would certainly change the numbers.....

Guns were useful when the law was written. But times change and now they have become a burden.
Europe in general (yes including Eastern) has understood this and changed the laws accordingly.
USA is still stuck in laws that were outdated 60 years ago, because people seem to think their gun is as important as that other part that shoots something, and consider it equal.

[Gandalf]

So its now OK to insult people based on where they live? Cool, thanks for the heads up.

I gave a proper description of the town, been there.