Empire State Building shooting

[Gandalf]

That could also be argued, because if everyone is carrying a weapon, not only are people less likely to shoot each other knowing the other person is "packing", but if it's a common knowledge in the area to operate the weapon, people are less likely to go on rampages with them, understanding how they work.

According to your logic every passenger in a plane should carry a bomb, as that will reduce the likelyhood of a terorrist using one.

[Mikal]

According to your logic every passenger in a plane should carry a bomb, as that will reduce the likelyhood of a terorrist using one.

This is America's logic on guns..

[[SE]Dr_Pepper27]

According to your logic every passenger in a plane should carry a bomb, as that will reduce the likelyhood of a terorrist using one.

Unlike idiot terrorists, robbers do not want to die. I'll be honest, I'm not sure how to respond to this stupidity.

This is America's logic on guns..

I suppose you live in America and know exactly what it's like here? Or do you just follow what the media perceives America as?

[Gandalf]

Unlike idiot terrorists, robbers do not want to die. I'll be honest, I'm not sure how to respond to this stupidity.
I suppose you live in America and know exactly what it's like here? Or do you just follow what the media perceives America as?

I have been there enough to know a large number of good people is disturbed by a small amount of idiots. Mostly its the latter who promote guns.

[[SE]Dr_Pepper27]

I have been there enough to know a large number of good people is disturbed by a small amount of idiots. Mostly its the latter who promote guns.

What places did you go in the US?

[SugarD]

According to your logic every passenger in a plane should carry a bomb, as that will reduce the likelyhood of a terorrist using one.

Not necessarily. Bombs create massive explosions that take out anything nearby with usually no intended target, but instead to cause incredible damage to everything nearby.

Guns aren't always meant for that purpose. If someone knows how to use them correctly and they practice safe usage of them, it can become a great tool in self-defense. Many Police Officers in various countries are an example of this. There are also numerous law-abiding citizens in gun clubs worldwide that don't go out and shoot at other people.

[Gandalf]

What places did you go in the US?

Atlanta, NY,NJ,DC

[SugarD]

Atlanta, NY,NJ,DC

Come to California!

[Gandalf]

Not necessarily. Bombs create massive explosions that take out anything nearby with usually no intended target, but instead to cause incredible damage to everything nearby.

Guns aren't always meant for that purpose. If someone knows how to use them correctly and they practice safe usage of them, it can become a great tool in self-defense. Many Police Officers in various countries are an example of this. There are also numerous law-abiding citizens in gun clubs worldwide that don't go out and shoot at other people.

It can be, however that is not the point. The point is that the laws allow everyone, including those who are not having knowledge of correct usage or practive regularly, to have one.
I am not at all against weapons, if the holder is duly trained, does regular practice and takes enough safety measures to avoid people accidentally getting access to them.
However I am against the idea that if every idiot can hold a gun, the amount of shootings and crime will go down. Even if a number of people will hold a gun when it is illegal, those who are not criminals but believe they need the feeling of safety will still take care not to get caugh, and there for use it with more thought as it will inevitably lead to them having to explain something to the police.
You can feel safe carrying a gun. But how safe do you feel when you realise that everyone else you meet could carry one as well, including guys that you will have to give bad news ?

[Gandalf]

Come to California!

Get me a job there and I move.  :razz:

[SugarD]

Get me a job there and I move.  :razz:

Gotta get me one first! Unemployment is horrible here.

[Dark/Light]

Come to California!

One day, one day... I love it there.

Not too sure what I feel about gun laws (or lack of them). I prefer things the way they are here in the UK, but if the law allowed us to, I would probably buy one.

Whenever I go to Vegas, I go to the gun shop to try some out. Guns are fun, but unfortunately it's the idiots who get hold of them that is the problem... Something that wouldn't be fixed if gun ownership became illegal (if they want one, they will get one).

[SugarD]

Ironically towards my opinion about the gun laws, California, which is the state I live in, has the strictest laws in the country...and yet it has one of the highest rates of gun-related crime in the country too. I'd still rather own one to protect myself, and to use for recreational purposes, but that's a whole 'nother subject.

I am not at all against weapons, if the holder is duly trained, does regular practice and takes enough safety measures to avoid people accidentally getting access to them.

I think that's where we were confusing each other in this little debate. I'm in agreeance with you there. It's still possible to pull off in such a way where everyone can be educated and still legally carry, but the problem is the current laws are just a method of control more than anything else, so it makes such very difficult here.

[Gandalf]

Guns are fun, but unfortunately it's the idiots who get hold of them that is the problem... Something that wouldn't be fixed if gun ownership became illegal (if they want one, they will get one).

Regardless of gun laws, if you want one you can get one. But that does not mean that removing the barrier to get one will not affect the usage.

Ironically towards my opinion about the gun laws, California, which is the state I live in, has the strictest laws in the country...and yet it has one of the highest rates of gun-related crime in the country too. I'd still rather own one to protect myself, and to use for recreational purposes, but that's a whole 'nother subject.
I think that's where we were confusing each other in this little debate. I'm in agreeance with you there. It's still possible to pull off in such a way where everyone can be educated and still legally carry, but the problem is the current laws are just a method of control more than anything else, so it makes such very difficult here.

But do not forget that even the strictest laws in the USA can not pass the rights people have been given by the Constitution. Wich means that a restriction as in Europe is not possible without changing some very basic rights, and it iwll be extremely hard to do so.
In most European countries, holding a gun is linked to obtaining a permit. One can obtain a permit for recreational purposes or for hunting (lots of hunting clubs in Moscow ) and this is linked to a psychological and practical test of the weapon and its future owner.
Even then its at times not enough to stop people from creating similar shooting incidents, or from people getting one illegally. However a factor 10 regarding incidents should prove something here....

[SugarD]

Well, unfortunately in California, they basically made it so people have no want to own a weapon unless they plan on committing a crime or being a cop, which at that point, you see where the crime statistics play a role. Some of the restrictions are absolutely ridiculous too. Things like handguns you must be over 21 to purchase, but you can buy shotguns and rifles at 16 or younger...and I don't mean the hunting varieties either.

Personally it just seems like my state is trying to do everything they can to get rid of all guns period...like that'd ever happen.