unenforced?

[TheLegitHabibi]

Hi.
As we know there is a constant argument that Aegonath is not a RL RP served and due to which many ideas are not accepted. I completely agree with that. However the roleplay we currently have, needs some restrictions and enforcent.

Mostly people complain about the roleplay dying here. Well, its not true, but to some extent we are deviating from it.

I want to discuss the possible pros and coins on restricting the roleplay.
What I mean is, it should be made sure that people rain within the decent limits of roleplay or get punished via admins.

I'm writing this due to a recent situation.
I saw a guy inside a casino gambling. There was some situation and the dealer aimed a gun at me.
I called 911 and cops arrived and he started coming me about how he's here to gamble and not Roleplay.

As far as I know, you're supposed to roleplay with everyone you encounter in game, if you can't, you should /q.

Furthermore these "events" hosted destroy the roleplay. I'm specifically talking about Kill The Guy events. I used to host them, but after talking with Pancher I found out how wrong these events can be. Not only cops interrupt in them, thinking its roleplay, new players get the idea of Deming and are misled.
Yet after my events were canceled I saw those events being hosted again. They shouldn't be.

Furthermore the non-roleplay by people. It is completely common to see plane landings at City Hall, bike stunting, car clippings, and 2 friends punching each other. This has to stop. Often it is seen that even 2 Adkins are having fun by punching each other.which I believe also misleads new players thinking that they can just punch each other.
I believe that we are slowly shifting to a free roam type of server instead of roleplay.

Again these are my beliefs and I want to discuss them. I may be right, I may be wrong.
Post Merge: March 01, 2013, 01:19:30 pmI just re read that. There are quite a few mistakes due to autocorrwction as I typed this from my phone.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Please discuss.

[Gregersen]

Roleplaying cannot be refused, but can not be forced either.

[Devin]

Basically wanting the entirety of the system turned in another direction.

[Pingster]

While us, forum roamers, know the difference, regular Joe who just logs on doesn't. Once you tell them roleplay can't be refuse, they yell about us forcing them to roleplay.

However, as to the point that we're shifting to freeroam... well, I always thought that's what makes Argonath a world of it's own, unique. Freedom, being able to roleplay and not roleplay at the same time, if you know what I mean.

[Thom]

Don't know what to say actually. You are from one side right and from another not. I belive the same,when i was back in my first days in 2011 i remember the loads of people doing big rp events,rolling out with ballas. Also many say that new players should have a cop training. I disagree,as from their mistakes they will learn the right thing. The matter is not to get to the time that they have to make that "mistake" I don't fully agree with James but a little i do. Situation is going to be out of limits. When a player register,CLEAR all the things that are contained. "What's your point in Argonath" "What RP Is" "Rules" (Let's clear that it's not excuse *He's new* We should clear from the start the rules and with further commands that will be shown. Like "As you have read all those do you agree with our Rules?" "Yes" "No" if the player says "Yes" a small list will show "/helpscam" "/helpmoney"  /helpscam like : In Argonath RPG You can gamble,trade illegal stuff. The transfer of stuff isn't always succesful. There are people that scam you. Scam? Scam is when they don't complete the transfer. Like giving your money to gamble,you win and the dealer don't give you the money. In this case,you should take ss * etc. etc. etc. Can you understand what i say?

[TiMoN]

I kinda agree with this, I am sick of people refusing to roleplay anything.

[Salmonella]

Roleplaying cannot be refused, but can not be forced either.

Yeah, that's an obvious contradiction and something should be done about it. You can't tell people not to force roleplay, and at the same time not to refuse roleplay, it's just the complete opposite. One of the two must be dropped, and for the sake of roleplay, dropping the 'you can't refuse roleplay' would be the right choice.

I'm writing this due to a recent situation.
I saw a guy inside a casino gambling. There was some situation and the dealer aimed a gun at me.
I called 911 and cops arrived and he started coming me about how he's here to gamble and not Roleplay.

As far as I know, you're supposed to roleplay with everyone you encounter in game, if you can't, you should /q.

And as far as I know, gambling is roleplaying in a roleplay server. I can definitely imagine the frustration, and I personally don't like seeing this happen ingame either, but even although he's misinformed about what gambling is, he currently has the right to act like this and not go along with the roleplay scenario you tried to start. This can seen as a bad thing, but there's also good sides to it. For one, although in this particular case it doesn't seem so good, this is freedom. Freedom to refuse to roleplay with people when you just don't want to, no questions asked, complete freedom. This freedom also allows everyone to roleplay whatever they want, taking their limit to their creativity, doing everything they want in ArgonathRPG, as long as it's within the boundaries of the rules.

I don't believe you can make hundreds of restrictions and have partial freedom. It's either all in, or all gone. I actually can't imagine what Argonath would be like with the restrictions you're proposing we should add. I don't think they would necessarily be bad, I just think it would change the concept of the server we play in.

Furthermore these "events" hosted destroy the roleplay. I'm specifically talking about Kill The Guy events. I used to host them, but after talking with Pancher I found out how wrong these events can be. Not only cops interrupt in them, thinking its roleplay, new players get the idea of Deming and are misled. Yet after my events were canceled I saw those events being hosted again. They shouldn't be.

This is nothing new. Xcasio often (used to) host(s) events involving a hunt for a person, like 'Kill the Mexican', and I do understand your concern. I also remember an admin which I won't name here, hosting an event called 'Team Deathmatch'. I didn't think that was acceptable, and after interfering and discussing it with that admin, I think it was renamed to 'paintball'. Paintball should be on the edge of what is and what shouldn't be allowed, if you ask me. It involves a roleplayed organization, organized teams, is hosted at an area away from 'general population', and doesn't intend death (meaning you shouldn't go lower than 20HP or something).

Furthermore the non-roleplay by people. It is completely common to see plane landings at City Hall, bike stunting, car clippings, and 2 friends punching each other. This has to stop. Often it is seen that even 2 Adkins are having fun by punching each other.which I believe also misleads new players thinking that they can just punch each other.
I believe that we are slowly shifting to a free roam type of server instead of roleplay.

Back in 2007 to early 2009 we used to kick people for 'non-RP'. This was changed because people no longer wanted these limitations. Ever since, people have been trying to bring it back. Recently, someone was banned for not taking roleplay serious, so I think they are actually being brought back at last. Not that that's a good thing... I recall being kicked from the server in 2008, for flying a Nevada as freecop, being told that I shouldn't be on duty when flying aircraft. Argonath was pretty 'strict' about stuff like this for a while. There used to be a very famous SWAT Captain by the name of James Hunter. I don't think there was anyone who didn't somehow look up to him. I myself had a lot of respect for him back when he was a SWAT Captain. I was with a few people, doing some kind of criminal act at Santa Marina Beach, and he and his team raided us. He had us stand up against the wall and frisked us. After that, he asked everyone separately what we were doing. I gave an answer, and PMed it to my friends, so that my answer would match theirs. Not exactly a roleplay way, and I don't think I would do that again. As soon as my friend answered the same, James Hunter left the scene and PMed me that he knew I told him to say that. He didn't want to RP with us anymore because that was considered an act of non-RP.

PMing your friends when you're in roleplay trouble is something that happens a lot now, and honestly, there's nothing that can be done about it. Some people hate it, and some people just don't realize that it changes the entire atmosphere of the roleplay scenario. I wouldn't do it anymore, because I found out that it's a lot more fun to just roleplay and let the scenario overwhelm you. When you can, grab your cellphone and phone your friends, and just hope your kidnappers or robbers don't notice. That's the true fun in roleplay, where anything can happen, and you never know when or what it'll be. Another example, some of the very first gangwars as we know them today, were monitored by the entire admin team, in Grove Street. It was all orchestrated, it felt like a play, really. The administration decided when we could open fire and where we could stand. We weren't even allowed to hide on the roofs (camping).

I didn't like this at all, and I'm glad that we now have the freedom to roleplay the way we like, decide when we want to open fire on the 'enemies' we're roleplaying with, how we do it, and where we do it. I also enjoy the freedom of taking a break from the more serious roleplay scenarios I take part in, and fly a dodo low over the streets of Pershing Square, and land on top of City Hall with it. This is reality in Argonath, a huge amount of diversity among the players and the way they play. You've got to look for roleplay oppertunities, and the players are usually divided into different groups. Groups that may not roleplay a robbery, or a car show, or a barbecue together for that matter, but can be found alongside in events like a destruction derby, planesurfing, or just plain acting crazy on the city hall rooftop. This is what makes Argonath a true community and defines it. Without the full freedom, it wouldn't be the same.

[Huntsman]

Owners should try to dumb the old "No forced free roleplay" system, because it's really starting to be abused.
I think that we should try using the "low restricted roleplay"

[KhornateMonkey]

À mon avis, if you come onto a RP based server, you come to RP. But then again, I wouldn't punish for it.

[TheLegitHabibi]

The thing that really gets on my nerves is that roleplaying an agent and putting a criminal in mordor when he doesn't want it, is considered forcing roleplay.

I know he can't run away without rule break, and thus considered forced rp, but it shouldn't. I mean that's what a cop does. I can't even roleplay my job.....
Ain't my problem he decided to kill 20 cops.

[Mashgash]

The biggest issue in my opinion is that players do not know the correct definition of "force rp". It it is used to evade one roleplay scenario in order to arrive to another. If people can realise that we can not have an excuse as "i am gonna rp with my friends so i can not rp with you" we will have solved a lot of this issue.

Force rp is when you not letting the other player do anything. You decide how it begins and how it ends. RP is defined as interaction between two or more players. You do not interact by writing "/me shoots and kills Mash", you just finish the rp the way you want it without letting the other player(s) talk or contribute.

Overall it is RP, but as many of us in here do not like to lose the RP-level lowers and pointless discussions starts. Instead of playing for fun and entertainment, we play to win and gain assets. If we lose, we payback by rule-breaking. If we just can realize the game is for fun and we relax and laugh while we create epic scenarios will the server and the atmosphere be a much calmer and funnier place.

[Salmonella]

Force rp is when you not letting the other player do anything. You decide how it begins and how it ends. RP is defined as interaction between two or more players. You do not interact by writing "/me shoots and kills Mash", you just finish the rp the way you want it without letting the other player(s) talk or contribute.

I never interpreted it that way... My interpretation of the rule is that you can't force people to go along in your RP, so that the other party can refuse any time, which is why I said the two contradict each other. If it is true what you're saying, then the rule, 'you can't force RP', should perhaps get a different name. It is kind of confusing, and a lot of people, including administrators, including me as an administrator, have enforced the rule as if it means that people have a choice any time to decide if they want to roleplay or not.

Great to finally know the true meaning, anyways.

[SugarD]

This topic may be of interest to you all:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900.0

[Marcel]

Just to add to the conversation, i consider this as forced RP:

Why? I should be able to react to the "jump". I should be able to at least try and resist the "tape". The other player shouldn't have decided the outcome of that specific piece of RP.

[Salmonella]

Just to add to the conversation, i consider this as forced RP:

Why? I should be able to react to the "jump". I should be able to at least try and resist the "tape". The other player shouldn't have decided the outcome of that specific piece of RP.

Perfect example.