Is this right?

[Ted]

Now before you begin. I am not 'shitting' the management, nor I am telling admins how to do their job.
If you think my post is wrong in any way, please discuss it with me..

I would like to shed some light on some concerns that I have seen between admins.

1) The judgment isn't the same.
One admin says something is fine, the other says otherwise. This can be confusing and troublesome for many players who end up getting punished unintentionally.
Example, some admins like when you reply 'lol' to a funny kick or ban. Some would kick or warn you for commenting.

2) Many people including admins punch each other, run around and car kill friends.
However, sometimes players get in trouble for that. I did once, and I got warned for death matching for punching a friend because its attacking a player for no reason. Also, I was told that it misleads new players. Which I think is absolutely true. I don't think its right for admins to run around with red names punching each other either. That misleads players more, and just isn't right.

3) Killing events.
I used to host many Kill The Chicken events and one day I was told by pancher that it causes a huge mess. New players are mislead and the roleplay is destroyed as cops get involved etc. Completely agreed. But I still see admins hosting exactly the same killing events. This should be enforced too.

4) Admins mixing roleplay with admin duty.
Now this happens a lot. Admins do sometimes mix roleplay with admin work. If some players are breaking the law, or company, SAPD, or such rules, they shouldn't be punished for it. Admins should only enforce server rules.

5)Admins banning or kicking with funny comments.
Initially it was all right. Hackers got banned for "wrong kind of RPG" etc. However now, I often see that people are kicked or banned with funny comments that could be seen as provokative and are just not right. I remember seeing a guy getting banned and the admin sort of made fun of his bad English. It isn't nice behaviour specially as admins. If someone publicly says that on main chat he would be punished. So I suggest we end this funny comments in kicks and bans.

6) Cops admins and criminal admins.
Now this is kind of link to the first problem. Things aren't judged exactly the same.
As a judge, we are told that every case is to be judged the same. If we don't it causes problems. Now the cop admins have different views and the criminal admins have different views. And this causes problems.


I'm sure admins do not take this topic in a bad way. I'm trying to help by opening and discussing the concerns I have. By talking and figuring out solutions, we can all reach a better level of understanding.
Post Merge: April 08, 2013, 08:21:57 pm[/color][/size]
Sorry for the mistakes. Its hard to type with the phone and it auto corrects some words. Its a bigger pain to modify and correct it. -_-

1) Everyone will have their own opinions after all we are all different, however if some judgements do no follow our guidelines(Admin guidelines) we will pick up on it and sort it out.

2) I hope no one in the team is doing this after all you are role models.

3) Yes kill so and so for 100k or something stupid do causes all sorts of mess. I've always said go to Paruni if you fancy killing people for money. This is my opinion and I will openly say it.

4) This is true but if it's seen more as a breach of rules then players will be punished.

5) There's no harm in joking(Given it does not cause offence in any way) around although personally I'm not keen on these types of  'ban reasons' all I care about is that the meaning is put across.

6) Probably refer back to point 1).

I've answer vaguely I know but hopefully the gist has been received.

[Benn]

Instead of just posting "I agree", elaborate.

Admins are not robots either clones. We all have our own personality and experiences. Even if the main rules remain the same, we have different views on what is acceptable or not (ie: where is the border between rulebreak or not).

- Saying "lol" to a punishment isn't commenting and shouldn't be punished, however this is up to admin's discretion.

- Many of you think they can rulebreak because they do it to a friend... This is false. Rules apply for everyone. Saying "f**k you", carkilling, beating your friends doesn't make it legit because it's "your friends" and he didn't report you.

I agree

[Xavier12]

Everything written is absolutely right.This ain't right man.Shit happens...

[SugarD]

Guys, also try to remember that this topic is not for asking about scenarios and getting clarification. We have plenty of other stickied topics on the forum for that.

[TheLegitHabibi]

1) Everyone will have their own opinions after all we are all different, however if some judgements do no follow our guidelines(Admin guidelines) we will pick up on it and sort it out.

2) I hope no one in the team is doing this after all you are role models.

3) Yes kill so and so for 100k or something stupid do causes all sorts of mess. I've always said go to Paruni if you fancy killing people for money. This is my opinion and I will openly say it.

4) This is true but if it's seen more as a breach of rules then players will be punished.

5) There's no harm in joking(Given it does not cause offence in any way) around although personally I'm not keen on these types of  'ban reasons' all I care about is that the meaning is put across.

6) Probably refer back to point 1).

I've answer vaguely I know but hopefully the gist has been received.

1) You do have different views. But shouldn't opinions not interfere the judgement? If guidelines are felt to be lacking content we should try to increase them by adding various scenarios to make judgement more, similar throughout. Currently it varries a lot. Various situations admins have different views and that leaves us unsure of what we can and cannot do.

2) That happens every single day at city hall. Admins are jumping around, hitting each other. Punching, sometimes shooting gun aimed at the sky, and I've even seen them car kill other admins. Not to mention, I once encountered one admin who was stunting at city hall using a bike which is often punished or results in a suspection for a normal player.

3) Exactly. Yet I see admins hosting such events.

4) Exactly. For example, a friend got punished for breaking sapd rules. Which is a complete mixing of roleplay and admin duty by the admin.

5) Problem is, such jokes are sometimes provokative. Which then doesn't seem right. :/

6) yep..

[Stivi]

- Many of you think they can rulebreak because they do it to a friend... This is false. Rules apply for everyone. Saying "f**k you", carkilling, beating your friends doesn't make it legit because it's "your friends" and he didn't report you.

And how come the admin spectated it ?

[Cyril]

And how come the admin spectated it ?

Because he is doing a good job?

[TheLegitHabibi]

Because he is doing a good job?

Well if it isn't right to punch and car kill friends, then this should be enforced within the admin team more strictly.

[Stanley.]

I personally think that the current admin team is flawed in many ways, and unsuitable for the tasks of today. I am beginning to find certain admins take the first sip of the chalice, grasping power and simply warning, kicking, or even banning people without thought. This isn't the way to combat the actual problems. /freeze the player. Confront him, tell him what he has done wrong. Tell the player how to improve his own flaws. Help him for god's sake; Do not /warn instantly. It is clear certain admins can grasp the concept of 'Verbal Warning', where-as some do not. Whether this is due to lack of teaching, knowledge, or simple power-hungry(ness), It is wrong, and should be dealt with. The problem will never be vanquished. I have seen perfect example(s) of this, throughout my time in argonath. However, I can't help but notice the recent careless nature of some admins. Again, I will not state examples. I totally understand a /warn for things such as DM, ect. But for expressing someones opinion, alongside an answer over the help chat, resulted in a warning, yesterday. I will not state who the punishing admin was, but I can state he acted carelessly, seizing the opportunity to add another punishment to his punish book, as it seemed. I plead that something is to be done about this. This is not my only gripe with the admin team in it's current state, however. It is visible certain staff have quite a trolling nature, and it can come accross that they are not fullfilling their tasks at a professional standard. As funny as an admin can be, I suggest an admin should /aduty if they prefer to be a clown, instead of ignoring Multiple reports. As said, this only goes for certain staff. I happened to come accross a few incidents, aswell, in the server lately. Exclusive vehicles being handed out, without any proper explination, or cause? How can certain players be 'special' enough to have exclusive access to otherwise inaccessible vehicles. I have seen this numerous times, with no event info, bar, or anything. Another issue I have with the current admin team is their soft-spot toward certain regulars, who are given what seem like bias decisions, allowing them to dodge punishments, and for example, be unbanned at a faster speed, whereas another player would have been shown in a different light. This is just a few of many problems I see in Argonath's adminship. I do not believe all admins factor into this, but some do, And I'm sure they know who they are.

Tl;dr?: An admin is there for the sole purpose of combatting rulebreakers, and keeping the server a fun and safe environment. As an admin, your role does not fall under striking people with 'thy mighty ban-hammer', seeking power of the ancients. Being an admin is not a place for a clown either. When you have that red tag on, you are here to do your job. Nothing else.
                                                                                                     
 

[Cyril]

Well if it isn't right to punch and car kill friends, then this should be enforced within the admin team more strictly.

If you have evidences, send them to Managers.

[Brian]

If you have evidences, send them to Managers.

He is just saying, that admins, and managers also do this. and that if we are not allowed to do it. It should be also enforced for them, he is not moaning about it. He just said HE thinks it should be enforced...

[TheLegitHabibi]

Honestly cyril, I've seen managers do that too. :/
Which is why I mentioned in the concerns. Its not right to do it. Players get punished. So the admins shouldn't do it.
So it is not allowed right? If the admins are messing around they're technically breaking rules?
So we have one concern solved now.

[SugarD]

I personally think that the current admin team is flawed in many ways, and unsuitable for the tasks of today. I am beginning to find certain admins take the first sip of the chalice, grasping power and simply warning, kicking, or even banning people without thought. This isn't the way to combat the actual problems. /freeze the player. Confront him, tell him what he has done wrong. Tell the player how to improve his own flaws. Help him for god's sake; Do not /warn instantly. It is clear certain admins can grasp the concept of 'Verbal Warning', where-as some do not. Whether this is due to lack of teaching, knowledge, or simple power-hungry(ness), It is wrong, and should be dealt with. The problem will never be vanquished. I have seen perfect example(s) of this, throughout my time in argonath. However, I can't help but notice the recent careless nature of some admins. Again, I will not state examples. I totally understand a /warn for things such as DM, ect. But for expressing someones opinion, alongside an answer over the help chat, resulted in a warning, yesterday. I will not state who the punishing admin was, but I can state he acted carelessly, seizing the opportunity to add another punishment to his punish book, as it seemed. I plead that something is to be done about this. This is not my only gripe with the admin team in it's current state, however. It is visible certain staff have quite a trolling nature, and it can come accross that they are not fullfilling their tasks at a professional standard. As funny as an admin can be, I suggest an admin should /aduty if they prefer to be a clown, instead of ignoring Multiple reports. As said, this only goes for certain staff. I happened to come accross a few incidents, aswell, in the server lately. Exclusive vehicles being handed out, without any proper explination, or cause? How can certain players be 'special' enough to have exclusive access to otherwise inaccessible vehicles. I have seen this numerous times, with no event info, bar, or anything. Another issue I have with the current admin team is their soft-spot toward certain regulars, who are given what seem like bias decisions, allowing them to dodge punishments, and for example, be unbanned at a faster speed, whereas another player would have been shown in a different light. This is just a few of many problems I see in Argonath's adminship. I do not believe all admins factor into this, but some do, And I'm sure they know who they are.

Tl;dr?: An admin is there for the sole purpose of combatting rulebreakers, and keeping the server a fun and safe environment. As an admin, your role does not fall under striking people with 'thy mighty ban-hammer', seeking power of the ancients. Being an admin is not a place for a clown either. When you have that red tag on, you are here to do your job. Nothing else.

With such a message coming from someone new to this community, who expressed their concerns in a non-flaming, respectful way, I applaud you sir. That was a VERY well written explanation of your opinion from which contained constructive criticism without the aim to moan at, or attack anyone. Thank you for your concerns. I truly respect you for that. You have also brought up some very good points that I feel we all need to address.

[Cyril]

Wall of text

You want admins to spend times on rulebreakers explaining them what they did wrong etc, and you complain admins don't answer your report.
If I look right now on the server, there is one admin for 104 players. How do you expect him to spend 10 min on every rulebreakers? Of course he'll prioritise more important reports over minor ones such as ramming for example.

I also see very often in my PM "Why you didn't punish him", I answered them that I talked to him, and it's enough. Yet they moan because no punishment were given. People should make their mind clear.

I don't say admins are perfect, yet I would like to see you alone with 100 players and see how you react. They think it's an easy job to do. I'm not saying it's very hard, but it actually consume a lot of energy and it needs you to be reactive and concentrated. In my opinions players should make an effort too and trying to reduce the minor report as more as possible. Someone rammed you once? Don't report it... Go to PNS (it's free) and get over it.

Final thing that I see more and more: Roleplay should come from BOTH side. It means, you can't shoot for whatever reason at people because you roleplayed it without waiting to see what the other players was going to say or do. Saying "I roleplayed, I told him to leave and he didn't so I killed him, but it's roleplay so it's not DM" it's FALSE.

[TheLegitHabibi]

Wow Stanley.
Regarding the biased decisions. Yes. That's common in admins too.
People although said to be 'equal' are often treated in a biased way.
To some extent it is understandable why a new player is taught rules instead of punishing him.
However it is absolutely true that peoples past punishments, and their friendly nature seems to make admins take harsh or very lenient decisions.

Now iris right to kick someone who is previously wanted for the same thing. But what happens is, if a guy gets unbanned admins seem to think he always will be wrong which then might lead to more punishments. And a person who has played since 2010, member of FBI, does not necessarily be correct all the time. Yes, the person may be more trustworthy but if he's not punished, then the recently banned player shouldn't either.
I would agree that punishments sometimes are necessary, but they can be avoided. I remember that once I stopped a guy from hacking by talking to him pm when no admin was online. Back in 2009 admins were told to be polite and talk in pm to people before taking action. However situation now, is quite different.