Nearly half of all voters want Britain to leave the European Union

[[WS]Jacob]

I am happy to correct you. Democracy is about laws and decisions in peace time being made by the people.
Not a group that represents half of the people, with a higer group that is not elected at all but appointed by the Crown that according to you has no say.

Some I do agree with but then again every county in the UK has an elected representative for them which stands in Parliament. If you have an issue you can go to them and talk about it so they may raise it in Parliament. But then again if it goes against their party policy then they are unlikely to raise it in debate.

[Mikal]

And with people complaning as it is, how do you think the UK would fare if everything was 20% more expensive?
 

Not sure if I've understood you right, but if the EU made things in the UK get 20% more expensive then theres no doubt we'd be out..

I am happy to correct you. Democracy is about laws and decisions in peace time being made by the people.
Not a group that represents half of the people, with a higer group that is not elected at all but appointed by the Crown that according to you has no say.

If the people could make the laws, could you imagine what type of laws there'd be? :trust:

How is California doing? And the other 31 states that are bankrupt?

I read not long ago, wether it was BS or not I don't know, that US states would start seeking independence within the next 30 years, starting with California, would be a small country though, lol.

[Antonio.]

In 2012 ALONE, 25,000 Albanians were arrested in London for stealing from/rigging ATM machines

Oh yes, blame the criminal immigrants for all the problems.

[Cyril]

More than half, the EU is nothing but a drain on our economy and a massive inflow of migrants.

Research published by University College London in July 2009 showed that EU migrants made a "substantial net contribution to the UK fiscal system", paying 37 per cent more in taxes than they received in welfare payments. However, "EEA national(s) who are economically inactive, including A8 and A2 nationals will not generally be entitled to income-related benefits". Researchers found that, on average, A8 migrants were younger and better educated than the native population, and that if they had the same demographic characteristics of natives, would be 13 per cent less likely to claim benefits and 28 per cent less likely to live in social housing.

From the fiscal point of view, this immigration has not been at all a burden on the welfare system. Rather, it has contributed to strengthen the fiscal position

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-migrants-good-for-uk-economy-1759279.html

Let's blame migrants!

[Gandalf]

Some I do agree with but then again every county in the UK has an elected representative for them which stands in Parliament. If you have an issue you can go to them and talk about it so they may raise it in Parliament. But then again if it goes against their party policy then they are unlikely to raise it in debate.

And exactly that is how it works in the EU as well. Every country has a democratic representation of all parties elected in the European elections.
Apart from that all countries take turns at actually leading the EU within regular intervals.
While it is a prime example of bureaucracy, the EU goverment is fully and completely democratic.

[Mikal]

Oh yes, blame the criminal immigrants for all the problems.

Oh crap, an Albanian!
The criminals that come here from Albanians Romanians, along with other countries are a problem though.
I mean 25,000 Albanians Romanians arrested in 1 YEAR in London ALONE for stealing from ATMs, not sure about you, but I think thats a pretty major crime.
Nigel Farage did say, Albania Romania is a corrupt mess ran by criminal organizations and should never have been allowed to join the EU.

Let's blame migrants!

Right and the 25,000 Albanians Romanians that stole from ATM's in London arnt a drain on police resources and our economy, ok.

[EliteTerm]

How is California doing? And the other 31 states that are bankrupt?

Won't deny it, California is the biggest of them all and it's a cesspool. The way its run, they're trying to appeal to illegal immigrants and doing construction projects that they don't have money for ($60billion high speed rail project) and the fact there's hints of corruption running around.

[Gandalf]

Not sure if I've understood you right, but if the EU made things in the UK get 20% more expensive then theres no doubt we'd be out..

Nope. You would be Greece....

If the people could make the laws, could you imagine what type of laws there'd be? :trust:

It is going well in Switzerland. So you do not trust your own people to make laws?

I read not long ago, wether it was BS or not I don't know, that US states would start seeking independence within the next 30 years, starting with California, would be a small country though, lol.

The states that are net contributors like Texas think about independence. Just like in the EU those who contribute have people shouting about it.

In the end you should not forget that until 2007 there was not a single person doubting the EU, and the single reason people are talking about exiting is that they need a diversion for the local mismanagement.
Reality is the only way you can change something is by having interest in your representatives in the EU, and take part in the elections for them.
Another reality is that every country has already signed away independence to a level that is irreversible without the whole EU being taken apart.

[Ben.]

So many pro's and con's of leaving and staying in the EU. I speak (type) from a totally biased perspective, as my pilot's license is an EU-only one. If we left the EU, I could only fly within the UK...but the European Aviation Safety Agency have been tightening the ropes on flying anyway, so it could refresh flight within the UK if we were to leave.

On an economic point of view, I see no reason why we should stop trading with EU countries if we left, but then again, a lot of the support we could currently call upon would be lost.

Whether we are in the EU or not, the UK needs to find something. Something to lead. We used to rule the seas. Later the skies. Then, we had the Industrial Revolution.
With companies all going abroad, we're missing out on a lot...We can't expect to be a leading power when we have masses of debt, and an industry which, let's face it, is really not the best.

Basically, I'd say it doesn't matter whether we leave or not, but the UK needs a kick-start.

[Mikal]

Nope. You would be Greece....

Maybe so, but we'd still be out of the EU.

It is going well in Switzerland. So you do not trust your own people to make laws?

Would you want the 'ADULTS' from the London riots making laws for your country?

The states that are net contributors like Texas think about independence.

Just like in the EU those who contribute have people shouting about it.
In the end you should not forget that until 2007 there was not a single person doubting the EU, and the single reason people are talking about exiting is that they need a diversion for the local mismanagement.
Reality is the only way you can change something is by having interest in your representatives in the EU, and take part in the elections for them.
Another reality is that every country has already signed away independence to a level that is irreversible without the whole EU being taken apart.

The UK contributes alot to the EU, and we arn't getting enough benefits in return to give us a reason to stay, so why would we want to?

[Gandalf]

Oh crap, an Albanian!
The criminals that come here from Albania, along with other countries are a problem though.
I mean 25,000 Albanians arrested in 1 YEAR in London ALONE for stealing from ATMs, not sure about you, but I think thats a pretty major crime.
Nigel Farage did say, Albania is a corrupt mess ran by criminal organizations and should never have been allowed to join the EU.
Right and the 25,000 Albanians that stole from ATM's in London arnt a drain on police resources and our economy, ok.

In 2001 there were 122.500 Albanians living in the UK, the number has not risen since.
Also Albania is NOT a member of the WU, it is in applicant status.
Another lie by Nigel....

[Gandalf]

Maybe so, but we'd still be out of the EU.
Would you want the 'ADULTS' from the London riots making laws for your country?
The UK contributes alot to the EU, and we arn't getting enough benefits in return to give us a reason to stay, so why would we want to?

Instead of contributing you would be receiving help. And of course half of your bank accounts would be confiscated. Well that would make those Albanians leave....

Perhaps you should first take care of those 'ADULTS' before pointing at the EU.
It seems to me the internal problems in the UK are far worse as anything regarding the EU. But people like Farage use the old tactic of pointing at an external factor they know will not disappear so they never get to the task of acutally doing what they shout about.

[Antonio.]

Albania is a corrupt mess ran by criminal organizations and should never have been allowed to join the EU.

To start off with, Albania is not even in the EU and proves to show that you have no idea what you're talking about. Second of all, Albania is currently one of the best countries in the Balkan that has improved in many fields, one of them being in economics.

Right and the 25,000 Albanians that stole from ATM's in London arnt a drain on police resources and our economy, ok.

I don't even know if this is true considering I haven't heard anything about it, but even if it is, let's just blame those 25,000 Albanians for all the problems over there, and for the upcoming problems in the future.

[Cyril]

The UK contributes alot to the EU, and we arn't getting enough benefits in return to give us a reason to stay, so why would we want to?

Germany and France contributes more than UK, and we don't complain. We try to find solutions, and not giving up. EU is something that needs time to construct and optimize.

[[WS]Jacob]

It seems to me the internal problems in the UK are far worse as anything regarding the EU.

Michael Gove.