Baltic states honor the victims of Soviet and Nazi regimes

[Khakaure]

Oh so you must have worked and lived a life in the USSR? Tell me more about how bad the Soviet Union was.

Ah yes, the old argument "you can't say anything about my precious USSR if you didn't live there". So it happens, we don't have to be at every place at any time to know what happened, there are other methods of knowing what it was like. Like, you know, history.

Alas, you should apply your own logic to yourself next time you talk about other countries you don't live in, "bruh".

[Borus]

Ah yes, the old argument "you can't say anything about my precious USSR if you didn't live there". So it happens, we don't have to be at every place at any time to know what happened, there are other methods of knowing what it was like. Like, you know, history.

Alas, you should apply your own logic to yourself next time you talk about other countries you don't live in, "bruh".

Oh but I did live in Russia, and a part of my family did live their lives in the Soviet Union. Tell me, how come when they tell me that every time they woke up, went to work, kids went to school for free, both having free insurance, all safe and secure that by their return, the table would be covered with food like it is today, the (by then) US anti-commy propaganda made it look like a chaotic state who wages war continuisly and can't feed their own people. Now tell me how my family lied to me . In all seriousness; every state of -ism had its flaws. Yes, the USSR wasn't paradise, but what is 'paradise' exactly? People weren't hungry, got around and lived life, while even have 2 homes most of the time (AKA "dacha"). Easy to say "West is good East is bad" whereas you probably never even experienced anything of it while pulling such arguments on 'history'. History only tends to discuss wars, and state-of-war matter, and not the everyday lives of Soviet citizens.

[Kirgiz]

What does that have to do with what I asked?

...... I was of better opinion about you....

It's hilarious how people are trying their best to deny that the Soviet Union did f**ked up things in Eastern Europe.

Remind me please who does defend Soviet Union's actions particularly in this topic? Names, please.

Ah yes, the old argument "you can't say anything about my precious USSR if you didn't live there". So it happens, we don't have to be at every place at any time to know what happened, there are other methods of knowing what it was like. Like, you know, history.

My sources could be my entire family, especially grandparents. Till this day they all say that the Soviet Union post 70s wasn't bad at all, it was retarded during Stalin reign 30-50s, but after that it went uphill great for citizens. Albeit downhill f**ked up with the economics and infrastructure, but that's a different story simply because nobody was aware of it.

Oh but I did live in Russia, and a part of my family did live their lives in the Soviet Union. Tell me, how come when they tell me that every time they woke up, went to work, kids went to school for free, both having free insurance, all safe and secure that by their return, the table would be covered with food like it is today,

The problem is that this kind of infrastructure for the country worked only temporarily, because economy was fucked up. You also mentioned the bit about "war waging" of USSR, I'll remind you that, firstly, economy in the Soviet Union was militaristic-based, and secondly, there were the Afghanistan war, Vietnam, which didn't happen ONLY because of USA.

The life in the mid-late USSR was good, but it didn't work out because USSR eventually ran out of resources. Everyone was satisfied except the government who were ran by a bunch of Alzheimer-eqsue old people who couldn't properly think of changing the economy, or being afraid of the change, or even trying to do ANYTHING. The regime basically died out like a terminally sick hazel, which is a shame. I can't really say that post-USSR countries are having a really good time nowadays.

[Jubin]

Oh but I did live in Russia, and a part of my family did live their lives in the Soviet Union. Tell me, how come when they tell me that every time they woke up, went to work, kids went to school for free, both having free insurance, all safe and secure that by their return, the table would be covered with food like it is today, the (by then) US anti-commy propaganda made it look like a chaotic state who wages war continuisly and can't feed their own people. Now tell me how my family lied to me . In all seriousness; every state of -ism had its flaws. Yes, the USSR wasn't paradise, but what is 'paradise' exactly? People weren't hungry, got around and lived life, while even have 2 homes most of the time (AKA "dacha"). Easy to say "West is good East is bad" whereas you probably never even experienced anything of it while pulling such arguments on 'history'. History only tends to discuss wars, and state-of-war matter, and not the everyday lives of Soviet citizens.

Edo, now maybe your family members were one of the "most equals among equals", you know the ones who had special stores for them to buy from. Yes education was free also compulsory at times till high school. What you think what kind of education you get from this kind of system. Also want me to tell you about some of the perks of the university in Soviet era. Every thesis or research paper you did had to be tied somehow to Lenins thought that also includes Physics. I had a conversation with a Geography professor who to get his PhD equivalent (candidate) first had to say in his paper that his research paper has no value at all and had it check in Department no 1 (KGB).
Wanted less trouble as a student? Become a member of the Communistic Party's youth organization. (Comsomol). Wanted to buy sausages, well go wait in line or go to market and buy from a dude who has his "premium" sausages right under his coat.
want to print out some birthday pamphlets and pass it out in your office. Go trough the censorship first. Needed baby clothes? Good luck as those are deficits.

Now Edo, tell me how my family and the people around me who all lived in that era in ESSR lied to me?

Life for the regular person was how it was, yes you had free healthcare and education also the culture you could experience was a lot cheaper than it is today and I do understand that a lot of people might remember it with nostalgia, also the experiences between people varies, but it's all in the past and that's where it also belongs.

[Borus]

Edo, now maybe your family members were one of the "most equals among equals", you know the ones who had special stores for them to buy from. Yes education was free also compulsory at times till high school. What you think what kind of education you get from this kind of system. Also want me to tell you about some of the perks of the university in Soviet era. Every thesis or research paper you did had to be tied somehow to Lenins thought that also includes Physics. I had a conversation with a Geography professor who to get his PhD equivalent (candidate) first had to say in his paper that his research paper has no value at all and had it check in Department no 1 (KGB).
Wanted less trouble as a student? Become a member of the Communistic Party's youth organization. (Comsomol). Wanted to buy sausages, well go wait in line or go to market and buy from a dude who has his "premium" sausages right under his coat.
want to print out some birthday pamphlets and pass it out in your office. Go trough the censorship first. Needed baby clothes? Good luck as those are deficits.

I never denied the fact that there wasn't any communist propaganda in the USSR. It was the 'way' of life back then, obviously, which also made sense with the ongoing cold war. You think 'communists' in the West were treated fairly and democratic during the cold war?

Now Edo, tell me how my family and the people around me who all lived in that era in ESSR lied to me?

No I wouldn't say that. All I can say on that matter is that the life within the USSR differed from ethnicity to ethnicity which unfortunately reflects back onto your family's past, yes. But then again, how could you condemn the whole system if those 'characteristics' only applied on certain parts of the republic? That's what I'm trying to point out here.

Life for the regular person was how it was, yes you had free healthcare and education also the culture you could experience was a lot cheaper than it is today and I do understand that a lot of people might remember it with nostalgia, also the experiences between people varies, but it's all in the past and that's where it also belongs.

I agree that the past is the past and life today differs from it. Just like the life back then differed from the life under Tsar Peter II...

[Huntsman]

Enough shit on one topic already, let me clear some stuff for you first.

1st. i'm not against Russia, i'm against USSR. (If i would be against Russia, would I willingly be learning Russian?)
2nd. I never said I support Lithuanias membership of EU and NATO, joining it was a rush decision that we should revert ASAP.

Now, as for KhornateMonkey, you got our whole education wrong.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Grade 1 - 7-8 yo
Grade 2 - 8-9 yo
Grade 3 - 9-10 yo
Grade 4 - 10-11 yo

Middle School
Grade 5 - 11-12 yo
Grade 6 - 12-13
Grade 7 - 13-14
Grade 8 - 14-15

Gymnasium/High School
Grade 9 (or 1st Gymnasium Class) - 15-16 (ME!)
Grade 10 (or 2nd Gymnasium Class) - 16
Grade 11 (Optional, 3rd Gymnasium Class)
Grade 12 (Optional, 4th Gymnasium Class)

And our education IS one of the highest rated ones in Europe. Google it if you dont believe me.

Now, before you shitstorm in this topic, let me f**king make it clear - My mother, my father, my sister and my brother all lived in the Lithuanian SSR. They do indeed say that life was better back then because of proper wages and cheaper prices. But then there was a dark side that they also state, KGB, nearly impossible to leave the country, getting rich, pursuing career or unleashing your talents pretty much were illegal, if you had it better than others you could have been turned into a enemy of society or blamed as a bourgeois, the only places were you could travel were the USSR, the rest of the world pretty much didnt exist for you, most of what you saw on TV was "Gorbachev today has visited a kolhoz of some ukrainian city" and so on, freedom of speech appeared only in the last days of the union, you couldnt say anything against the union, Russians were dominant and everything politically important was in Russian, they tried to destroy the identities of Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Ukrainians and all the other nations that were in USSR, trying to turn them into Russians, profit was illegal as well, if you bought a car for 500 rubles, you couldnt sell it for 560 rubles, you had to sell it either cheaper or at the same price, otherwise you would be called a bourgeois and imprisoned. Imagine, profit was ILLEGAL, you had to sell everything at a price that government has set, and it was a time when brother went against brother to get a better life condition, for example, rating out that someone said something bad about USSR or a teacher said some patriotic speech to the students, it pretty much got you very well awarded. Being a traitor of your nation was being a hero to the USSR. Oh, and dont get me started on thousands of people who got deported to Syberia and died there just for having a head and living better than others.

[KhornateMonkey]

Now, as for KhornateMonkey, you got our whole education wrong.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Grade 1 - 7-8 yo
Grade 2 - 8-9 yo
Grade 3 - 9-10 yo
Grade 4 - 10-11 yo

Middle School
Grade 5 - 11-12 yo
Grade 6 - 12-13
Grade 7 - 13-14
Grade 8 - 14-15

Gymnasium/High School
Grade 9 (or 1st Gymnasium Class) - 15-16 (ME!)
Grade 10 (or 2nd Gymnasium Class) - 16
Grade 11 (Optional, 3rd Gymnasium Class)
Grade 12 (Optional, 4th Gymnasium Class)

Okay, that's great, but this still does not prove that your friend was intelligent enough to skip a few years. For example, if I compare Grade 7 to Year 7. In Lithuania, the age in Grade 7 is 13-14 years, yet in the UK the age for year 7 is 12.

Judging by this information, it is clear why your classmate was pushed forward a few "grades". This is due to his age, not intelligence.

[Huntsman]

Okay, that's great, but this still does not prove that your friend was intelligent enough to skip a few years

I told you what he told me, so..

Whatever, he's an immigrant anyways.

[Borus]

they tried to destroy the identities of Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Ukrainians and all the other nations that were in USSR, trying to turn them into Russians

Complete BS. If that was the case, there wouldn't be something as "Lithuanian SSR" or "Ukranian SSR" etc. Besides, Stalin even gave out RUSSIAN land to Ukraine (Crimea) and Georgia (Abkhazia, etc.), which obviously implies that the USSR acknowledged different nationalities.

it was a time when brother went against brother to get a better life condition, for example, rating out that someone said something bad about USSR or a teacher said some patriotic speech to the students,

Still happens frequently today, in the West.

Oh, and dont get me started on thousands of people who got deported to Syberia and died there just for having a head and living better than others.

Stalinism =/= Communism. Yes, the camps still existed after his death, but deportations and executions were drastically decreased in scale. Also, again, this same thing is happening in modern day West. IE: Snowden & Manning, who are being blamed for treason by the US government.

[Huntsman]

Complete BS. If that was the case, there wouldn't be something as "Lithuanian SSR" or "Ukranian SSR" etc. Besides, Stalin even gave out RUSSIAN land to Ukraine (Crimea) and Georgia (Abkhazia, etc.), which obviously implies that the USSR acknowledged different nationalities.
Still happens frequently today, in the West.
Stalinism =/= Communism. Yes, the camps still existed after his death, but deportations and executions were drastically decreased in scale. Also, again, this same thing is happening in modern day West. IE: Snowden & Manning, who are being blamed for treason by the US government.

Happens in West, happens in West... So what? That does not prove anything because it does not have to do anything with the west. Lithuania is Central /Eastern Europe, and we dont give a shit about what happens in west. We're talking about what happened in EAST and what affect, good and/or bad USSR had on it.

[Mikal]

-BS-

Complete crap, you don't get to skip years in the UK no matter how intelligent you are, if Stephen Hawking was 10 he's still be in the same year that 10 year olds are in, what does the rating of the educational system prove? What has your 'highly intelligent' country achieved in the world?

I told you what he told me, so..

Right, so if your mate told you the moon was made of cheese would you believe him?

[Borus]

Happens in West, happens in West... So what? That does not prove anything because it does not have to do anything with the west. Lithuania is Central /Eastern Europe, and we dont give a shit about what happens in west. We're talking about what happened in EAST and what affect, good and/or bad USSR had on it.

What I tried to imply is that each state has its fair share of dishonesty. That's how politics worked, are working and always will be working, and you'll have to deal with it every day.

[Jubin]

Complete BS. If that was the case, there wouldn't be something as "Lithuanian SSR" or "Ukranian SSR" etc. Besides, Stalin even gave out RUSSIAN land to Ukraine (Crimea) and Georgia (Abkhazia, etc.), which obviously implies that the USSR acknowledged different nationalities.

No, not really a complete BS. Take it this way - official bureaucracy language in any state of Soviet Union - Russian. Language in what the science was made was also Russian. Russian language was started to teach in kindergarten. Although Russian immigrants who moved to ESSR did not have to learn Estonian and there were a lot of Russian immigrants. That is also kind of the reason why now when I go to Tallinn (Capital of Estonia) I hear more Russian than Estonian on the street. If Soviet Union would have lasted 20 more years, Estonians would be minority in Estonia. Also there were slogans and campaigns promoting mixed nationalities kindergartens, because a bilingual citizen is twice the citizen!

Which is all the more sadder to see these days how Estonian government is using the same tactics toward Russians.

PS: I am out of this topic from now on as I have received a "Chinese warning" once a long time ago. If anyone wants to keep going, my PM is open.

[Huntsman]

What has your 'highly intelligent' country achieved in the world?

Thanks to the Soviets we're talking about here - nothing. However, Lithuanian specialists on different sections are on high demand in Europe. I wonder why.

No, not really a complete BS. Take it this way - official bureaucracy language in any state of Soviet Union - Russian. Language in what the science was made was also Russian. Russian language was started to teach in kindergarten. Although Russian immigrants who moved to ESSR did not have to learn Estonian and there were a lot of Russian immigrants. That is also kind of the reason why now when I go to Tallinn (Capital of Estonia) I hear more Russian than Estonian on the street. If Soviet Union would have lasted 20 more years, Estonians would be minority in Estonia. Also there were slogans and campaigns promoting mixed nationalities kindergartens, because a bilingual citizen is twice the citizen!

Which is all the more sadder to see these days how Estonian government is using the same tactics toward Russians.

PS: I am out of this topic from now on as I have received a "Chinese warning" once a long time ago. If anyone wants to keep going, my PM is open.

Soviets tried to colonize the baltics, moved Russians into KlaipÄ—da, Vilnius and other economically important cities, and moved Lithuanians out... Whenever i'm in KlaipÄ—da i can hear a lot of Russian speaking people, and rarely Lithuanian speaking ones. However, surprisingly Lithuanians and Russians are getting along in there perfectly, unlike Lithuanians and Polish in Vilnius, somehow.

[Mikal]

Thanks to the Soviets we're talking about here - nothing. However, Lithuanian specialists on different sections are on high demand in Europe. I wonder why.

Every country could say that.