Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: [NP]Monte Montague on November 20, 2013, 06:10:45 am
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Hello,
I would like to know how and why SAPD is to run the Show in Rs5, particularly concerning the removal of "ARPD officers" entirely" and this resulting in all officers having to obey the real SAPD (who will now be known as the first tier SAPD, and the second still being "Freecops" - can't really get rid of it that easy)
I have long seen that SAPD does not indeed run the show in RS4, but many provisions are given to them by the developers so they can for example:
- Copban anyone they wish simply because they saw their technique as wrong, even tho it was justifiable.
- Moderator has to ask Unsus from Snr officer but cannot unsus them self.
It struggles at times to get its own affairs in order, let alone manage ARPD officers - which apparently they are not supposed to do but they try and do anyway.
For example, I would only be happy to follow ARPD Commissioner, heads of state, and only ever Chief of SAPD and FBI when it is in the spirit of good, and it's co-operation and not them trying to prevent me from roleplaying or trying to make me roleplay like them, i simply just drive off or don't follow them.
Information and opinion would be much obliged.
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If, in time or otherwise, everyone going on duty would be required to follow one police roleplay group's regulations, that would be extremely limiting to the current freedom of police roleplay. Argonath has always been about creativity, but suddenly we would have to follow set regulations (mind you, set by a roleplay group on who's views of policing you might not even agree with) leaving little room for your own and your friend's roleplay.
Example: There are suspects inside a building that is surrounded by police. There are 5 suspects, 8 SAPD officers and 5 ARPD officers. When it comes to breaching, whoever is highest rank among SAPD officer would gather his buddies from SAPD, tell ARPD to stay outside and breach themselves. If me and my friends have a roleplay going on where we are a highly trained assault team as well, it is ruined and our roleplay is limited to being a security guards, because we, apparently, have to follow SAPD's orders.
If you want to treat police equally, then do so by allowing equal chance to create your own, equally important, policing group, instead of handing all the power in hands of some, who might think that you are not skilled enough to do what your group's goals are to do, and gives you an order not to do it.
If me and my friends enjoy close quarter combat of indoors, we shouldn't be forced to:
Apply for SAPD (or whatever you are going to call the ranks above just going on /duty),
get accepted,
receive the rank of senior officer,
send a letter to SWAT,
get invited,
receive training,
get rank.
We should be allowed to just do it without fear of copban (which should be returned to being an admin command, but that's another story) for "not following direct orders" from someone you've never met much less made a decision to subject yourself to their command. How is this not ruining roleplay (ruins your police group) and/or forced roleplay (either sit outside here or be copbanned), both of which are against the server rules? How is being allowed to reliably perform same/similar duty as SWAT or FBI does only if you've passed some arbitrary scale equal opportunity?
Last I checked, all of these were just roleplay groups, official ones, I'll grant you that, but still roleplay groups. Roleplay groups who's own roleplay limits/ruins your, unofficial roleplay group's roleplay. Them having copban also permits them to ban you from roleplaying in your group, only because you're roleplaying same thing they are, without being part of them. Is this the equality you're aiming for?
Yes, I get it, you want all the police officers under one banner, so there's no treating ARPD officers differently from SAPD officers, but if that comes at the cost of roleplay, then please, remove SAPD instead, they can keep roleplay as they have, with imaginary ranks instead of scripted ranks. And everyone else can roleplay their own groups as well. And everyone would be treated the same, because you wouldn't know otherwise.
I honestly don't approve of being told by member of a roleplay group you're not part of to "either get on TS or no breach", or "don't breach, you stay outside", and failure to follow either of these would most likely end up with removal of tools to roleplay what you want - a damn police officer, not a security guard.
Imagine a Corleone telling a Luciano to get their ass out of Los Santos or they must no longer permit a single crime. It's the same thing here.
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Well said Pingster, i agree with all your points.
Escpecially, this is a damn game, so why on earth i would have to wait an year if i want to play as SWAT or FBI or all the other divisions coming in RS5, this has to come to an end.
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Also, on point of copban, the least you can do it remove from SAPD, but let FBI have it. Have all ARPD and SAPD reports go to them, as they're the ones supposed to look into police corruption and police breaking the law. I know it goes against my previous points of one roleplay group having power another, but I realise that president appointing a fully active commissioner who is going to look through every ARPD/SAPD report is unrealistic.
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Really well said, Pingster, I take my hat off. I was already a subject to some of this "abuse" of /copban command just because I didn't want to work the way of some........ outstanding individuals, so to speak. This should at once return to admins only, and only for breach of rules such as killing a surrendered suspect, intensive /su abuse, random deathmatch and so on.
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We have alsways said that we do not allow competition in law enforcement, and there is just one single police force.
Anyone who decided that there were two forces now may understand there has in the eyes of the owners never been a separation.
For 7 years people have cried about freecops and pushed that they needed training. So now they will be trained, and nobody will be able to complain that cops do not know how to follow the rules.
As a result there is one single poice force, ARPD.
Within that force there is still room for those who occcasionally want to play the cop role and those who wish to take prt in a more serious structure, that freedom is not changed in any way.
ARPD will not be able to copban for anything but RP cases, and will need RP evidence. If cops break server rules, the admin team will be punishing as they have always been.
There is no change in freedom, only the stigma resting on freecops is removed by making one single police force.
Any such type of moaning by a player who is not active on server will be handled ad advertising.
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Any such type of moaning by a player who is not active on server will be handled ad advertising.
I guess this was aimed at me, so I ask: what?
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I guess this was aimed at me, so I ask: what?
Not aimed at anyone specific, jus a general warning that I do not allow people who do not actively play to spread negative propaganda.
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There is no change in freedom
Well part of current freedom was that ARPD didn't really need to take orders from SAPD, as long as freecops followed ARPD rules and ARPD command. That permitted you to roleplay your way without having to worry about an SAPD Sgt saying that it's a different way from how SAPD roleplays, and thus should stop. That's what I'm worried about, everyone being unified under one group that has their own view on how you should be playing as a cop, leaving little room for variation. Unless some drastic changes to these regulations are made to account for the freedom freecops have always had. There's no reason not to do this, if you feel you want to continue being SAPD as you always have, you can, you don't need regulations to do that.
It's great to hear about the copban use!
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Well part of current freedom was that ARPD didn't really need to take orders from SAPD, as long as freecops followed ARPD rules and ARPD command.
Incorrect. ARPD officers are required to play the police role as they are, which includes taking orders from higher ranked officers.
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If, in time or otherwise, everyone going on duty would be required to follow one police roleplay group's regulations, that would be extremely limiting to the current freedom of police roleplay. Argonath has always been about creativity, but suddenly we would have to follow set regulations (mind you, set by a roleplay group on who's views of policing you might not even agree with) leaving little room for your own and your friend's roleplay.
The current regulations for ARPD Officers are almost the same as the SAPD one's. The drive-by regulation is probably the only one worth mentioning. Moreover, that regulation should have already been set for ARPD Officers. It wouldn't add anything to the role-play besides a cop who decides to shoot instead of chase. (which is not realistic at all)
If you want to mention more changes, I'll happily discuss it with you.
Example: There are suspects inside a building that is surrounded by police. There are 5 suspects, 8 SAPD officers and 5 ARPD officers. When it comes to breaching, whoever is highest rank among SAPD officer would gather his buddies from SAPD, tell ARPD to stay outside and breach themselves. If me and my friends have a roleplay going on where we are a highly trained assault team as well, it is ruined and our roleplay is limited to being a security guards, because we, apparently, have to follow SAPD's orders.
You have always been obliged to follow the highest ranked officer's orders at such a scene.
If you want to treat police equally, then do so by allowing equal chance to create your own, equally important, policing group, instead of handing all the power in hands of some, who might think that you are not skilled enough to do what your group's goals are to do, and gives you an order not to do it.
In my 3 years police experience I haven't seen any serious try for such a group besides the CIA from Marcel. Who doesn't use the /duty system.
If me and my friends enjoy close quarter combat of indoors, we shouldn't be forced to:
Apply for SAPD (or whatever you are going to call the ranks above just going on /duty),
get accepted,
receive the rank of senior officer,
send a letter to SWAT,
get invited,
receive training,
get rank.
You can still do this, but you have to listen to the highest ranking officer at the scene. Which has been like this for years now.
We should be allowed to just do it without fear of copban (which should be returned to being an admin command, but that's another story) for "not following direct orders" from someone you've never met much less made a decision to subject yourself to their command. How is this not ruining roleplay (ruins your police group) and/or forced roleplay (either sit outside here or be copbanned), both of which are against the server rules? How is being allowed to reliably perform same/similar duty as SWAT or FBI does only if you've passed some arbitrary scale equal opportunity?
SWAT and FBI have always had the right to breach as first. There has never been an ARPD group who was allowed to breach before SWAT/FBI.
Last I checked, all of these were just roleplay groups, official ones, I'll grant you that, but still roleplay groups. Roleplay groups who's own roleplay limits/ruins your, unofficial roleplay group's roleplay. Them having copban also permits them to ban you from roleplaying in your group, only because you're roleplaying same thing they are, without being part of them. Is this the equality you're aiming for?
Yes, because you should actually do something before reaching that role play. It makes it fun to have a goal and finally make it. It's like saying that everyone should get $1000000, you don't have to do anything for it.
We don't need more than one group who does the same tasks as SWAT. We don't need another group with the same tasks as the FBI.
I honestly don't approve of being told by member of a roleplay group you're not part of to "either get on TS or no breach", or "don't breach, you stay outside", and failure to follow either of these would most likely end up with removal of tools to roleplay what you want - a damn police officer, not a security guard.
This has never been allowed to say by a leader and should be reported to the command.
Imagine a Corleone telling a Luciano to get their ass out of Los Santos or they must no longer permit a single crime. It's the same thing here.
No it's not.
I still don't like the ARPD being removed since I think it's a good thing to see if I talk to one who follows more regulations and has ambition, than talk to someone who follows and has less.
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That CIA is serious, yes, however i've told this many times before: it's not a law enforcement group : )
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Hello,
I would like to know how and why SAPD is to run the Show in Rs5, particularly concerning the removal of "ARPD officers" entirely" and this resulting in all officers having to obey the real SAPD (who will now be known as the first tier SAPD, and the second still being "Freecops" - can't really get rid of it that easy)
I have long seen that SAPD does not indeed run the show in RS4, but many provisions are given to them by the developers so they can for example:
- Copban anyone they wish simply because they saw their technique as wrong, even tho it was justifiable.
- Moderator has to ask Unsus from Snr officer but cannot unsus them self.
It struggles at times to get its own affairs in order, let alone manage ARPD officers - which apparently they are not supposed to do but they try and do anyway.
For example, I would only be happy to follow ARPD Commissioner, heads of state, and only ever Chief of SAPD and FBI when it is in the spirit of good, and it's co-operation and not them trying to prevent me from roleplaying or trying to make me roleplay like them, i simply just drive off or don't follow them.
Information and opinion would be much obliged.
If you call a simple renaming, a removal. Then I guess you are correct, otherwise you seem to be seriously misguided about what's going to happen, but I guess Gandalf explained that part to you.
If, in time or otherwise, everyone going on duty would be required to follow one police roleplay group's regulations, that would be extremely limiting to the current freedom of police roleplay. Argonath has always been about creativity, but suddenly we would have to follow set regulations (mind you, set by a roleplay group on who's views of policing you might not even agree with) leaving little room for your own and your friend's roleplay.
Well I guess that means that you are not following the "ARPD Regualations" given out by the ARPD Commissioner himself currently ?
Because you are currently actually required to follow one police roleplay group's regulation and that group is ARPD.
If you can point out how is going to be different in RS5, I would love to hear about it. Of course that is probably because you possess a lot more knowledge of RS5's police structure, then us.
Example: There are suspects inside a building that is surrounded by police. There are 5 suspects, 8 SAPD officers and 5 ARPD officers. When it comes to breaching, whoever is highest rank among SAPD officer would gather his buddies from SAPD, tell ARPD to stay outside and breach themselves. If me and my friends have a roleplay going on where we are a highly trained assault team as well, it is ruined and our roleplay is limited to being a security guards, because we, apparently, have to follow SAPD's orders.
If you want to treat police equally, then do so by allowing equal chance to create your own, equally important, policing group, instead of handing all the power in hands of some, who might think that you are not skilled enough to do what your group's goals are to do, and gives you an order not to do it.
If me and my friends enjoy close quarter combat of indoors, we shouldn't be forced to:
Apply for SAPD (or whatever you are going to call the ranks above just going on /duty),
get accepted,
receive the rank of senior officer,
send a letter to SWAT,
get invited,
receive training,
get rank.
I am not going to even count how many things you got wrong there, but I will try to solve the obvious gaps of knowledge you seem to possess.
First ARPD Officers have always had to follow SAPD/FBI/SWAT's orders when breaching, that won't change. What you want to roleplay or not is all up to you, but when it attempts to bring chaos in to a organised system, it won't be allowed.
Second ARPD Officer's have always been given power to make their own group, but there is a simple restriction placed on that to prevent any possible competition attempts or even worse waste of manpower on something that obviously is already being done by a different group.
Third - The SWAT recruitment processes you showed over there is really far from the actual truth, but I guess you seem to like to be misguided so I will leave it at that, unless you actually want to ask somebody from SWAT how it works, not to guess on your own.
We should be allowed to just do it without fear of copban (which should be returned to being an admin command, but that's another story) for "not following direct orders" from someone you've never met much less made a decision to subject yourself to their command. How is this not ruining roleplay (ruins your police group) and/or forced roleplay (either sit outside here or be copbanned), both of which are against the server rules? How is being allowed to reliably perform same/similar duty as SWAT or FBI does only if you've passed some arbitrary scale equal opportunity?
Could you point out to me a single copban that has been handed out, because of what somebody RPed ?
And you have subjected yourself to their commands, the moment you actually typed the /duty command BTW.
Last I checked, all of these were just roleplay groups, official ones, I'll grant you that, but still roleplay groups. Roleplay groups who's own roleplay limits/ruins your, unofficial roleplay group's roleplay. Them having copban also permits them to ban you from roleplaying in your group, only because you're roleplaying same thing they are, without being part of them. Is this the equality you're aiming for?
You got that right and you got that wrong.
ARPD is a official roleplay group that includes everybody, yes including the "untouchable" ARPD officers you speak of and SAPD.
The only difference is that SAPD represents the trained and dedicated part of officers and the ARPD officer rank is given so people that wish to enjoy the police job, can operate, but they are not fully dedicated.
And yes ARPD actually has the ability to copban you from ARPD duty.
I hope you remember that SAPD Head Command was placed as ARPD Command(SA:MP server) per the orders of the ARPD Commissioner.
Yes, I get it, you want all the police officers under one banner, so there's no treating ARPD officers differently from SAPD officers, but if that comes at the cost of roleplay, then please, remove SAPD instead, they can keep roleplay as they have, with imaginary ranks instead of scripted ranks. And everyone else can roleplay their own groups as well. And everyone would be treated the same, because you wouldn't know otherwise.
No point to even answer this, if you actually bother to read what Gandalf has said.
I honestly don't approve of being told by member of a roleplay group you're not part of to "either get on TS or no breach", or "don't breach, you stay outside", and failure to follow either of these would most likely end up with removal of tools to roleplay what you want - a damn police officer, not a security guard.
Imagine a Corleone telling a Luciano to get their ass out of Los Santos or they must no longer permit a single crime. It's the same thing here.
I would love to hear who told you that, because it wasn't a roleplay group that told you so, it was individual and I doubt he actually said it, but rather you are trying to make up something to sound more serious about this. Still with that being said, I would love to hear who it was and see evidence of that.
And your last sentence would make more sense if you say:
"Imagine a Corleone telling a Corleone...", because as I already stated SAPD is apart of ARPD.
Sadly we have heard all the same rumble for years now and I am still waiting for somebody to come to me and tell me "I disagree with this and this, because of those logical reasons and I have that to back it up".
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For those that think ARPD is being removed....
SAPD is the police force under ARPD in the SAMP server !!!
They are the SAME as far as SAMP is concerned.
Its a name... NOTHING more !!
SAPD as of old is getting closed and ALL SAPD will reform to the NEW SAPD, in fact a lot of work has gone on behind the scenes to try and get the current SAPD in a position to reform very quickly on RS5 launch.
There is only 1 rank above SAPD Chief in the SAMP server ... that's ME !!
We have combined the two groups on SAMP to reduce the confusion and to hopefully encourage better police work from ALL, that's both the old ARPD and SAPD members !
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There is only 1 rank above SAPD Chief in the SAMP server ... that's ME !!
:lol:
You the man!!
Found this from a topic I made quite a long time ago now...this directly challenges those people who are saying the Community Management have changed their mind on ARPD Officers.
This clearly shows that at least since this was posted, the viewpoint on RS5 SAPD Officers has never really changed:
Dug this up from around this time last year...I believe this should be stickied and studied by SAPD members, and made clear to ARPD Officers.
Maybe to be added to the [SA:MP] Procedures topic on this board?
In particular, ARPD Officers and SAPD Officers.
I'm just looking for yes/no answers, perhaps with a little explanation here :)
1. Do SAPD Officers technically outrank ARPD Officers?
Yes
2. If yes, does this mean they can give them orders?
yes
3. Do SAPD Senior Officers outrank ARPD Officers?
yes
4. If yes, does this mean they can give them orders?
yes
5. Do FBI Agents outrank ARPD Officers?
yes
6. Does this mean they can give them orders?
yes
7. Do FBI Special Agents outrank ARPD Officers?
yes
8. Does this mean they can give them orders?
yes
9. Do FBI Agents outrank SAPD Officers?
yes
10. Does this mean they can give them orders?
yes
11. Do FBI Special Agents outrank SAPD Officers?
yes
12. Does this mean they can give them orders?
yes
13. Do FBI Agents outrank SAPD Officers?
yes
14. Does this mean they can give them orders?
yes
15. Do FBI Special Agents outrank SAPD Senior Officers?
yes
16. Does this mean they can give them orders?
yes
This has always interested me. If I could have the answers to these, then I could maybe start some kind of diagram showing the FBI/SAPD/ARPD together, so new Officers know where they stand.
Later I would add higher ranks too :D
Only looking for straight answers, I don't like possibly's and maybe's.
While the answers are straight, unfortunately they do not take in account that this is valid only within the boundaries of role play. With the sometimes questionable attitude of several players, the line between an order and non-rp behaviour is hard to tell and has to be judged by the present players.
RP order : I am FBI Agent, we need this criminal for a federal case
Non-RP order: I am FBI, freecops GTFO
RP order: Take the suspect in for investigation
Non-RP order: Leave him alone you don't know how to play cop.
Applying this into something we all understand...a diagram! Apologies that I don't know how the higher FBI/SAPD ranks line up, but it gives a good explanation of how ARPD Officers (RS5 SAPD Officers) fit into the system.
Obviously, the height in the diagram dictates who can/can't give orders...might be a bit squiff in some places, but is basically right!
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4170/tq2z.png)
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Out of my absolute curiosity and nothing more how are cop and working in RS5? I would have imagined it has changed somehow has it?
Cop bans* ipad won't let me edit my message easily
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All I can say on this topic is the following. I've been in the SAPD for a little over 2 years I've gone from Officer all the way to Captian and SWAT Command id still be there if I didnt make the choices I did in my life and take the time off to fufil my dreams. As anyone can say there is bad and good in the SAPD I've been privy to the best and worst of it. However when it comes to RS5 I can understand the reasoning behind this. If you decide to be a cop your a cop.. plain and simple Im not going to be the head of a gang and decide hey I wanna chase suspects today.. Many people complain about the lack of roleplay and how its chasing orange dots!! Well thats because you make it that, everytime im in the server I like to do traffic stops, assisting fire/medical with traffic, and just patroling pulling over and talking to a random group of people. Not that I think they are upto something bad (Not all the time) but just to be a regular cop on the streets. Back to the main point you can see a clear discrimination between Light blue names and Dark Blue names.. and if you want to fight this your wrong. I came back to the server as a freecop when I am on a call I can feel some people who do not know me from the past how they act like I am stupid or do not qualify to arrest them or give a good rp because being a "Freecop" is sometimes reffered to as being new to the server. The most suprising thing is when I see a new SAPD Officer and we are on a call and I'm trying to assist him with the planning of breaching a building or how to tactically surround suspects and he takes over the situation. Now I know for a fact I posess 100 X the expirence of that man but because my name is light blue and my rank isnt higher than his thats how it goes.
Basically all Im saying is if we have a more united police department which we will have in RS5 it will be better for roleplay. I was recently told by the Deputy Chief that the academy is not the same as it was when I was leading it. If any of you recieved training from me you know that I emphised on three things Traffic Stops, How to conduct yourself in combat, and Proper situation handeling. The fact of the matter is its more important on how you conduct yourself with the general poupulation than knowing a police code.
Overall I must agree its better to have it this way. Although the SAPD will have to do something about the Activity checks due to the fact that I know Im not the only player that can not be active for more than 8 hours a week and currently (Atleast to my knolage - Dont quote me on this) The SAPD demands more than that.
If you have a problem with how the SAPD is being lead then get yourself in a position where you can change it. Took me a year but I got there and I guarantee you that anyone of you can do it if you put your mind to it.
Sorry went way off topic but some of that just had to be said.... in my opinion hope I don't piss anyone off too badly. However if I do remember these are my views and if you dont share the same thats your right but please dont try to correct my opinion because at the end of the day thats all it is.
P.S. Sorry for spelling and grammer no time to edit this.
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As Cpt. James Bowling stated, discrimination against ARPD Officer still exists, but from all the meetings I have attended so far I can conclude that SAPD's is focused on fixing this issue, it is our priority. Without ARPD Officers it would be impossible to lower the crime statistics to where it is today, we all should be thankful for their service. Few ARPD Officers asked several questions regarding the hierarchy that exist in the police force. I want to make it clear, that SAPD is a branch of ARPD, our slogan from first and last "To Serve and Protect". ARPD Officers are our colleagues when on duty, we respect their service as much as they appreciate ours. We encourage them, train them, expect them to cooperate with us, nothing more and nothing less. However people who support this topic clearly does not understand that we are one police force, where ARPD Officers were never separated from the system, neither were SAPD. People who complain about taking orders from the SAPD higher ranks, still have to take them as ARPD Commissioner authorized it to them, as he can't be online 24/7. It's quite reasonable because without SAPD overseeing it'd create two different police police, and that is not the vision of ARPD.
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Yes, I would like to bring this case to the discussion table.
http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=31167.0
So what rules have I broken in that case?
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As long as I'm not getting copbanned for clearly ignoring SAPD regulations when everyone's clearly having fun and no one's getting upset, and it's all done for the sake of having fun, then I don't mind stepping back from my iron stance of "Noany SAPD for everyone" (even though that stance has no power anyway .. ).
There's one thing I learned from Jcs (probably unbeknownst of him) and one thing that affected my every following roleplay in a major way.
As long as everyone is having fun, as long as no one's purposefully getting hurt (not their IG character, they themselves), as long as you have some fucking awesome roleplay going on, then nothing can touch you. Police regulations, procedures, preconceptions, hell, even some server rules, all should and usually do bow down to the power of creativity, roleplay and awesomeness. And when all of these conditions have been met, you realise just how fucking awesome Argonath is.
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't expect no one to react negatively to what you're doing, quite the opposite, if they do, that only adds to it. A corrupt-ass police officer creating scenes that are just epic should get investigated by FBI, SAPD Chief, ARPD Commissioner and President himself, all at the same time if you please. But copbanning for all of this would just be too lame. If the corrupt-ass policeman manages to achieve all this, then the able parties should find alternative punishment instead. And this is what I mean when I say regulations should and usually do bow down to roleplay.
Any plans to change this in your vision of unified SAPD where it will be more obvious that we have to follow all regulations n stuff?
And I'm sorry if it seems like a bunch of rumbling, it all makes sense in my head and I'm a bit too tired to effectively get my point across. Main point is, roleplay should overrule everything else. Anyone trying to tell you otherwise should be hung off one of the flags at LSCH, 'cause that's what we're all here for. As long as the roleplay isn't causing anyone real discomfort and making anyone upset. When you manage to kill someone and have them go "Shit, that was fun", you know you got it.
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Yes, I would like to bring this case to the discussion table.
http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=31167.0
So what rules have I broken in that case?
Curious. - off-topic, but curious anyway!
First thing I'd have wanted to know is how the notifications work - do firefighters get warned of an impeding fire before police officers?
Second point - You were killed. Question would be, what is the scenario of this? A police officers priority should be life before death...so should he have opened fire when you were so close by?
Third one - Why did you interfere with this? The correct procedure is to go in for investigation, and discuss the issue like grown-ups. Not saying whether this is right or wrong, but that's the rules.
Fourth one - What's going on in the background? The two witnesses were just temp-banned...are they reliable witnesses? Maybe it's worth contacting the administrator involved with that.
Fifth one - Why is Ronald under the impression you shouldn't be at a fire situation? You had the right to be there, and declared your intentions.
Sixth one - Why would Ronald discharge a firearm at them? Were they attacking him?
Not saying you're right or wrong, as you can see some questions are raised on you, and some are raised on him ;)
P.S. Don't have to answer, just saying that's what I'd want to know.
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As long as I'm not getting copbanned for clearly ignoring SAPD regulations when everyone's clearly having fun and no one's getting upset, and it's all done for the sake of having fun, then I don't mind stepping back from my iron stance of "Noany SAPD for everyone" (even though that stance has no power anyway .. ).
There's one thing I learned from Jcs (probably unbeknownst of him) and one thing that affected my every following roleplay in a major way.
As long as everyone is having fun, as long as no one's purposefully getting hurt (not their IG character, they themselves), as long as you have some f**king awesome roleplay going on, then nothing can touch you. Police regulations, procedures, preconceptions, hell, even some server rules, all should and usually do bow down to the power of creativity, roleplay and awesomeness. And when all of these conditions have been met, you realise just how f**king awesome Argonath is.
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't expect no one to react negatively to what you're doing, quite the opposite, if they do, that only adds to it. A corrupt-ass police officer creating scenes that are just epic should get investigated by FBI, SAPD Chief, ARPD Commissioner and President himself, all at the same time if you please. But copbanning for all of this would just be too lame. If the corrupt-ass policeman manages to achieve all this, then the able parties should find alternative punishment instead. And this is what I mean when I say regulations should and usually do bow down to roleplay.
Any plans to change this in your vision of unified SAPD where it will be more obvious that we have to follow all regulations n stuff?
And I'm sorry if it seems like a bunch of rumbling, it all makes sense in my head and I'm a bit too tired to effectively get my point across. Main point is, roleplay should overrule everything else. Anyone trying to tell you otherwise should be hung off one of the flags at LSCH, 'cause that's what we're all here for. As long as the roleplay isn't causing anyone real discomfort and making anyone upset. When you manage to kill someone and have them go "Shit, that was fun", you know you got it.
Amen, can't agree more with Pingster. :) (seeya tomorrow evening, bring your beer!)
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I will.
Anyway, my hope is that the police force won't turn into a serious organisation where everyone is serious about being a police officer and everyone has to stay serious as long as they can, and honestly, please follow this guide on how to properly and seriously apprehend every single situation, because we have to be serious about being a police officer, it's serious business. If you don't want to be serious, you shouldn't be ruining the image of the rest of us, so please be serious.
Aka, just have a regulation in there somewhere that says anything along the lines of "Have some fun and relax once in a while. You don't need to be a model cop, whatever misconceptions of a model cop you may have.". I've never regretted not making it into FBI just for this reason alone. And I've always seen ARPD as something that has this unwritten, but agreed to follow by everyone, regulation. Don't change that. For crying out loud, don't change that.
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I will.
Anyway, my hope is that the police force won't turn into a serious organisation where everyone is serious about being a police officer and everyone has to stay serious as long as they can, and honestly, please follow this guide on how to properly and seriously apprehend every single situation, because we have to be serious about being a police officer, it's serious business. If you don't want to be serious, you shouldn't be ruining the image of the rest of us, so please be serious.
We won't be overly-serious, but we do wish to maintain a decent standard.
Everyone will learn to adapt to the change eventually, it's progress in the right direction in an attempt to rub out the issues that currently plague us.
This has happened to take away certain "freedom" from what you previously had, everyone can still have fun that is why we are all here isn't it?
It's us, the player's who can make a big difference we just need to work together to overcome, the image other's see cops as is something along the lines of "suspect > chase > kill" we aren't here to simply go about killing orange dots, we should be focusing on actual police work more often another issue we hope to resolve.
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As far as I am aware there is nothing that will stop SAPD officers from engaging in any kind of roleplay scenario.
To make it clear, the main essence is that when you go on duty you are expected to behave as a LEO. Now as you may know there are very large varieties of LEO's in the world, and an English bobby is very different from an American SWAT or Russian Road Police officer. You can play any of them, or be the annoying meter maid that gave you a parking ticket today.
SAPD will not have the authority to read or obtain logs and hand out punishment by them, if they wish to make a case they will have to base it on roleplay evidence of 'catching you in the act'.
When you assume the cop role all that is required is that you act like one. Nothing more, nothing less. And it would be preferred if you actually attempt to interact with people instead of typing commands and pushing the trigger button.
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I suppose a cop-ban isn't all that bad then really - if you're corrupt, expect one! If an RP cop-ban, then it's not because you've broken server rules, and you won't be judged as a community member...all in the name of RP!
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I suppose a cop-ban isn't all that bad then really - if you're corrupt, expect one!
Negative, just be a good cop when there are unknown peers and don't do dumb stuff that'll get you caught! Besides that, if you can come up with an alternative, situation appropriate punishment for the corrupt cop, even better. Nothing should be black and white in this world, just because someone is corrupt doesn't instantly mean they receive a copban :) I can think of multiple other ways to deal with a corrupt cop, depending what it is they do!
Rusty, I understand your point, of the suspects > chase > kill, and I will hardly deny that I don't do it, 'cause I do at great efficiency, and there's no point denying for almost any other cop that they don't do it. While we all know it's not a CnR server, it's foolish to think it will not happen provided we are given tools to make it happen. What we can do, however, is balance it out with police roleplay.
And no offence, patrolling and pulling over everyone, followed by near scripted conversation? Yeah, that's not going to do that, in all honesty, it's just annoying. Be spontaneous and do stuff differently, you don't need to follow some book when pulling people over, get creative. Shit gets fun, not just for you, for the other person as well. You no longer feel like you're working as a police officer, you'll feel like your damn enjoying being a police officer, and you know what? People will enjoy the new you. Pull over a person for no reason whatsoever and turn it into something COMPLETELY unrelated to ANYTHING. Heck, an hour ago I tried to arrest Nexxt and Skalleper (a cop, much less) for being gay, which led to a purging at Palomino Church, where Nexxt turned into a mexican and Skalleper got purged, and then FBI took us (Skalleper anyway, I just wouldn't leave him :P) in, but because Sauron was guiding us, they couldn't do anything because religion is protected by civil rights. I probably broke several ARPD/SAPD regulations, as well as a server rule for calling him and Nexxt gay, but that made my evening and everyone had fun.
This is what I mean when I talk about freedom of ARPD. You're not taught by some academy on how to do anything "properly", you just do it and have fun. And I'm by no means advocating breaking server rules, anyone will tell you I'm a tight arse about those, but if you're able to bend them in a way that no one is hurt and everyone has fun, I reckon you should be free to do so - I mean, that's why they are there, isn't it? To protect the players and make sure they can have fun.
Cheers Gandalf, that's the kind of thing I like to hear. If we ignore the fact that trying to roleplay SWAT without being SWAT is probably going to land you in trouble, I get the idea and love it. Promotes playing your way, instead of a taught way. You get variety over police bots.
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Arrogant son of a ..
I've been a rogue police officer before you were a white smear, don't need the lecture on confiscation of badges boy'o!
My point is that if you're corrupt, don't complain about temporarily losing your badge...its to be expected as you're CORRUPT. Correct, there are ways and means other than that, but don't expect lenient treatment...
That said, I may enjoy dishing out some alternative punishments in the months to come...
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I'd complain about it now, but not on RS5, the system Gandalf's suggesting is just the kind of thing to promote such roleplay. As long as you're smart about it, there's no way in hell you end up getting copbanned, unless you're being stalked by undercover cops :p
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Anyway, my hope is that the police force won't turn into a serious organisation where everyone is serious about being a police officer and everyone has to stay serious as long as they can, and honestly, please follow this guide on how to properly and seriously apprehend every single situation, because we have to be serious about being a police officer, it's serious business. If you don't want to be serious, you shouldn't be ruining the image of the rest of us, so please be serious.
Dare I say it.. but I hope the same...
We are here to have fun and enjoy the game, so as I put it on the entry of RS4... Stay within the decent realms of roleplay.
SAPD/ARPD is not there to control you, its there to provide a means to directed RP in the roles of law enforcement...
The regulations are there to help guide and protect you and others from stupid actions that are outside the decent realms of roleplay.