Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Huntsman on November 24, 2013, 01:03:28 pm
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Good afternoon everyone. I'm currently here to rise an issue to the global level which has been bothering me for years.
After seeing the topic "SAPD running the show in RS5", I have decided to open one myself, though discussing a different problem rather than spilling crap on SAPD...
The problem is that certain ARPD officials have decided to no longer allow unofficial ARPD divisions to prosper, by applying various sanctions to them and disallowing them to recruit SAPD personel. I see it as a discrimination and fear of competition, bu the fact is, that unofficial divisions do not give any competition at all. In fact, if an unofficial division is working better than the official force, the leaders of it could learn from it instead of trying to shut it down in all possible ways.
When I joined Argonath, I remember when unofficial divisions prospered and worked with SAPD like they were brothers. I, myself, have been leading Argonath Traffic Police, which has built itself a good name and focused on less important violations such as traffic, while allowing SAPD to focus on high risk operations. We cooperated with SAPD and FBI just fine. Then, when I reformed it into BCSD, it became a great group who kept cooperating with other law enforcement groups, since a lot of crimianls would escape to Bone County or Tiera, as these areas were big and it was hard to find the suspects there, our deputies would in seconds locate the suspects and help SAPD bringing them down, we also assisted LVPD, which at the time was expierencing an activity flaw. However, when ARPD officials started enforcing the ridicullous rule of no longer allowing SAPD members to join unofficial divisions, it has became a fuzz. IT was impossible to recruit any officers. There were a lot who would be interested in ARTP, bu they couldnt join, because most of them were SAPD applicants. In my opinion, SAPD shouldnt restrict unofficial divisions like that but instead, they should give them grounds to prosper so roleplay possibilites would expand and would allow people to join the division which suits their needs. Especially under RS5, where EVERYONE will become an SAPD Officer, such block is no longer needed. There are a lot of examples of great ARPD groups that were brought down by opressive manners: ARTP (recruitment hurt because of "SAPD CANT JOIN" rule), Five-O (Bringed down as it was seen as a competitor to SWAT), DEA (Even though I myself witnessed them breaching constitution, they still were a great group, focusing on something that SAPD didnt have interest in anymore, it was shut down and their leaders were arrested with no probable cause.. The reason for it was never released..), ESU (It had so much potential and recruited ARPD officers who wanted to roleplay, once again, brought down since it was seen as a competitor by SAPD).. I could go on and go on...
I really hope that respectable president of the United States of Argonath, ARPD Commissioner CBFasi and SAPD Chief Paul Hernandez will look into my concerns and hopefully they will lift such restrictions to ARPD groups.
Respectfully yours,
Alfred Monroe
EX. ARTP and BCSD leader
Resigned from unofficial groups due to restrictions.
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If you look at the history you will see that we have had a couple of groups that were formed as non-SAPD division which started to compete. Without exception they started to ignore SAPD ranks and instructions, creatingtheir own system to confuse players.
Once requested to remain within the limits of a single police force, in most cases this lead to a group leaving, often with a lot of noise.
Because of this, we are not exactly fond of new attempts to create competition in law enforcement.
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Could you please explain why it is adequate to have more than one police force? What are the benefits? Or maybe you could name a country in which you can just walk into your local police department and open an "unofficial police division?"
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Could you please explain why it is adequate to have more than one police force? What are the benefits? Or maybe you could name a country in which you can just walk into your local police department and open an "unofficial police division?"
Lithuania has:
Public Safety Police
Traffic Police
Criminal Investigations Police
They all are part of the police department, but they're different branches, let by different Chiefs and by one Comissioner.
Russia itself has:
DPS
VSD
GAI
Nobody's saying that the groups have to be served as official departments. Therefore why i'm using the term unofficial divisions.
If you look at the history you will see that we have had a couple of groups that were formed as non-SAPD division which started to compete. Without exception they started to ignore SAPD ranks and instructions, creatingtheir own system to confuse players.
Once requested to remain within the limits of a single police force, in most cases this lead to a group leaving, often with a lot of noise.
Because of this, we are not exactly fond of new attempts to create competition in law enforcement.
These groups would be shut down. This is the problem in Argonath - few people cause trouble - lets completely disable it instead of punishing those who did or looking for solutions to prvent that.
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Or maybe you could name a country in which you can just walk into your local police department and open an "unofficial police division?"
Lets begin with the standard mantra of this server "This isn't real life". Or maybe you could name me a country in which you can just walk into your local police department and become an officer with a gun and arresting rights? :lol:
Why an unofficial division of police force is considered as "another, unofficial police force"?
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Lets begin with the standard mantra of this server "This isn't real life". Or maybe you could name me a country in which you can just walk into your local police department and become an officer with a gun and arresting rights? :lol:
Why an unofficial division of police force is considered as "another, unofficial police force"?
I guess that's how it works with ARPD... If your division becomes better than SAPD, it's competing, therefore it's shut down.. So far I never saw anyone doing anything against SAPD, yet those groups were shut down.
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Russia itself has:
DPS
VSD
GAI
VSD is an abbreviation for an illness. GAI was renamed to GIBDD in '98; DPS is a part of GIBDD.
Or maybe you could name me a country in which you can just walk into your local police department and become an officer with a gun and arresting rights? :lol:
Russia, Estonia, some other post-soviet countries. You and me, of all people here, know it's true. :D
The problem here is not real life this or real life that.
The ARPD is an organization with clear structure. And there are certain people in charge who have the authority to open divisions. You are not one of them, but you're always free to suggest that an official division is opened; you can also get the rank required to open divisions yourself. An unofficial division is always going to have less authority than an official one, do you really need this?
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I guess that's how it works with ARPD... If your division becomes better than SAPD, it's competing, therefore it's shut down.. So far I never saw anyone doing anything against SAPD, yet those groups were shut down.
You are basing your assumption on a limited view of facts; whenever a group has been shut down from the police side, there's always been a solid reason.
SAPD has never limited competition; instead we appreciate it, since it motivates each member to show his best. Your guessing was wRONg :D
Many players have been given the responsibility to lead official divisions lately, but that may only happen once who is in charge of the whole department is sure you got what it takes to not screw up like it happened back in the days. If you are so keen to create a new and useful division, my personal tip would be to join the SAPD and work your way up the ladder - and you'll likely be given a chance too when your time will come :cowboy:
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You are basing your assumption on a limited view of facts; whenever a group has been shut down from the police side, there's always been a solid reason.
SAPD has never limited competition; instead we appreciate it, since it motivates each member to show his best. Your guessing was wRONg :D
Many players have been given the responsibility to lead official divisions lately, but that may only happen once who is in charge of the whole department is sure you got what it takes to not screw up like it happened back in the days. If you are so keen to create a new and useful division, my personal tip would be to join the SAPD and work your way up the ladder - and you'll likely be given a chance too when your time will come :cowboy:
Well that's the point. I, personally, don't want to join SAPD. And there used to be no problem with it when such sanctions were not enforced on unofficial groups. Anyone who plays here long enough would know ARTP and the roleplay it brang to the community. I was forced to close it. Why? - Recruitment not possible, since everyone is SAPD applicant and cant join.
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Well that's the point. I, personally, don't want to join SAPD. And there used to be no problem with it when such sanctions were not enforced on unofficial groups. Anyone who plays here long enough would know ARTP and the roleplay it brang to the community. I was forced to close it. Why? - Recruitment not possible, since everyone is SAPD applicant and cant join.
But why you don't want to join the SAPD? What's wrong with it?
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But why you don't want to join the SAPD? What's wrong with it?
My character traits. I'm a person who likes to express his opinion and hates hypocracy or asslicking. Usually when I see something that is wrong in my opinion, I say that is wrong, which SAPD command always fears like devil fears the cross. Due to my stubborness, so to say, I usually get accused of "shitting" and fired, even though my opinions usually are justified and constructive.. After few cases like that, I just gave up on SAPD.
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If your ARTP roleplay was really so great as you mentioned, people would prefer it over SAPD. You can't blame SAPD for not allowing people to join multiple groups at once.
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If your ARTP roleplay was really so great as you mentioned, people would prefer it over SAPD. You can't blame SAPD for not allowing people to join multiple groups at once.
As I told you before, there were a lot of people who wanted to join, but they couldn't , because SAPD didn't allow unofficial divisions to recruit their members or applicants.
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My character traits. I'm a person who likes to express his opinion and hates hypocracy or asslicking. Usually when I see something that is wrong in my opinion, I say that is wrong, which SAPD command always fears like devil fears the cross. Due to my stubborness, so to say, I usually get accused of "shitting" and fired, even though my opinions usually are justified and constructive.. After few cases like that, I just gave up on SAPD.
Lol, I am quite surprised you want to co-operate with the SAPD and not walk around killing their members. Clearly, you're not a fan. :<
Perhaps, you should start a criminal organization instead?
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Russia, Estonia, some other post-soviet countries. You and me, of all people here, know it's true. :D
Your point is invalid.
To become a police officer in Estonia you need to complete Estonian Academy of Security Sciences.
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Lol, I am quite surprised you want to co-operate with the SAPD and not walk around killing their members. Clearly, you're not a fan. :<
Perhaps, you should start a criminal organization instead?
Because I love being a police officer? Not to mention that I'm involved with police IRL as well :D
Your point is invalid.
To become a police officer in Estonia you need to complete Estonian Academy of Security Sciences.
Same in Lithuania, if you want to be a regular patrolsman, you can finish 12 grades and then go straight to the academy, but you wont be able to rank up higher than "Officer". If you want to reach higher in your career, you can finish the Law School of Mykolas Riomeris in Kaunas and then you can become either a constable, an investigator or a patrolsman.
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VSD is an abbreviation for an illness. GAI was renamed to GIBDD in '98; DPS is a part of GIBDD.
Russia, Estonia, some other post-soviet countries. You and me, of all people here, know it's true. :D
Oh you :D
Your point is invalid.
To become a police officer in Estonia you need to complete Estonian Academy of Security Sciences.
Kaitseliit.
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Your point is invalid.
To become a police officer in Estonia you need to complete Estonian Academy of Security Sciences.
Definitely not the case in fantastic towns like K-J or Narva. Let's take it to PM if you wish to discuss this further. :cop:
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As I told you before, there were a lot of people who wanted to join, but they couldn't , because SAPD didn't allow unofficial divisions to recruit their members or applicants.
Then why don't they leave SAPD and join your division? It's not worth leaving?
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Then why don't they leave SAPD and join your division? It's not worth leaving?
I'm sorry to say that, but your questions are really stupid, it appears you're replying here to show what a "smartass" you are, rather than debating something, anyways, you're representative of the criminal word, I dont even see how it concerns you.
And to answer your question - use logic - would you choose something, which offers roleplay, but no official support whatsoever, or something that gives you a dark blue name, gets rid of your "newbie" status, gives you a rank and free SMG? You can bullshit me you would "prefer RP over script support" all you want, but you'd just be lying to yourself. Before the block against unofficial groups, people could enjoy both.
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good topic,
Sincerely yours,
Ex SAPD
Ex ARTP
Ex BCSD
Current RCSD Sheriff (on hiatus)
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I'm sorry to say that, but your questions are really stupid, it appears you're replying here to show what a "smartass" you are, rather than debating something, anyways, you're representative of the criminal word, I dont even see how it concerns you.
And to answer your question - use logic - would you choose something, which offers roleplay, but no official support whatsoever, or something that gives you a dark blue name, gets rid of your "newbie" status, gives you a rank and free SMG? You can bullshit me you would "prefer RP over script support" all you want, but you'd just be lying to yourself. Before the block against unofficial groups, people could enjoy both.
Sad you have to insult in order to argumentate your statements. Since when criminal RP-ers can't discuss topics concerning police? Some sort of new rule?
As for your question - I'd choose for the one offering me most RP opportunities, which I've been doing so far and is great fun. Seemingly people prefer SAPD over your group and that's nothing you can blame them for.
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I had a grand old time in BCSD - We enjoyed a prosperous relationship with LVPD and BCPD, and SAPD members used to knowledge share...which I'd say was helpful to the SAPD!
I'd enjoy doing what I did, again. At the end of the day, that's what matters :)
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I had a grand old time in BCSD - We enjoyed a prosperous relationship with LVPD and BCPD, and SAPD members used to knowledge share...which I'd say was helpful to the SAPD!
I'd enjoy doing what I did, again. At the end of the day, that's what matters :)
speechless
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A few bad eggs put limits on everyone else.
We have had time after time police groups directly created to combat the ARPD, some event recently, refused to respond to calls including 207s simply because it was ARPD officers or those in the ARPD umbrella calling it in. We also can't forget two infamous groups from a few years ago. As Ronnel said, competition.
the point:
In order to combat crime we need a unified, established force who uses teamwork rather a competitive market of groups trying to be "#1" police group. Time after time we've been shown we cannot have unified force overall while permitting such unofficial groups.
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Or maybe you could name a country in which you can just walk into your local police department and open an "unofficial police division?"
So when it's convenient, we compare Argonath to RL, but when it's not, we yell that this isn't RL?
And in response to Teddy...
In order to combat crime, sure. What about in order to experience something new, something different, something more complicated than chasing suspects and shooting them? Yes, you can do that in SAPD, but you've got a ton of regulations on your head if you do, some of which may limit what you're trying to achieve.
RS5 seems to have that "New beginnings" thing going on quite a bit, what with likely (judging by the responses in other topics) money and estate reset, yet one thing remains, first come first serve as far as unofficial police groups turning into official ones go. Right now the only way you can get your idea an official one is to achieve high rank in SAPD and proposing a new division you might lead.
And sure, I realise that having 10 groups that won't respond to a call because they're established in Blueberry and won't move away is not a good thing, but at least cut some slack, offer some script support and relieve them of some regulations if they restrict them if you are able to propose something good, something that won't combat current police force, but will enhance it, make it better.
Cheers.
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In order to combat crime, sure. What about in order to experience something new, something different, something more complicated than chasing suspects and shooting them? Yes, you can do that in SAPD, but you've got a ton of regulations on your head if you do, some of which may limit what you're trying to achieve.
There is nothing that prevents you from trying something new, regulations are limits in which are placed to protect citizens rights and create a level of respect. If your "new experience" can't stay within those limits anyways then it wouldn't last long as an unofficial group and would be forcefully closed.
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So when it's convenient, we compare Argonath to RL, but when it's not, we yell that this isn't RL?
Who's "we?"
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Who's "we?"
The community. Why do you avoid the question?
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The community. Why do you avoid the question?
I fail to see how the community's relevant here.
The answer is no.
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So when it's convenient, we compare Argonath to RL, but when it's not, we yell that this isn't RL?
And in response to Teddy...
In order to combat crime, sure. What about in order to experience something new, something different, something more complicated than chasing suspects and shooting them? Yes, you can do that in SAPD, but you've got a ton of regulations on your head if you do, some of which may limit what you're trying to achieve.
RS5 seems to have that "New beginnings" thing going on quite a bit, what with likely (judging by the responses in other topics) money and estate reset, yet one thing remains, first come first serve as far as unofficial police groups turning into official ones go. Right now the only way you can get your idea an official one is to achieve high rank in SAPD and proposing a new division you might lead.
And sure, I realise that having 10 groups that won't respond to a call because they're established in Blueberry and won't move away is not a good thing, but at least cut some slack, offer some script support and relieve them of some regulations if they restrict them if you are able to propose something good, something that won't combat current police force, but will enhance it, make it better.
Cheers.
Seems you are yet misguided, but pretty fast on the posting. Okay then lets dig in!
First, point to me where are those tons of regulations, because in the regulations topic made by Sushi I see 3 different sections(Regulations/Protcols/Procedures). Now if I am not wrong regulations actually means only regulations, which is about 1 page long and inside there are basic regulations, that prevents SAPD going wild with the permissions they are granted up the ladder. And now you are complaining about the regulations, tomorrow you will end up on the criminal side and if we remove those regulations, you will cry your ass off how cops are allowed to do everything and they are even granted equipment to do so. Therfore I will take your opinion on this as obviously misguided and one sided. Once you look upon this problem from all sides, you can try again.
Second, during the past few years, we've had quite few groups coming and going, some gave positive input, others negative and others just spammed all kind of different groups with different name, until their creators just got bored and dropped them. But still so far for the past years, about only 30% of the groups created, actually had some aim to assist the force, by handling an area of expertise that was not handled until now by other division or the SAPD. Therfore you can't blame anybody for trying to filter those divisons and still provide them the fair chance of existance, simply giving them heads of what they should not become, which is obviously competition or simply attempting to take tasks which are simply approprite for groups with certain training.
Third, if script support is offered to every group that pops up, then anybody that wants something from the scripts will try to make a division, which will cause chaos as proven in the past.
An example even poped up here.
Sincerely yours,
Ex SAPD
Ex ARTP
Ex BCSD
Current RCSD Sheriff (on hiatus)
I had a grand old time in BCSD - We enjoyed a prosperous relationship with LVPD and BCPD, and SAPD members used to knowledge share...which I'd say was helpful to the SAPD!
I'd enjoy doing what I did, again. At the end of the day, that's what matters :)
BCSD was one of the few divisions, I admired for the approach they took and the initiative they brought in.
Sadly these days people spend more time moaning, then actually putting effort and initiative in something innovative and actually new.
I would love to see some sheriff experience coming back to SAPD at later point by the way :cop:
I'm sorry to say that, but your questions are really stupid, it appears you're replying here to show what a "smartass" you are, rather than debating something, anyways, you're representative of the criminal word, I dont even see how it concerns you.
And to answer your question - use logic - would you choose something, which offers roleplay, but no official support whatsoever, or something that gives you a dark blue name, gets rid of your "newbie" status, gives you a rank and free SMG? You can bullshit me you would "prefer RP over script support" all you want, but you'd just be lying to yourself. Before the block against unofficial groups, people could enjoy both.
I can't stop wondering, how does it come always at the end to you. Whatever involving ARPD/SAPD goes on, it always ends up with your name, but still atleast it shows you have somekind of interest in to... well something, because I still can't say wether its arguing or its actually the fun experience of the police job.
Considering all the questions, you've put in the past, I find only this one about the SMG relevant to answer, once and for all.
No offense, but SMG has been scripted weapon for officer for years and that hasn't stopped anybody from trying to be apart of any division.
Whoever found interest in to a group, they've never even thought twice about the 180 SMG bullets, they simply posted resignation and moved on.
Therfore if you actually have had anything worthy to offer to them, I really doubt anything would hold them back from joining you. Funny part is that the succseful divisions, some later on ending in a quite the bad ending, but still non of the less had a brilliant start, were always led by people who had a taste of SAPD. Which means before they actually attempted to make a division or thought about making a moaning topic long 5000 pages about SAPD, they actually gave it a try, saw what they dislike, like and how can they arrange that. And by trying I don't mean to be unable to finish the academy like you did few times, infact the people that led the succseful divisions, first made it up to Sgts/Lieutenants and once then they actually managed to make something right, simply because they took time to build somekind of picture of how things work, not to blame it on everybody around them and moan all day.
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Well that's the point. I, personally, don't want to join SAPD.
Unfortunately even unofficial groups will have no choice but to be part of the greater ARPD (or SAPD as it will be known in RS5)
I have hopes that after RS5 has stabilized and players have got used to the new way, that unofficial police groups do chance to form but under guidance and with oversight of the ARPD/SAPD system.
It would seem the groups you have talked about are not the ones that caused the biggest problems, but they did stray too far from SAPD and ended up in conflict with what was already present and official.
Any unofficial group that conflicts with the ARPD system and staff WILL just get shut down at the soonest possibility.
After problems in the past I amongst many others will not let problems get the the state they got to in the past where significant harm was caused to members of the community, some of which is still felt today.
You may not like what your seeing for the future of SAPD, but give it a chance, even I can not be certain how it will work out (I did not design it) but I am willing to give it a go and do my best to make it work.
All I ask is that you do not consider our acts as oppression but extreme caution and concern over past problems from similar sources.
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Well that's the point. I, personally, don't want to join SAPD.
Wait aren't you a SAPD applicant cause i think i saw you application there. :\
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http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=9964.0
http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=31588.msg296165#msg296165
Seriously, why the heck did you create the topic then in the first place?!
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First, point to me where are those tons of regulations, because in the regulations topic made by Sushi I see 3 different sections(Regulations/Protcols/Procedures). Now if I am not wrong regulations actually means only regulations, which is about 1 page long and inside there are basic regulations, that prevents SAPD going wild with the permissions they are granted up the ladder. And now you are complaining about the regulations, tomorrow you will end up on the criminal side and if we remove those regulations, you will cry your ass off how cops are allowed to do everything and they are even granted equipment to do so. Therfore I will take your opinion on this as obviously misguided and one sided. Once you look upon this problem from all sides, you can try again.
You missed the part where I said some of them may limit you. And I'm so sorry for not saying regulations, protocol and procedures each time, instead shortening it to regulations without having to shorten it to RPP, which not everyone would know dafuq I'm on about.
Fact is, in practice they're all the same for the most part anyway. Failure to follow them would result in punishment/being given out to regardless.
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I don't often stick my nose into these things anymore, but in this case I just couldn't help myself.
Some of my most enjoyable times, personally, were linked into the Dillimore Police Department, aye, sheriff RP. I seem to remember at the time we didn't seem to have too bad a relationship with these unofficial groups that got involved and wanted to RP with us. The whole SAPD for me was based around fun RP, and at the time I felt the only fun police RP was as a sheriff, hence why I left when DPD was shut down. At the time, unofficial groups, on the whole, actually participated in better role play than the majority of those in the official PDs.
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Even in the US, there are different branches of law enforcement.
Local, State, Federal Police
FBI
DEA
Federal Marshalls
Homeland Security (Immigration and Customs Enforcement, US Customs and Border Protection, US Coast Guard, US Immigration Enforcement, US Secret Service)
ATF
Department of Corrections
State Police
Highway Patrol
Sheriffs Department
Emergency Services Unit
Why limit players to the horizons of new RP groups just because there "are no official groups like that in Argonath"
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I'm really surprised this topic keeps popping up about unofficial groups when the answer has been give time and time again on the ARPD forums, all you need is to use the search tool.
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Even in the US, there are different branches of law enforcement.
Local, State, Federal Police
FBI
DEA
Federal Marshalls
Homeland Security (Immigration and Customs Enforcement, US Customs and Border Protection, US Coast Guard, US Immigration Enforcement, US Secret Service)
ATF
Department of Corrections
State Police
Highway Patrol
Sheriffs Department
Emergency Services Unit
Why limit players to the horizons of new RP groups just because there "are no official groups like that in Argonath"
There is no limit if people will accept roleplay. There is only a limit if a group wishes the right to kill orange dots and earn money from it.
Typical scenario for unofficial groups:
1. Does not get promoted in SAPD
2. Calls those who do get promotion asslickers and leadership corrupt
3. Gets fired for his remarks / leaves before he gets fired
4. Starts a new cool group that is 'better RP'.
5. Initiates topics about why they can not get the script support.
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http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=9964.0
http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=31588.msg296165#msg296165
Seriously, why the heck did you create the topic then in the first place?!
To rise up the issue community wide.
Wait aren't you a SAPD applicant cause i think i saw you application there. :\
Correct, but I submitted it a while ago and went very inactive ever since. I have just recently returned and only yesterday I have noticed that it isnt burried in the denial section yet, so I have decided to give it a try anyways. Still, that's not really relevant to the issue im trying to rise up here.
BCSD was one of the few divisions, I admired for the approach they took and the initiative they brought in.
Sadly these days people spend more time moaning, then actually putting effort and initiative in something innovative and actually new.
I would love to see some sheriff experience coming back to SAPD at later point by the way
Me and Ben have re-united yesterday and have been thinking of re-opening BCSD, but then we have given it second thoughts and realised that it would be difficult to get it up and running again. What made BCSD great and successful back in the day was the fact that SAPD did not restrict unofficial groups from recruiting SAPD personel, therefore a lot of people from SAPD has joined and have bringed a lot of SAPD proffesionalism to the group. Others have learned from these SAPD officers and later become an unseperable part of SAPD themselves. Ironic that me, who has founded and lead the division into the success it had, had so many tries to pass the academy,but usually got fired for shitting, and I only became an officer once, and then again got fired because I gave the chance to do so for somebody who didn't like me from the very beggining...
I can't stop wondering, how does it come always at the end to you. Whatever involving ARPD/SAPD goes on, it always ends up with your name, but still atleast it shows you have somekind of interest in to... well something, because I still can't say wether its arguing or its actually the fun experience of the police job.
I admire SAPD and what it's trying to do, but what I do not like is the ways that are being used in order to achieve its' goals and objectives. SAPD was never so restrictable as it is now, let's admit it...
Considering all the questions, you've put in the past, I find only this one about the SMG relevant to answer, once and for all.
No offense, but SMG has been scripted weapon for officer for years and that hasn't stopped anybody from trying to be apart of any division.
Whoever found interest in to a group, they've never even thought twice about the 180 SMG bullets, they simply posted resignation and moved on.
You did not really understand what I meant, or probably I might have expressed it in a manner that was difficult to understand. Anyways, what I had in mind is:
Unofficial ARPD group: Offers roleplay and is not restrictive, however it has a risk of: Shutting down any moment, being shut down by ARPD any moment, has no official support whatsoever.
Official SAPD dpt.: Offers roleplay, script support, dark blue name, but is restrictive and the SMG comes along.
IT might look stupid at first, but face it - everyone is looking for benefits, and SAPD is a lot more beneficial to them. However, when people arent forced to choose between SAPD and unofficial division (like they did in the past), they can enjoy the both.
Which means before they actually attempted to make a division or thought about making a moaning topic long 5000 pages about SAPD, they actually gave it a try, saw what they dislike, like and how can they arrange that. And by trying I don't mean to be unable to finish the academy like you did few times, infact the people that led the succseful divisions, first made it up to Sgts/Lieutenants and once then they actually managed to make something right,
The irony is that when I opened BCSD, I never have even made it past the SAPD Academy phase and I constantly got fired for attitude issues. Funny, yet how, judging from what You have said yourself, I have managed to open something that "was one of the few divisions you admired for the approach they took and the initiative they brought in. " It seems that you're trying to imply that somebody who has never been in SAPD cannot be a great officer. Now, why BCSD got successful if I never made it into the SAPD? The fact that before opening it I served as a freecop for about two years, i have studied the regulations, codes and observed the way SAPD works. You do not need to be SAPD to be expierenced, all you need is dedication. Never forget that.
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I think the beauty of being a freecop over being an officer is the freedom to do as you wish even while on duty. If you get caught, the worst that can happen is a copban, which is/should be temporary, instead of getting fired from your existing position in a group, which stays on the record forever and ever. That let's you do so much more than being an officer, that's the reason I've not regretted being fired from FBI or going inactive as SAPD Cadet. The regulations that disallow higher ranks to do as they wish off-duty reinforce that even more, and that's why I was honestly sad to hear implications that being a criminal who happens to kill someone now and then will make /duty'ing unavailable, no clue on what the system is yet, though.
You won't often see a corrupt SAPD Officer, never mind a high rank, because they wouldn't be too happy about losing months if not years of hard work, never mind public shitstorm.
I guess we'll just have to start drowning people and throwing them off cliffs, follow Aragorn's lead as Gandalf suggested. Expect fatal accident count to rise.
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The goal of starting your own group can have multiple reasons. Some start it because they want to create their own creative thing, no problem there.
The other, dark side, starts it because they want power. They want to make their own group so they can play by their rules and play bossy bossman by controlling other people. Another problem is that most groups enforce the same thing as already existing official groups. For example, DEA vs FBI. DEA was created because (some) people thought that no one was enforcing narcotics, while that is actually the FBI and SAPD (SAUD/ASID) their job.
Other groups which did not have this problem were either not enough developed or just useless.
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The goal of starting your own group can have multiple reasons. Some start it because they want to create their own creative thing, no problem there.
The other, dark side, starts it because they want power. They want to make their own group so they can play by their rules and play bossy bossman by controlling other people. Another problem is that most groups enforce the same thing as already existing official groups. For example, DEA vs FBI. DEA was created because (some) people thought that no one was enforcing narcotics, while that is actually the FBI and SAPD (SAUD/ASID) their job.
Other groups which did not have this problem were either not enough developed or just useless.
ASID did not exist when DEA was around. And by the way, you, yourself, were part of BCSD, right? Why would you say that it was undeveloped or useless since it didn't have such problem?
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After reading the whole first page and a little bit of the second I would like to express my opinion.
First of all as most of you might have notices its been about 2 years since I was a full-time officer . As I had been doing it for about half a year I got to say that I do remember many things from it. At that period I was a member of BCSD and sortly also a member of SAPD . While I was theorically part of two departments I was actually part of only one . I was part of the DPD which was an exceptional department at those times with a lot of fun and special things .
BCSD was what kept me active while being an SAPD Applicant and made me have a lot of fun and actually get ready for my SAPD carrier . AFter getting accepted and managing to get my Officer Rank I kept working on both of them . For a few months I could easily fullfill both my BCSD Captain Rank and my DPD Officer Rank .
If I was made to choose between the two departments I would be really upset and its a shame that the corrent officers have to . BCSD was recognised by the most police officers as we were pretty active covering very efficiently our area . We were abled to co-operate with all of the rest official departments without any problem .
So yeah . I do not see a single reason why police officers cannot join both official and unofficial departments? Aww and by the way , many SAPD Officers+ are part of many "SAPD Divisions" so yeah , time is not a reason .... If you want you can be part of more than 2 Divisions/Departments .
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I'm sure this was meant to be a serious topic with questions, but the last couple of pages are just making me reminisce! More of those times to come, I'm sure :cowboy:
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To rise up the issue community wide.
Correct, but I submitted it a while ago and went very inactive ever since. I have just recently returned and only yesterday I have noticed that it isnt burried in the denial section yet, so I have decided to give it a try anyways. Still, that's not really relevant to the issue im trying to rise up here.
Me and Ben have re-united yesterday and have been thinking of re-opening BCSD, but then we have given it second thoughts and realised that it would be difficult to get it up and running again. What made BCSD great and successful back in the day was the fact that SAPD did not restrict unofficial groups from recruiting SAPD personel, therefore a lot of people from SAPD has joined and have bringed a lot of SAPD proffesionalism to the group. Others have learned from these SAPD officers and later become an unseperable part of SAPD themselves. Ironic that me, who has founded and lead the division into the success it had, had so many tries to pass the academy,but usually got fired for shitting, and I only became an officer once, and then again got fired because I gave the chance to do so for somebody who didn't like me from the very beggining...
I admire SAPD and what it's trying to do, but what I do not like is the ways that are being used in order to achieve its' goals and objectives. SAPD was never so restrictable as it is now, let's admit it...
You did not really understand what I meant, or probably I might have expressed it in a manner that was difficult to understand. Anyways, what I had in mind is:
Unofficial ARPD group: Offers roleplay and is not restrictive, however it has a risk of: Shutting down any moment, being shut down by ARPD any moment, has no official support whatsoever.
Official SAPD dpt.: Offers roleplay, script support, dark blue name, but is restrictive and the SMG comes along.
IT might look stupid at first, but face it - everyone is looking for benefits, and SAPD is a lot more beneficial to them. However, when people arent forced to choose between SAPD and unofficial division (like they did in the past), they can enjoy the both.
The irony is that when I opened BCSD, I never have even made it past the SAPD Academy phase and I constantly got fired for attitude issues. Funny, yet how, judging from what You have said yourself, I have managed to open something that "was one of the few divisions you admired for the approach they took and the initiative they brought in. " It seems that you're trying to imply that somebody who has never been in SAPD cannot be a great officer. Now, why BCSD got successful if I never made it into the SAPD? The fact that before opening it I served as a freecop for about two years, i have studied the regulations, codes and observed the way SAPD works. You do not need to be SAPD to be expierenced, all you need is dedication. Never forget that.
Sadly I never managed to actually see you as apart of BCSD, maybe you were the leader, but not in my eyes back then.
And I am going to let you find the irony in your own sentence, if you look at your background history - "all you need is dedication. Never forget that."
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Sadly I never managed to actually see you as apart of BCSD, maybe you were the leader, but not in my eyes back then.
And I am going to let you find the irony in your own sentence, if you look at your background history - "all you need is dedication. Never forget that."
I was, my name was different back then. Oh, okay, let's bring up my punishment history to every argument. This is one of the reason im not very enthusiastic about SAPD...
Secondly, this is Argonath, this is not real life, you can try everything you want and find what's suitable for you. Not in your eyes? It's funny how you say that when I have opened the BCSD and rised it to where it was and what Adam did was made a coup against me and used BCSD to recruit people to some other RP server to his own faction and then abandoned it , letting Paul close it. I had no option but to resign, because Adam basically turned everyone against me (except for Ben) promising them stuff that could never be real (such as making BCSD scripted department) , to others he promised to give them a good position in some sort of SASD in a "srs rp" server.
BCSD was under my full command until I promoted Adam to Sheriff, then the mess started.. If not that mistake, who knows, maybe it still wold be up today.
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I admire SAPD and what it's trying to do, but what I do not like is the ways that are being used in order to achieve its' goals and objectives. SAPD was never so restrictable as it is now, let's admit it...
Restricted? You do realize that in RS5 everyone will be a part of the San Andreas Police Department? Not to mention that currently no one even has to apply, just ask for an interview and get accepted into one of the latest waves which are typically done on a bi-weekly basis. I believe you are thinking of the application review, accept, deny process that could be considered "restrictive" as we had many criteria required in order to be a part of the organization. Nowadays, we're more open than we have ever been, period.
If you're talking about unofficial groups, no we are not restrictive. The only thing we can not have is other groups with separate command members order other police officers via scare tactics as if they have any authority when in fact, they do not. The SAPD has never had a closed mind on the idea, nor will we ever, we just can not have any other groups who mock our daily operations with their separate chains of command that conflicts with our internal one, that is just not going to happen.
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I might add that Rytuklis was actually pretty good at this policing business from an RP perspective, exceeding that of possibly the majority of those who held an SAPD rank at the time. But generally those who want to be sheriffs in my opinion tend to be more open, flexible and fun RPers anyway.
Edit: Removed typos, touch screens are awkward!
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I might add that Rytuklis was actually pretty good at this policing business's from an RP perspective, exceeding that of possibly the majority of those who help an SAPD rank at the time. But generally those who want to be sheriffs in my opinion tend to be more open, flexible and fun RPers anyway.
I definitely agree with Julio here.
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@OP
If you look at the history you will see that we have had a couple of groups that were formed as non-SAPD division which started to compete. Without exception they started to ignore SAPD ranks and instructions, creatingtheir own system to confuse players.
Once requested to remain within the limits of a single police force, in most cases this lead to a group leaving, often with a lot of noise.
Because of this, we are not exactly fond of new attempts to create competition in law enforcement.
^^.
Blame SASD (aka ACSD) and SACS lol.
Edit: Who ninja-edited my post? C'mon, you gotta at least tell me when you edit something of mine... for all I know, you might be changing the content of my posts to make me sound like a neo-nazi!
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Ceph, there was definitely more than one ACSD - might be better if you just say SASD.
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Ceph, there was definitely more than one ACSD - might be better if you just say SASD.
Thank you. I had completely forgotten about the other ACSD incarnations.
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Guys , the whole SASD incident happened way before I even joined the community. Even after SASD unofficial groups werent so limited..
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A very common problem with a lot of unofficial groups is that they grow, and with growth, their leaders become more stubborn and begin assuming that their authority and whatnot holds higher priority over SAPD/ARPD (whatever you'd like to use, since no one can agree on which is which anymore). They further isolate themselves from everyone else, stuck inside their own little bubble, refusing to cooperate.
Though, the issue the topic addresses) will likely be dealt with in the future. Something will be done about it once RS5 gets up and rolling, I am sure... it won't happen towards the start, because we have to get the ball going first, but it won't be too long.
So when it's convenient, we compare Argonath to RL, but when it's not, we yell that this isn't RL?
New sig quote. Legendary.
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I was, my name was different back then. Oh, okay, let's bring up my punishment history to every argument. This is one of the reason im not very enthusiastic about SAPD...
Secondly, this is Argonath, this is not real life, you can try everything you want and find what's suitable for you. Not in your eyes? It's funny how you say that when I have opened the BCSD and rised it to where it was and what Adam did was made a coup against me and used BCSD to recruit people to some other RP server to his own faction and then abandoned it , letting Paul close it. I had no option but to resign, because Adam basically turned everyone against me (except for Ben) promising them stuff that could never be real (such as making BCSD scripted department) , to others he promised to give them a good position in some sort of SASD in a "srs rp" server.
BCSD was under my full command until I promoted Adam to Sheriff, then the mess started.. If not that mistake, who knows, maybe it still wold be up today.
First of all tell me a single member of BCSD that is against you . Yes it is true that we didn't like the fact that you left , still never got mad of you . You had the right to leave like everyone did . Also Adam was exceptional at his work and never worked against you ... atleast not in my eyes . And yeah it is true that he tried to get people to that other server but BCSD was almost dead in the Argonath side already ... awwh and by the way I tried that server and didn't stay .... so that you know .
If someone is turning BCSD members against you is your attitude at this post .
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First of all tell me a single member of BCSD that is against you . Yes it is true that we didn't like the fact that you left , still never got mad of you . You had the right to leave like everyone did . Also Adam was exceptional at his work and never worked against you ... atleast not in my eyes . And yeah it is true that he tried to get people to that other server but BCSD was almost dead in the Argonath side already ... awwh and by the way I tried that server and didn't stay .... so that you know .
If someone is turning BCSD members against you is your attitude at this post .
Please do not speak of something that you don't have an idea about. First of all, you have left BCSD long before this has happened. Secondly, yes, there were members that remained loyal to me, you being one of them, however, there were some people who have been blindly obeying Adam, taking him as the real owner, leader and so on. Adam was exceptional, yes, he contributed to BCSD a lot, I promoted him for a reason, but after a while he started to riot against me and he was indeed turning certain members, mostly the most influnetial ones ,to turn against me. I'm not making this up, I have only recently found it out myself, an ex BCSD member has told me that himself. In return, he promised these members a good position in some sort of a faction in another roleplay server. Some members stayed loyal to me ,for example you, Danny, Tomer, Ben and some others that I can't recall, but some of them, especially those who got fired from SAPD and got dissapointed in Argonath, followed Adam to another server and helped him take the lead from me. This was the real reason why I left BCSD, because I was forced to. Whom are against me? All these who have followed Adam to another server, just recently he has sent me screenshots of him being in one of these srs rp servers with half of the BCSD, and also some new faces, talking shit about me. Then there are people who got extremely mad because of serious demotions and punishments I issued for constantly trolling in the department, but were given their ranks back by Adam. I was trying to keep it as discipline as I could but either Adams' "kindness" or his wish to disobey my orders would result in them being back in the department. You know far from everything of what has happened, BCSD Captain Kostas..
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Well . I do admit of not really remembering when excactly I left ... I was asked to join that server though and did try it out .... If that's the true story then sorry for my last post and generally sorry for talking about things not so much related to the actual topic ... Would like to get back in touch with you though ...
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Uhm... I don't know if we should derail this topic into being about inner BCSD matters and other servers.
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New sig quote. Legendary.
Probably the first person to have a quote of mine in their signature. Uncertain how that makes me feel yet.
<3
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Probably the first person to have a quote of mine in their signature. Uncertain how that makes me feel yet.
<3
[/quote
Violated?
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You should feel violated, because I just-
Nevermind.
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You're a little dirty slut who needs to be taught a lesson. ;)
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You're a little dirty slut who needs to be taught a lesson. ;)
Catch me if you can...
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Catch me if you can...
Sure, I'm coming after you right now.
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Okay, NOW I feel violated :v:
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Okay, NOW I feel violated :v:
Man don't, it's just Leon. I mean, come on...
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Catch me if you can...
I'm sorry for being late (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=102233.0)
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Stop the off-topic please.
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LOCKED... went off topic...