Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => San Andreas - Capital Building => SA:MP - Business & Government => SA Capital Building Archive => Topic started by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 09:36:32 pm

Title: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 09:36:32 pm
 It has come to my attention that with the start of the Mayoral Elections, many people have bought property in Bone County(specifically Fort Carson) and some of them even casted their votes for a new mayor.

 We the citizens of Fort Carson and Bone County have never seen these people contribute to our town and the areas around it. Therefore we think these people should not vote and decide the future of a City that they have no experience in.

 We think it is reasonable, that in order for these elections to go properly without any election tourists and corruption, only people who have owned property in the area -before- the 1st of November 2015(A day before the start of the elections) to be allowed to vote for a mayor in this area.

Sincerely,
Concerned citizens of Bone County
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: beLTa on November 02, 2015, 09:40:16 pm
You got a big point. I can already see corruption even from the representatives of our server. I didn't expect such things from our representative. This election should be done clean, without any shit that is happening now. People have started buying houses in FC just to vote for LV candidate?

Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Salmonella on November 02, 2015, 09:43:46 pm
I've brought this up to the FBI but they told me it's out of their hands. It makes no sense to allow people that buy a property just because they've been told to vote on someone, to vote. Regardless of motives, it should be the other way round.

True inhabitants of Las Venturas should be the only allowed voters this election.

I'd also like to refer to this innitiative:

www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=113669.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=113669.0)

This shows true interest in Las Venturas, not people buying shacks just to vote and sell it the next week.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 09:44:48 pm
 It is not just about the Las Venturas area, it's about the whole State. Corruption has put it's roots deep into it and we must do our best to stop it.

We also encourage the government to take action against these people and the candidates who encourage these actions. For example:
[/quote]

Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Johan_S on November 02, 2015, 09:51:37 pm

I won't vote until things settle down seriously, what is this joke!
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Manoni on November 02, 2015, 09:53:05 pm
You got a big point. I can already see corruption even from the representatives of our server. I didn't expect such things from our representative. This election should be done clean, without any shit that is happening now. People have started buying houses in FC just to vote for LV candidate?

Whatever they do as citizens is not related to their duties as Server Leadership/Management.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: AK47 on November 02, 2015, 09:53:26 pm
I smell corruption.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Dean. on November 02, 2015, 09:53:57 pm
I've never concidered buying a house in Bone County yet. But now that you mention it, good plan!











Aand uhm, how do I vote for that other party please?




Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Celso on November 02, 2015, 09:55:29 pm
Dean come be my neighbor, we have tons of houses available for you! Also Trane lives near by so we can have some barbecues.

and here you go.
 - http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=114447.msg1798330#msg1798330 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=114447.msg1798330#msg1798330)
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Whiteman on November 02, 2015, 09:55:50 pm
Lol, this is a new player who has been working in my party for some time. Just trying to help him out on how to vote.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Dean. on November 02, 2015, 09:56:43 pm
Dean come be my neighbor, we have tons of houses available for you!

and here you go.
 - http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=114447.msg1798330#msg1798330 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=114447.msg1798330#msg1798330)

Thank you! Packing my bags and getting ready to vote for Ha--whatever his name is, seems legit!
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Johan_S on November 02, 2015, 09:57:14 pm
Lol, this is a new player who has been working in my party for some time. Just trying to help him out on how to vote.

My friend, if this works just like that, I think property admins must set some new houses around Los Santos and Las Venturas.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 09:58:01 pm
Whatever they do as citizens is not related to their duties as Server Leadership/Management.

Server Leadership/Managment, New Player or whatever. This is ridiculous and has to be stopped before these people who encourage corruption are put in official power. And Teddy, as the one who organized these elections, should look into this and take action...For the sake of fair-play and neutrality.



Lol, this is a new player who has been working in my party for some time. Just trying to help him out on how to vote.

"now vote for me" is not "you can vote for me on forums". I doubt he is allowed to vote, seeing he registered on forums less than a month ago. And one of the requirements is "* You must have been present in the state within the last 3 months."

  But that is not the whole point, it just shows how people buy property just to vote.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Bruce. on November 02, 2015, 10:01:20 pm
Okay I will sell my trailer, if you give me 50k. Kthxbai
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Martijn on November 02, 2015, 10:01:49 pm
Where did the picture go? @TheGreasyChopper
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 10:03:00 pm
Where did the picture go?


Here you go, the guy edited his post to a quote, but here's the original picture.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Manoni on November 02, 2015, 10:04:24 pm
There's corruption everywhere, politics and government itself, it's part of the roleplay. Strike back with the same weapon or deal with it.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Salmonella on November 02, 2015, 10:05:12 pm
Okay I will sell my trailer, if you give me 50k. Kthxbai

I mean, someone probably gave you 50k to buy it in the first place.

There's corruption everywhere, politics and government itself, it's part of the roleplay, strike back with the same weapon or deal with it.

Lack of backbone.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Mikal on November 02, 2015, 10:06:10 pm
What is wrong with a mayoral candidate helping homeless people get a home in order to make their lives better aswell as the city and surrounding areas itself? All mayors have the option to do so, just some are not as wealthy as others, and that is their own problem.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Johan_S on November 02, 2015, 10:07:43 pm
What is wrong with a mayoral candidate helping homeless people get a home in order to make their lives better aswell as the city and surrounding areas itself? All mayors have the option to do so, just some are not as wealthy as others, and that is their own problem.

It's all about fair play, Mikal. Trust me is not problem of wealth.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Bruce. on November 02, 2015, 10:08:36 pm
I mean, someone probably gave you 50k to buy it in the first place.
Nope, It was unowned like every other trailer in the trailer park.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 10:09:17 pm
What is wrong with a mayoral candidate helping homeless people get a home in order to make their lives better aswell as the city and surrounding areas itself? All mayors have the option to do so, just some are not as wealthy as others, and that is their own problem.

What's wrong is doing it the day elections start. And the whole topic is not about the picture. The guy probably hasn't been around for three months so his vote should not count.

If a mayor wants to help the homeless, why didn't he do it before the elections started? Why wait for the last moment?

That is not the point, the point is people who just move to areas just to vote. I doubt these people will hold onto that property for longer than a month.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Martijn on November 02, 2015, 10:09:38 pm
What is wrong with a mayoral candidate helping homeless people get a home in order to make their lives better aswell as the city and surrounding areas itself? All mayors have the option to do so, just some are not as wealthy as others, and that is their own problem.
I think it's about the way it's being offered. If you ask me, it bends a bit more towards forcing than helping.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Yasko on November 02, 2015, 10:10:12 pm
There's corruption everywhere, politics and government itself, it's part of the roleplay. Strike back with the same weapon or deal with it.
Indeed try to do riots in front of CH,etc...if you want to fight corruption.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: AK47 on November 02, 2015, 10:11:41 pm
Indeed try to do riots in front of CH,etc...if you want to fight corruption.

Yeah and get sprayed with M4 like usual
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 10:12:48 pm
Indeed try to do riots in front of CH,etc...if you want to fight corruption.

That would lead to use of Police Force, as a protest would be dispersed by the PD ASAP. As for riots, that would be just another excuse for people to DM so let's not.

And "if you want to fight corruption"? That should be everyone's aim. But sadly half of the people voting are kneedeep in corruption feces and are too used to breathing the fumes.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Bruce. on November 02, 2015, 10:15:01 pm
What's wrong is doing it the day elections start. And the whole topic is not about the picture. The guy probably hasn't been around for three months so his vote should not count.
Everything related to that will be verified and I'm pretty sure about that.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Devin on November 02, 2015, 10:42:42 pm
I can already see corruption even from the representatives of our server.

It is a roleplay deal; server staff positions have nothing to do with votes. I fail to see why you would say it's corruption from "representatives of our server" because we submit our own votes.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Khm on November 02, 2015, 10:46:11 pm
Erm, you can role-play something. :gand:
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Marcel on November 02, 2015, 10:46:43 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/x14WXqc.png)
Central Intelligence Agency


As the Agency responsible for verifiying votes and combatting voting fraud, we are pleased to announced that no irregularities have been encountered so far. If you wish to report possible voting fraud, please contact us immediately!

Signed,

Marcel de Rooy
Directorate of Intelligence
Director
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 10:47:26 pm
There is no corruption. There is tactic. We won't prohibit corruption from taking place; after all let's be practical corruption is the foundation of politics since the beginning of political structures.

Any abuse will be detected by the investigative division. If people are manipulating results by invalid properties, they will be caught and votes nulled. In terms of other forums of corruption or promotion, by all means, have at it. It's roleplay. It's also incredibly realistic.

Suck it up and deal with it buttercups.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: AK47 on November 02, 2015, 10:49:22 pm
It's the Oscars all over again lol, this is why Argonath can't have funny things
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Fruity on November 02, 2015, 10:50:42 pm
Suck it up and deal with it buttercups.

deal with it buttercups.

buttercups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwx8Voq373A
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Dennis. on November 02, 2015, 10:55:35 pm
For me, someone needs to have 1month+ with a house in SF/LS/LV... so he can vote! Not just randoom purchase and vote.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Cofiliano on November 02, 2015, 10:56:00 pm
It's all about fair play, Mikal. Trust me is not problem of wealth.
Fair play in politics. Right.

Just like in almost every country in the world, the biggest, most organized, most financed party wins the elections. Its the sad reality we all live in, but that's how politics works. Logistic, mass media and lobby decides the winner, not their ideology, program, or anything else.

If you are competitive enough, you'll have a chance, but if you're not, then all you can do, is blame the system. Yet, you can't blame anyone else except yourself if you didn't win, because you knew the rules, conditions, and how the elections are gonna be held, so you had enough time to make yourself competitive enough.

And you can't denied anyone's right to buy a house and vote. Even if someone financed him. You would be breaching both the Constitution and the Election Law.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Sawyer on November 02, 2015, 10:56:21 pm
You can't take the heat can you.  :hah:
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 10:57:05 pm
And you can't denied anyone's right to buy a house and vote. Even if someone financed him.

#Truth
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Kostas on November 02, 2015, 10:58:18 pm
Damn I feel left out. I also want to atleast taste the honey from the Jar you guys keep on passing to each other.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Dennis. on November 02, 2015, 10:59:17 pm
#Truth
No doubt.
For me, someone needs to have 1month+ with a house in SF/LS/LV... so he can vote! Not just randoom purchase and vote.
(?)
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:01:39 pm
No doubt.(?)

No way to verify when a house was purchased in RP.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Kostas on November 02, 2015, 11:04:36 pm
No way to verify when a house was purchased in RP.

That is simply hilarious. You're saying that in the USA, the government doesn't have files precisely saying when a house was built, bought, renovated w/e?
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Johan_S on November 02, 2015, 11:05:49 pm
I would like to add more effort with my opinions but I think that everything is clear for all. I hope who is responsible for removing the pictures of the "the biggest, most organized, most financed party" shows up in public with strong justifications.

Yet, I second if there's any role-play involved.

No way to verify when a house was purchased in RP.

Chat-logs. But there aren't any, since Skype cannot be moderated from HQ or CIA.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:06:36 pm
That is simply hilarious. You're saying that in the USA, the government doesn't have files precisely saying when a house was built, bought, renovated w/e?

We do in terms of development yes, but in terms of RP. No. There is no way to get that internal. We're not the USA. We're a game server.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:08:24 pm
No way to verify when a house was purchased in RP.

So you mean to tell me that we just lose our house license? We aren't given a way to prove that we own that house? Well where I live, and in most places when you buy a house you usually sign a contract which has the date on it.

There is a way to verify it, but there is no way you'll allow people going against your friends. :/
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Johan_S on November 02, 2015, 11:09:43 pm
Below is an old quote which goes around and around in argonath from years:

"So when it's convenient, we compare Argonath to RL, but when it's not, we yell that this isn't RL?"
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:10:41 pm
So you mean to tell me that we just lose our house license?

lol what. You don't even make sense buddy. Sorry, learn what you're talking about first. We're talking about verifying the date when which a property was purchased in-game. You can talk all about the theoretical RP ways of having one, but unless it was done before hand it's not possible for the CIA or any person or group to directly verify when a house was purchased.

Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Kostas on November 02, 2015, 11:12:26 pm
Look I am seriously trying to keep myself out of this. But are you saying that in this game, you can find how certain sums of money were earned in RP, and you cant find when a property was bought in RP? Please don't force me to keep on with this. You don't want this and it is clear, but don't try to give a justified reason. The idea is legit and nice, and is something that would help the CIA and the FBI and who ever is working on it, to fight that RP-Corruption.

Also this Argonath RPG SAMP. We've tried to recreate a country in here, we have presidents, mayors, police chiefs, drugs, imports, exports , medics, fire fighters, taxi dirvers, two truckers, a functioning Court Hall, lawers who even received a "licence". And being able to know when a house was bought is "too much"?

lol what. You don't even make sense buddy. Sorry, learn what you're talking about first. We're talking about verifying the date when which a property was purchased in-game. You can talk all about the theoretical RP ways of having one, but unless it was done before hand it's not possible for the CIA or any person or group to directly verify when a house was purchased.


When in the past was there an RP way to find where money came from?

@Teddy
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Cofiliano on November 02, 2015, 11:13:49 pm
Can someone tell me what picture was removed? Because I can't possibly imagine what relevance would we see in the picture? 

Everyone knew the rules of the game, way before the game started. Same goes for Dennis suggestion and Kostas comment. Where were you to propose this back when the rules on voting were announced? To start a open public debate about it?

You were no where. By not doing anything, you gave full legitimacy to those rules of elections. Now's too late for post cleverness.  And with that being said, every 'critics of the system' you bring up now, is silly.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Kostas on November 02, 2015, 11:14:52 pm
Can someone tell me what picture was removed? Because I can't possibly imagine what relevance would we see in the picture? 

Everyone knew the rules of the game, way before the game started. Same goes for Dennis suggestion and Kostas comment. Where were you to propose this back when the rules on voting were announced? To start a open public debate about it?

You were no where. By not doing anything, you gave full legitimacy to those rules of elections. Now's too late for post cleverness.

Now that's a proper point against that rule. But the whole" Oh me god, I cannot find out when you bought your house" is bullshit.

@Teddy
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:16:34 pm
lol what

We purchase house licenses, and then we lose them when we buy property. It would be logical that we receive some note to show us we own that property. The same way we can prove we own a property should be the way we know since when we own it.

Can someone tell me what picture was removed? Because I can't possibly imagine what relevance would we see in the picture? 

This picture was removed, without a proper reason given doe

(http://oi64.tinypic.com/o52qs7.jpg)
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:17:03 pm
For anyone who was offended about the picture that got removed and crying about bias... the moderator in question has been removed.

The official stance is we will permit RP corruption and political tactic. There is no reason to deny it. We permit police to RP corrupt, why would we stop it somewhere else? It's illogical.

Look I am seriously trying to keep myself out of this. But are you saying that in this game, you can find how certain sums of money were earned in RP, and you cant find when a property was bought in RP?

There is no RP way to track down money. We can track money as managers sure, but that's not RP.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Cofiliano on November 02, 2015, 11:19:22 pm
This picture was removed, without a proper reason given doe

(http://oi64.tinypic.com/o52qs7.jpg)
And? What's the problem here?

And you can't denied anyone's right to buy a house and vote. Even if someone financed him.

All legit.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:19:29 pm
We purchase house licenses, and then we lose them when we buy property. It would be logical that we receive some note to show us we own that property. The same way we can prove we own a property should be the way we know since when we own it.

and how do you verify this now? This would have to have been done since the beginning of RS5. Has it? Who would be able to verify? Nobody. No elections? Might have actually been a good idea.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Devin on November 02, 2015, 11:20:03 pm
What relevance does the purchase date of a property have to do with the elections? At this point in time there is nothing stating you must own a property for a set period of time.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: AK47 on November 02, 2015, 11:22:36 pm
What relevance does the purchase date of a property have to do with the elections? At this point in time there is nothing stating you must own a property for a set period of time.

Because certain people supporting a certain party are buying houses in some areas so they can vote?
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:23:02 pm
What relevance does the purchase date of a property have to do with the elections? At this point in time there is nothing stating you must own a property for a set period of time.

That's exactly what this topic is about. But it got derailed for some reason. We're just standing up against people buying property just to vote and then leaving it. We proposed that only people who have owned the property prior to the 1st of November be able to vote for that area so there's no "election-tourism", as people who recently moved in have no way to know what's best for the city.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:24:17 pm
That's exactly what this topic is about. But it got derailed for some reason. We're just standing up against people buying property just to vote and then leaving it. We proposed that only people who have owned the property prior to the 1st of November be able to vote for that area so there's no "election-tourism", as people who recently moved in have no way to know what's best for the city.

Again, tell me what can the CIA do entirely in RP to verify when a property was purchased. The exact in-game only procedure for doing so.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:25:39 pm
Again, tell me what can the CIA do entirely in RP to verify when a property was purchased. The exact in-game only procedure for doing so.

>person goes to vote
>brings proof of residence
>proof is a document of him owning property in said city/area
>document shows the date when the house was purchased...

It's not rocket science.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Cofiliano on November 02, 2015, 11:25:56 pm
Because certain people supporting a certain party are buying houses in some areas so they can vote?
Which isn't disallowed?

That's exactly what this topic is about. But it got derailed for some reason. We're just standing up against people buying property just to vote and then leaving it. We proposed that only people who have owned the property prior to the 1st of November be able to vote for that area so there's no "election-tourism", as people who recently moved in have no way to know what's best for the city.

Everyone knew the rules of the game, way before the game started. Same goes for Dennis suggestion and Kostas comment. Where were you to propose this back when the rules on voting were announced? To start a open public debate about it?

You were no where. By not doing anything, you gave full legitimacy to those rules of elections. Now's too late for post cleverness.  And with that being said, every 'critics of the system' you bring up now, is silly.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:26:41 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homes_for_votes_scandal

To those who think this isn't something that happens.



Had someone made these suggestions, we brought up elections, we would've considered it. We would've had time to make the scripts to support verification of purchase date. We would've setup the boundaries and set it into the rules. Now your party is losing and you need to make a big deal of it. Question is, if your party was winning... would this topic exist? Probably not.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Devin on November 02, 2015, 11:27:49 pm
Because certain people supporting a certain party are buying houses in some areas so they can vote?

People are still restricted to only have the ability to vote in a single location even if they own multiple houses.

That's exactly what this topic is about. But it got derailed for some reason. We're just standing up against people buying property just to vote and then leaving it. We proposed that only people who have owned the property prior to the 1st of November be able to vote for that area so there's no "election-tourism", as people who recently moved in have no way to know what's best for the city.

For a change like that to happen mid-way through elections would be rather nit-picking at factors previously unforeseen that may be negatively affecting a party or parties.
It would also mean HQ need to spend time looking through logs for when every single person voting purchased a property thus wasting time unnecessarily which really should be a roleplay matter not staff matter.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:28:25 pm
>person goes to vote
>brings proof of residence
>proof is a document of him owning property in said city/area
>document shows the date when the house was purchased...

It's not rocket science.

How do you know person is being honest? I can say I purchased my house 6 years ago. Doesn't make it true. You should know not everyone is honest in RP.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: eymas on November 02, 2015, 11:28:40 pm
 :lol:
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Kostas on November 02, 2015, 11:29:50 pm
There is no RP way to track down money. We can track money as managers sure, but that's not RP.

Can you bring back the topic where Mayors posted their apps please?
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: AK47 on November 02, 2015, 11:30:23 pm
Do we even need to have elections then? Just put your fucking party as winners, Im out, this is ridicoulus
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:31:45 pm
Yes Cofi, everyone sees you and your friends had the game rigged from the start and had this all planned. I couldn't give two fucks about this being set up. This topic was made to call for a change and disallow these things to happen. And I was not "nowhere" to let this happen. I'm just a citizen of Fort Carson who wishes for the best of the city. And I doubt San Fierro people would know what that is. So I propose a change in the election rules.



It would also mean HQ need to spend time looking through logs for when every single person voting purchased a property thus wasting time unnecessarily which really should be a roleplay matter not staff matter.

Just check the logs of today, see if they purchased it today or yesterday. If they did disallow them. Also, it's not "mid-way through elections", it's the first day.

Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:32:17 pm
Can you bring back the topic where Mayors posted their apps please?

was just an RP excuse to counter people cheating. No actual verification was done because it's not possible. I see now you are all talking about pure RP verification. I am talking about script-supported in-game RP verification. Sure, go ahead and ask everyone to verify purely in RP when they purchased their house. Let me know how that works out for you.

/me shows a document saying he purchased his house in 1921
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Sawyer on November 02, 2015, 11:33:15 pm
For your information, Evergreen is a newly registered player who has been hanging around with us for quite some time now. We took him under our wing - helped him get the hang of the server, taught him everything regarding RP/IC/OOC, boosted him financially to get his own properties/vehicles so he can stay excited about the server and he is still getting better and better in both English and RP level.

Now can someone tell me what's wrong with the picture and why is everyone freaking out over nothing?
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:33:58 pm
So I propose a change in the election rules.

We will more than gladly consider them for the next elections. You can't propose rules for an election in progress.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Antonio. on November 02, 2015, 11:34:51 pm
And I doubt San Fierro people would know what that is.
The same "people of San Fierro" have been trying their best to bring action in San Fierro and make San Fierro alive for years now, while you started some project in Fort Carson just 1-2 months ago and think you can criticize someone.  :app:
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Kostas on November 02, 2015, 11:38:19 pm
was just an RP excuse to counter people cheating. No actual verification was done because it's not possible. I see now you are all talking about pure RP verification. I am talking about script-supported in-game RP verification. Sure, go ahead and ask everyone to verify purely in RP when they purchased their house. Let me know how that works out for you.

/me shows a document saying he purchased his house in 1921

Oh come on... well get another RP excuse here, but this time fullfill it and dont lie about it.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:39:08 pm
The same "people of San Fierro" have been trying their best to bring action in San Fierro and make San Fierro alive for years now, while you started some project in Fort Carson just 1-2 months ago and think you can criticize someone.  :app:

I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying you're not part of the Fort Carson community and haven't contributed to it in any way, therefore I don't think you should vote for the future of the city.



But anyway, hope you're comfortable in some people's pockets lmao

lock this, ain't going anywhere
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Cofiliano on November 02, 2015, 11:40:19 pm
Yes Cofi, everyone sees you and your friends had the game rigged from the start and had this all planned. I couldn't give two fucks about this being set up. This topic was made to call for a change and disallow these things to happen. And I was not "nowhere" to let this happen. I'm just a citizen of Fort Carson who wishes for the best of the city. And I doubt San Fierro people would know what that is. So I propose a change in the election rules.
All I see is you moaning right now. No real argument that counters mine did you point out. You were no where to raise this questions once the elections rules were made.

Yes citizens of San Fierro doesn't wish the best for their city. That's why it turned from a ghost town with 3 houses, and 4 businesses, to a place where everyone wants a peace of it, and often it has more people and roleplay happening in it, then in LS.
San Fierro people doesn't wish the best for their city, they've worked hard for their city last 7 years.


But anyway, hope you're comfortable in some people's pockets lmao

Yes because we needed anyone's help to flawless win in San Fierro. With or without rival candidates.

This is the second reply in a row you're just throwing shit around.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:41:13 pm
Oh come on... well get another RP excuse here, but this time fullfill it and dont lie about it.

Then tell me what the fuck you want me to do. There is seriously nothing I can do right now to verify people's property legitimately. I don't know how dumb you need to be to NOT understand this. I cannot say it any other way. If you expect people to be honest in RP you are deeply mistaken. This is the same group of players who have 5k of weed on them and when they get RP searched they say "oh I has wallet, cash, picture of my third cousin Alice, and a pack of faggots" and nothing about drugs. There is NO way to LEGITIMATELY in RP verify a property's date of purchase.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:41:31 pm
All I see is you moaning right now. No real argument that counters mine did you point out. You were no where to raise this questions once the elections rules were made.

Yes citizens of San Fierro doesn't wish the best for their city. That's why it turned from a ghost town with 3 houses, and 4 businesses, to a place where everyone wants a peace of it, and often it has more people and roleplay happening in it, then in LS.
San Fierro people doesn't wish the best for their city, they've worked hard for their city last 7 years.

Put your glasses on, I was talking about wishing the best for Fort Carson/Las Venturas.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:42:22 pm
Then tell me what the fuck you want me to do. There is seriously nothing I can do right now to verify people's property legitimately.

 
Just check the logs of today, see if they purchased it today or yesterday. If they did disallow them. Also, it's not "mid-way through elections", it's the first day.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:43:19 pm


That isn't in RP. We're not going to spend our time as managers combing over A YEARS worth of logs to verify properties. Simply outrageous.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:45:25 pm
That isn't in RP. We're not going to spend our time as managers combing over A YEARS worth of logs to verify properties. Simply outrageous.

You put on your glasses too. It's two days worth of logs for no more than 5/6 people. RPly you get a document showing you bought the property and you bring it to the election room to prove you live there.

Non-RPly(Out of the game) - just check if the person bought the house on the 1st/2nd of November. If they did then remove their vote/don't allow them to vote.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Kostas on November 02, 2015, 11:46:06 pm
Well, It's all a matter of point of view Cofi. It's a city filled with basically two illegal groups and their friends, fighting each other in any way they can. The amount of citizens is close to zero, and the amount of even officers patrolling the streets is also close to zero. Anyway I see no reason in continuing. Excuses everywhere, atleast they are now a lil bit proper. For the record, I never claimed that this is the right time for such a rule to be added, it was the stupid reasons for it not to be added that got me furious.

Well I dont understand how DUMB you need to be to NOT understand this either. RP you have files, actually due it through your lovely admin commands, and don't you tell me those admin commands were never used in the past like that.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Cofiliano on November 02, 2015, 11:47:12 pm
Put your glasses on, I was talking about wishing the best for Fort Carson/Las Venturas.
Lol mate you're starting to deny things you wrote in your previous reply.
I don't wear glasses, I got an excellent view, this is what you said:
I'm just a citizen of Fort Carson who wishes for the best of the city. And I doubt San Fierro people would know what that is.
And you got my response on that.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:48:30 pm
I don't wear glasses, I got an excellent view, this is what you said:And you got my response on that.

"And I doubt San Fierro people woud know what -that-(The best for Fort Carson) is."


Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Salmonella on November 02, 2015, 11:48:39 pm
People are still restricted to only have the ability to vote in a single location even if they own multiple houses.

For a change like that to happen mid-way through elections would be rather nit-picking at factors previously unforeseen that may be negatively affecting a party or parties.
It would also mean HQ need to spend time looking through logs for when every single person voting purchased a property thus wasting time unnecessarily which really should be a roleplay matter not staff matter.

I expected exactly this so I decided to help you out there by registering all inhabitants of LV two weeks ago.

All SkyHawk voters bought it after this. I'll leave the arguing to someone else, it's pretty selfexplanatory.

(http://i.imgur.com/xlOnfFD.jpg)

Good game guys, good game.

I did this for the residents of LV.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Sawyer on November 02, 2015, 11:49:40 pm
This is getting out of hand. Before you start moaning more about it, I highly recommend you check SLP's topic. Where were you when we were hosting fundraisers? Where were you when we were organizing public speeches each week?

Where? I'll tell you where. Nowhere. All you did was adding "Long Live The Empire" to your profiles and signatures. You'll need better than that, my friends.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:50:11 pm
You put on your glasses too. It's two days worth of logs for no more than 5/6 people. RPly you get a document showing you bought the property and you bring it to the election room to prove you live there.

Non-RPly(Out of the game) - just check if the person bought the house on the 1st/2nd of November. If they did then remove their vote/don't allow them to vote.

Thanks I don't need glasses. Perhaps you should get yours on too. As I said, everything should be in-game. Since when is log checks in-game? Verification is something I want done in RP. This is a RP server (though people forget from time to time) and we want to encourage that in-game deal.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Salmonella on November 02, 2015, 11:50:46 pm
This is getting out of hand. Before you start moaning more about it, I highly recommend you check SLP's topic. Where were you when we were hosting fundraisers? Where were you when we were organizing public speeches each week?

Where? I'll tell you where. Nowhere. All you did was adding "Long Live The Empire" to your profiles and signatures. You'll need better than that, my friend.

Where was SkyHawk before the elections? Inactive.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Antonio. on November 02, 2015, 11:51:26 pm
Well, It's all a matter of point of view Cofi. It's a city filled with basically two illegal groups and their friends, fighting each other in any way they can. The amount of citizens is close to zero, and the amount of even officers patrolling the streets is also close to zero. Anyway I see no reason in continuing. Excuses everywhere, atleast they are now a lil bit proper. For the record, I never claimed that this is the right time for such a rule to be added, it was the stupid reasons for it not to be added that got me furious.

You need to visit SF more if that's what you really think. In my opinion a lot of the time there is more RP going on in SF than there is in LS, but most people don't realize it because they are blinded by the fact that Los Santos' "RP" is mostly new players driving around, not knowing what to do and just carkilling people, more cops on the street (this wasn't a problem in SF during RS4, but it is what it is now) and just a lot of admins and random people f**cking around at LSPD or LS Cityhall. Apart from that you also got groups and their friends doing the same thing what you mentioned regarding SF. The level of SF's RP is AT LEAST at the same level of the RP going on in LS.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:52:17 pm
I expected exactly this so I decided to help you out there by registering all inhabitants of LV two weeks ago.

All SkyHawk voters bought it after this. I'll leave the arguing to someone else, it's pretty selfexplanatory.

Good game guys, good game.

I did this for the residents of LV.

Good game. Nothing against it. As we keep saying, the elections are in progress. We cannot change the rules now. You should've suggested this when I did tell you the rules in advance. In fact, you did make some suggestions and I did listen to those. So...
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Sawyer on November 02, 2015, 11:52:59 pm
Where was SkyHawk before the elections? Inactive.
I do not recall you organizing something rather than an inactive Fort Carson topic.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Devin on November 02, 2015, 11:53:57 pm
RP you have files, actually due it through your lovely admin commands, and don't you tell me those admin commands were never used in the past like that.

Anyone that makes use of administrative commands or access for roleplay purposes leads to them being punished. So no.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Salmonella on November 02, 2015, 11:54:33 pm
Good game. Nothing against it. As we keep saying, the elections are in progress. We cannot change the rules now. You should've suggested this when I did tell you the rules in advance. In fact, you did make some suggestions and I did listen to those. So...

I did suggest this, to Arslan while you were away due to unforeseen circumstances. Ask Arslan.

I do not recall you organizing something rather than an inactive Fort Carson topic.

Uhh, the entire town is alive because of us for a few months now. I've been based in LV since before you even played on the server.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 02, 2015, 11:54:43 pm
Thanks I don't need glasses. Perhaps you should get yours on too. As I said, everything should be in-game. Since when is log checks in-game? Verification is something I want done in RP. This is a RP server (though people forget from time to time) and we want to encourage that in-game deal.

You said you won't go trough years of logs to do it. Fine, I told you. InGame you can provide with papers showing the proof of ownership of said property. And about Fort Carson, we have kept a list of people since the Fort Carson Project started, and I've been patrolling around the town myself, going trough the houses. They live right outside the PD. Your RP proof could be the cameras showing them moving in.

If it was about RP this whole conversation would be over already. But your friends don't benefit from that so you keep it going. :/

I do not recall you organizing something rather than an inactive Fort Carson topic.

That's not him/AIP. That's the Angels of Death Motorcycle Club who have nothing to do with the Imperial Party. What we have done in Fort Carson was trough the AoD. So find a better argument.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 02, 2015, 11:56:56 pm
I did suggest this, to Arslan while you were away due to unforeseen circumstances. Ask Arslan.

What is Arslan? A member of the FBI who was in charge of verification of candidates.
What am I? Lead scripter in charge of arranging all the rules for this and the entire scenario.

Let's play a game. Who should you have suggested it to?
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Cofiliano on November 02, 2015, 11:57:58 pm
Well, It's all a matter of point of view Cofi. It's a city filled with basically two illegal groups and their friends, fighting each other in any way they can. The amount of citizens is close to zero, and the amount of even officers patrolling the streets is also close to zero.
Marques, Ancelotti, Diablos, Koltsov, Sons of Anarchy, 5 different Triads, Luvinnieri, Diaz,  plus many many more small short lasting groups that didn't last unfortunately.

They were all citizens of San Fierro, including people like Indica, Mario Rinna, Patton, JayL, DHR Mike, and many more random non criminal people.

As for famous San Fierro people among law force : Pancher, Trane, Drix, and many more cops, back when SFPD was a separate division. I remember having to constantly outbid for houses with cops who moved in.

All these people were living in peace and harmony. The first real roleplays between cops and suspects were happening in San Fierro between San Fierro citizens. One in which Trane and Pancher doesnt rush in with a Buffalo on me and shot instantly, yet they come with a SFPD car to me and ask did I saw some Cofiliano guy. One in which we don't instantly shot cops on sight, yet we roleplay it out to the end without a single bullet fired.

As I understood, the reason cops aren't living anymore in San Fierro like before, is because SFPD doesn't exist anymore as a division. Which I would really like to see happen again.

 As for random civilians, that's not the problem of San Fierro, yet the problem of the entire Community, that most of the people pick either being a criminal, or a law officer, with like 10 percent exception. Yet alot of those 10 percent are actually non stop at our Bistro in Queens, chilling, roleplaying, and having fun.

"And I doubt San Fierro people woud know what -that-(The best for Fort Carson) is."
Alright then. Yet you skipped to answer my reply to your "pocket reply".
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Salmonella on November 02, 2015, 11:58:56 pm
What is Arslan? A member of the FBI who was in charge of verification of candidates.
What am I? Lead scripter in charge of arranging all the rules for this and the entire scenario.

Let's play a game. Who should you have suggested it to?

Arslan? The person closest in charge of this entire sherade after you.

I suggested to him that voters should've been residents for at least 1-2 month prior to the ANNOUNCEMENT of elections.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 03, 2015, 12:00:22 am
Marques, Ancelotti, Diablos, Koltsov, Sons of Anarchy, 5 different Triads, Luvinnieri, Diaz,  plus many many more small short lasting groups that didn't last unfortunately.

They were all citizens of San Fierro, including people like Indica, Mario Rinna, Patton, JayL, DHR Mike, and many more random non criminal people.

As for famous San Fierro people among law force : Pancher, Trane, Drix, and many more cops, back when SFPD was a separate division. I remember having to constantly outbid for houses with cops who moved in.

All these people were living in peace and harmony. The first real roleplays between cops and suspects were happening in San Fierro between San Fierro citizens. One in which Trane and Pancher doesnt rush in with a Buffalo on me and shot instantly, yet they come with a SFPD car to me and ask did I saw some Cofiliano guy. One in which we don't instantly shot cops on sight, yet we roleplay it out to the end without a single bullet fired.

As I understood, the reason cops aren't living anymore in San Fierro like before, is because SFPD doesn't exist anymore as a division. Which I would really like to see happen again.

 As for random civilians, that's not the problem of San Fierro, yet the problem of the entire Community, that most of the people pick either being a criminal, or a law officer, with like 10 percent exception.

You're talking about groups who "were", people who "were" in San Fierro. We're talking about today. Yes, San Fierro has people in it, but it's nothing like the past.

I've lived in Fierro while I was in Ancelotti and I can say that Gvardia contributed alot to the popularity of the city. But you're just derailing the topic so please, keep on topic.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 03, 2015, 12:00:25 am
But your friends don't benefit from that so you keep it going. :/

I said why I won't change it. If history is evidence, I have always been one who puts aside bias and makes the choice based on the best interest. I afterall extended the deadline so Salmonella and Player's applications for mayor would be considered valid. Tell me now, if I was in the best interest of my friends... would I have let them pass? No. Because them even running doesn't benefit my friends. Check you facts before you point fingers and accuse people of shit you don't know.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Sawyer on November 03, 2015, 12:01:10 am
I've been based in LV since before you even played on the server.
I respect that my friend, indeed, quite some time before my arrival, but what I do not get is where are the voters then?

That's not him/AIP. That's the Angels of Death Motorcycle Club who have nothing to do with the Imperial Party. What we have done in Fort Carson was trough the AoD. So find a better argument.
That's my point, he obviously wasn't much of an inspiration to the people of LV, therefore he is going down, for now.


It's the first day, start working and get voters, Jesus Christ.

Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Salmonella on November 03, 2015, 12:02:43 am
I respect that my friend, indeed, quite some time before my arrival, but what I do not get is where are the voters then?

It dunked your claim of me apparently not doing anything for Fort Carson/LV, nothing more.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 03, 2015, 12:03:02 am
the people of LV.

You mean the people who just moved into LV today*.


Anyways, I'm out cause I need sleep. Will post tomorrow if the topic is still going on.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 03, 2015, 12:03:06 am
Arslan? The person closest in charge of this entire sherade after you.

I suggested to him that voters should've been residents for at least 1-2 month prior to the ANNOUNCEMENT of elections.

Sorry this answer is incorrect. Considering you have direct contact to me and you are one of the people I pay attention to on Skype (trust me, people complaining how short that list is), you could've and should've relayed that to me and I most certainly would've discussed it with others to see if it should be a rule. But you didn't. Arslan also never communicated any of these ideas to me. So, I am sorry you didn't tell the right person.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Hevar. on November 03, 2015, 12:03:56 am
I just want to say......this is bullshit....house license cost 150k :( I guess i going be homeless forever HAHAH
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: zipp3r on November 03, 2015, 12:04:51 am
(http://www.dodaj.rs/f/25/k9/4pjkxPrq/butthurtometer.gif)
imma just leave this here lmao
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 03, 2015, 12:05:04 am
I just want to say......this is bullshit....house license cost 150k :( I guess i going be homeless forever HAHAH

On this note, we have been discussing this recently and moving forward are working on a solution that is balanced.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Cofiliano on November 03, 2015, 12:05:31 am
You're talking about groups who "were", people who "were" in San Fierro. We're talking about today. Yes, San Fierro has people in it, but it's nothing like the past.

I've lived in Fierro while I was in Ancelotti and I can say that Gvardia contributed alot to the popularity of the city. But you're just derailing the topic so please, keep on topic.
Kostas implied that the only thing contribution that made SF popular was "two illegal groups fighting each other". Hence my reply.

Can you answer my question directed to you, or  would you like to say "Alright then" if not apologies  for simply throwing shit on us?
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Rusty on November 03, 2015, 12:05:56 am
(http://www.dodaj.rs/f/25/k9/4pjkxPrq/butthurtometer.gif)
imma just leave this here lmao

That's gold. lol
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Hevar. on November 03, 2015, 12:07:27 am
On this note, we have been discussing this recently and moving forward are working on a solution that is balanced.

Good...in mean time im moving into your house untill its fixed =) I hope your house got wifi haha
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 03, 2015, 12:09:19 am
Good...in mean time im moving into your house untill its fixed =) I hope your house got wifi haha

WiFi, pool (indoor and outdoor), helipad, plenty of beds. You'll enjoy the stay :)
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Sawyer on November 03, 2015, 12:10:22 am
Good...in mean time im moving into your house untill its fixed =) I hope your house got wifi haha
Nice ice-breaking skills btw evil clown.  :hah:
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Hevar. on November 03, 2015, 12:12:15 am
WiFi, pool (indoor and outdoor), helipad, plenty of beds. You'll enjoy the stay :)

hahaaha sounds good =)
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Rei on November 03, 2015, 12:15:17 am
Good...in mean time im moving into your house untill its fixed =) I hope your house got wifi haha

doesn't matter where or what happend , you are still the old damn clown haha
<3
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: taseen11 on November 03, 2015, 12:19:34 am
Maybe instead of moaning when things aren't going in your favour, maybe you should look at why you're getting fewer votes.
Do you think your manifesto/policy appeals to normal everyday citizens? Do you think that anything you have posted is realistic or would remotely interest any citizen apart from the supporters you have?
Last time I checked every candidate had 1 million ready to use for their campaign, why doesn't the AIP use similar tactics to what the SLP has apparently done?
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Sawyer on November 03, 2015, 12:23:28 am
Maybe instead of moaning when things aren't going in your favour, maybe you should look at why you're getting fewer votes.
Do you think your manifesto/policy appeals to normal everyday citizens? Do you think that anything you have posted is realistic or would remotely interest any citizen apart from the supporters you have?
Last time I checked every candidate had 1 million ready to use for their campaign, why doesn't the AIP use similar tactics to what the SLP has apparently done?
For the win.
Title: Re: Citizens against Election-Tourism
Post by: Teddy on November 03, 2015, 12:38:06 am
Let's reach the conclusion that if I wanted purely to benefit my friends Salmonella and Player would never have been candidates in the first place. Out of generosity and best interest of the server, and being fair, I supported extending the deadline.

Let's also reach the conclusion that in the best interest of the server and being fair, that changing rules after something has started is not the best course of action. You wouldn't be happy if this was a DD and everyone was let in and then suddenly the rules were changed to only two door vehicles, and you had to leave. We must remain consistent across our ability to create and enforce rules.

I will tell you this. At our next elections we will enforce the principle that a person must own a residence for at least 20 days prior to voting. In the United States, since we're advent on using this as a reference point, you must be a registered citizen of a city in order to register as a vote. This process once you move to a city can take a couple of weeks in some cases so... this will be our simulation of it.

I did not intend to create a disadvantage over anyone. I have never been like that and I certainly am not going to start that now. I am sorry if people feel that's what this is. I assure you, it isn't. This is about consistency in judgement in order to have a base line for future choices. We will not bend on this matter right now. However as I said, we will include this in future elections. 3 months are the terms of mayors, additionally, there is the creation of senate upcoming and a Governors seat that will need filling.

This topic will now be locked as the only logical conclusion has been reached. There is nothing more we can do for this cause as of now.
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