Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: DinoKid23 on August 21, 2016, 01:13:17 am
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Hello there, I am dinokid23, and I was recently cop banned. Normally I don't make topics where I complain but the story of this one pushed me to do so.
Before I start my full argument, I would like to provide some background. I was patrolling along with user Darren_Wilson. We often enjoy roleplaying as corrupt police officers. We encountered a black Mesa occupied twice, and we decide to pull them over after another unit desired to. Soon enough, I had the idea of planting narcotics in the vehicle to raise our arrest status as well as collect bonuses for capturing suspects. I did so, and the two players eventually could not accept getting jailed and decided to make a run for it. We initiated a pursuit on them and they resisted. Their vehicle blew up, and both players died in the end through means that would take some more text to mention. After this, me and Darren_Wilson changed skins and roleplayed as female characters using female skins. Later on, as female characters using said female skins, we were called by a SAPD Lieutenant by the name @[TCL]Taseen to report to the police department in Los Santos. We headed there and was told to surrender our weapons to him. We did so but reluctantly. We were confused. He soon told us that he received word that we planted evidence in the vehicle. We were shocked (character wise) and we also somewhat disputed the issue (non character wise). We were given pictures that showed the third person perspective of the cars and lines of /me that showed I planted the evidence. There was nothing else. However, what really made me surprised was that the picture was supposedly a rear dash cam footage of me doing it. Here's the picture. Also the link to the full album: http://imgur.com/a/Qq3Rl
(http://i.imgur.com/UxNvBNC.png)
Right now, you might think, this dinokid23 officer was obviously abusing his policing powers, he deserved that suspension. Hold on, let me explain why that seems wrong in character wise (even though IC and OOC doesn't exist on Argonath so we'll call it roleplay wise).
First, a rear dash camera usually does not exist in police cars. I am not sure if Argonath Police Department cars have this. I remember a topic about the standard police car equipment being made by @Celso on the ARPD forums, so he could bring it up if those exist.
https://www.quora.com/Where-in-their-squad-cars-do-the-US-police-typically-install-cameras
However, let's say that there is one existing. The camera probably would sit behind the seats on the windshield like so:
(http://i.imgur.com/ki0MANJ.jpg)
A police car, estimated, roughly stands two meters (though this may be wrong, I just estimated with imaginary meter sticks.) Now, the vehicle behind the cruiser with the dash cam was a Mesa, which can be substituted for a Jeep Wrangler in real life. Those cars are extra tall. The car was not that far away so the field of view might be capturing more footage, but definitely not enough to capture the scene itself. Here's what a the dash cam would have seen (definitely higher up since the cruiser isn't that short)
(http://i.imgur.com/5WO0SAW.jpg)
Some might argue that the distance from the Mesa and the cruiser infront was far enough to see what I was doing in the back. If we think closer..
(http://i.imgur.com/HvjYyLJ.png)
The Mesa is too tall to see what was happening behind it.
The next issue with this copban was that the actions performed were from the male characters Darren and I were portraying. We were called up when we were portraying our female characters.
(http://i.imgur.com/ji2mV7X.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/SyL4eXO.jpg)
I do know that there is a /character system. I do not own a single one. Some might say you weren't using one so I am guilty with that female character. I didn't get a transgender operation. There is no rule that states the utilization of the /character system is required if you want to use multiple characters. I do know of a statement that is drafted onto the Argonath RPG Wiki that you just have to change your skin to play as a new character. http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?title=SA-MP_Role-playing_Guide#Being_.22Stuck.22_in_a_Character
(http://i.imgur.com/jjd5AOA.png)
However, I know that this webpage is not fully up to date with our rules. On the same token, I am not using this as one of my main arguments.
Some might even tell me to just go dispute it with the SAPD Internal Affairs. I tried. I contacted @Lionel Valdes via Skype. I claimed that there was no legitimate role play evidence to decide that I am guilty on the spot.
(http://i.imgur.com/1hAcrvK.png)
I would contact the Chief of Police @Trane but I'm aware that he is busy.
To refer back to the discussion with Lionel Valdes via Skype, he claimed that no evidence was required, and was up to a command officer.
The command officer's discretion was concluded based on the screenshot of my /me, which cannot be seen from the source, a rear dash cam footage. This also implies that a command officer could reprimand anyone at anytime, but that is a different story.
Lastly, I would like to bring up with recently updated rules that things are to be conducted in a roleplay fashion. The so called "rear end dash cam" can't possibly capture everything I have done. The copban was based on a /me and I was told that the /me itself was enough to copban me.
All players should attempt to roleplay at all times and are expected to roleplay.
This quote from the recently updated rule page demonstrates that this is to be further investigated rather jumping to a conclusion.
In conclusion, I feel that this copban was extremely unfair. I was told to bring this up to Server Management @Mister_Me @Carbon.
To sum it up and the TL;DR (but reading all of the above would clear the below sentences thoroughly):
1) No real role role play evidence to do convict me and Darren_Wilson.
2) I don't use the /character system and I was using different cop uniforms and genders to portray different characters.
3) Attempted to ask SAPD Internal Affairs leader but was told different things.
I would like to also ask several group leaders if they would have done the same.
@Jingle Do you CK someone if you see a picture of someone snitching ICly?
@jovanca Similar situation as above
@caion Do you fire someone from SDP if he was a spy and leaked false and bad information?
@Marcel Would you fire a judge if you saw a picture with a /me of them doing illegal things?
@.Matthew. Do you instantly fire someone if you saw a similiar picture or do you hold a full on investigation and once proven, strike them with a court case?
@Drix Would you have done the same?
@Community, was this cop ban justified?
There might be a little bit of salt coming from my side, okay fine. I might be overreacting. I know that I sometimes roleplay extremely bizarrely and deserve this, but this time, it was all legitimate.
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@Marcel Would you fire a judge if you saw a picture with a /me of them doing illegal things?
Completely depends on the situation and the roleplay involved. Would probably not fire someone unless they get convicted in a court of law.
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Investigation should have been issued I feel sorry that you got cop banned with the only proof being a screenshot that looks like it was grabbed from a street camera rather than a police cruiser. Clearly you are not the same cops from the traffic stop, it's a shady way to go about thing's.
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If it is of any help, I saw a notice on the SAPD forums about cameras which attach to your uniform and are autmatically recording.
Not sure how reasonable this is for RP, but such a camera would capture your actions.
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Totally unfair, using non RP information against you, and you roleplayed being another character 'female' to let your main character hide. It's totally unjustified.
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This is what's called meta-gaming. Anyone who "role-plays" and acts like he's a good role-player (specially if it's coming from the department itself) would keep in mind the meta-gaming thing. This is not the first time that happens and I'm sure it won't stop from happening in the future, unfair true but what can be done? Various individuals should either get lessons on how to role-play to stay in their positions or just remove them and put someone who's more legitimate to do the job properly.
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I didn't even plant evidence myself, I just playing dumb while Dino here was planting it. Still got copbanned regardless under that same reason.
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Inb4 topic gets locked becuz forum is for unban requests and nothing else, if you have an issue use /report id reason
Lol its clearly abuse, low sign of roleplay and this shit is nothing new. We're all used to poor RP, hydras, sapd car with fucking 10k HP, getting rekt in shootout and rehealing 10 times before die, unrealistic pursuits where you get shot and rammed the shit out of you etc.
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Did you explicitly disable your own on duty camera in a roleplay means?
I believe whenever an Officer goes on duty, it is implied a camera starts recording immediately (Referenced from the ARPD forum). You'd be caught on your own camera for sure if that was the case.
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Did you explicitly disable your own on duty camera in a roleplay means?
I believe whenever an Officer goes on duty, it is implied a camera starts recording immediately (Referenced from the ARPD forum). You'd be caught on your own camera for sure if that was the case.
He just said cruiser's daschcam man.
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Did you explicitly disable your own on duty camera in a roleplay means?
I believe whenever an Officer goes on duty, it is implied a camera starts recording immediately (Referenced from the ARPD forum). You'd be caught on your own camera for sure if that was the case.
I would obviously do so but this sort of roleplay information is never mentioned upon walking on the star that performs your duty as a police officer. This sort of information is also limited to SAPD restricted boards as far as I know. It would be forcing roleplay if this is in effect.
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He just said cruiser's daschcam man.
Indeed he did. I'm just simply pointing out that there is theoretically a video on the SAPD RP servers proving the guilt.
I would obviously do so but this sort of roleplay information is never mentioned upon walking on the star that performs your duty as a police officer. This sort of information is also limited to SAPD restricted boards as far as I know. It would be forcing roleplay if this is in effect.
It's not my position to comment on whether or not this should exist. Just merely passing on the information to you.
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Link below for your viewing pleasure :D
http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=18792.msg323291#msg323291
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Regardless, that would imply we'd actually have to attach the bodycam to a part of our uniform and during that specific situation it was never mentioned.
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Command staff doesn't need any kind of evidence to issue disciplinary actions on officers? Pfft. No wonder why people say SAPD knows nothing about roleplay, this is a joke.
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> community moans about abusing cops
> complains when corrupt cops get copbanned
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I would rather copban you for the trolling you been doing for the last weeks.
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> community moans about abusing cops
> complains when corrupt cops get copbanned
They complain about getting shot to hell and back, not about actual roleplay.
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There's a difference between acting within role-play and taking the role of an admin.
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I would rather copban you for the trolling you been doing for the last weeks.
There's a difference between acting within role-play and taking the role of an admin.
Well Command have the rights to remove someone of duty if they feel trolling on the radio, trolling in situations and just taking the piss in general of their duty, cop duty is a privilege you simply not take the piss out of having. No admin role here. Simple as Dino and Darren had been trolling for days in advance this was just the top of the iceberg.
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This is what we call complete bullshit. Under no circumstance can you see a small bag of weed unless they got a camera to record the fucking boot. He could delete the footage/turn off that "camera" on his uniform. A camera on the street? These are crap quality and would most likely be impossible to sharpen the image from that afar. Also the roleplay was high quality. This community is completely hypocritical and annoying. You guys want this but then it doesnt suit you so it cant stay. Simple:
Balance all the features dont fucking remove them. Although all these features are mostly balanced
Inb4 I get told "you inactive stfu" yeah im inactive because of this and work. Before I was on pretty much on 5hrs a day so dont pull that card on me.
All i have to say.
If TL;DR
- Community is hypocritical
- Cop ban is bullshit RP wise
- Un cop ban him he didnt deserve it.
@Mister_Me would you ban someone for a good RP and a bullshit OOC reason?
@Carbon Same question
@Teddy I'd like your opinion on this.
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Did I copban you for killing that cop at Jefferson? we can't act on a video that's not RPly obtained.
I can however copban you without investigation if you pull something in front of me or my Agents.
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> community moans about abusing cops
> complains when corrupt cops get copbanned
Not all abusive cops are corrupt, not all corrupt cops are abusive.
Not to mention that this is a matter of principle, as these two cops were suspended due to evidence obtained via metagaming. How is it fair?
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You mean pulling over someone then dancing infront of him? you deserved it seriously
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Did you explicitly disable your own on duty camera in a roleplay means?
I believe whenever an Officer goes on duty, it is implied a camera starts recording immediately (Referenced from the ARPD forum). You'd be caught on your own camera for sure if that was the case.
This, in my opinion, is the overall issue in Argonath.
Somehow, police officers have a all-seeing camera system that is magically turned on by waving their dicks around and can't be disabled. In this case, was any of the footage retrieved from the video system by roleplay means? Was the video system even able to see any abusive acts by the officers or did the officer that issued the copban simply assume it would see all?
Moreover, the fact it is "implied on the ARPD forum" is what sickens me the most. Make a message appear when going on duty but keep that shit out of the server if the only place you announce it is on your own little forum.
Lose the win-mentality and start roleplaying in a reasonable way.
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Lose the win-mentality and start roleplaying in a reasonable way.
Was approved by teddy, dino contact me ingame to sort your copban out.
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Lose the win-mentality and start roleplaying in a reasonable way.
People tend to better complain about something and make a forum topic about everything they don't like. And hard to believe people in here can loose the win mentality. It's already on a overdose level and allot of work is needed to reach the lose of the win mentality.
About the situation, you're complaining for being non RPly copbaned, tell me how did you switch from a male to a female RPly, or did you two had that surgery instantly after this happened.
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Let's be honest.
SAPD is pure bullshit currently because of the guys that are currently on top of it.
Hint: all of them are from same country
I mean seriously, they made thay camera in eye bullshit, they started powergaming the living shit out of people, I'm pretty sure you know who I am talking about.
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Hint: all of them are from same country
All SAPD Senior CMD + are from diferent countries. xD
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All SAPD Senior CMD + are from diferent countries. xD
Few of them always roll together, no idea what are their ranks but they are considered higher ranks and they are fucking SAPD up.
They have cameras inside their eyes that upload everything to SAPD pc or whatever
They drive by people on foot with M4s
They abuse armoured truck
They provoke people that they killed on public chat
They act as fucking retards on forums
They abuse everything that can be abused
They do not roleplay at all
They act as fucking retards x2
They defend each other so there's no way to report them
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All SAPD Senior CMD + are from diferent countries. xD
Ok
Well that happens when you select someone corrupt so he brings his friends and RP together killing criminals, r8 10/10.
Instead, there should be someone leading who has a good RP knowledge and not someone who spawns hydra whenever he's pissed off. Roleplay should be a priority all the time.
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Few of them always roll together, no idea what are their ranks but they are considered higher ranks and they are fucking SAPD up.
They have cameras inside their eyes that upload everything to SAPD pc or whatever
They drive by people on foot with M4s
They abuse armoured truck
They provoke people that they killed on public chat
They act as fucking retards on forums
They abuse everything that can be abused
They do not roleplay at all
They act as fucking retards x2
They defend each other so there's no way to report them
Can you PM me the name and evidence of them rulebreaking (SAPD Rules) to my PM, I'll handle it. or you can forward it to our IA or FBI's IA if you refer to any of their agents.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Ok
Well that happens when you select someone corrupt so he brings his friends and RP together killing criminals, r8 10/10.
Instead, there should be someone leading who has a good RP knowledge and not someone who spawns hydra whenever he's pissed off. Roleplay should be a priority all the time.
I agree, it's a bit hard to RP when stuff like this happens, i'm sure you understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHgrkcZ408
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daqZKg9HIWc
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SAPD would do better if actual role players were in charge. Get rid of the sad kids who only now how to keybind spam their shitty /me actions.
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This, in my opinion, is the overall issue in Argonath.
Somehow, police officers have a all-seeing camera system that is magically turned on by waving their dicks around and can't be disabled. In this case, was any of the footage retrieved from the video system by roleplay means? Was the video system even able to see any abusive acts by the officers or did the officer that issued the copban simply assume it would see all?
Moreover, the fact it is "implied on the ARPD forum" is what sickens me the most. Make a message appear when going on duty but keep that shit out of the server if the only place you announce it is on your own little forum.
Lose the win-mentality and start roleplaying in a reasonable way.
No. You don't talk to me like that. Don't place this on me when I'm simply relaying the information. I didn't encourage the implementation of a camera, I didn't implement it. I wasn't even in the SAPD when the decision was made.
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Did I copban you for killing that cop at Jefferson? we can't act on a video that's not RPly obtained.
I can however copban you without investigation if you pull something in front of me or my Agents.
You could have not copbanned none of us anyway as the evidence was completely destroyed. Who deserved a copban was the SAPD officer, that once on low hp and beaten up took out his tazer to be a sort of hero, with really poor roleplay (aka none).
If taking screenshots of a roleplay is enough to copban someone in RP it's just stupid. I'd understand if the guy was random attacking or dming on duty but this is not the case.
How did the evidence reach the upper command? By some PM? How did the snitch roleplay as taking out the footage from his multiple cameras on body and cruiser? Sending a few imgur links via PM is roleplay?
Dino even said that he might have deserved it for other stuff he has done in the past days but at least have some decency to catch him in roleplay instead of just taking screenshots and snitch to have your personal gain, i bet the guy even supports metagaming. And SAPD should really consider changing the way copbans are handed out, at least in those cases where there is actually roleplay involved and not just "pew pew episodes".
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No. You don't talk to me like that. Don't place this on me when I'm simply relaying the information. I didn't encourage the implementation of a camera, I didn't implement it. I wasn't even in the SAPD when the decision was made.
Wasn't aimed at you personally Julio. I was addressing the overall issue that exists according to me.
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Get rid of the shitty 2008 rules and implement actual corruption rules (rules that limit who can and can't RP being corrupt, what can a corrupt cop roleplay). This shit has to be done by the chief of police but we know that job's responsibility is to be as inactive as possible and nothing else.
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@Jingle Do you CK someone if you see a picture of someone snitching ICly?
Never.
> community moans about abusing cops
> complains when corrupt cops get copbanned
Does not apply here.
I would rather copban you for the trolling you been doing for the last weeks.
Well Command have the rights to remove someone of duty if they feel trolling on the radio, trolling in situations and just taking the piss in general of their duty, cop duty is a privilege you simply not take the piss out of having. No admin role here. Simple as Dino and Darren had been trolling for days in advance this was just the top of the iceberg.
They refuse to join the SAPD powerhungry bootlicker train and that makes them filthy trolls. That's interesting. You have a right not to like whatever they were doing, but that does not mean they were breaking SAPD regulations, hence why you haven't copbanned the duo until you found something good enough to charge them with, which ended up being a farce seeing how it's only an unrealistic screenshot that doesn't reveal anything but Dino's /me. If this situation happened to anyone else it would have been voided. You're free to hound whoever you like if you have nothing better to do, but do it right and in good roleplay.
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Yeah you get a camera, but if you attach it or throw it in the trunk its your choice.
And as seeing how cowardly the screens were taken, its just disgusting.
If the players who took the screen had any sense of RP they could have joined in and maybe catch the officers.
In my opinion as all actions of officers who were corrupt and skin changes were done with rp, evidence against them must be RP, they didn't use a aim bot or a some hack so you cant catch them with just RP.
Totally unfair punishments.
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I agree, it's a bit hard to RP when stuff like this happens, i'm sure you understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHgrkcZ408
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daqZKg9HIWc
Ehhhh......
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About the situation, you're complaining for being non RPly copbaned, tell me how did you switch from a male to a female RPly, or did you two had that surgery instantly after this happened.
So you need a surgery to roleplay a different character now?
I agree, it's a bit hard to RP when stuff like this happens, i'm sure you understand.
I agree with you. The porblem of roleplay is not just in SAPD, this is how things work in the server. People no longer like to roleplay.
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Bring back chief Drix.
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This is clearly cop abuse if you actually tried to arrest the suspects and get money from doing so.
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Bring back chief Drix.
Would you mind stating your problems with Chief Trane?
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Let's be honest.
SAPD is pure bullshit currently because of the guys that are currently on top of it.
Hint: all of them are from same country
I mean seriously, they made thay camera in eye bullshit, they started powergaming the living shit out of people, I'm pretty sure you know who I am talking about.
Oh please, I stand against SAPD, but in this situation everyone is overtalking...If there is a problem/mistake the right way to find the solution is:
1.Making a report
2.Finding the main problem (IN THIS CASE lack of roleplay from SAPD higher ranks, only in this case)
3.Discussing what caused the problem and finding a solution.
4.Applying the discussed changes.
5.Apology for the mistake.
(6.)Impose penalty if needed
In this case they're wrong, yes. But you can't talk about their cardinal roleplay in that way. And I can assure you that they're on top of SAPD for a reason, I've seen them roleplaying. No one is sinless.
P.S. Dinokid made a great report, well done.
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Command staff doesn't need any kind of evidence to issue disciplinary actions on officers? Pfft. No wonder why people say SAPD knows nothing about roleplay, this is a joke.
Excuse me? Who the hell are you to say people in SAPD does not know how to RP?
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Excuse me? Who the hell are you to say people in SAPD does not know how to RP?
I kinda agree with him xD
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Copban is revoked.
Few of them always roll together, no idea what are their ranks but they are considered higher ranks and they are fucking SAPD up.
They have cameras inside their eyes that upload everything to SAPD pc or whatever
They drive by people on foot with M4s
They abuse armoured truck
They provoke people that they killed on public chat
They act as fucking retards on forums
They abuse everything that can be abused
They do not roleplay at all
They act as fucking retards x2
They defend each other so there's no way to report them
I find this to be a horrible accusation as I myself have been committed to roleplaying to the best of my ability which many can agree to. I myself have just recently set up a topic about standards of roleplay and courtesy and how connecting the Department to the public is much more important than apprehending suspects. And I have never conducted myself in a bad manner on the forums or elsewhere. Due to the fact that most of my involvement in police work has been related to community policing, I honestly cannot remember the last time I was involved in a pursuit or the like. And lastly, I've never used the command truck or sought to patrol only with friends.
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(http://i.imgur.com/kEf8p8h.png)
i just wanna thank everyone for the support #dk23isfree
#snitchesgetstitches
@TrotlDebilni
In all seriousness, I would like to thank Lionel Valdes and the Command Staff of the SAPD for reconsidering. After experiencing this situation, I know that they'll be prioritizing roleplay in future situations to come.
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Start enjoying being corrupt :lol:
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This is clearly cop abuse if you actually tried to arrest the suspects and get money from doing so.
If you use some poor roleplay or do it without any roleplay, it is for sure a cop abuse; script abuse. But if you are roleplaying a corrupt cop, then this doesn't seem like an abuse.
Start enjoying being corrupt :lol:
:lol:
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In all seriousness, I would like to thank Lionel Valdes and the Command Staff of the SAPD for reconsidering. After experiencing this situation, I know that they'll be prioritizing roleplay in future situations to come.
Lionel already does, but the sentiment is nice anyway :lol:
Glad it was sorted for you.
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I'm sorry you went through this trouble of getting copbanned but I will build you a McDonald's PlayPlace near LSPD because McDonald's PlayPlaces are cool and popular and does have cool colorful and modern bouncing up and down letters in their signs maybe your police partners will love McDonald's PlayPlaces and I know most people and I love McDonald's PlayPlaces.
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I'm sorry you went through this trouble of getting copbanned but I will build you a McDonald's PlayPlace near LSPD because McDonald's PlayPlaces are cool and popular and does have cool colorful and modern bouncing up and down letters in their signs maybe your police partners will love McDonald's PlayPlaces and I know most people and I love McDonald's PlayPlaces.
I love mcdonalds too but this is too much
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@Teddy I'd like your opinion on this.
Don't bring me into this, I left this salty community for a reason. Now time to disable email notification for mentions.
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Don't bring me into this, I left this salty community for a reason. Now time to disable email notification for mentions.
!!!!!!