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My little issue, I want your opinion.

DinoKid23 · 7068

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Offline DinoKid23Topic starter

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on: August 21, 2016, 01:13:17 am
Hello there, I am dinokid23, and I was recently cop banned. Normally I don't make topics where I complain but the story of this one pushed me to do so.

Before I start my full argument, I would like to provide some background. I was patrolling along with user Darren_Wilson. We often enjoy roleplaying as corrupt police officers. We encountered a black Mesa occupied twice, and we decide to pull them over after another unit desired to. Soon enough, I had the idea of planting narcotics in the vehicle to raise our arrest status as well as collect bonuses for capturing suspects. I did so, and the two players eventually could not accept getting jailed and decided to make a run for it. We initiated a pursuit on them and they resisted. Their vehicle blew up, and both players died in the end through means that would take some more text to mention. After this, me and Darren_Wilson changed skins and roleplayed as female characters using female skins. Later on, as female characters using said female skins, we were called by a SAPD Lieutenant by the name @[TCL]Taseen to report to the police department in Los Santos. We headed there and was told to surrender our weapons to him. We did so but reluctantly. We were confused. He soon told us that he received word that we planted evidence in the vehicle. We were shocked (character wise) and we also somewhat disputed the issue (non character wise). We were given pictures that showed the third person perspective of the cars and lines of /me that showed I planted the evidence. There was nothing else. However, what really made me surprised was that the picture was supposedly a rear dash cam footage of me doing it. Here's the picture. Also the link to the full album: http://imgur.com/a/Qq3Rl


Right now, you might think, this dinokid23 officer was obviously abusing his policing powers, he deserved that suspension. Hold on, let me explain why that seems wrong in character wise (even though IC and OOC doesn't exist on Argonath so we'll call it roleplay wise).

First, a rear dash camera usually does not exist in police cars. I am not sure if Argonath Police Department cars have this. I remember a topic about the standard police car equipment being made by @Celso on the ARPD forums, so he could bring it up if those exist.
https://www.quora.com/Where-in-their-squad-cars-do-the-US-police-typically-install-cameras

However, let's say that there is one existing. The camera probably would sit behind the seats on the windshield like so:

A police car, estimated, roughly stands two meters (though this may be wrong, I just estimated with imaginary meter sticks.) Now, the vehicle behind the cruiser with the dash cam was a Mesa, which can be substituted for a Jeep Wrangler in real life. Those cars are extra tall. The car was not that far away so the field of view might be capturing more footage, but definitely not enough to capture the scene itself. Here's what a the dash cam would have seen (definitely higher up since the cruiser isn't that short)

Some might argue that the distance from the Mesa and the cruiser infront was far enough to see what I was doing in the back. If we think closer..

The Mesa is too tall to see what was happening behind it.

The next issue with this copban was that the actions performed were from the male characters Darren and I were portraying. We were called up when we were portraying our female characters.



I do know that there is a /character system. I do not own a single one. Some might say you weren't using one so I am guilty with that female character. I didn't get a transgender operation. There is no rule that states the utilization of the /character system is required if you want to use multiple characters. I do know of a statement that is drafted onto the Argonath RPG Wiki that you just have to change your skin to play as a new character. http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?title=SA-MP_Role-playing_Guide#Being_.22Stuck.22_in_a_Character

However, I know that this webpage is not fully up to date with our rules. On the same token, I am not using this as one of my main arguments.

Some might even tell me to just go dispute it with the SAPD Internal Affairs. I tried. I contacted @Lionel Valdes via Skype. I claimed that there was no legitimate role play evidence to decide that I am guilty on the spot.

I would contact the Chief of Police @Trane but I'm aware that he is busy.
To refer back to the discussion with Lionel Valdes via Skype, he claimed that no evidence was required, and was up to a command officer.
The command officer's discretion was concluded based on the screenshot of my /me, which cannot be seen from the source, a rear dash cam footage. This also implies that a command officer could reprimand anyone at anytime, but that is a different story.

Lastly, I would like to bring up with recently updated rules that things are to be conducted in a roleplay fashion. The so called "rear end dash cam" can't possibly capture everything I have done. The copban was based on a /me and I was told that the /me itself was enough to copban me.
Quote
All players should attempt to roleplay at all times and are expected to roleplay.

This quote from the recently updated rule page demonstrates that this is to be further investigated rather jumping to a conclusion.

In conclusion, I feel that this copban was extremely unfair. I was told to bring this up to Server Management @Mister_Me @Carbon.

To sum it up and the TL;DR (but reading all of the above would clear the below sentences thoroughly):
1) No real role role play evidence to do convict me and Darren_Wilson.
2) I don't use the /character system and I was using different cop uniforms and genders to portray different characters.
3) Attempted to ask SAPD Internal Affairs leader but was told different things.

I would like to also ask several group leaders if they would have done the same.
@Jingle Do you CK someone if you see a picture of someone snitching ICly?
@jovanca Similar situation as above
@caion Do you fire someone from SDP if he was a spy and leaked false and bad information?
@Marcel Would you fire a judge if you saw a picture with a /me of them doing illegal things?
@.Matthew. Do you instantly fire someone if you saw a similiar picture or do you hold a full on investigation and once proven, strike them with a court case?
@Drix Would you have done the same?
@Community, was this cop ban justified?

There might be a little bit of salt coming from my side, okay fine. I might be overreacting. I know that I sometimes roleplay extremely bizarrely and deserve this, but this time, it was all legitimate.


Offline Marcel

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Reply #1 on: August 21, 2016, 01:21:03 am
Quote
@Marcel Would you fire a judge if you saw a picture with a /me of them doing illegal things?

Completely depends on the situation and the roleplay involved. Would probably not fire someone unless they get convicted in a court of law.




Offline Rusty

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Reply #2 on: August 21, 2016, 01:25:50 am
Investigation should have been issued I feel sorry that you got cop banned with the only proof being a screenshot that looks like it was grabbed from a street camera rather than a police cruiser.  Clearly you are not the same cops from the traffic stop, it's a shady way to go about thing's.

REPLICA.


Offline Ben.

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Reply #3 on: August 21, 2016, 01:27:40 am
If it is of any help, I saw a notice on the SAPD forums about cameras which attach to your uniform and are autmatically recording.
Not sure how reasonable this is for RP, but such a camera would capture your actions.


Salt and hate won't take us anywhere.
And we do not try to be real life, as why would you ever play real life if you have one ? We play the GTA universe, and our players should try to live in the GTA world, not the real one.


Offline .James

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Reply #4 on: August 21, 2016, 01:28:09 am
Totally unfair, using non RP information against you, and you roleplayed being another character 'female' to let your main character hide. It's totally unjustified.


 B L I T Z


Offline Khm

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Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 01:36:31 am
This is what's called meta-gaming. Anyone who "role-plays" and acts like he's a good role-player (specially if it's coming from the department itself) would keep in mind the meta-gaming thing. This is not the first time that happens and I'm sure it won't stop from happening in the future, unfair true but what can be done? Various individuals should either get lessons on how to role-play to stay in their positions or just remove them and put someone who's more legitimate to do the job properly.



Offline LewisChurch

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Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 01:44:13 am
I didn't even plant evidence myself, I just playing dumb while Dino here was planting it. Still got copbanned regardless under that same reason.



Offline Jeremy.

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Reply #7 on: August 21, 2016, 01:44:41 am
Inb4 topic gets locked becuz forum is for unban requests and nothing else, if you have an issue use /report id reason

Lol its clearly abuse, low sign of roleplay and this shit is nothing new. We're all used to poor RP, hydras, sapd car with fucking 10k HP, getting rekt in shootout and rehealing 10 times before die, unrealistic pursuits where you get shot and rammed the shit out of you etc.

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Offline Julio.

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Reply #8 on: August 21, 2016, 01:45:51 am
Did you explicitly disable your own on duty camera in a roleplay means?

I believe whenever an Officer goes on duty, it is implied a camera starts recording immediately (Referenced from the ARPD forum). You'd be caught on your own camera for sure if that was the case.




Offline Khm

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Reply #9 on: August 21, 2016, 01:48:35 am
Did you explicitly disable your own on duty camera in a roleplay means?

I believe whenever an Officer goes on duty, it is implied a camera starts recording immediately (Referenced from the ARPD forum). You'd be caught on your own camera for sure if that was the case.
He just said cruiser's daschcam man.



Offline DinoKid23Topic starter

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Reply #10 on: August 21, 2016, 01:50:17 am
Did you explicitly disable your own on duty camera in a roleplay means?

I believe whenever an Officer goes on duty, it is implied a camera starts recording immediately (Referenced from the ARPD forum). You'd be caught on your own camera for sure if that was the case.

I would obviously do so but this sort of roleplay information is never mentioned   upon walking on the star that performs your duty as a police officer. This sort of information is also limited to SAPD restricted boards as far as I know. It would be forcing roleplay if this is in effect.


Offline Julio.

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Reply #11 on: August 21, 2016, 01:52:15 am
He just said cruiser's daschcam man.

Indeed he did. I'm just simply pointing out that there is theoretically a video on the SAPD RP servers proving the guilt.

I would obviously do so but this sort of roleplay information is never mentioned   upon walking on the star that performs your duty as a police officer. This sort of information is also limited to SAPD restricted boards as far as I know. It would be forcing roleplay if this is in effect.

It's not my position to comment on whether or not this should exist. Just merely passing on the information to you.



Offline Ben.

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Reply #12 on: August 21, 2016, 01:54:24 am


Salt and hate won't take us anywhere.
And we do not try to be real life, as why would you ever play real life if you have one ? We play the GTA universe, and our players should try to live in the GTA world, not the real one.


Offline LewisChurch

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Reply #13 on: August 21, 2016, 01:57:50 am
Regardless, that would imply we'd actually have to attach the bodycam to a part of our uniform and during that specific situation it was never mentioned.



Offline Manoni

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Reply #14 on: August 21, 2016, 02:01:09 am
Command staff doesn't need any kind of evidence to issue disciplinary actions on officers? Pfft. No wonder why people say SAPD knows nothing about roleplay, this is a joke.


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