Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:VC => VC:MP - Vice City Multiplayer => VC:MP General => Topic started by: krystianoo on February 24, 2017, 06:21:34 pm
-
VCPD has been dead since a week or longer by now, no members join at all - there are no freecops at all either. How are all criminals expected to take part in a minimission then, when one isn't even triggered due to the lack of police? Same with smuggles. :mad:
And please don't try to even argue over VCPD's current activity now, as it is known to everyone that VCPD is dead and shows barely, if any activity at all recently
-
You make it sound like the server is all about minimissions and smuggles only. There is other stuff you could be doing.
-
Point still stands. That's essentially making minimissions useless, or removing them - as not many were happening recently, even less will happen now.
-
So you're saying that the server basically has zero cops online for the majority of the day?
-
thats because criminals are too OP i don't want to play on the server when i know im gonna lose also the server is becoming way too much like cops vs robbers since criminals don't RP anymore
-
i don't want to play on the server when i know im gonna lose
So you refuse to play because you get rekt by criminals? Sounds like a ragequit to me.
criminals don't RP anymore
You mention about criminals though I'm pretty sure criminals are the ones roleplaying the most meanwhile VCPD chat on discord about how they "don't want to play on the server when i know im gonna lose"
-
So you're saying that the server basically has zero cops online for the majority of the day?
Yes. Maybe not majority, but whole day.
thats because criminals are too OP i don't want to play on the server when i know im gonna lose also the server is becoming way too much like cops vs robbers since criminals don't RP anymore
Since when has the police roleplayed? Whenever I try to negotiate at minimissions you just go 'we know there's no hostage we have u on thermovision!!' or 'how can he be a hostage he's /wanted'. Or someone spams grenades.
There's a lot criminal roleplay going on, you just don't get to see it cos you're a cop. And cops just join to stop smuggles/minimissions.
PD
thats because criminals are too OP i don't want to play on the server when i know im gonna lose also the server is becoming way too much like cops vs robbers since criminals don't RP anymore
Gee, I'm wondering how the server would look if the criminals had the same attitude as you are - after all, since 3.0 and the VCPD Reaper-era, all criminals knew they'd mostly lose, but still kept on trying. :bananarock:
-
Its not real RP you cant RP a hostage with an invisible guy you need to get an actual player to be a hostage kidnapped him or something also i RP all the time but when i RP crriminals just pull out a gun on shoot me using some lame command like "pulls out a gun and shoots' that is really annoying when you are not doing anything wrong
-
Its not real RP you cant RP a hostage with an invisible guy you need to get an actual player to be a hostage kidnapped him or something also i RP all the time but when i RP crriminals just pull out a gun on shoot me using some lame command like "pulls out a gun and shoots' that is really annoying when you are not doing anything wrong
B: Gee, I'm wondering how I accomplished my assignment in VCPD. (the one where I sell my DM soul)
Also, B: 'how can he be a hostage he's /wanted'
R: Well, I wouldn't really expect you to be welcome in NAR's turf when you're a cop and someone who snitched on them. Lol. Or any other gang turf, actually.
-
since 3.0 and the VCPD Reaper-era, all criminals knew they'd mostly lose, but still kept on trying.
Yet criminals are overpowered according to Silent.
-
The server balance between criminals and cops is fine.... .... ....given that either side doesn't stop playing.
When I left VCPD thinking that hey since Klaus is basically gone crims will be one down compared to cops; after all we were cleaning up EAF NAR SS VU Punjabi and god knows what other gangs, the whole thing fell apart basically. Everyone went inactive, the cops are basically just outright gone.
But fact of the matter is; neither cops nor criminals from my point of view has shown too much roleplay. Either the hostage is the guy with spaz who will eventually backstab everyone or the hostage will be killed no matter the direction of the roleplay. Then there are cops whose reputation basically screams "keep me out of hostage situations or the hostage is the one to die first" and otherwise triggerhappy cops.
Then there are ragequitters and whiners who aren't happy when things get balanced and instead run off to whine some more.
The rule change is in no way related to the amount of cops or criminals in the server. It is to avoid those situations where 4 criminals decide they want easy 11k payoff and 2 of them go cop just to proc the mission.
This is outright unfair to, well, everyone except the ones abusing the system and the rule will be made unnecessary the moment minimission changes are done.
-
The rule change is in no way related to the amount of cops or criminals in the server. It is to avoid those situations where 4 criminals decide they want easy 11k payoff and 2 of them go cop just to proc the mission.
This is outright unfair to, well, everyone except the ones abusing the system and the rule will be made unnecessary the moment minimission changes are done.
Actually, it is related. Maybe indirectly.
If the police doesn't play, then there is no way for minimissions to actually trigger, now is there? Then what are we supposed to do? Sure, we can ignore minimissions, but we're all humans. I want money, you want money, everyone wants more money.
IF the police had played daily like they used to, then this problem wouldn't arise. The amount of people going cop to proc minimission has increased drastically lately.. simply because there is no police, and as such - no minimissions trigger normally, and we have to go around that somehow. Script solution to this?
There isn't really a balanced solution - maybe make the minimissions trigger even without cops? But that's too unbalanced.. :(
Well, I guess you have this figured out in The New Minimission Salvation ( :D ) Script.
edit: and I hope the change isn't making minimissions give lesser awards when there is no vcpd online :(
-
Maybe we should have some paid incentives for cops for just being on duty.
That is, have a client side script tracking the distance a player has covered in a cop cruiser every 1440 seconds(24 minutes)
Each cop is paid $500 if the distance traveled is above 3000m(a rough journey across the whole VC). If the cop was in pursuit of a suspect(can be easily checked from the heat timer) and blocked any suspect losing at least 3 levels of heat, his gets a bonus $500. So, maximum the cop earns $1000 bonus in 24 minutes by just driving around and participating in chases.
This would encourage players to stay as cop, drive around and participate in chases.
-
Actually, it is related. Maybe indirectly.
The decision to outright ban all of this was my idea. And no. It's not even remotely linked to CnR. What Kessu said is right, earning an easy 10k off Diamond Heist? How bout no. Plus, mini mission was never intended to be abused in such a manner. We knew it was possible to go cop to trigger the mission and leave. While some players have said that I've allowed it in the past, and while I don't remember saying such a thing, if I have what I would have said would be something in the lines of "We know it is possible. We've considered banning it for script abuse but for now we just don't recommend doing it" because when I said such a thing, it wasn't every single mini-mission that was being triggered this way.
With that being said, the other reason that was not mentioned here but was also why I wanted this rule to be enforced immediately is because the new mini mission will not arrive soon. It is going to be a big step up from the current mini mission. It's going to take more time to discuss, to develop, to script, to debug, and to test. To make matters worst, I will be the only one working on this update among many others as it is primarily my idea.
I want money, you want money, everyone wants more money.
Another reason why I want the ban. You want money? How bout you earn it in a way that doesn't abuse the script? Play it the way it is meant to be. Plus, car smuggle, and ogra are still there for players to farm cash if that's what they want to do.
edit: and I hope the change isn't making minimissions give lesser awards when there is no vcpd online
The current revision of the mini mission will remain. We've rebalanced it far too many times. As for the new one, it's too early to talk about since we're still discussing it.
Maybe we should have some paid incentives for cops for just being on duty.
That is, have a client side script tracking the distance a player has covered in a cop cruiser every 1440 seconds(24 minutes)
Each cop is paid $500 if the distance traveled is above 3000m(a rough journey across the whole VC). If the cop was in pursuit of a suspect(can be easily checked from the heat timer) and blocked any suspect losing at least 3 levels of heat, his gets a bonus $500. So, maximum the cop earns $1000 bonus in 24 minutes by just driving around and participating in chases.
This would encourage players to stay as cop, drive around and participate in chases.
This isn't going to solve mini mission. Everyone would still go cop, leaving only two players so mini mission would activate while earning tons more money for doing so. It wouldn't even solve the farm-y nature of the server, which I hate and want to change.
-
Maybe we should have some paid incentives for cops for just being on duty.
Why award cops for doing nothing? Their job is to tackle crime not drive around giving sight seeing tours. The problem here is the mentality of most cops, as can be seen from Silent in this thread. They'll just quit and give up the moment they are outplayed, but when Reaper is online they all rush on duty so they can be carried and reap the rewards for it. That's all fine if Reaper is active but when he isn't the entire police force capitulates. So it's like Kessu said yeah the balance is fine given that either side doesn't stop playing, but if a side will just refuse to play if the situation doesn't favor them is a problem in mentality.
-
Cops will not start earning money for driving around.
I want money, you want money, everyone wants more money.
Do not even attempt to generalize the playerbase as if you speak for each and every single player out there. If you want to grow your e-peen with /cash you can always go pizzaboy and actually work for the cash instead of exploiting the scripts. That makes you no better than the people using vehicle hp hacks to earn a shitton of money from vehicle smuggling, but I guess by your logic that's fair too.
-
Cops will not start earning money for driving around.
Do not even attempt to generalize the playerbase as if you speak for each and every single player out there. If you want to grow your e-peen with /cash you can always go pizzaboy and actually work for the cash instead of exploiting the scripts. That makes you no better than the people using vehicle hp hacks to earn a shitton of money from vehicle smuggling, but I guess by your logic that's fair too.
If that's your view, then I have no intention of arguing further, since we're going towards the personal attack section. But as of now, criminals are the ones de facto getting punished for the lack of cops on the server. They just don't need to play and suddenly most of the action disappears, and some of the fun - now rare shootouts.. are even rarer. If not completly absent. Now you can bla-bla about the fact that criminals can roleplay shootouts, bla-bla, but with the sudden lack of cops and actions - there's some less criminals playing. And most of the ones that are playing are allied together. Unfortunately, this isn't an utopia that we play in, if you're aware of that.
E: Of course, you can also bla-bla about doing pizza job all day, but that's not the point. Not everyone has a masochist complex that he can do one job for x hours straight. Minimissions were a nice break from usual jobs, which naturally get boring after some time. And that was a good balance.
-
How will allowing the abuse of mini mission or any other script solve any of these?
-
Obviously, it won't. But there needs to be a fail-safe in the script if the police simply decides to go inactive and not give a fuck, which punishes criminals. We were used to be able to trigger minimissions ourselves, and we still sort of are - but as I said, most people want money so I don't think 2 people are going to go cop for free to trigger one now. As I said - a fail safe to prevent such a scenario from happening. The police are the ones that SHOULD be punished if they don't play, not the criminals, as it is right now.
-
There is no need for such a fail safe. If there is no cops, mini-mission/smuggle are just not suppose to happen. That was the way we have intended it and it will remain that way. On top of that, no one is getting punished for not playing as it is entirely their right to play or not to.
-
Then there simply won't be any natural action in the server since the cops have decided to go an OOC strike or whatever you'd like to call it.
thats because criminals are too OP i don't want to play on the server when i know im gonna lose also the server is becoming way too much like cops vs robbers since criminals don't RP anymore
-
Cops will not start earning money for driving around.
Don't see why tho, patrolling is 95 percent of what police work is all about isn't it?
It makes the whole thing more realistic, instead of being bounty hunters who only earn cash when they kill someone. (Yeah and jail, which not many criminals go for since they lose their weps anyway).
I don't see the reason why this shouldnt be implemented?
-
You're constantly running off topic and missing out on your point here huh? So let me ask you a question I asked not too long ago. How will allowing the abuse of mini mission or any other script solve any of these? Still not convinced? I'll give you two situations.
Situation A: There is no criminals and everyone is a cop.
Don't say it never happened because it certainly has. This was why the rewards for cops in mini missions were nerfed significantly in the first place. An overwhelming amount of cops, close to no criminals, and only a handful of civilians. Were criminals punished then? No, and neither will cops in this situation.
Situation B: We remove the whole "do not abuse mini mission restriction" rule
You still failed to convince me how this will help the situation at all. As stated in the above situation, criminals weren't punished at all for not being playing. So why should cops be punished now? How will "allowing the abuse of mini mission" be a punishment in the first place? They aren't losing anything, neither are they gaining. How will "allowing the abuse of mini mission" solve the inactivity of cops? It just plain won't.
I don't know if you actually understand what is going on. You're trying to convince us to allow the script to be abused just because cops don't play and there is one less script for you to farm. Nice try. The rule will stay until the new mini mission arrive. Until then, this is the end of this discussion.
Don't see why tho, patrolling is 95 percent of what police work is all about isn't it?
It makes the whole thing more realistic, instead of being bounty hunters who only earn cash when they kill someone. (Yeah and jail, which not many criminals go for since they lose their weps anyway).
I don't see the reason why this shouldnt be implemented?
Simple. We're awarding cops through script detection which can be unreliable as we all know by how that went with mini mission. I will only agree with this idea if and only if the rewards are being given either by high ranking VCPD officials and/or admins.
-
You're constantly running off topic and missing out on your point here huh? So let me ask you a question I asked not too long ago. How will allowing the abuse of mini mission or any other script solve any of these? Still not convinced? I'll give you two situations.
Situation A: There is no criminals and everyone is a cop.
Don't say it never happened because it certainly has. This was why the rewards for cops in mini missions were nerfed significantly in the first place. An overwhelming amount of cops, close to no criminals, and only a handful of civilians. Were criminals punished then? No, and neither will cops in this situation.
Situation B: We remove the whole "do not abuse mini mission restriction" rule
You still failed to convince me how this will help the situation at all. As stated in the above situation, criminals weren't punished at all for not being playing. So why should cops be punished now? How will "allowing the abuse of mini mission" be a punishment in the first place? They aren't losing anything, neither are they gaining. How will "allowing the abuse of mini mission" solve the inactivity of cops? It just plain won't.
I don't know if you actually understand what is going on. You're trying to convince us to allow the script to be abused just because cops don't play and there is one less script for you to farm. Nice try. The rule will stay until the new mini mission arrive. Until then, this is the end of this discussion.
How will allowing the abuse of mini mission or any other script solve any of these?
Obviously, it won't.
And this topic is about discussing a possible alternative, if any exists.
Were criminals punished then? No,
Actually, yes. You see, criminals missed out on a possible few k$ - the script punishes criminals by default, if they don't play - missing out on money, action, and such. And the minimissions were expiring without even being tried. If cops don't play, they lose nothing - simply because the people in VCPD that actually make a difference are already set - Ammu-Nation, a Tool Store, and such. They don't need any more money, plain and simple.
How will "allowing the abuse of mini mission" be a punishment in the first place? They aren't losing anything, neither are they gaining. How will "allowing the abuse of mini mission" solve the inactivity of cops? It just plain won't.
It will be a punishment because criminals will be making free money, obviously. It won't solve their inactivity (or maybe it will?), neither it is intended to - their inactivity is basically an issue of mentality - they see they're on the losing side now, so they don't play. Because Reaper is inactive for now. And for who knows how long.
You're trying to convince us to allow the script to be abused just because cops don't play
Am I? I've accepted the change, I just see it as a result of criminals doing it a lot more recently which is a result of the police being inactive. And there are 2 solutions - for the police to either be active again, or do something script wise. I guess you can call it Murphy's law - because Reaper will go back to being active at one point, just maybe not this month, maybe even not next month - but something has to be done in the meantime script-wise so this situation doesn't happen again in the future IMO, which is kind of what I'm trying to argue over here.
and there is one less script for you to farm.
I see - so what else do you want players to do, if not farm jobs, scripts? I can't earn money any other way than farming a job, or minimissions. That's how the server is designed, but I'm not complaining. It's a good balance, when minimissions actually happen. But I see some people still have problems about a player no-lifing the fucking game straight for 4 days if not more and getting 1.4 million - nerf! Nerf everything! Let's make the players have to farm 7 days for $50k!
-
And this topic is about discussing a possible alternative, if any exists.
There is no need for an alternative. Mini mission 2.0 is already in discussion. There's no point spending time and effort working on a short term fix, if it is even remotely a fix, when we are already working on the long term one.
I'm just done trying to argue with you. You're completely ignorant of the how the server is suppose to be and what the purpose of the scripts, jobs, etc are. Every single one of your argument only have you in mind. Not the server. Not the community.
-
Ok. Feel free to lock the topic then.
-
Every single one of your argument only have you in mind. Not the server. Not the community.
This.
We do not make hasty decision just because one or two players are unhappy with something. We make plans that will, in long-term, help the server a lot. Shortsighted developer shouldn't be a developer at all, one needs the ability to see the entire big picture to be able to plan ahead.
What you're saying krys, even tho' I do agree partially about the cops not playing, is short sighted. You're not taking in the bigger picture. Scripts were not nerfed because one guy farmed 1.4 million in a few days, nolife happens. Fuzzie and Tony used to nolife trucking when it rewarded $25 bucks and made a fortune like that. We're not nerfing scripts because they're too profitable, we're fixing the scripts which have natural weaknesses in them so there is as little weaknesses as possible.
That is, what ultimately can prevent this scenario from happening in the future, but nothing will make cops play if they do not want to. This was witnessed by me and Klaus for years during the reign of the old VCPD. We are trying to keep the server interesting and fair for both sides (which again, the scripts are balanced, most of player skill isn't) which makes it seem unfair to cops. Only Reaper at the moment is godly shooter in the cop side of things after I left and that's just not enough to combat the likes of Klaus, yourself, lederhos, Alarba, Tony etc on his own. Now I'm not trying to speak for Reaper saying that's the reason why he hasn't been on as much as he has been in the past.
This is, again, the same time of the year where the server is usually 5/100 at peak times because people are having exams and other sort of assignments in schools, not to mention jobs. People always take a focus on real life during this time of the year and that's what we cannot balance scripts for. Scripts are balanced for activity, not inactivity.
-
Whats the point people still abuse the script when admins are not on and no one will report because it benefits them
-
I agree with Fuzzie here. The whole minimission triggering is more or less stats padding, as minimissions were scripted to be difficult because of their large payout.
Off topic: What Silent said is pure bs, if you're playing a cop, you get infinite number of respawns, and it's very easy to earn money as a cop that way. Say there's 6 criminals robbing JS, if you manage to bring down one per respawn you've made serious cash. Personally if I was a cop, I'd be hoping to be the only one in the server because I'd get most monies.
-
Whats the point people still abuse the script when admins are not on and no one will report because it benefits them
They dare try that, they better damn well make it a good one because it'll be their last.
-
Obviously, it won't. But there needs to be a fail-safe in the script if the police simply decides to go inactive and not give a fuck
It is not the scripts job to deal with this but those within the high ranks of the VCPD. It is their job to keep up the activity of the police.
-
It is not the scripts job to deal with this but those within the high ranks of the VCPD. It is their job to keep up the activity of the police.
Naturally, but if the police doesn't play, who gets screwed over (money-wise I guess) more? The police, or the criminals?
I think we've agreed that minimission triggering is script abuse already, so I see no point in returning to it. And since well you've already said that a revision of minimissions is coming, I see no point in debating here any further.
Every single one of your argument only have you in mind. Not the server. Not the community.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV2075vV_Dw
:D
-
Naturally, but if the police doesn't play, who gets screwed over (money-wise I guess) more? The police, or the criminals?
You could see it that way, but what about the fact you can hunt ogras or car smuggle without any worry of being suspected or killed?
-
You could see it that way, but what about the fact you can hunt ogras or car smuggle without any worry of being suspected or killed?
In theory.. sure. But who worried about ogras or car smuggle when cops were playing? Let's face the reality.. not many people, if any.
-
Cops are not required for criminals to make a hefty bank. This was proven before and it will be proven again and again. If anything, lack of cops makes the server easier for criminals to earn money.
-
If anything, lack of cops makes the server easier for criminals to earn money.
Yeah, it does. I've watched the server today and witnessed criminals making easy money from minimissions once a newbie or two go on cop duty. I wonder why such an argument is being made after seeing first hand that criminals are not even being challenged at the moment.