Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Jeremy. on December 28, 2017, 01:24:12 am

Title: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Jeremy. on December 28, 2017, 01:24:12 am
Hello, before reading the following content I would like to state that this is not a certain cry topic, no grudge on anyone or stuff like that. Just a quick note: if you're planning to spread bullshit around and ruin the issue I will point out, don't post ot all or just stop reading and switch the topic. It's a personal request, anyone is feel free to post whatever they want to. I just want it to be sorted out rather than closed for being flooded with off-topic/no-sense posts. Thanks in advance.

I had some free time to spend with my friends in-game so I decided to join. I have received a message through phone to head towards 4 Dragons as soon as I can. I went there, Zhang Gvardia was gambling with some Sopranos, everything was going very very well. Meanwhile I have noticed the fact that I am suspected, I asked Djole to assist me in checking the situation outside if there is any police around. Both of us exited, we noticed 2 freecops close to the casino. We went towards them and asked them to leave the area. They didn't, they told us to surrender and we exchanged fires there. It ended up with both freecops being killed by me and Djole and we both went back inside the casino. Everything was normal, untill we got informed by Acika which was scouting for us outside the fact that people are arriving towards the entry of the casino. Here is some of Acika's scouting outside of the casino, just a few of them I could quickly find on saved chatlog:
[16:46:13] [Gvardia] Acika_Luciano(58): {FFFFFF}u have cops
[16:46:30] [Gvardia] Acika_Luciano(58): {FFFFFF}4, full AnA
[16:46:49] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): on the entrance, outside.
[16:49:08] [Gvardia] Acika_Luciano(58): {FFFFFF}6 cops
[16:49:13] [Gvardia] Acika_Luciano(58): {FFFFFF}one soprano out
[16:52:55] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): kenawa and donnie leaving in a car
[16:54:01] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): all at the truck, arming up
[16:54:30] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): reinforcement

As it can be clearly seen, we were informed by everything happening outisde. One FBI agent entered the casino, David_Knight to be more precise. He entered 3-4 times the casino showing 0 sign of roleplaying, clearly for checking how many people are inside the casino. Okay, upon his enterings Stivi Gvardia and Djole tried to interact with him, he simply said it himself that he doesn't wish to roleplay and he pressed H when he was aimed with a gun on his head which is considered as avoiding roleplay.

Quote
[16:47:03] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:47:07] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:11] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:47:13] David_Knight(39) says: Hi
[16:47:13] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:17] David_Knight(39) says: We don't want a shootout
[16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then

It's clear that he has been approached and he had to comply, he had to roleplay with people surrounding him with weapons. But no, he rather decided to leave the casino by pressing H and clearly ddn't co-operate. He could get his hands up, roleplaying as our hostage and creating a very nice and unique roleplaying scene there. There were hundreds of posibilities he could give to us to roleplay but he avoided it entirely. Forgot to mention the fact that whilst his enterings he suspected people which were inside the casino for aiding.

People who were playing inside the casino apart from us left it and we came to the conclusion that we have to exit and fight for our lives. We had no other chance, we prior killed 2 cops and we're wanted for murdering. Cops wouldn't rush inside telling us Merry Christmas. As I said, prior to FBI coming, a few minutes before we murdered two cops. We let our guests which came to play free to go, we didn't involve them in anyway. We all went out and the shootout with cops started. We obviously won, almost all of them got killed. We also almost lost people too but cops were outnumbered. There was a CLEAR shootout going there, nobody said anything regarding it and they all shot back once they saw us leaving the building. We even got sniped, the shootout lasted a while. In conclusion we won the shootout and after 30 minutes of investigation by [TCL]Younes, he considered that what we did was pure deathmatching and he warned only _Gvardia members, including the fact that there were also tagless people which were together with us. I'm not pointing out anything, I'm just telling how things went.

A few minutes ago, we had another talk with Younes regarding the same scene yet 0 willings to comprehend our sayings. Now, why did I create this topic? I want to hear what community thinks about this or anything similar they attended, to be more specific in those cases when the staff team comes out with rules which we never heard of yet we're expected to obey. I don't have anything with obeying the rules but as long as they aren't made publicly it is harder for all of us to understand what administrators are trying to explain. I might have rulebreaked in my 8 years of presence here, but who didn't? Now this is the case where I clearly didn't do anything wrong and probably my group was the last scenario which could end up being punished. I'm pointing this out because, just as a community we can fix the holes and our gameplay and joy couldn't be disturbed by something like this. I have done more than enough for this community, I have been around trying to help by keeping a group active when the playerbase was 5 to 10 and most of the current admins didn't even register. It's a shameful situation which I didn't meet in many years. Yet here I am, trying to find a solution.

This is the recent talk with Younes:
[23:31:38] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: So we all gathered at 4 dragons casino, I got myself a message from Djole.
[23:31:49] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: We were all there. I noticed that I was already a suspect.
[23:32:06] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: After I arrived, me and Djole went out to check if there is any police outside.
[23:32:11] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: This is PRIOR to FBI and otehrs showing up.
[23:32:21] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: So this is the first interaction of us with cops.
[23:32:27] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Me and Djole went towards the 2 freecops.
[23:32:36] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: We told them to leave.
[23:32:45] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: They didn't, they took cover and told us to surrender.
[23:32:57] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: So it was pretty obvious we were inside.
[23:33:18] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: ALSO.
[23:33:26] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: We had Acika_Luciano scouting for us.
[23:33:36] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: He was telling us over the radio regarding who is passing by
[23:33:40] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Who is leaving the casino
[23:33:42] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: And so on.
[23:33:54] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: We were basically informed by anything, especially cops coming there.
[23:34:10] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: We knew they are getting regrouped outside and we were 2 suspects inside.
[23:34:14] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Me and Djole.
[23:34:27] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: + anyone else if David or what was his name
[23:34:31] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: suspected the people inside.
[23:34:55] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: That FBI agent entered casino like 3 times
[23:35:07] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Boys walked towards him, tried to interact. He completely refused.
[23:35:14] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: He left the casino by pressing H immediately.
[23:35:28] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: According to Khm, which is a Senior Administrator. Leaving the building like that
[23:35:31] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: so dont tell me i am moaning
[23:35:32] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Is considered as
[23:35:36] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Ignoring roleplay
[23:36:14] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} How did he completely refuse to roleplay, David Knight?
[23:36:19] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Stiven obviously tried to interact with him, even his shout Halt
[23:36:26] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Is a way he tried to interact, Stivi.
[23:36:30] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: So it's considered as roleplay.
[23:36:42] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: I don't know what Djole did, it's his personal mistake or not
[23:36:47] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: But he didn't knife him.
[23:36:49] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: i was aiming a gun at him
[23:36:49] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} The rolepaly isn't just "HALT" and him leaving building
[23:36:53] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} You were supposed to take it further.
[23:36:56] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: No, I WAS AIMING A GUN
[23:37:04] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} That wasn't a proepr roleplay.
[23:37:05] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: [16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[23:37:22] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} Cops don't say I died by djole then djole is bad, they say the whole scenario isn't done properly.
[23:37:36] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: There can't be a "proper roleplay" if he presses H on the first approacing.
[23:37:37] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} As you're elder there, you were supposed to guide your friend Djole but once again it's not what I punished for
[23:37:38] PM to Kenawa_Soprano(52): po qe kte rast skishim faj me verte 
[23:37:56] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} There can't be a proper roleplay if I'm having a knife behind my neck and probably are getting knifed (yet you press H to exit the building to avoid getting being killed maybe? or avoid roleplay, gg m8)
[23:38:01] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: He had to comply. We wouldn't kill him. INSTEAD, we would create a hostage situation.
[23:38:38] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} Right. So you say that no proper roleplay was established between both parties?
[23:38:49] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} Why did you guys then decide to rush outside and shoot the cops knowing it's just a DM fest?
[23:39:16] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Acika informed us in radio that they are regrouping and having weapons in their hands.
[23:39:19] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} You don't expect people to just stand and follow your instructions while they can simply leave becaus
[23:39:24] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} people aren't roleplaying properly
[23:39:26] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: So they werent coming in to wish us Merry Christmas.
[23:39:33] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: we were masked, guns out
[23:39:35] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: aiming at them
[23:39:36] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: They even set up barricades, which we were aware of.
[23:39:39] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} You need to either convince them with roelplay or  they'll use other ways, and David's was alright.
[23:39:47] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: no, he refused to RP
[23:39:49] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: ignored RP
[23:39:51] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: David's roleplay was avoiding roleplay.
[23:39:53] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} How did he refuse to RP?
[23:39:57] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: I repeat, Khm stated it yesterday.
[23:39:59] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: Ughm, he said "no rp"?
[23:40:07] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} David PMed me and Khm saying you guys are refusing to roleplay, at that moment I started observing
[23:40:08] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Yeah he stated it himself.
[23:40:08] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Yeah he stated it himself.
[23:40:11] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} the situation by Stiven's side.
[23:40:12] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: lol
[23:40:18] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: [16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then
[23:40:23] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: idk how he refused
[23:40:27] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} Why did he say that?
[23:40:27] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Okay, can we ask Kenawa and Kenji's opinion regarding this situation?
[23:40:28] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Please?
[23:40:29] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} because of Djole.
[23:40:32] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} Djole is part of suspects.
[23:40:33] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: but, sorry, me aiming a gun at you shouting stop?
[23:40:38] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: Younes man
[23:40:41] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: it is very easy
[23:40:41] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} then he better get his ass otu otherwise it'll end up bad.
[23:40:47] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: tell me when am I allowed to shoot the cops?
[23:40:47] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Okay, can we ask Kenawa and Kenji's opinion regarding this situation?
[23:40:55] {FF0000}Kenawa_Soprano(52) says:{C2A2DA} I was online when this scenario happened so I'm with Younes at this point. (  :rofl: )
[23:41:04] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} You're allowed to shoot the cops whne you have a valid reason and a valid interaction done.
[23:41:06] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: was I not aiming a gun at the front door, kenawa?
[23:41:13] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} You're not allowed to just rush to cops and kill them without giving them a chance to do an ything.
[23:41:14] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: I was.
[23:41:17] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: Look
[23:41:25] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: They tried to gave him a chance
[23:41:26] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: I can shoot the cops when they engage me
[23:41:28] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: Right?
[23:41:32] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} I'm not sying you shouldn't aim guns at cops, I'm not saying you shouldn't guard your interior
[23:41:36] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: Leaving a business by being aimed with a gun is = avoiding roleplay.
[23:41:48] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} But you heading out of that place and spraying all cops outside was just a stupid idea nad is pure DM

I really want to hear how what we did is considered as "pure deathmatching" @Grimbeorn @MrTrane @Andeey @Brian @Grizz @Bengt. Thanks.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Arslan on December 28, 2017, 01:38:47 am
The asslick mentality of "shootouts are for dmers" and "we're pro RPers hence don't shoot people" needs to change and if there are legit reasons for one, people should not cry because they lost. ARPD is lost, there is no leader or structure, the leaders are mostly just goofing around. You can't hold any of them accountable for anything.

Admins need to learn to investigate properly which most don't. If a situation is not clear don't be a rambo with the red name and take both sides of the argument in detail, could be through forum PM and give a ruling later if needed.

You concerns are legit but my personal opinion is this will never change because after 5-10 pages of this topic, things will be back to as they are. Management mentality will probably be to let things "cool down" and that's it pretty much. Reason for this opinion is that I've seen countless topics like this with legit motives but they hold 0 value in terms of management. Management should have a open mind and not make blind decisions without considering consequences of the decisions made. 
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Julio. on December 28, 2017, 01:49:23 am
I was one of the officers outside.

David Knight was under the impression that nobody inside wanted to RP, as he came outside and told us so, so I can only assume there was a misunderstanding there. As a native English speaker, I can tell you that "Ok no RP then" is a somewhat sarcastic comment about your RP or lack of it, not him refusing to RP.

However, I do agree with the fact it wasn't DM. Let's face it, the situation was only going to end one way, either with the cops entering and there being a shootout, or you guys exiting. I don't think the cops started the shootout though, I was shot when I wasnt even looking towards the casino. I don't object to being caught by surprise though, that's just good tactics on your side.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on December 28, 2017, 01:51:21 am
I asked Djole to assist me in checking the situation outside if there is any police around. Both of us exited, we noticed 2 freecops close to the casino. We went towards them and asked them to leave the area. They didn't, they told us to surrender and we exchanged fires there. It ended up with both freecops being killed by me and Djole and we both went back inside the casino

This is where you made a mistake. As a criminal, your goal would be to escape from the cops. "Leave or get shot" is Deathmatching same as "Stop or we shoot". Now, I haven't read the full topic as I'm just leaving from work(Will get to it once I'm home), but from what I've read so far you brought yourself to the situation. Calling in allies to scout for cops, arming up and getting ready for a shootout, what this describes is the everyday Cops & Robbers mentality which is a really poor excuse for "Roleplay".

You were inside the casino, you realized you were suspected. Think logically, there's a Gvardia suspect with a gathering of Gvardias and Allies in the 4 Dragons. Cops see that, first thing they'll do is go and check out if you are there. You stayed, you encouraged people to scout for you and mentally prepared for the shootout instead of leaving and laying low until you escape.

You do deserve some sort of punishment though. If not for going out of the casino and shooting people(This may not have been DM), but for the two freecops you went up to and killed.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Arslan on December 28, 2017, 01:56:49 am
This is where you made a mistake. As a criminal, your goal would be to escape from the cops. "Leave or get shot" is Deathmatching same as "Stop or we shoot". Now, I haven't read the full topic as I'm just leaving from work(Will get to it once I'm home), but from what I've read so far you brought yourself to the situation. Calling in allies to scout for cops, arming up and getting ready for a shootout, what this describes is the everyday Cops & Robbers mentality which is a really poor excuse for "Roleplay".

You were inside the casino, you realized you were suspected. Think logically, there's a Gvardia suspect with a gathering of Gvardias and Allies in the 4 Dragons. Cops see that, first thing they'll do is go and check out if you are there. You stayed, you encouraged people to scout for you and mentally prepared for the shootout instead of leaving and laying low until you escape.

You do deserve some sort of punishment though. If not for going out of the casino and shooting people(This may not have been DM), but for the two freecops you went up to and killed.

I'm sure Gandalf himself has given guidelines on such situations. If you know you're outnumbered, you know they are a large mafia and probably heavily armed, you're not going to get far by snooping up on them when there's only two of you. As far as i'm concerned, if the cops couldn't handle, they should not have been there in the first place. As said in the topic, they were heavily outnumbered.

I mean cops just "wondering" around a group of men in a organised crime family isn't going to instigate a welcoming reaction especially if they are suspects. It puts them on the edge, cops may be collecting evidence, providing information to others etc. If the cops wanted to be there, they should've hidden themselves and done surveillance and then called in back up and launched a proper assault to tackle the situation.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Jeremy. on December 28, 2017, 01:57:49 am
This is where you made a mistake. As a criminal, your goal would be to escape from the cops. "Leave or get shot" is Deathmatching same as "Stop or we shoot". Now, I haven't read the full topic as I'm just leaving from work(Will get to it once I'm home), but from what I've read so far you brought yourself to the situation. Calling in allies to scout for cops, arming up and getting ready for a shootout, what this describes is the everyday Cops & Robbers mentality which is a really poor excuse for "Roleplay".

You were inside the casino, you realized you were suspected. Think logically, there's a Gvardia suspect with a gathering of Gvardias and Allies in the 4 Dragons. Cops see that, first thing they'll do is go and check out if you are there. You stayed, you encouraged people to scout for you and mentally prepared for the shootout instead of leaving and laying low until you escape.

You do deserve some sort of punishment though. If not for going out of the casino and shooting people(This may not have been DM), but for the two freecops you went up to and killed.

I stated it at the beginning, read it all before saying your opinion. We went out yes, we walked towards both of them and asked them nicely to leave. They could hop in their cruiser and leave the area, they shot us instead and told us to surrender. I don't really see where is your point, there is no rule saying I can't stick with my family because I'm a suspect or I stick inside a property. Your arguments are totally invalid.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 01:58:54 am
Why has all my CAPS LOCK been removed? :( Am I butthurt because I got warned? Not really, kinda thought I would get banned to be honest. I've been there before.

Honestly, I'll admit, the situation could have been RPed better, absolutely, but that happened anyway.

It is to be noted, that the police had barricaded the casino. It is to be noted that David Knight entered the casino at least three times. It is to be noted that David Knight used the /su command to suspect Zhang Gvardia for aiding. It is to be noted that everyone committed the same crime. It is to be noted that we all knew why the police were there. It is to be noted that two freecops were killed by Jeremy and Djole before reinforcements came.

2. Are you allowed to help your suspected family member in a gunfight with the cops without any roleplaying? I mean no one really has time for any fancy /me's when there's bullets flying.
Yes, providing you were on scene before the encounter with the police begins and providing it is proper combat where the family member's life is at stake. What is not allowed is to arrive after the police have already engaged the suspect and assist in combat. But to be clear, if you and a wanted family member are already clearly together and the police arrive and potentially lethal combat ensues, you may assist the family member in combat. This does not mean you can attack a police officer on sight just because you happen to be with a suspected family member, nor does it mean you can attack a police officer if your friend chooses to surrender, but if the attempted arrest turns to combat you may assist.

We did not choose to attack the police officers on sight because we happen to be with a suspected family member. We chose to shoot them based on their current and previous actions.

An HQ member told me after the situation that a police officer is engaging you when:
Quote
When it's pretty clear their aim is to go after you
So anything that shows they're engaging/ going after you

BARRICADING THE PROPERTY. If that isn't engaging, then I don't know what is, honestly.



Admins need to learn to investigate properly which most don't. If a situation is not clear don't be a rambo with the red name and take both sides of the argument in detail, could be through forum PM and give a ruling later if needed.
The conversation on the spoiler is "after two hours of investigating". Funnily enough, it's pretty clear that his intention was to punish me. I knew that from the very start of it, but that shouldn't stop me from defending myself.

You know what's funny, though?

[23:50:55] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} You said shoot back = no longer DM
[23:50:59] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: We had a reason.
[23:50:59] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} That is true, but not in this case
[23:51:04] Stiven_Gvardia(9) says: LMAO
[23:51:06] Jeremy_Gvardia(30) says: lol..
[23:51:14] Screenshot Taken - sa-mp-205.png
[23:51:16] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} You guys were many, and if few cops shot after you guys controlled area outside, it doesn't mean it's
[23:51:19] {FF0000}[TCL]Younes(40) says:{C2A2DA} its not DM.



I was one of the officers outside.

David Knight was under the impression that nobody inside wanted to RP, as he came outside and told us so, so I can only assume there was a misunderstanding there. As a native English speaker, I can tell you that "Ok no RP then" is a somewhat sarcastic comment about your RP or lack of it, not him refusing to RP.

However, I do agree with the fact it wasn't DM. Let's face it, the situation was only going to end one way, either with the cops entering and there being a shootout, or you guys exiting. I don't think the cops started the shootout though, I was shot when I wasnt even looking towards the casino. I don't object to being caught by surprise though, that's just good tactics on your side.
I was there too, but I got punished for it!

David Knight was being aimed at and told to stop moving the whole time after the first entry. David Knight didn't want to RP. It is sarcastic, of course, but in no way were the criminals inside the casino refusing to RP, as apparently, that is what he went to the administration for.


Thanks for being honest about it. I mean, it takes not so much thinking that the shootout was going to happen. We couldn't escape the casino without a fight, unless you would have let us?
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Hevar. on December 28, 2017, 01:59:30 am
Man, i got one time warned because i got rammed by a UC admin, and the UC admin telling me i didn't RP when i had focus on something else and the person didn't get any shit, i got all blame. haha walla best admin ever sometimes HQ tell us to report but they dont even review so whole ''report admin'' is bullshit

8 years in this server never got treated like this before , i miss old HQ for real because i rather have old HQ than this , because at least they do their job correctly.

Carbon is only person that is good in HQ, they rest judge players by the title and takes staff words more serious than players.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 02:01:35 am
takes staff words more serious than players.
I'm not going to criticize the HQ, as I have been listened to by them when I needed. Props for that. But they do take staff way too seriously, and staff can't check logs at all lol, nor fact check, nothing really.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Hevar. on December 28, 2017, 02:04:04 am
I'm not going to criticize the HQ, as I have been listened to by them when I needed. Props for that. But they do take staff way too seriously, and staff can't check logs at all lol, nor fact check, nothing really.

Man they put people which got banned 10 times or for worse stuff like hacking or aimbotting as helper, and the person never help, just using help duty for show off and nothing else. These ''helpers'' going one day be moderator then admins. This is how system works these days
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Arslan on December 28, 2017, 02:08:41 am
These problems will never go away because there is no definition of what kind of a server Argonath is. In one scenario it becomes stricter than LSRP and in another it becomes more relaxed than a free roam.

Topic is just a repeat of many. The above will never change.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Ben. on December 28, 2017, 02:12:10 am
I was present in the situation as well; The intention of the police and the suspects were both, clearly, to win. First note, play to win and 50% of participants will always be disappointed!

With that in mind, it was an even playing field.
A negotiation was sought by the police...but were only willing to do so "under their terms". When the suspects attempted to gain control over negotiations, FBI "pressed H" and left the building.

To he honest I don't see any deathmatching here; What I do say though was a situation not approached well by either party. Ever thought of PMing the opposition participants to agree to a course of action? We can be friends and RP different roles, you know.

I can't speak for the situation with the two freecops prior to this though, I wasn't there and if I've learned anything over the past few years, it is that I shouldn't pass judgment without access to all the facts.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 02:35:48 am
These problems will never go away because there is no definition of what kind of a server Argonath is. In one scenario it becomes stricter than LSRP and in another it becomes more relaxed than a free roam.

Topic is just a repeat of many. The above will never change.
True, that's just the mentality here.



A negotiation was sought by the police...but were only willing to do so "under their terms". When the suspects attempted to gain control over negotiations, FBI "pressed H" and left the building.

To he honest I don't see any deathmatching here; What I do say though was a situation not approached well by either party. Ever thought of PMing the opposition participants to agree to a course of action? We can be friends and RP different roles, you know.
It's not everyday the police wants to negociate with someone who has no hostages, and is a murderer of fellow LEOs. Their intentions were never communicated to us.

Second cop in the scene who says he wasn't DMed, yet some admin spectating says it was DM. I agree that the situation could have been better RPed, that can't change. Will try in the future, sure, not like I'm good at shooting anyway :P
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Shorty. on December 28, 2017, 03:02:23 am
DM means killing/shooting someone without a reason, in the situation we had two of us were suspected, and the officer who came in did not co operate in the RP, we were 8 players fully armed, and as a mafia we roleplay by basic standers that can give us few options either dying or killing.

We were out numbering the cops which means we are able to escape, on the other hand if we were out numbered we would have stayed inside the property, the cop who entered the property kept entering and exiting the property, suspected everyone of us, we waited for him TO ENTER WITHOUT EXITING so we can solve the situation BUT he did not give us a chance to interact properly.

Some might say it was a miss understanding BUT none of the both sides should have got punished, I myself tried to solve it with YOUNES but he did not consider my words as it's the truth, although i said the correct story even the part where we rushed out.

I hope the HQ can look further into this situation.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Arslan on December 28, 2017, 03:05:51 am
It's not everyday the police wants to negociate with someone who has no hostages, and is a murderer of fellow LEOs. Their intentions were never communicated to us.
Also, what the heck is this new trend that the only way police can RP is by negotiating and if someone refuses to negotiate he doesn't RP, lol. Police should RP as police and form strategies, surveillance and conduct briefings on how to tackle situations before going in. But again, as i said before, ARPD is a mess.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: djole on December 28, 2017, 03:43:26 am
Also, what the heck is this new trend that the only way police can RP is by negotiating and if someone refuses to negotiate he doesn't RP, lol. Police should RP as police and form strategies, surveillance and conduct briefings on how to tackle situations before going in. But again, as i said before, ARPD is a mess.  :hah: :cop:
when they don't have the numbers to storm in and slaughter everyone, they suddenly remember they like to roleplay after all and try to "negotiate"; however when it doesn't go their way, and they're baffled by the fact someone deaded em, they'll just punish #justargonaththings


when you want to "win" all the time there's always going be a good chance you "lose", suck it up and move on
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Matt Murdock on December 28, 2017, 05:38:58 am
--
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Joe_George on December 28, 2017, 06:10:52 am
in ivmp, when we want a RP with cops, we inform them before they arrive. For hostages, we bring other players to play as hostages. have admins participating in the RP. let em control situations. nothing can go wrong  :D
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: AryaN on December 28, 2017, 08:24:35 am
I was also present at the scene although I had arrived later when the barricades were being set up. It's not that we wanted to breach in, execute every single of them but rather we were waiting for more units to gather up. Barriers were set up around the place to avoid any kind of trespassing and whilst everyone was trying to recognize the situation, FBI entered inside to check out (Not sure if he was placing snake cam or something as I didn't noticed very well) and as soon as he was out, he informed us that he was being knifed by one of them but managed to escape.

What we I was expecting is that on exiting of suspects we will either force them to give up or execute them if they showed any type of suspicious activity as they had already murdered two leo's. Although the situation was expected as someone said above "Either cops start it by breaching in, or the suspects does by exiting". Outcome was expected because we were outnumbered.

What I see is, the situation couldn't be properly roleplayed because both the parties wanted to turn things under their favour and due to lack of communication, none of them succeeded. I wouldn't say that it was DM but it wasn't properly roleplayed either.

Last but not the least, Shit happens!
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Pete on December 28, 2017, 08:38:01 am
I think you guys are here long enough, instead of taking that to a private conversation with the HQ (discrd, pm or something) you decide to post it public, hence create arguments and so on.....while you are having a poll about punishments in general, you are having an issues with one situation. I think rather then making a topic and making it look like you are crying, you can just PM any HQ member and I am sure he will look up into it.
 There is a right place for that and it's not here....creating a topic about one report, isn't the solution.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Rei on December 28, 2017, 09:24:59 am
In my opinion, the wrong part is chasing the two freecops in the beginning, you started the whole situation in a wrong way, it will end up in a wrong way you know.

However, there are plenty of opportunities to escape. Why choosing the last option of escape, you can always be creative for example, two weeks ago i had a bunch of sopranos with me, i was suspected and i forgot about it and i noticed that when my minimap was full of blue blips.
I could simply do what you did, yes, everyone enjoy shooting but not everyone enjoy losing so i decided to play with the dice, i went, i surrendered.
On my way to the nearest police station i was only guided by two officers in a vehicle with me, so i try my luck and offer them an amount of money, they showed back a roleplaying interest and i decide to take it further, we talk, and we came up with a conclusion that i have to pay for my freedom, i did, they let me go and tadaaa.. both sides are happy.

Now, we've been here for quite a while, punished for these reasons and so on, we know it is wrong and we keep doing it? why?. It is more simple to stay away from the troubles, just fuck it.. its always been this way and will probably remain this way, we cant change it.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: jovanca on December 28, 2017, 09:51:35 am
Hiring people who obviously don't know the rules to enforce the rules they don't know turns up like this. Guy hasn't even been here long enough to learn how things work but he's in staff..

Makes me wonder, why is it always the same group of people crying about their punishments.

Last year same time it was #boycott, now this.

New year, same shit.

I wonder why is it always the same people talking about shit they know nothing about. Yet here you are.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Claudia on December 28, 2017, 10:02:09 am
Last time I got punished for something I haven't done, I did PM Brian instead of posting it in the public.
And guess what? My punishment got removed.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Dean. on December 28, 2017, 10:05:00 am
haha no


happy new year friends

Hiring people who obviously don't know the rules to enforce the rules they don't know turns up like this. Guy hasn't even been here long enough to learn how things work but he's in staff..

I wonder why is it always the same people talking about shit they know nothing about. Yet here you are.

HAHA THE IRONY
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: jovanca on December 28, 2017, 10:12:11 am
Last time I got punished for something I haven't done, I did PM Brian instead of posting it in the public.
And guess what? My punishment got removed.

That's how you chose to handle it. In this case more than 5 people got punished and instesd of all reporting it in private they decided to make a forum thread. Which kind of makes sense as they wanted to hear public's opinion because this is a public problem.

And even if Jeremy was wrong to post this, those who voted 'no' are just salty Gvardia haters. It isn't a shame to make a mistake, but it's a shame to refuse to accept your OBVIOUS mistakes.

haha no


happy new year friends

HAHA THE IRONY

If you are going to troll you better just get out of here.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Claudia on December 28, 2017, 10:20:07 am
That's how you chose to handle it. In this case more than 5 people got punished and instesd of all reporting it in private they decided to make a forum thread. Which kind of makes sense as they wanted to hear public's opinion because this is a public problem.

And even if Jeremy was wrong to post this, those who voted 'no' are just salty Gvardia haters. It isn't a shame to make a mistake, but it's a shame to refuse to accept your OBVIOUS mistakes.


Na, creating a topic to cause drama for nothing won't reduce their punishment or make it disappear.
It just causes anger between the community.


As for the situation, he should have evaded the cops at the first place instead of "Leave (or die)".
Shooting should be done as last resort and it doesn't matter what you are, a cop or a criminal.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: jovanca on December 28, 2017, 10:25:10 am
Na, creating a topic to cause drama for nothing won't reduce their punishment or make it disappear.
It just causes anger between the community.


As for the situation, he should have evaded the cops at the first place instead of "Leave (or die)".
Shooting should be done as last resort and it doesn't matter what you are, a cop or a criminal.

Idea behind this thread is not to get their punishments removed but to point out a huge problem on samp.

As for the second part of your post i hope you are sarcastic. If you want to discuss it hit me up in PM to avoid derailing this thread
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Bruce. on December 28, 2017, 10:33:52 am
I think that creating a topic wont help. Instead try to get a meeting with one or two HQ members and talk about things you think it is a problem within the server/police. Sure its up to SAPD/FBI command bla bla bla...HQ is above them and they can interfeer if something is gone wrong.
Making a topic will cause a bigger mess because people who liek you will be beside u and people who dont will try to find ANYTHING to throw ur facts down.
We all know Argonath's mentality is to win or to win. There is no loosing. I myself as a cop do roleplay at whole times even if I know I am going to die, I dont give a flying fuck...its a game.
The admin that handled the situation should have been investigating it way more with logs from both sides and from HQ.
Anyway, its his way to handle a report. Ofc if you think its wrong just talk with a HQ member about it and im sure they will listen to such complains.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Jeremy. on December 28, 2017, 11:32:11 am
Makes me wonder, why is it always the same group of people crying about their punishments.

Last year same time it was #boycott, now this.

New year, same shit.

Hello, before reading the following content I would like to state that this is not a certain cry topic, no grudge on anyone or stuff like that. Just a quick note: if you're planning to spread bullshit around and ruin the issue I will point out, don't post ot all or just stop reading and switch the topic. It's a personal request, anyone is feel free to post whatever they want to. I just want it to be sorted out rather than closed for being flooded with off-topic/no-sense posts. Thanks in advance.

The only one which is crying it's you, mister. Unless you come up with proper arguments, I won't even waste my time reading your posts.

I think you guys are here long enough, instead of taking that to a private conversation with the HQ (discrd, pm or something) you decide to post it public, hence create arguments and so on.....while you are having a poll about punishments in general, you are having an issues with one situation. I think rather then making a topic and making it look like you are crying, you can just PM any HQ member and I am sure he will look up into it.
 There is a right place for that and it's not here....creating a topic about one report, isn't the solution.

There is nobody crying, we're having a civilized discussion. Reports have issued, HQ will indeed take care of it. I just want to hear a public opinion from them, we had two discussions with Younes yet we didn't understand shit. If there are new rules, they should be posted here so we can all play by the rules. You can't except me to guess every administrators' mind and act the only way they want to. As everyone is making mistakes, we all admit them. Maybe Younes hearing other opinions which are with proper arguments he will change his point of view. It's just a warning, not a full ban. So, show me where and how we are crying? Finding a post which is made constructively and proving something properly is considered as "crying" for you then you don't have any idea of what you're talking about.

Last time I got punished for something I haven't done, I did PM Brian instead of posting it in the public.
And guess what? My punishment got removed.

You're playing since 1 year here, I'm playing since 8. That means I'm way more experienced than you, accept it or not. I have witnessed administrative cases which you can't even count, I've been also in the staff team for a certain period of time. It's not just one of us which got a punishment and what made me to post a topic is Younes and his 0 willing of listening, coming out with rules which we never heard of. I'm sorry, but I can't play on a server which rules are being introduced out of nowhere.

In my opinion, the wrong part is chasing the two freecops in the beginning, you started the whole situation in a wrong way, it will end up in a wrong way you know.

However, there are plenty of opportunities to escape. Why choosing the last option of escape, you can always be creative for example, two weeks ago i had a bunch of sopranos with me, i was suspected and i forgot about it and i noticed that when my minimap was full of blue blips.
I could simply do what you did, yes, everyone enjoy shooting but not everyone enjoy losing so i decided to play with the dice, i went, i surrendered.
On my way to the nearest police station i was only guided by two officers in a vehicle with me, so i try my luck and offer them an amount of money, they showed back a roleplaying interest and i decide to take it further, we talk, and we came up with a conclusion that i have to pay for my freedom, i did, they let me go and tadaaa.. both sides are happy.

Now, we've been here for quite a while, punished for these reasons and so on, we know it is wrong and we keep doing it? why?. It is more simple to stay away from the troubles, just fuck it.. its always been this way and will probably remain this way, we cant change it.

Thanks for submitting a nice post rather than throwing hate here. Regarding the two freecops, I said it earlier.

We went out yes, we walked towards both of them and asked them nicely to leave. They could hop in their cruiser and leave the area, they shot us instead and told us to surrender.

We didn't just go to them and start shooting, what we did was we advised them friendly to leave the place. They could roleplay with us, approach and tell us there's a suspect inside the casino. But no, let's rather read nametags and don't involve roleplaying at all, whenever you see the suspect from /mdc shoot him on sight. That's what happened with the cops outside. Me and Djole went out to interact with them, not to kill them. I decided to stay in casino because I simply wanted to, there is no rule stating that if you're a suspect you can't stay in a certain building.

It's good that people admit it and speak the truth, rather than spreading shit around.

I was one of the officers outside.
However, I do agree with the fact it wasn't DM. Let's face it, the situation was only going to end one way, either with the cops entering and there being a shootout, or you guys exiting. I don't think the cops started the shootout though, I was shot when I wasnt even looking towards the casino. I don't object to being caught by surprise though, that's just good tactics on your side.

I was present in the situation as well
To he honest I don't see any deathmatching here
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 11:34:52 am
Quote from: rules
3. Deathmatching
Deathmatching is defined as attacking another player without a role-play reason and is strictly prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to, the following:
  • Killing any player after insufficient/poor role-play situations. (Such as shouting Stop several times, or if someone refused to obey you in a robbery.
  • Killing any player on sight without interacting with them or giving them a chance to role-play.
Just because someone refused to roleplay, it doesn't mean you should go out and DM them. You weren't punished for not roleplaying with cops, you weren't punished because Djole went behind David with a knife without roleplay and aiming it with the backstab animation, you weren't punished because you aimed guns at the door and guarded your place. You were punished because you went out and shot every single cop with zero roleplay done. What's the reason? You being suspected, and them failing to roleplay.

If you are here for long enough you'd understand what deathmatching is. You aren't allowed to shoot someone without interacting, just like cops weren't allowed to come inside and kill every single one of you.
I'm not siding anyone here, I don't care if cops lose any situation, I don't care if Gvardia or any other family wins, we are supposed to lose sometimes and I don't have that play to win mentality. I only care when you're not doing what you're supposed to do and just having a poor roleplay and a poor reason to kill, to deathmatch.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Jeremy. on December 28, 2017, 11:50:44 am
Just because someone refused to roleplay, it doesn't mean you should go out and DM them. You weren't punished for not roleplaying with cops, you weren't punished because Djole went behind David with a knife without roleplay and aiming it with the backstab animation, you weren't punished because you aimed guns at the door and guarded your place. You were punished because you went out and shot every single cop with zero roleplay done. What's the reason? You being suspected, and them failing to roleplay.

If you are here for long enough you'd understand what deathmatching is. You aren't allowed to shoot someone without interacting, just like cops weren't allowed to come inside and kill every single one of you.
I'm not siding anyone here, I don't care if cops lose any situation, I don't care if Gvardia or any other family wins, we are supposed to lose sometimes and I don't have that play to win mentality. I only care when you're not doing what you're supposed to do and just having a poor roleplay and a poor reason to kill, to deathmatch.

And again, you're not understanding even 1 sentence of what I wrote in the first post.

1)There has been prior attempt of interaction with the 2 freecops which resulted in their death. Therefore me and Djole were wanted for murdering someone.
We didn't just go to them and start shooting, what we did was we advised them friendly to leave the place. They could roleplay with us, approach and tell us there's a suspect inside the casino. But no, let's rather read nametags and don't involve roleplaying at all, whenever you see the suspect from /mdc shoot him on sight. That's what happened with the cops outside. Me and Djole went out to interact with them, not to kill them. I decided to stay in casino because I simply wanted to, there is no rule stating that if you're a suspect you can't stay in a certain building.
2)FBI agent David went inside, as we were wanted for mudering Stiven and Djole tried to approach him via roleplaying. He didn't get shot on sight, he didn't receive any single bullet from anyone of us. He stated himself that he doesn't wish to roleplay and was constantly entering/exiting the place with 0 willings to roleplay or interact with any of us.
Quote
[16:47:03] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:47:07] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:11] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:47:13] David_Knight(39) says: Hi
[16:47:13] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:17] David_Knight(39) says: We don't want a shootout
[16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then
3)We had Acika Luciano scouting outside for us, we've been aware of the fact that there are preparations being made and barricades are set and thats why we let Sopranos and whoever was there playing in casino free to go, to avoid any DM.
Quote
[16:52:55] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): kenawa and donnie leaving in a car
[16:54:01] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): all at the truck, arming up
[16:54:30] ***[6000] Acika_Luciano(58): reinforcement
4)We went out, we exchanged fires. Both parties shot, there was nobody just sitting and doing *me extends his hand to negotiate*, they were all getting equipped with weaponary.

I doubt your saying is above Kojak's. Read this carefully:
Quote from: Kojak
Yes, providing you were on scene before the encounter with the police begins and providing it is proper combat where the family member's life is at stake. What is not allowed is to arrive after the police have already engaged the suspect and assist in combat. But to be clear, if you and a wanted family member are already clearly together and the police arrive and potentially lethal combat ensues, you may assist the family member in combat. This does not mean you can attack a police officer on sight just because you happen to be with a suspected family member, nor does it mean you can attack a police officer if your friend chooses to surrender, but if the attempted arrest turns to combat you may assist.

We would treat that in the same way as if you were attacked yourself, as in it is not necessary to use role-play commands or words to flesh out your actions.

Also a few quotes by people which have more knowledge and experience than you which were on scene and admitted that there was no DM involved:

I was one of the officers outside.

David Knight was under the impression that nobody inside wanted to RP, as he came outside and told us so, so I can only assume there was a misunderstanding there. As a native English speaker, I can tell you that "Ok no RP then" is a somewhat sarcastic comment about your RP or lack of it, not him refusing to RP.

However, I do agree with the fact it wasn't DM. Let's face it, the situation was only going to end one way, either with the cops entering and there being a shootout, or you guys exiting. I don't think the cops started the shootout though, I was shot when I wasnt even looking towards the casino. I don't object to being caught by surprise though, that's just good tactics on your side.

I was present in the situation as well; The intention of the police and the suspects were both, clearly, to win. First note, play to win and 50% of participants will always be disappointed!

With that in mind, it was an even playing field.
A negotiation was sought by the police...but were only willing to do so "under their terms". When the suspects attempted to gain control over negotiations, FBI "pressed H" and left the building.

To he honest I don't see any deathmatching here; What I do say though was a situation not approached well by either party. Ever thought of PMing the opposition participants to agree to a course of action? We can be friends and RP different roles, you know.

I can't speak for the situation with the two freecops prior to this though, I wasn't there and if I've learned anything over the past few years, it is that I shouldn't pass judgment without access to all the facts.



Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: jovanca on December 28, 2017, 11:53:37 am
Just because someone refused to roleplay, it doesn't mean you should go out and DM them. You weren't punished for not roleplaying with cops, you weren't punished because Djole went behind David with a knife without roleplay and aiming it with the backstab animation, you weren't punished because you aimed guns at the door and guarded your place. You were punished because you went out and shot every single cop with zero roleplay done. What's the reason? You being suspected, and them failing to roleplay.

If you are here for long enough you'd understand what deathmatching is. You aren't allowed to shoot someone without interacting, just like cops weren't allowed to come inside and kill every single one of you.
I'm not siding anyone here, I don't care if cops lose any situation, I don't care if Gvardia or any other family wins, we are supposed to lose sometimes and I don't have that play to win mentality. I only care when you're not doing what you're supposed to do and just having a poor roleplay and a poor reason to kill, to deathmatch.

You are wanted for murder, a cops comes in and suspects your friends, that cop then refuses to roleplay at all but remains armed behind a barricade waiting for you to come out to, as someone stated above, 'force you to give up or execute you', and you know that very well. That's a valid reason to shoot my man.

Not to mention that you are allowed to shoot cops who engage you as a suspect. And by engage i don't only mean shoot. Making a barricade around your property and holding their guns pointed sure falls under that.

Was it a good roleplay? No. But was it against the rules? Definetly not.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 12:00:51 pm
Was it a good roleplay? No. But was it against the rules? Definetly not.

If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay, it rather means there is a story behind that made him say it so instead of using chatlog let us be aware of the true situation instead of using it as an excuse.

As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest, that unlike the rest of situations we excuse, had no intentions besides executing everyone.
We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay. If you want to shoot, make it valid and roleplay properly. This isn't cops and robbers, this is a roleplay server.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: paradox_dz on December 28, 2017, 12:02:05 pm
It's a roleplay server , lets go more real , when you are a suspect the only thing you think is avoide cops and stay alive , if cops have a reason to shoot you , so you have the same reason to shoot them , also kenawa told me we can skip action so i don't need to RP my action when i see some bullet flying , in the end of the situation it will just some bullets from cops like anytime YOU DEAD or COPS DEAD .
If cops or FBI keep spamming discord to call backup like anytime , you press tab 2 cops they come start a quilty of RP waiting for respond from discord , since they come a shootout and pure DM from cops side.
•The only reason from cops to shoot you is you are a suspect .
•The only reason from suspect to shoot cops is keep his ass alive.
So the DM from both side do not count
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 12:04:37 pm
•The only reason from cops to shoot you is you are a suspect .
•The only reason from suspect to shoot cops is keep his ass alive.
So the DM from both side do not count

There wasn't anything threatening life of the criminals. They just chose to end situation fast using the excuse they are wanted and that the cops failed to roleplay at first. So instead of trying another way to roleplay, I let my guns speak. Well no, that is not how it works here.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Jeremy. on December 28, 2017, 12:05:34 pm
If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay

[16:47:03] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:47:07] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:11] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:47:13] David_Knight(39) says: Hi
[16:47:13] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:17] David_Knight(39) says: We don't want a shootout
[16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then


As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest

[16:47:03] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:47:07] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:11] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:47:13] David_Knight(39) says: Hi
[16:47:13] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:17] David_Knight(39) says: We don't want a shootout
[16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then


We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay. If you want to shoot, make it valid and roleplay properly. This isn't cops and robbers, this is a roleplay server.

[16:47:03] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:47:07] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:11] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:47:13] David_Knight(39) says: Hi
[16:47:13] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: HALT!!
[16:47:17] David_Knight(39) says: We don't want a shootout
[16:47:36] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: I said stop moving!!
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 12:13:01 pm
Can you be convincing for once? The chatlog doesn't prove anything besides possibility of both sides refusing to roleplay. Instead of continuously using it as an argument, say the story behind, let those who commented know the truth.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: CELTICS on December 28, 2017, 12:14:01 pm
If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay, it rather means there is a story behind that made him say it so instead of using chatlog let us be aware of the true situation instead of using it as an excuse.

As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest, that unlike the rest of situations we excuse, had no intentions besides executing everyone.
We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay.

We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay.
Where could you possibly find this fair chance of /roleplay/ when you're in a very tense situation between a barricaded mafia and less federals circling up the zone? The only fair chance of roleplay that you could drag from this would be a scene where both parties will turn the shootout for a tactical pov instead of jumping around and scrolling weapons (which will never happen in this community). Nobody will ever comply with any /me-s or descriptive actions when they're shooting you, nobody has that time, nobody wants to risk to get put down by the other. Also, talking in terms of realism, as far as I'm concerned, everything kept to a roleplay behavior: Inside the casino, a famous organization not willing to ever get behind the bars and a lack of federal staff with someone from outside scouting. Why would, talking in those terms of realism and roleplay, why would someone, knowing that they have the numbers, not use this opportunity and make it as a chance of escaping? The more time they'd spend inside the building, the more blue dots would have arrived, right? So why couldn't they use this as an opportunity to escape? Which they did afterwards I suppose. 

Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: jovanca on December 28, 2017, 12:14:08 pm
If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay, it rather means there is a story behind that made him say it so instead of using chatlog let us be aware of the true situation instead of using it as an excuse.

As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest, that unlike the rest of situations we excuse, had no intentions besides executing everyone.
We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay. If you want to shoot, make it valid and roleplay properly. This isn't cops and robbers, this is a roleplay server.

I suggest you dig into reading the rules again(if you ever even read them). While by common sense and logic SHOULD be labeled as deathmatch, Argonath has it's own rules which allow suspects to shoot officers who engage them.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Dean. on December 28, 2017, 12:15:04 pm
Quote
[16:47:37] David_Knight(39) says: ok no rp then

I said that as Djole came creeping up on me with a knife after shouting 'pigs leave' or something autistic like that. I have no interest in being knife killed while trying to type.

I even announced we were going to try and negotiate on the radio.

Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Claudia on December 28, 2017, 12:23:40 pm
I have no interest in being knife killed while trying to type.

Same as what happened to me once I tried to negotiate with Gvardia.
In the same time I tried to type, someone went behind me and backstabbed me with no role play at all, ignoring the fact that there was an agent behind me and another 9 cops. Didn't even ask for ressistance etc.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 12:37:11 pm
You were punished because you went out and shot every single cop with zero roleplay done. What's the reason? You being suspected, and them failing to roleplay.
Them failing to RP is not a reason to shoot them, it is to show you that there were no basis of RPing. Tell me what in the world could have been possibly RPed there? You have three officers on the scene who say it wasn't DM, and both sides knew what was coming. And to me, that shows that they know the reason why they were killed. So why are you not seeing it? We admit to being wrong in not properly RPing this, and we gave our reason why. But get punished for it? Please, been for way too long to know the only thing that's gonna get me banned is the attitude I have, not my ability to RP.

You aren't allowed to shoot someone without interacting, just like cops weren't allowed to come inside and kill every single one of you.
Yes you are, if both parties know the reason. Interacting can be done in form of actions and doesn't specifically imply we have to talk and use /me for it.

Yes, the cops could have gone inside and shoot the suspects, nothing wrong with that. Instead, they tried to negociate because they were outnumbered, which is another matter and not the subject of this topic.

I'm not siding anyone here, I don't care if cops lose any situation, I don't care if Gvardia or any other family wins, we are supposed to lose sometimes and I don't have that play to win mentality. I only care when you're not doing what you're supposed to do and just having a poor roleplay and a poor reason to kill, to deathmatch.
You are however siding with David, as he was the one to /pm you and tell you that we refused to RP. Tell me, how did we refuse to RP?






If you understand what shooting on sight and failure to roleplay means, you'd understand what's wrong here.
Shooting on sight. David_Knight(39) entered the property three times, was aimed at the whole time, and not a single bullet was shot towards him. How did we refuse to RP, when he was the one entering and exiting the property multiple times, after being approached by us. If you answer those, then I might understand.

The suspects inside had the full right to defend their property. The sentence given by David Knight doesn't mean he refuses to roleplay, it rather means there is a story behind that made him say it so instead of using chatlog let us be aware of the true situation instead of using it as an excuse.
We didn't want to defend the property, yet our friends. What story behind it? His sentence doesn't mean he didn't want to RP, his actions, however, show that he wanted to RP smth else with a bunch of murderers xD

[16:43:15] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): cops outside
[16:43:16] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): cops outside
[16:43:20] ***[6000] Djole(54): np
[16:43:21] ***[6000] Andrei_Gvardia(57): How many?
[16:43:26] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): a lot of FBI
[16:43:30] [Gvardia] Huang_Bao(33): {FFFFFF}cops
[16:43:30] Stiven_Gvardia(31) shouts: COPS!!
[16:43:32] Djole(54) shouts: Fuck outta here pigs!!
[16:43:39] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): FBI and younes
[16:43:46] ***[6000] Stiven_Gvardia(31): MASKS UP.
[16:43:57] ***[6000] TeaM_Hevar(21): GO GO GUYS MASK UP
[16:44:52] Stiven_Gvardia(31) says: There's cops outside, what do we do?
[16:44:54] [Gvardia] Djole(54): {FFFFFF}nvm he's just jumping out like a retard lol

As I said, just like cops aren't allowed to come inside and spray everyone to death, same goes for criminals. You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them and chose to end it with a DM fest, that unlike the rest of situations we excuse, had no intentions besides executing everyone.
We all know it would have ended in a shootout, but just because we know the outcome it doesn't mean you can take a shortcut and end it directly to your side without giving a fair chance of roleplay. If you want to shoot, make it valid and roleplay properly. This isn't cops and robbers, this is a roleplay server.
What? Cops can breach an interior and shoot. I've been killed inside an interior multiple times lol. Don't you remember the cursed hotel in Verona Beach, RS4? Where CBFasi was banning people and scripting bombs inside the interior? Please, that's not true. How did we refuse to RP? What chances lmao? Who told you that?

You go ahead and tell me how we refused to RP in this scenario, and if you were in our position, what would you RP? Enlighten me.



I even announced we were going to try and negotiate on the radio.
Negotiate what? When you entered you said no shooting, and no one shot you. Where's the refusing to RP from our part?



Same as what happened to me once I tried to negotiate with Gvardia.
In the same time I tried to type, someone went behind me and backstabbed me with no role play at all, ignoring the fact that there was an agent behind me and another 9 cops. Didn't even ask for ressistance etc.

That was me who knifed you. I almost died from the agent behind you but that is irrelevant. You can't say we didn't RP with you, can you? We just didn't RP what you WANTED US TO. That's a different scenario and different reasoning behind it.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 12:51:40 pm
There wasn't anything threatening life of the criminals. They just chose to end situation fast using the excuse they are wanted and that the cops failed to roleplay at first. So instead of trying another way to roleplay, I let my guns speak. Well no, that is not how it works here.
Just out of curiosity, were the cops outside being equipped with weapons?
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 12:53:35 pm
I'm not saying you guys refused to roelplay neither they did. I'm not saying what happened inside by your side was wrong, I'm not saying David leaving the interior was right. I'm saying you leaving the interior and killing all cops outside knowing the fact no roleplay was done from both sides was just a stupid idea and wasn't justified at all, and was nothing but DM.

Just out of curiosity, were the cops outside being equipped with weapons?
I don't know, I was watching you and I saw you doing wrong, so I took actions.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Claudia on December 28, 2017, 12:54:23 pm
That was me who knifed you. I almost died from the agent behind you but that is irrelevant. You can't say we didn't RP with you, can you? We just didn't RP what you WANTED US TO. That's a different scenario and different reasoning behind it.

You gave me no chance to react, I don't call this a RP. But I won't talk about this anymore on this topic since it's off topic.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 01:01:28 pm
I'm not saying you guys refused to roelplay neither they did.
What about this:
You had plenty of chances to roleplay yet you refused to take any of them

I'm saying you leaving the interior and killing all cops outside knowing the fact no roleplay was done from both sides was just a stupid idea and wasn't justified at all, and was nothing but DM.
In fact, we told you it was justified, as the cops engaged us. In fact, the cops knew what was coming for them, check Julio's post. In fact,
I don't object to being caught by surprise though, that's just good tactics on your side.

I don't know, I was watching you and I saw you doing wrong, so I took actions.
Well, that's the thing which you fail to do right. You don't know, you don't take actions. I'm not saying you are biased, you just rushed your decision and for that, you should apologize, not to me, but to everyone involved.



You gave me no chance to react, I don't call this a RP. But I won't talk about this anymore on this topic since it's off topic.
Thanks, PM me about it if you want, i was under the impression that you liked my assasin creed move, as you called it :P
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: paradox_dz on December 28, 2017, 01:08:57 pm
There wasn't anything threatening life of the criminals. They just chose to end situation fast using the excuse they are wanted and that the cops failed to roleplay at first. So instead of trying another way to roleplay, I let my guns speak. Well no, that is not how it works here.
If this guys want another way , exit the casino is peace cops will take 2 ways :
• kill the suspect and go away with some cash.
Or
• aim at the suspect warns him to give up and goes to jail .
That's not how it works too
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Dean. on December 28, 2017, 01:13:38 pm
• kill the suspect and go away with some cash.
That's deathmatching. Will not be allowed by supervisors.

• aim at the suspect warns him to give up and goes to jail .

Congratulations, you explained police work.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 01:15:11 pm
Makes me wonder, why is it always the same group of people crying about their punishments.
Fuck do you know, been playing for less than a year here, go posthunt somewhere else.



Congratulations, you explained police work.
And someone who has killed two cops will just go to jail? Congratulations, you know nothing about criminals.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Darty on December 28, 2017, 01:18:03 pm
I've been playing for less then a year here,but I'm mature enough to not create a topic after every punishment I get , just to create a shitstorm.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Ben. on December 28, 2017, 01:20:16 pm
Just out of curiosity, were the cops outside being equipped with weapons?
Yes
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: djole on December 28, 2017, 01:20:24 pm
I said that as Djole came creeping up on me with a knife after shouting 'pigs leave' or something autistic like that. I have no interest in being knife killed while trying to type.

I even announced we were going to try and negotiate on the radio.
nobody tried to knife you, and there's no need to provoke little guy. if you'd like to talk about autistic roleplays here's a gem from the ex fbi director: [21:54:42] Amir_Camorra(35) says: i will kill ur mom

you approached us outnumbered and underprepared, you got deaded, what's the problem? if you knew you didn't have the upper hand why make yourselves sitting ducks? why didn't you fall back? set up sniper nests? you could've done a million other things and instead you decided to enter /su exit 5 times like a complete retard suspecting people who were just standing around. who says we have to go along with whatever you guys are doing? do better next time and you might "win", that's what you're aiming for after all right?
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 01:25:31 pm
In fact, Well, that's the thing which you fail to do right. You don't know, you don't take actions. I'm not saying you are biased, you just rushed your decision and for that, you should apologize, not to me, but to everyone involved.

I haven't rushed anything, I still stick to my decision. You guys failed to roleplay, and you guys got punished for it. You aren't in a Cops n Robbers servers where you can simply shoot someone "because you're suspected". You're supposed to roleplay and that situation clearly was going to be roleplayed but you chose to take a shortcut out.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Claudia on December 28, 2017, 01:26:59 pm
Please lock this topic as nonsense words being said here and nothing actualy helps.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Sawyer on December 28, 2017, 01:27:50 pm
Please lock this topic as nonsense words being said here and nothing actualy helps.


It seems that his community has a real unique talent.  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: djole on December 28, 2017, 01:29:18 pm
I haven't rushed anything, I still stick to my decision. You guys failed to roleplay, and you guys got punished for it. You aren't in a Cops n Robbers servers where you can simply shoot someone "because you're suspected". You're supposed to roleplay and that situation clearly was going to be roleplayed but you chose to take a shortcut out.
ok why does every single suspect get shot without interaction or 2-3 /m1 then? it's a double standard


the situation was your typical argonath scenario, and your opinion that "there wasn't enough interaction" is entirely subjective

also, you had us surrounded, you want to tell me that's not interaction? why would we have to "negotiate" with you if we don't feel like it. we felt that was just a tactic on your part to stall for more reinforcements (which it was as more cops continued to arrive as the shootout was in progress) so we went with a pre-emptive strike.


when i asked you what rule i broke you said "common sense" which further proves this is all just based on subjective reasoning
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: jovanca on December 28, 2017, 01:31:16 pm
I haven't rushed anything, I still stick to my decision. You guys failed to roleplay, and you guys got punished for it. You aren't in a Cops n Robbers servers where you can simply shoot someone "because you're suspected". You're supposed to roleplay and that situation clearly was going to be roleplayed but you chose to take a shortcut out.

You won't stop ignoring the fact that server rules allow suspects to shoot cops who engage them, will you?
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Djinn on December 28, 2017, 01:34:23 pm
I haven't rushed anything, I still stick to my decision. You guys failed to roleplay, and you guys got punished for it. You aren't in a Cops n Robbers servers where you can simply shoot someone "because you're suspected". You're supposed to roleplay and that situation clearly was going to be roleplayed but you chose to take a shortcut out.

Fun thing is, if you're suspect, driving, and just stop the car, EVEN if is to RP, and do not /gu, I'm sure cops will open fire on you. Has happened before so I kinda get why suspects now a days just open fire as well.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 01:41:20 pm
Fun thing is, if you're suspect, driving, and just stop the car, EVEN if is to RP, and do not /gu, I'm sure cops will open fire on you. Has happened before so I kinda get why suspects now a days just open fire as well.

This is irrelevant to this situation, but:
Quote from: rules
3.3 Police Rules
  • You must always give suspects a chance to surrender before engaging with lethal force, unless the suspects engage you before being permitted the chance to ask them to surrender.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Dean. on December 28, 2017, 01:41:52 pm
We've ended up in an endless spiral, only blaming eachother without laying the focus on roleplay, from both sides. The only way we can break through this if the leaders of both law enforcement and criminal groups make agreements and enforce their members approperiately. A new start, so to speak. But that only works if everyone is on board.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 01:43:04 pm
Yes
So it's safe to assume that you were getting ready for a shootout. @Younes There you have it. Justified. What else do you need? You've ignored my other posts.



I've been playing for less then a year here,but I'm mature enough to not create a topic after every punishment I get , just to create a shitstorm.
Thing about going public is not to shame the admin or cry about it. But this way Younes can see both sides knew what was coming and the punishments were invalid. Apart from that, this just shows the flaws the current administrative has, and could be used to improve things. Don't see any shitstorm here. Keep off-topic outside, thank you.



I haven't rushed anything, I still stick to my decision. You guys failed to roleplay, and you guys got punished for it. You aren't in a Cops n Robbers servers where you can simply shoot someone "because you're suspected". You're supposed to roleplay and that situation clearly was going to be roleplayed but you chose to take a shortcut out.
Oh wow, and to think I thought you realised your mistake. Now you're just contradicting yourself and not replying to arguments.

I'm not saying you guys refused to roelplay
Make up your mind.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 01:52:28 pm
So it's safe to assume that you were getting ready for a shootout. @Younes There you have it. Justified. What else do you need? You've ignored my other posts.

You don't find excuses after you DM and say "see, they were doing this and doing that". Cops equiping weapons doesn't mean they're going to kill you instantly. Criminals taking weapons from cases doesn't mean they're going to shoot instantly.


Thing about going public is not to shame the admin or cry about it. But this way Younes can see both sides knew what was coming and the punishments were invalid. Apart from that, this just shows the flaws the current administrative has, and could be used to improve things. Don't see any shitstorm here. Keep off-topic outside, thank you.

I don't consider this as anything besides a conversation topic and I hope it stays like this so let's actually keep it civil and respectful.

Oh wow, and to think I thought you realised your mistake. Now you're just contradicting yourself and not replying to arguments.
Make up your mind.

What mistake are you talking about? You're just trying to find excuses from all around the community and it's ex-leaders so you can justify your actions.

To clarify points here, you went outside and killed at least three cops who were infront the FBI rancher, some started running away and then they shot back. This doesn't mean that both parties participated in the shootout, this doesn't justify your action to shoot on sight every cop outside. I don't see anything that allows you to shoot cops on sight without interacting with them, and if being a /suspect is a reason for you then you shouldn't expect people to be punished for killing suspects on sight at weedfields or any other area. Rules are rules and they apply everywhere, you shouldn't just look at your side and see other situations similar to yours. No one was ever allowed to shoot on sight just because he has been a suspect. Cops were never allowed to shoot criminals at any situation (i.e weedfield) just because they're suspects and at the weedfield, and the same goes for criminals against approaching cops. They need to at least have a valid interaction before withdrawing guns and using them.

Your situation here is unjustified and your reasons aren't supporting it. You said it yourself, cops refused to roleplay so literally no roleplay was done. Why did you choose to kill the cops outside instead of waiting for another roleplay chance at least go outside and interact before shooting?


We've ended up in an endless spiral, only blaming eachother without laying the focus on roleplay, from both sides. The only way we can break through this if the leaders of both law enforcement and criminal groups make agreements and enforce their members approperiately. A new start, so to speak. But that only works if everyone is on board.

Afterall we aren't getting anywhere with this topic. If you want this to be handled, you can take it to HQ (which I'm sure you already did), and I do accept any outcome and I do accept their decision and their opinion, like I'am accepting yours.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 02:08:24 pm
I don't consider this as anything besides a conversation topic and I hope it stays like this so let's actually keep it civil and respectful.
Agreed. Let's keep it at that.

You don't find excuses after you DM and say "see, they were doing this and doing that". Cops equiping weapons doesn't mean they're going to kill you instantly. Criminals taking weapons from cases doesn't mean they're going to shoot instantly.
No it does absolutely not mean that, but there is a reason why they were getting armed, is there? Because I was aiming a gun at a federal agent. It's not really that hard.

What mistake are you talking about? You're just trying to find excuses from all around the community and it's ex-leaders so you can justify your actions.
The quotes are to show you that things were working like these before you and I started playing in the server. You can't tell me what happened was against the rules, you can however tell both sides that we should better RP next time. This is "argo RP" at its finest. But inside that casino, I was RPing with others as well, what makes you think I don't wanna RP with the cops too? Heck, I wasn't even suspected I could've walked.

To clarify points here, you went outside and killed at least three cops who were infront the FBI rancher, some started running away and then they shot back. This doesn't mean that both parties participated in the shootout, this doesn't justify your action to shoot on sight every cop outside. I don't see anything that allows you to shoot cops on sight without interacting with them, and if being a /suspect is a reason for you then you shouldn't expect people to be punished for killing suspects on sight at weedfields or any other area. Rules are rules and they apply everywhere, you shouldn't just look at your side and see other situations similar to yours. No one was ever allowed to shoot on sight just because he has been a suspect. Cops were never allowed to shoot criminals at any situation (i.e weedfield) just because they're suspects and at the weedfield, and the same goes for criminals against approaching cops. They need to at least have a valid interaction before withdrawing guns and using them.
It's funny because the cops outside don't have a problem with it, yet you do. And that's just behind my understanding.

Both parties did participate in the shootout. The criminals started it first, sure, but both parties participated. And if you shoot back, it's no longer DM. Do I have to quote Gandalf on that, or is he an ex-leader as well?

I am however telling you that the cops ENGAGED on us, and that is a reason TO SHOOT AT THEM. That is accepted in this community as far as the rules go, therefore the shootout was justified. Unless you have something to say, like that isn't true or barricading doesn't count as engaging?

Cops can shoot at suspects, what? You're making this things up now. I've been sniped at weed fields multiple times without being a suspect what are you on about? :lol:

Your situation here is unjustified and your reasons aren't supporting it. You said it yourself, cops refused to roleplay so literally no roleplay was done. Why did you choose to kill the cops outside instead of waiting for another roleplay chance at least go outside and interact before shooting?
Not sure how many times this has happened to you, but here in Albania police issues are very common. People run from the cops without interacting. Shooting cops isn't that common but this is GTA, ain't it? You don't tell a cop that you killed two cops and that you are going to run. Fuck man, that's not hard to understand?

Tell me what would you have done, and what would be accepted within your rules ( because the server rules are clear ), so that we wouldn't have gotten punished?
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 02:22:49 pm
Server rules clearly say you aren't allowed to shoot on sight without roleplay, whether you're suspected, a cop, or whatever you are considered as unless a roleplay was done before, and in this case nothing was done.

I'm not saying you don't want to roleplay, I'm not saying no one of Gvardias or whoever participated from both sides doesn't want to roleplay and is here in the server just to DM. I'm saying you guys chose the wrong path out and yes that was DM because you failed to interact before shooting, and you can't shoot on sight because you're just /suspect-ed.

I'm not saying Gandalf is wrong, but I'm saying you quoting that in this situation is totally wrong. You guys killed most of cops outside and few of the last ones shot once they found themselves alone. This doens't mean what you done at start is clear and it doesn't mean you did it correct.

Yes I was going to convince you and just talk to you about this situation without issuing any punishment; But just like everyone else gets warned for situations like this one, I can't make an exception otherwise I wouldn't be fair, would I?
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Acika on December 28, 2017, 02:53:26 pm
I was there, on the roof, spectating the whole situation and i'll give you a verdict on this.

You are perfectly fine to shoot at cops who are engaging you:
a) directly(by chasing/shooting you)
b) indirectly(staying on the edge of minimap(not letting you escape), barricading and locking down the whole building where the suspect(s) is)

The situation was as follows. Few suspects inside 4D and 5 cops outside. Cops placed scripted barriers and were aiming at door.

What does that mean? -> They are not letting suspects escape.
Which means what? -> Suspects are being engaged.
Means what? -> They are free to shoot.

The only way to escape is to gun your way out of the scenery unless you die in the process.

The fact that you were caught off guard, that at the very moment you stopped aiming at the door (cause you were gathering additional weaponary from the Rancher) suspects ran out and started shooting, is my work. I called out for them and told them it's the perfect timing.

Otherwise, if you just kept aiming at the door like you were doing, you'd probably kill them.

Case closed. Punishments should be removed.

Thank you for reading.

Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 02:54:25 pm
Server rules clearly say you aren't allowed to shoot on sight without roleplay, whether you're suspected, a cop, or whatever you are considered as unless a roleplay was done before, and in this case nothing was done.
Server rules say that?

Quote
Deathmatching is defined as attacking another player without a role-play reason and is strictly prohibited.
Did we have a reason? Yes, we did. Was the reason valid? Pretty sure a suspect can shoot a cop that is engaging him, can he not?

According to an HQ member whom I spoke to yesterday: "You can go out and shoot at the cops if you are wanted, but we prefer for people inside to try and RP instead, same for cops."

Now let's be very clear about PREFERING, and DISALLOWING. There's a difference, and that difference you fail to see.

Quote
If you are with another member of your current group/family/gang and they are wanted and you are not you may assist them in holding off the law, as long as you were present at that exact moment and not 300 feet away.  The same can apply if you are in a vehicle with someone who is wanted and you are not, you may open fire as you yourself have been attacked there-fore allowed to shoot back.  This only applies if you were in the vehicle at that time.
I may assist them. There. Because I wasn't a suspect, by script, does not mean I wasn't committing any crimes, or aiding, or anything for that matter.



I'm not saying Gandalf is wrong, but I'm saying you quoting that in this situation is totally wrong. You guys killed most of cops outside and few of the last ones shot once they found themselves alone. This doens't mean what you done at start is clear and it doesn't mean you did it correct.
Well Gandalf said that, he didn't  say if you are in this situation or that, he said if you shoot back it's no longer DM. Did anyone in the scene report us for DM?

Yes I was going to convince you and just talk to you about this situation without issuing any punishment; But just like everyone else gets warned for situations like this one, I can't make an exception otherwise I wouldn't be fair, would I?
No problem with the warning, I knew that was coming as everyone else got warned. I went as far as even get ready to be banned about it. :)
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 02:57:35 pm
You were reported yes.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 03:00:19 pm
You were reported yes.
Okay answer the rest of the post now, and also this one:

Tell me what would you have done, and what would be accepted within your rules ( because the server rules are clear ), so that we wouldn't have gotten punished?

P.S: Three out of 5 on that place have said it wasn't DM. If my math checks out, that's more than the majority, but there will always be butthurt people.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Jeremy. on December 28, 2017, 03:05:19 pm
You don't find excuses after you DM

We're bunch of DMers, have a look:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/r0kxnw38wl2kkhe/sa-mp-894.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/w7cp8vuv33m7ooe/sa-mp-897.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/s0wr534jgv8ubyd/sa-mp-900.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/gg7m373xuk0r4id/sa-mp-901.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/9w0ul5aobwbdcro/sa-mp-903.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/0f0p6tobz6io6zt/sa-mp-905.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/0p0nz9l5j94zjb1/sa-mp-906.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/gafuub93asn3vxw/sa-mp-907.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/j5edx3y7qwuvcl9/sa-mp-908.png?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/igj0csgue2v9b1z/sa-mp-910.png?dl=0)
(https://i.imgur.com/EQPtzfz.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/xbDBAMl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/tOQ5ZAO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/t0nimY7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/rYWH5hw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/fOPqE2Y.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/FZyiU39.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/UsHrkKa.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wP9p0Qv.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/XKOFYrT.jpg)
+18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg4YOr4lUH0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wn-2Irsdg4
(https://i.imgur.com/XbhqKyL.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/5jRVj7W.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/2CznyZB.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wpjTF6i.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Hb3TVZV.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/EO4lLFS.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/aDzfLEo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/1FltiHy.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Cml6lLn.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/R4Ar4pr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/i9dnBLL.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/guHDSZl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/I7ZOG3K.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/uvECUdR.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8dEGqkd.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/A66juNT.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Fn8S9W7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/YpFzuMq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/5SsAhWv.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/slXAZkq.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y7lytZt.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/DVlmgVV.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/rJjYGht.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/uUvmt0j.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/CpOxbgt.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Syqcjbt.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TCIRpjQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/murRA2g.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/F4bLITw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9vTX2EB.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/KAPXstp.png?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/Oz4DXyA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Iq0LwYW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/b3gvcEP.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/zHTNxuI.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/My6lXok.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/UIFcvVH.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/KiDGuRP.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/yN6KPNL.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TOvtvUA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/D9kMoxX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TxLtbHW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/rqfXOPC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9Vlear8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/VaeCSPm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/WUuCWus.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/O4zDr2Y.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/T8NiIzz.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/OaColA3.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/sk8ytDa.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZKmsYuZ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/iP7w2hi.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6V9xjDk.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/O83UsET.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZZ6gXHG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/nY4PqeY.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/DU2Nazr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/F40dZV0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/4EmuI0K.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/tGYEvNN.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/216TDSf.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/95tMSHG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/NWCq1ie.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ULxeHSA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/SuvmzTI.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/rOYZRSe.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9ZNDFZu.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3sF1lKy.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/doGg7L0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/vspQfhC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/hIl6ETC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/0fgM9fc.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/WIM6lcZ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/euYhVVV.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/g9icVrh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/nDzVMVw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6LAwmJ7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/njhYhWn.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/0vx3AFQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3OowDM5.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/0Pm6gs9.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/jIFOc4h.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/W1W5TxU.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/uwUaekO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/f0gDQhA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/56kaXxU.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8WZrnPd.png)

In that spoiler we've put effort and spent time which, trust me, you couldn't even think of. Now, you show up out of nowhere and claim my group doing pure deathmatching. There is proof of hard work and dedication which you'll never be able to understand. We had a talk twice, both times you were clearly looking for a reason to punish us. Now, let me tell you how things went. You showed with the group outside, you started spectating us even if no one reported anybody so you could see what's going on inside. If you saw the FBI agent avoiding roleplay, YOU could avoid all of this happening by YOU teleporting him back inside the casino and ROLEPLAY as required.

Now, to enlight you. You expect us to roleplay after we murdered police officers, mkay. But you don't expect the FBI agent to comply while he is surrounded by heavily armed mobsters inside the casino? He had a gun pointed upon him, he has been told to STOP several times. If you claim he ignored roleplaying because Djole did knife animation then you just proved how biased are you. Why? Because pressing H whilst doing knife animation sounds as script abusing to avoid being killed, let's not forget the TOTALLY IGNORING ROLEPLAY. YOU could interfere, NOBODY issued a report, you just did your acts by your "seeing" but you never wanted to listen to our side of story even if it was explained, BOTH times. (See first post last spoiler). Your point was totally obvious, to find a reason to punish just because cop side lost.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 04:08:13 pm
Just to clarify something for you, Jeremy.
I never said your group are bunch of DMers, I never said you guys have no intention to roleplay and all you are doing is DM, I never said you don't know how to roleplay neither said you don't want to roleplay. I've reacted to a situation I've seen wrong, after complaints I've received, and the outcome of the investigation was this.

Now just because you were punished it doesn't mean you're bunch of DMers. We all do mistakes and we all learn from them. As for you saying this is a mistake, I still am not convinced by your argument (and Stivi's), because I'm pretty sure  you could have used other ways out instead of killing everyone outside.

And yes, I do mistakes as well and I admit when I do them and learn from them, no one is perfect. Now this doesn't mean I'm saying my punishment is a mistake, but just to make you understand I'm not trying to run away from anything I've done.

Okay answer the rest of the post now, and also this one:

P.S: Three out of 5 on that place have said it wasn't DM. If my math checks out, that's more than the majority, but there will always be butthurt people.

You're here for longer than me, you're experienced more than me and seen more situations than I did. You should know how to make your way out.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Hevar. on December 28, 2017, 04:24:39 pm
shit Younes joined 2014, now i understand why he doesn't know what im talking about when i told him about SAPD in 2010
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Ben. on December 28, 2017, 04:28:35 pm
Think we're drifting off-topic a little here, chaps.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Shultz on December 28, 2017, 04:37:24 pm
Instead of going out like retards and killing all of them, you guys could simply have called one of them and explain them the consequence of their actions. But you all decided to go out and show your quality Gvardia roleplay.
As for the punishment, consider yourselves lucky as one of the most calm and mature admin was handling your case. If it was KHm or astaroth for example, you guys would simply have ended up in unban section crying for unban.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Hevar. on December 28, 2017, 04:38:42 pm
Instead of going out like retards and killing all of them, you guys could simply have called one of them and explain them the consequence of their actions. But you all decided to go out and show your quality Gvardia roleplay.
As for the punishment, consider yourselves lucky as one of the most calm and mature admin was handling your case. If it was KHm or astaroth for example, you guys would simply have ended up in unban section crying for unban.

No provoke please, keep this topic clean!
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 28, 2017, 04:56:32 pm
Let's not turn this into a fighting post please. If you want to give your opinion, give it in a civil way and keep the provocation out of it. No one wants to hear what hate you got against a group. If you got something against them then man up and talk to them like a normal person does.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Arslan on December 28, 2017, 05:17:33 pm
Damn, 6 pages in one night. We still got it!  :cowboy:
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Stivi on December 28, 2017, 05:32:58 pm
You're here for longer than me, you're experienced more than me and seen more situations than I did. You should know how to make your way out.
Right, spot on. And all these years, this isn't the first time I've done this. So, yeah I did make my way out. Any of us died? Nah. Did it work? Yes. Should we have been punished? Hmm.. don't think so.

I'd still prefer I know what you would like me do. Just tell me one fucking scenario, see how that would have held up. Because 8+ heavily armed criminals against 5 cops, seems like the most optimal solution to me.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Huntsman on December 29, 2017, 12:08:38 am
How things have changed here..
Back when I was active in SAMP, if an official law enforcement member shown such inability to roleplay, he'd probably be fired. From what I can assertain this entire situation was refusing to roleplay which was pointed out long ago to be forbidden and a piss-poor RP by an FBI Agent who should be promoting roleplay rather than ruining it. Not to mention the bias towards ARPD by an administration member is something that would simply never have happened before therefore I find it extremely amusing. GG Andreas!!
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 29, 2017, 12:19:10 am
Not to mention the bias towards ARPD by an administration member is something that would simply never have happened before therefore I find it extremely amusing. GG Andreas!!

No one is biased towards any side. As I said before, I do not take sides neither believe someone over the other. I took actions upon seeing something myself. So instead of accusing me of being biased you should look for story behind and know the truth.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: jovanca on December 29, 2017, 12:23:46 am
No one is biased towards any side. As I said before, I do not take sides neither believe someone over the other. I took actions upon seeing something myself. So instead of accusing me of being biased you should look for story behind and know the truth.

The truth here is that you ignored all the facts. You ignored me 3 times on this topic, then replied to PM how i need to prove to you how exactly you were wrong. When i told you how, you ignored that too. You just won't accept the truth or you do accept it but still are trying to cover for your mistake.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Hevar. on December 29, 2017, 12:30:00 am
How things have changed here..
Back when I was active in SAMP, if an official law enforcement member shown such inability to roleplay, he'd probably be fired. From what I can assertain this entire situation was refusing to roleplay which was pointed out long ago to be forbidden and a piss-poor RP by an FBI Agent who should be promoting roleplay rather than ruining it. Not to mention the bias towards ARPD by an administration member is something that would simply never have happened before therefore I find it extremely amusing. GG Andreas!!

well sadly SAPD is caos now, its out of controll and dying. There is more FBI agents than SAPD due FBI have strong and active leadership

Back in days in 2010,

* Applicants had feedback from SAPD to improve their skills and repair those mistakes they mad untill cadet
* Active leadership, due the inactive leadership even SWAT is inactive and you cant see them in action, i once saw FBI requested it 3 times but no reply from SWAT
* SAPD makes their own rules, when there is a sticked board and the person comes up with his own stuff and doesnt follow it and accepting people like he want it
* People getting promotion fast without seen them active and or in any RP scene

Oh gosh, i miss SAPD in 2010!!!!!
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Kacper_Gorski on December 29, 2017, 12:30:33 am
Whats the title of this bible?
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 29, 2017, 12:34:25 am
This should be my final reply to this topic because it's obviously getting no where besides you guys trying to show a bad picture of mine so I feel guilty for it, but let me tell you this won't happen and you can continue it wherever you want.

Again if you feel I've done wrong, you can simply talk to a manger or who's higher than me (even senior administrators) about this case and I accept any kind of approach that is done towards me. I even accepted your topic and I'm still here trying to have a constructive argument with you but you just choose to directly insult and provoke, and yes your way of talking was never nice and if you think managers are choosing players to enforce the rules while themselves don't know about them, why do you think they'd listen to someone who's himself banned?
You may think I'm ignoring your replies but I've read every single reply made to this topic. Just because I didn't respond to it doesn't mean I didn't read it or accept it. What I'm telling you is that the situation wasn't justified to escalate this way and I still see this as DM unless enough proofs are given to me. "this is how Argonath works", while rules literally say you cannot shoot someone on sight without giving them chance to interact (not to shoot you just so you don't get me wrong). You guys have been complaining about the continuous DM in the server and when an action is taken you moan why it was. You look for a better server without DM but you just don't realize you're the ones completely biased here, saying something and denying it afterwards.


Sorry Hevar but I know what's the single reason behind all your replies here. Just because you weren't accepted in SAPD but let's not turn this topic to a conversation about you.

Whats the title of this bible?

Holy story of argonath.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Kacper_Gorski on December 29, 2017, 12:48:54 am
about a member  joins Argonath 2014 then joins SAPD and suddenly Captain and leading it hahaha

@Younes and btw,,,nah i withdraw and now i understand why everyone leaves and goes to FBI =)
You would be more hurt than you already are.... If you did get accepted..
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Julio. on December 29, 2017, 12:51:09 am
well sadly SAPD is caos now, its out of controll and dying. There is more FBI agents than SAPD due FBI have strong and active leadership

Back in days in 2010,

* Applicants had feedback from SAPD to improve their skills and repair those mistakes they mad untill cadet
* Active leadership, due the inactive leadership even SWAT is inactive and you cant see them in action, i once saw FBI requested it 3 times but no reply from SWAT
* SAPD makes their own rules, when there is a sticked board and the person comes up with his own stuff and doesnt follow it and accepting people like he want it
* People getting promotion fast without seen them active and or in any RP scene

Oh gosh, i miss SAPD in 2010!!!!!

Change is normal, and Younes is capable. MrTrane is active and an oldie. Command staff as far as I can see are also capable. If you've got a problem with how your SAPD application went, better to keep it private  :D

But yeah, this is seriously derailed now.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Hevar. on December 29, 2017, 12:51:16 am
You would be more hurt than you already are.... If you did get accepted..

schh...says that guy that has been SAPD application now for one month haha  #Freecopforever
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Kacper_Gorski on December 29, 2017, 12:53:00 am
schh...says that guy that has been SAPD application now for one month haha  #Freecopforever
Says the clown who bumlicked sapd to get in, yet you still failed! :hah:
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Hevar. on December 29, 2017, 12:53:37 am
Change is normal, and Younes is capable. MrTrane is active and an oldie. Command staff as far as I can see are also capable. If you've got a problem with hiw your SAPD application went, better to keep it private  :D

But yeah, this is seriously derailed now.

Loooool hahahaha i hope ur not serious but okey if you think so lets keep it like that hahaha walla this should be a netflix serie in comedy section
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Younes on December 29, 2017, 12:54:14 am
Let's not.. please.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Hevar. on December 29, 2017, 12:54:47 am
Says the clown who bumlicked sapd to get in, yet you still failed! :hah:

as i said SAPD in 2010 was different than now, but i already been Cadet and still we are here and you still not cadet. so schh go focus on ur =RP= group when there is no damn RP
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Julio. on December 29, 2017, 01:06:33 am
Time to drop it
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Kessu on December 29, 2017, 01:08:48 am
I don't usually step in to SA:MP General territory but I'll remind you of the forum rules. They apply even in this topic.

Continue discussing it in a civil manner or the topic will go poof and users will be warned.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: .Mario. on December 29, 2017, 01:37:46 am



Well Gandalf said that, he didn't  say if you are in this situation or that, he said if you shoot back it's no longer DM. Did anyone in the scene report us for DM?

Could you provide a quote of that statement from Gandalf? I will use it against two administrators who punished 5 Sopranos for DM after the other party already shot us back. After they died, they happen to report us for “DM”.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Khm on December 29, 2017, 02:08:38 am
Pretty outdated and rules have changed plenty of times.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Andeey on December 29, 2017, 02:18:56 am
Let me shut this shit down for you, Real quick.. Real smooth and of course real SIMPLE.


It's sad that a certain somebody who was told over discord that the situation in itself wasn't Deathmatch is still here calling people "Dmers" like a child.

From reading the full logs and reviewing the situation, There was a police officer who was very keen to provoke a group of Potential suspects, Even as shown denying roleplay and continuing to sit outside with backup and waiting for a shitshow of bullets to happen when it could have been prevented.

Sure maybe the situation would have ended in gunfire regardless of what happened but hey why don't we all take a step back from our high horse and stop assuming what's going to happen throughout every single roleplay just because of a players name or tag/status?

Another thing in this scenario is, When you're outnumbered you shouldn't go and try take on a large quantity of suspects without manpower of firepower, Without the proper roleplay and co-operation between both sides its only going to end one way and you all know it.
If a single cop walks into a casino filled with known criminals and a wanted criminal what the fuck do you expect to happen?  The large group of most likely infamous criminals are just going to shit their pants and lay down their weapons to the likes of one officer?

No. That cop deserves to be kidnapped for being idiotic and having no sense of logic, Sorry mind my tone im just fed up with people trying to act all innocent when really they are causing all the issues by their stupidity.


End of the day this situation and the punishments are being expunged, And yeah as there already is, People are going to go out on their tough guy posts "he only did it because his allies are involved" "same people as always" I will personally telll you all to just shut it, Literally your posts and obvious need for attention is not needed in this forum or community.
We are all just trying to fix a bad situation and we do not need any of your bullshit accusations to add to the shitstorm that has rained down.

Now if you have any further questions you may Forum PM me or discord me (Andeey#0926)
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Arslan on December 29, 2017, 02:25:58 am
I'm glad someone from HQ has given an objective view on the situation AFTER actually analysing the situation. Thanks Andeey.
Title: Re: Clear rules for everyone
Post by: Claudia on December 29, 2017, 06:20:00 am
Just lock this topic...
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