Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Mircea_Niko on March 12, 2019, 04:14:17 pm

Title: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Mircea_Niko on March 12, 2019, 04:14:17 pm
Few days ago FBI has responded to 4 evading Gvardias in a Sultan, one of them being Antonio - why is this aspect important, I'm getting there. After a long search and chase, we (FBI) finally caught up to them and shot their Sultan, while before exploding, Antonio bailed out and fell behind us, while we took out the other 3. Then we were picked off one by one by Antonio, which managed to kill all 4 of us and reach an RHL of 90 minutes - why is this important aswell, I'm getting there. This happened in the morning somewhere. Later that day, in the evening, after at least 8 hours I assume, the police radio was mentioning Antonio on the run, wanted for murder. Me with another 3 agents, some of them that died in the morning, went to respond, clueless that Antonio was still wanted since morning. Some officers said they can't respond because they already died by him and his aiders, but we didn't know they were those dead since the morning. It would've been absurd, as we took that in consideration too, but thought it's way too far fetched for this to happen and nevertheless, we were considering the 3-hour-return-after-death rule, which countless times was mentioned by Admins, Helpers, Moderators, Managers, even Community Leaders that it applies to everyone. It's difficult for me to name them since it's been told to us ever since cops weren't allowed to return after death anymore. Nevertheless, after almost 30-40min of looking for Antonio, the radio popped in a message saying that Zlatan has jailed him for 15 seconds. It's needless to say that FBI and SAPD filled the radio with rageful messages, and rightfully, as we spent so much time looking for Antonio and one freecop, Zlatan, decides not to give a damn and just jail him for 15sec, saying afterwards that it was meant for 150 - this, considering that for murder you get 200. We told him to stay at LVPD until FBI and SAPD Command arrived, but he left and we found him injured or some sort infront of 5 Gvardias, Antonio included, at 4 Dragons Casino. After a massive response and a short roleplay, he was sent to LV Hospital but not before David taking his badge off and confiscating his gun, following to copban him. After dying in LV Hospital due to the wounds, Zlatan was copbanned in all due rights, with all the roleplay required. But then, the moaning nation attacked..
People asked me why was Zlatan copbanned, and our answer was simple: corruption charges, failure to abide by instructions given by SAPD and FBI Commands, abuse in service. We had both IC and OOC evidence for those, as ICly there was ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to get Antonio jailed without communicating in the radio after it was shitspammed for the last 40min of looking for Antonio, and jail him for 150sec as he reasoned his 15sec misstype, because murder gets you 200 at least. Later in OOC, during the 4 Dragons roleplay, he said that he sold his rights and freedom for 10k.. which is absolutely ridiculous if you ask me but whatever, let's stay objective.
Basically everyone complained that Zlatan's copban is invalid, because we were not supposed to chase Antonio in the first place, because we were dead, and considering we were dead, Antonio being jailed by Zlatan, who was alive, we weren't supposed to exist, therefor we were not supposed to communicate in the radio about the situation, nor ask for explanations from Zlatan, nor order him to stay at LVPD, nor roleplay at 4 Dragons, nor copban him. Therefor by that logic, people told me to lift his copban since it was abusive and invalid.
All I have to say about this is What the flying shitfuck?
How the fuck are cops supposed to know if he got killed by X 30 days ago, and 30 days later X gets back active and still can't be chased because by absurdity, all cops on the server online at that time died by him, and therefor cannot return.
Why only yesterday Goobii came and told us that the 3 hours rule apply only for gang wars?
Why in all these years we were told and apparently lied that this 3 hours rule only applies to gang wars?
Why in the fuck nobody did a thing or moaned about any of such chases and situations, in which cops returned after 3 hours or more?
This is highly abusive towards cops, as we keep getting nerfed and nerfed.
*for those who will comment about /weaponequip, hold your horses*
Nowadays most criminals are abusing GM constantly, aswell as PM. Two weeks ago I was undercover as FBI and was watching a standoff between Jovanca and two cops, and Jovanca was constantly walking around, failing to roleplay at all, until a Burrito arrived and its driver PMing me "Are you ready to kill the cop? Wait for Jovanca's signal." And this happened for a mere 2v2 situation, so don't tell me people aren't abusing GM. Or so many stalling roleplay by asking "WHAT I DO OFFICER I SPAKE LANGUEAGE OF GODS YES ENGLUFGH I DID NUTFFIN G " then /cb HELP COPS ON ME PERSHING COME ANA ANA ANA ANA ANALFUCKINGANAL" These shits happen more often day by day, but still, cops are the ones abusing, cops are the ones overpowered, because not everyone can afford a performance rig to record at the same time, so those people take advantage of this.
Also what the fuck is going on with the shitspam of grenades and RPGs? What is this, freeroam? TDM? Well yes it's TDM, and yes, I wouldn't mind RPG and heavy weapons usage, if cops had something to counter them with. HA has strict regulations, since CBF is gone Rhino RPs are also gone, and most of the time SAPD or FBI CMD isn't available to issue heavy weaponry, therefor in the face of 10 heavily armed Gvardias 3-4 freecops are left with Deagle and Baton. And even when FBI and SAPD are outnumbering criminals, there are still problems, because few days ago, there was a ratio of 14 cops, with Snipers and M4s and whatnot, against 7-8 criminals at Fort Carson weed field. After a 30min prep, we circled them and they have retreated into the cover of a shack. We could've killed them off easily if it wasn't for some random bikers that came behind the Cluckin Bell and started sniping. Who were they? Why were they here? How did they get here? I thought that criminals aren't allowed to join situations already developing, only cops, and even then, admins are punishing those cops. And few days ago 4 criminals came in barricading themselves along with others already barricaded, after the perimeter was secured already, with all cops preparing for breaching. They were rushing without interacting at all, and what administration did? NOTHING. Because apparently, now they can!  I respect the administration of the server, but this is not fair at all, being told something for years then being told otherwise, AND getting punsihed for it, AND losing and ruining the situation for it.
Technically speaking, I could get 20 people with me and they could protect me while I kill off anyone and everyone on the server, getting the RHL up to let's say, 365 days. What, unless I die, I won't be able to be engaged for a full year until I'm escaping? The system is flowed, and heavily abusive towards us, cops. We should not be forced to ask admins if X died days ago and we can engage. And we won't, because half of the answers would be "3 hours passed you can go" and others would be "Why the fuck do you even ask me that, you know the rules" then getting Gvardia or other numerous criminals that can easily win situations argue with me while I'm trying to defend the tiniest drop of advantage we might still have. Everything is a mess, everyone is confused, especially administration, and this could seriously harm the server.
I seriously propose those with RHL bigger than 60 minutes to get unsuspected because this is unacceptable, it will always reach this stupid stalemate that will last until somebody sets proper rules or the system is changed. And this isn't a threat, but the only way we can ever respond to other suspects if numerous Gvardias that keep getting OPd day by day, with their money and members, will keep getting such high RHLs, being the most active mafia. That would render even considering them to anything useless for us, so even interacting with them would raise questions that already are raised within SAPD and FBI. Yes, we think twice before engaging Gvardia, and thus the latter complains about nobody RPing with them, it's about this flawed system that would always end situations against our favor, always.
Also not to mention "this is a new situation". It would take 10min for an admin to confirm, AT LEAST, then settling out the moaning parties, then preparing for engagement, from both sides, up until the suspects already escaped. Cops really lost everything to this game? And people complain that there are too many cops, because IT'S USELESS. There can be even 100 cops, and they can be taken down easily by Gvardias or Hagens which are equipped with Heavy Weaponry, and what do cops get? Chum change snipers and proposals of removing /weaponequip?
This is fucking insanity.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Spike. on March 12, 2019, 04:21:12 pm
Remove rhl. The system is stupid and encourages cops to rush to kill/jail instead of RPing.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Chris Collin on March 12, 2019, 04:23:27 pm
Remove rhl. The system is stupid and encourages cops to rush to kill/jail instead of RPing.

+1, recommend to remove RHL or  improve the system regarding this matter.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Mircea_Niko on March 12, 2019, 04:24:35 pm
Remove rhl. The system is stupid and encourages cops to rush to kill/jail instead of RPing.

Think it's needless to say but +1, that's the entire point of my topic.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: jovanca on March 12, 2019, 04:26:28 pm
yea, you buys just keep hunting and shooting people and issue invalid ban on the ones who actually bother to rp some, good job  :app:
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Mircea_Niko on March 12, 2019, 04:28:12 pm
yea, you buys just keep hunting and shooting people and issue invalid ban on the ones who actually bother to rp some, good job  :app:

Honestly you shouldn't generalize. The copban was worth it, and valid, if it wasn't for the RHL situation with Antonio.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: jovanca on March 12, 2019, 04:31:31 pm
yea, you buys just keep hunting and shooting people and issue invalid ban on the ones who actually bother to rp some, good job  :app:

Honestly you shouldn't generalize. The copban was worth it, and valid, if it wasn't for the RHL situation with Antonio.

'if it wasnt for..'  right. And no, i'm not generalizing. I'm talking based on what ive seen each and every one of you do in game. You were the one to follow me and the other gangsters with a heli on the day i got banned. Imagine that, low profile gang bangers without armors being followed by the FBI director in a heli. You are ruining very little roleplay that's left on the server
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Cofiliano on March 12, 2019, 04:31:35 pm
Yeah lets return Argonath into the dark age, why not, it suits you guys more, and its more convenient.  How 'bout we completely remove the /sus and as well as auto-sus script, so people do not know if a pedestrian has done something or not at all, that would balance it up and force you guys to roleplay and not to rush for kill, since that's your concern.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Spike. on March 12, 2019, 04:38:11 pm
yea, you buys just keep hunting and shooting people and issue invalid ban on the ones who actually bother to rp some, good job  :app:

Right, it's not like criminals shoot on sight. They are always eager to role-play, specially when it comes to weed fields.

https://youtu.be/f7ZBJ0lRMhs

Of course, unlike you generalising all cops. I'm not going to generalise every criminal group because some of them do roleplay such as the FLA, which actually give us some good crime scenes to roleplay on such as the one below:

(https://i.imgur.com/QzTehJU.jpg)

But since you like sharing this video (https://youtu.be/sfsccGBJXhk) so much. I wonder if you guys were going there to "roleplay". What were the police supposed to do when a group of individuals, with their faces covered show up to an area being occupied by armed police? Say hello and wait for you to shoot them in the face?

Yeah lets return Argonath into the dark age, why not, it suits you guys more, and its more convenient.  How 'bout we completely remove the /sus and as well as auto-sus script, so people do not know if a pedestrian has done something or not at all, that would balance it up and force you guys to roleplay and not to rush for kill, since that's your concern.

Fine by me, so long as a proper charges system is added and that is recorded.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Mircea_Niko on March 12, 2019, 04:41:51 pm
yea, you buys just keep hunting and shooting people and issue invalid ban on the ones who actually bother to rp some, good job  :app:

Honestly you shouldn't generalize. The copban was worth it, and valid, if it wasn't for the RHL situation with Antonio.

'if it wasnt for..'  right. And no, i'm not generalizing. I'm talking based on what ive seen each and every one of you do in game. You were the one to follow me and the other gangsters with a heli on the day i got banned. Imagine that, low profile gang bangers without armors being followed by the FBI director in a heli. You are ruining very little roleplay that's left on the server

I don't see how me being FBI Director and doing my FBI duties has anything to do with roleplay? My rank is only for coordinating agents on the field and for representing the chain of command, but I'm still an agent, and I have the DUTY, not RIGHT, to perform on the field. Why would I not engage you? You were within Federal boundaries of engagement, I did engage you, I don't see the problem. It's like saying Cofi can't join a shootout because he's the Don and should sit his butt on the chair with a cigar while his Capos lead the mob on the field.
And for ruining roleplay, I have few things to ask you: What is a 207? What does 10-76 mean? What is the callsign if an unit is alone or paired in a cruiser? What are the 7 steps in a processing? How is evidence valid? What is the passenger seat order while seated? What are the miranda rights? What are the 5 core values of FBI? Who are the past Chiefs of SAPD? COPS HAVE A SHITLOAD TO STUDY FOR! If you thought SAPD had lots, now imagine FBI that also does very mutinous investigations, plus having to study twice or thrice as much, considering the difficulty of our duties. And without those, we cannot go on the field. At all. What, you thought that 10-76 is a random number combination? All codes you see in /help tencodes have to be learned by SAPD, else they can't perform on the field and will get punished by Command. FBI is supposed to learn, at last check, over 50 pages of theory in its Academy, that's lasting well over 3 months. And all this is useless since most criminals nowadays only shoot cops at weed fields and evade from traffic stops, and when asked about drugs there have to be 5 admins online to confirm he has and is not lying, or Chester with K9 unit, because 2 will say they can't 2 will say that he has but can't say how much and 1 is AFK, while Chester also has his SAPD duties to handle. You have no idea how much RP goes into copwork, YET, WE ARE STILL, THE ONES, GETTING SHITTED ON.

Yeah lets return Argonath into the dark age, why not, it suits you guys more, and its more convenient.  How 'bout we completely remove the /sus and as well as auto-sus script, so people do not know if a pedestrian has done something or not at all, that would balance it up and force you guys to roleplay and not to rush for kill, since that's your concern.

The MDC and APB system was a nice addition, but sadly incomplete. A balance between those two would be the best, and also using 911 more to report crimes rather than trying to deal with them yourself or trying to call cops off a field.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: jovanca on March 12, 2019, 04:51:08 pm
nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Hevar. on March 12, 2019, 04:51:22 pm
Everytime outside Gvardia HQ, its like this haha

(https://aelarsen.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/3003.jpg)
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Mircea_Niko on March 12, 2019, 04:51:43 pm
nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it

I'm really cringing and feel so sorry you haven't seen 0.1 percent of what SAPD and FBI can roleplay.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: jovanca on March 12, 2019, 04:53:27 pm
nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it

I'm really cringing and feel so sorry you haven't seen 0.1 percent of what SAPD and FBI can roleplay.

i tried, but all you ever do is deathmatch when im around.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Mircea_Niko on March 12, 2019, 05:00:03 pm
nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it

I'm really cringing and feel so sorry you haven't seen 0.1 percent of what SAPD and FBI can roleplay.

i tried, but all you ever do is deathmatch when im around.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125915.0
Funny
Now let's keep the topic on topic
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: jovanca on March 12, 2019, 05:07:54 pm
nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it

I'm really cringing and feel so sorry you haven't seen 0.1 percent of what SAPD and FBI can roleplay.

i tried, but all you ever do is deathmatch when im around.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125915.0
Funny
Now let's keep the topic on topic

You're the one going off the topic. And i do not appreciate the way you're running your mouth about me on discord.

To get back to the topic, you are incapable of playing and leading your group properly with the same system that worked for years. The problem is obviously in you. I suggest you just resign yourself before you destroy the reputation and the group itself even more.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Stivi on March 12, 2019, 05:12:55 pm
If help is called through RP then people don't have to come interact with you and tell you that you are going to be killed because they are "hired" help. They have RPed with others. You are military IRL, you know people shoot at you without telling you that you are going to get shot right? That's how hitmen work as well. And even street fights, if I see my boys get jumped best believe I'm not going to be talking to those guys.

Let's talk. Tell me the "3 hour rule". Because I haven't been active since last summer, but I have been around long enough to know about that rule as well, unlike a lot of people here. The rule was added because of the constant shootouts Gvardia and Soprano were having. At that point even Corleone were fighting either group, so shit got complicated and it got complicated quickly. At any given day we couldn't keep track of who was dead and alive because honestly it didn't even matter, we were at war (but we were not trying to get punished either.) So what happened was one group would attack another group when numbers were greater. Now as soon as one side killed the other, the losing side would give word that they got killed and the rest should avenge them. So a couple hours later people would log in and walk up to the other group and kill them because "you killed my brothers".

Clearly the HQ had enough, report cases weren't even being handled and this rule was introduced.

The rule says the LOSING side has 3 hours to RETALIATE. (Retaliation, for those who don't have a single fucking clue what it means, is attacking as revenge or response to a previous attack)
Nowhere is it written that this means after 3 hours the RP has ended and you can RETURN. You can NOT return after death, period. Come at me admins, it's your rules you don't even know how to enforce. So yes I will speak out and call bullshit on rules that don't exist, but you call it moaning legion. Sure bud, I'm not offended, I'm just angry because it's not us making these topics. (Additionally, is it moaning if I still say it's unfair after winning?)

You're eager to win and that isn't any good, let's have a proper discussion on Discord or even here if the topic isn't locked before I get back home, where you and I both reply to ALL points, and then see who is right or wrong.




About Zlatan, I honestly don't even talk to the guy,it was just funny how he got fucked by the same cops that Antonio killed, and it looked like you guys were butthurt about it, hence the arguments in /p



Unsuspecting someone means they don't get notoriety and can be further sued in court if the police wishes to pursue it, and that isn't how the rules work.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Mircea_Niko on March 12, 2019, 05:31:28 pm
nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it

I'm really cringing and feel so sorry you haven't seen 0.1 percent of what SAPD and FBI can roleplay.

i tried, but all you ever do is deathmatch when im around.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125915.0
Funny
Now let's keep the topic on topic

You're the one going off the topic. And i do not appreciate the way you're running your mouth about me on discord.

To get back to the topic, you are incapable of playing and leading your group properly with the same system that worked for years. The problem is obviously in you. I suggest you just resign yourself before you destroy the reputation and the group itself even more.

...and that comes from a criminal that has zero idea how FBI works? That's like those SJW commenting on Obama YouTube videos about how to be a president, or those people on 9gag that have to retaliate at everything. I'm on the server, been leading FBI and keep developing it for the last 3 years that I've been in the Upper Command, and will continue to do so, so I mind my own job. Meanwhile, you should mind yours, of a mobster, a criminal, or a gangster, whatever. You are currently banned, I am not, that clearly speaks for itself about who's the shame of the group. Let's not turn this provocative.

If help is called through RP then people don't have to come interact with you and tell you that you are going to be killed because they are "hired" help. They have RPed with others. You are military IRL, you know people shoot at you without telling you that you are going to get shot right? That's how hitmen work as well. And even street fights, if I see my boys get jumped best believe I'm not going to be talking to those guys.

Let's talk. Tell me the "3 hour rule". Because I haven't been active since last summer, but I have been around long enough to know about that rule as well, unlike a lot of people here. The rule was added because of the constant shootouts Gvardia and Soprano were having. At that point even Corleone were fighting either group, so shit got complicated and it got complicated quickly. At any given day we couldn't keep track of who was dead and alive because honestly it didn't even matter, we were at war (but we were not trying to get punished either.) So what happened was one group would attack another group when numbers were greater. Now as soon as one side killed the other, the losing side would give word that they got killed and the rest should avenge them. So a couple hours later people would log in and walk up to the other group and kill them because "you killed my brothers".

Clearly the HQ had enough, report cases weren't even being handled and this rule was introduced.

The rule says the LOSING side has 3 hours to RETALIATE. (Retaliation, for those who don't have a single fucking clue what it means, is attacking as revenge or response to a previous attack)
Nowhere is it written that this means after 3 hours the RP has ended and you can RETURN. You can NOT return after death, period. Come at me admins, it's your rules you don't even know how to enforce. So yes I will speak out and call bullshit on rules that don't exist, but you call it moaning legion. Sure bud, I'm not offended, I'm just angry because it's not us making these topics. (Additionally, is it moaning if I still say it's unfair after winning?)

You're eager to win and that isn't any good, let's have a proper discussion on Discord or even here if the topic isn't locked before I get back home, where you and I both reply to ALL points, and then see who is right or wrong.




About Zlatan, I honestly don't even talk to the guy,it was just funny how he got fucked by the same cops that Antonio killed, and it looked like you guys were butthurt about it, hence the arguments in /p



Unsuspecting someone means they don't get notoriety and can be further sued in court if the police wishes to pursue it, and that isn't how the rules work.

I agree with what you said in the first paragraph, but it's still a game, with some grey areas, that can't be acted upon, and we can't compare always IRL with IG sadly, no matter how any of us would like to. I don't mind having a hitman on me, but make it properly, not so obvious, or don't provoke me afterwards HAHAHAHAH U GOT KILLED :D :D how it happens lately. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking in general, can't say names, I don't track such things, but I remember them.

Also, I don't mind losing! At all! I always tell my agents after dying not to get mad, not to get upset, not to drop morale, because they roleplayed and put in practice what they were supposed to, and that's all I care for. I don't mind dying, I don't give a damn about it, but I want to lose fairly, and I want to have a fair fight, without accessing grey areas and such or resorting to administration.

I know this isn't how rules work, but rules don't work at all. I honestly prefer unsuspecting someone with a huge RHL and having the chance to interact with or engage them again and assume myself a kick or a tempban instead of calling agents for a suspect, from their homework, from their studying, from outside, etc to respond (at their own will, not me forcing them to), and then finding out Antonio has 120min RHL, and standing 2-3 hours at LSFO waiting for him and Gvardia to escape so we can roleplay again. Because most crimes are related to Gvardia and Co nowadays, so the server's basically Cops vs Gvardia&Co, and it leads us to a dead end if half of the cops already died by them.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: jovanca on March 12, 2019, 05:37:50 pm
nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it

I'm really cringing and feel so sorry you haven't seen 0.1 percent of what SAPD and FBI can roleplay.

i tried, but all you ever do is deathmatch when im around.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125915.0
Funny
Now let's keep the topic on topic

You're the one going off the topic. And i do not appreciate the way you're running your mouth about me on discord.

To get back to the topic, you are incapable of playing and leading your group properly with the same system that worked for years. The problem is obviously in you. I suggest you just resign yourself before you destroy the reputation and the group itself even more.

...and that comes from a criminal that has zero idea how FBI works? That's like those SJW commenting on Obama YouTube videos about how to be a president, or those people on 9gag that have to retaliate at everything. I'm on the server, been leading FBI and keep developing it for the last 3 years that I've been in the Upper Command, and will continue to do so, so I mind my own job. Meanwhile, you should mind yours, of a mobster, a criminal, or a gangster, whatever. You are currently banned, I am not, that clearly speaks for itself about who's the shame of the group. Let's not turn this provocative.

If help is called through RP then people don't have to come interact with you and tell you that you are going to be killed because they are "hired" help. They have RPed with others. You are military IRL, you know people shoot at you without telling you that you are going to get shot right? That's how hitmen work as well. And even street fights, if I see my boys get jumped best believe I'm not going to be talking to those guys.

Let's talk. Tell me the "3 hour rule". Because I haven't been active since last summer, but I have been around long enough to know about that rule as well, unlike a lot of people here. The rule was added because of the constant shootouts Gvardia and Soprano were having. At that point even Corleone were fighting either group, so shit got complicated and it got complicated quickly. At any given day we couldn't keep track of who was dead and alive because honestly it didn't even matter, we were at war (but we were not trying to get punished either.) So what happened was one group would attack another group when numbers were greater. Now as soon as one side killed the other, the losing side would give word that they got killed and the rest should avenge them. So a couple hours later people would log in and walk up to the other group and kill them because "you killed my brothers".

Clearly the HQ had enough, report cases weren't even being handled and this rule was introduced.

The rule says the LOSING side has 3 hours to RETALIATE. (Retaliation, for those who don't have a single fucking clue what it means, is attacking as revenge or response to a previous attack)
Nowhere is it written that this means after 3 hours the RP has ended and you can RETURN. You can NOT return after death, period. Come at me admins, it's your rules you don't even know how to enforce. So yes I will speak out and call bullshit on rules that don't exist, but you call it moaning legion. Sure bud, I'm not offended, I'm just angry because it's not us making these topics. (Additionally, is it moaning if I still say it's unfair after winning?)

You're eager to win and that isn't any good, let's have a proper discussion on Discord or even here if the topic isn't locked before I get back home, where you and I both reply to ALL points, and then see who is right or wrong.




About Zlatan, I honestly don't even talk to the guy,it was just funny how he got fucked by the same cops that Antonio killed, and it looked like you guys were butthurt about it, hence the arguments in /p



Unsuspecting someone means they don't get notoriety and can be further sued in court if the police wishes to pursue it, and that isn't how the rules work.

I agree with what you said in the first paragraph, but it's still a game, with some grey areas, that can't be acted upon, and we can't compare always IRL with IG sadly, no matter how any of us would like to. I don't mind having a hitman on me, but make it properly, not so obvious, or don't provoke me afterwards HAHAHAHAH U GOT KILLED :D :D how it happens lately. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking in general, can't say names, I don't track such things, but I remember them.

Also, I don't mind losing! At all! I always tell my agents after dying not to get mad, not to get upset, not to drop morale, because they roleplayed and put in practice what they were supposed to, and that's all I care for. I don't mind dying, I don't give a damn about it, but I want to lose fairly, and I want to have a fair fight, without accessing grey areas and such or resorting to administration.

I know this isn't how rules work, but rules don't work at all. I honestly prefer unsuspecting someone with a huge RHL and having the chance to interact with or engage them again and assume myself a kick or a tempban instead of calling agents for a suspect, from their homework, from their studying, from outside, etc to respond (at their own will, not me forcing them to), and then finding out Antonio has 120min RHL, and standing 2-3 hours at LSFO waiting for him and Gvardia to escape so we can roleplay again. Because most crimes are related to Gvardia and Co nowadays, so the server's basically Cops vs Gvardia&Co, and it leads us to a dead end if half of the cops already died by them.

Now after bringing up the fact that im banned and saying i should have my mouth ripped off you're talking about no provoking?  You already crossed that line. As for my ban, i was frustrated after getting deathmatched countless times over the several few days, and i knifed one person in anger. It's nothing compared to what you and your people did just before my ban and what you usually do on daily basis
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Stivi on March 13, 2019, 12:10:40 am
If help is called through RP then people don't have to come interact with you and tell you that you are going to be killed because they are "hired" help. They have RPed with others. You are military IRL, you know people shoot at you without telling you that you are going to get shot right? That's how hitmen work as well. And even street fights, if I see my boys get jumped best believe I'm not going to be talking to those guys.

Let's talk. Tell me the "3 hour rule". Because I haven't been active since last summer, but I have been around long enough to know about that rule as well, unlike a lot of people here. The rule was added because of the constant shootouts Gvardia and Soprano were having. At that point even Corleone were fighting either group, so shit got complicated and it got complicated quickly. At any given day we couldn't keep track of who was dead and alive because honestly it didn't even matter, we were at war (but we were not trying to get punished either.) So what happened was one group would attack another group when numbers were greater. Now as soon as one side killed the other, the losing side would give word that they got killed and the rest should avenge them. So a couple hours later people would log in and walk up to the other group and kill them because "you killed my brothers".

Clearly the HQ had enough, report cases weren't even being handled and this rule was introduced.

The rule says the LOSING side has 3 hours to RETALIATE. (Retaliation, for those who don't have a single fucking clue what it means, is attacking as revenge or response to a previous attack)
Nowhere is it written that this means after 3 hours the RP has ended and you can RETURN. You can NOT return after death, period. Come at me admins, it's your rules you don't even know how to enforce. So yes I will speak out and call bullshit on rules that don't exist, but you call it moaning legion. Sure bud, I'm not offended, I'm just angry because it's not us making these topics. (Additionally, is it moaning if I still say it's unfair after winning?)

You're eager to win and that isn't any good, let's have a proper discussion on Discord or even here if the topic isn't locked before I get back home, where you and I both reply to ALL points, and then see who is right or wrong.




About Zlatan, I honestly don't even talk to the guy,it was just funny how he got fucked by the same cops that Antonio killed, and it looked like you guys were butthurt about it, hence the arguments in /p



Unsuspecting someone means they don't get notoriety and can be further sued in court if the police wishes to pursue it, and that isn't how the rules work.

I agree with what you said in the first paragraph, but it's still a game, with some grey areas, that can't be acted upon, and we can't compare always IRL with IG sadly, no matter how any of us would like to. I don't mind having a hitman on me, but make it properly, not so obvious, or don't provoke me afterwards HAHAHAHAH U GOT KILLED :D :D how it happens lately. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking in general, can't say names, I don't track such things, but I remember them.

Also, I don't mind losing! At all! I always tell my agents after dying not to get mad, not to get upset, not to drop morale, because they roleplayed and put in practice what they were supposed to, and that's all I care for. I don't mind dying, I don't give a damn about it, but I want to lose fairly, and I want to have a fair fight, without accessing grey areas and such or resorting to administration.

I know this isn't how rules work, but rules don't work at all. I honestly prefer unsuspecting someone with a huge RHL and having the chance to interact with or engage them again and assume myself a kick or a tempban instead of calling agents for a suspect, from their homework, from their studying, from outside, etc to respond (at their own will, not me forcing them to), and then finding out Antonio has 120min RHL, and standing 2-3 hours at LSFO waiting for him and Gvardia to escape so we can roleplay again. Because most crimes are related to Gvardia and Co nowadays, so the server's basically Cops vs Gvardia&Co, and it leads us to a dead end if half of the cops already died by them.
So you're not going to mention the 3 hour rules things? Does that mean you agree with what I said and that I am right? I also don't give a flying fuck about losing, not even notoriety, it was just an excuse so I could get a point across. The problem is I keep making these "accusations" or whatever even when WINNING. That's the fucking problem, and that's what you all fail to realize.

I said this in another topic, and you know I will be compliant in RP, so tell me who isn't and I'll handle them. I have no problem with you whatsoever. When I speak about cops I refer mostly to the SAPD, and I know Bas can RP and I also know a lot of those members of the SAPD can RP, the problem is they are too trigger-happy and would rather not.

I'll give you something I wrote on Bogomil's topic, but I "was pointing fingers" so he got it locked. That's the problem, we're not pointing fingers so the same people that cause this just figure out a smarter way to do what they do.

You all can moan about Gvardia and any criminal group but the fact is you have never caught us doing what we do other than shootouts. Bare with me, you'll see the point soon. We all know criminals grow weed fields, we all know criminals cook meth and order heroin. What you don't know is where the drugs go to. Who gets it all and throws it at the drug market? What's the price on drugs? How the fuck do criminals have 7 properties? Who is investigating that? No one. Why? The scripts, the rules and the law.

The automatic /su. Many times I do 10 damage and get a kill, but the people that did 190 get nothing and are according to the law, the rules and the script free to walk. Makes no sense, I agree. But as a criminal operating in gray areas, that's the best scenario for me. And that's why I "moan/cry/bitch" when I get killed not commiting any crimes, so you all take notice and say "Wait, he's right, I shouldn't have shot him, but it is bullshit." and create a discussion about it. The play 2 win mentality is not something I like. And I'm not a saint, however everything I have abused, like /mir, I could, and I did it. Sure it's bad, but maybe that will fix the issue that is the court right now.

The rule "once you escape that RP is over" and /rhl. You killed 7 people? Dope, you're free to go if you run for 7 minutes. Oh you have a 80min rhl? We can maybe jail you for 15 seconds do you're no longer suspected, because we can't return and it makes no sense.

The law. If I am jailed, I am jailed and that's it. Courts are really not useful and inactive. But certainly if I am jailed for 200 seconds by /jail, in court I would have gotten like 30minutes. Which would be a proper punishment.

These are the things that give you freedom in Argonath but also we're at a point where these are the things blocking us from doing anything. I mean, as a criminal, I'm all fine with a jail, because I can only be punished once for a crime, so I'm good, but it isn't fair. The fact I abuse these means I'm "smart" or intelligent enough to know how to abuse these, but it does suck and something should be done about it. It is though something Gandalf would be against of and I don't know how much we can move forward with any "no blips no /area no rhl no auto sus" things people throw around, HQ has to intervene.




Zlatan's copban, "if it wasn't for". Exactly, but it was for that. So uncopban him or apologize or whatever, but don't defend your actions. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense, it's not supposed to, the shit is complicated.

Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Kostas on March 13, 2019, 12:26:17 am
I read it all. I wont take part... you know this server would be kuch better without forums. So many ignorant people.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: neriionz on March 13, 2019, 01:49:32 am
We always return to the same conversation, everyone criticizes the rules, the criminal groups, the police and the lack of RP of the players but nobody or almost nobody that came here to post in these topics was interested to change in game. How many of you lately have only focused on RP? How long can you walk in your character without running or jumping around town without weapons? Change yourself first!



I read it all. I wont take part... you know this server would be kuch better without forums. So many ignorant people.
Nothing to add.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: jovanca on March 13, 2019, 02:13:50 am
Doesn't work like that.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on March 13, 2019, 02:49:52 am
Topic kinda pointless, bring it up with SAPD Internal Affairs - prosecute the officer. There are a lot more roleplay opportunities. Investigate the Gvardias who might have bribed him, bring in a case, investigate.

Not everything has to resolve with a /gu or a kill of one side or another. As much as everyone's trying, you guys should start doing less Conflict based RP and focus on long term character development. Keep things IC and don't go OOC over EVERY interaction you do.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Antonio. on March 13, 2019, 11:57:56 am
Quote
These shits happen more often day by day, but still, cops are the ones abusing, cops are the ones overpowered, because not everyone can afford a performance rig to record at the same time, so those people take advantage of this.
Also what the fuck is going on with the shitspam of grenades and RPGs? What is this, freeroam? TDM? Well yes it's TDM, and yes, I wouldn't mind RPG and heavy weapons usage, if cops had something to counter them with.
Cops have unlimited weapons which they don't have to pay for and a very active force at the moment (9 times out of 10, cops outnumber criminals), hence the usuage of heavy weaponry from the criminals' side. And lets be honest here, any freecop, cop, director, whatever that is responding will be equipped with full armour, sniper and m4, while criminals don't always have the ability to equip themselves with such, be it financially, but in my opinion due to the notoriety sytem which is very flawed (you lose it faster than you can get it),and on othe other hand there are some cops which you can't ever /area. Cops have all the resources to be able to handle any situation. If it however fails, it's not to be blamed for "lolol he was using grenades" yet the ones leading the police force should take responsibility. I also don't ever recall using an RPG against you guys or anyone for that matter with any of the situations that we were in (because to be honest, while you may seem like this is some IC war between you guys, we aren't even taking it that serious the whole time, you guys are making it seem what it's not).

Quote
therefor in the face of 10 heavily armed Gvardias 3-4 freecops are left with Deagle and Baton
That's not Gvardia or any other criminal groups' problem, yet those indiviudals and their superiors. What are you asking for? For freecops to be automatically equipped with miniguns?

Quote
And even when FBI and SAPD are outnumbering criminals, there are still problems, because few days ago, there was a ratio of 14 cops, with Snipers and M4s and whatnot, against 7-8 criminals at Fort Carson weed field. After a 30min prep, we circled them and they have retreated into the cover of a shack. We could've killed them off easily if it wasn't for some random bikers that came behind the Cluckin Bell and started sniping. Who were they? Why were they here? How did they get here? I thought that criminals aren't allowed to join situations already developing, only cops, and even then, admins are punishing those cops
Like this whole topic, you're missing a lot of small details and are just trying to see it from your own perspective. In that situation NOBODY joined mid-shootout; it was me and Jeremy and Cluckin' Bell, I retreated out of the radar because I was on low HP, so I rehealed and rearmoured, I circled around and caught some of you guys in a bad position while Jeremy had already died (at this point he had already killed 4-5 of you alone). Again, as I said, it's your internal problems here and not because someone joined midshootout or whatever you're trying to assume. Because while you guys were doing the planning for 30 minutes, we were doing the same, we predicted that you'd try to attack from three sides.

So, all in all, cops shouldn't be asking for anything, they have more than enough - even a fucking a taser which gets abused more than enough and admins don't give it enough attention, because by the time you're getting your report handled by admins in already forced in a situation, admins will just tell you to continue RPing (which I completely understand tbh).



Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Thomas_A on March 13, 2019, 12:07:17 pm
Couple of months ago people made numerous of topics about zero activity and the reasons behind it. Before that, people made numerous topics about the conflicts between cops and criminals. Now, couple of months if not years later, we're back discussing about the cops and criminals issies, time flies...  :lol:
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: JackDockz on March 13, 2019, 01:20:58 pm
I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

Like a PD is a group that's supposed to roleplay with a wide variety of people. You can't just expect police to roleplay with each other and have continuous trainings and stuff like this.

Topic kinda pointless, bring it up with SAPD Internal Affairs - prosecute the officer. There are a lot more roleplay opportunities. Investigate the Gvardias who might have bribed him, bring in a case, investigate.


That officer kinda died as mentioned. And ofc any sane criminal won't snitch on his Comrade.

I was a cop back in the day and I bet anything on the fact that 90% weed field encounters just ended with a shootout from either side.

Also its not like every criminal dms the fuck out of the cops. Like I have seen many criminals from all relevant families roleplaying nicely as well.




All we need is Stricter roleplay rules. Not at the level of a heavy rp server but at a considerable level that actually helps in maintaining roleplay standards.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Antonio. on March 13, 2019, 01:31:46 pm
I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

As mentioned earlier by Mircea, the disagreements are there due to the fact it was dead cops detaining and copbanning the aforementioned officer.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: JackDockz on March 13, 2019, 01:54:01 pm
I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

As mentioned earlier by Mircea, the disagreements are there due to the fact it was dead cops detaining and copbanning the aforementioned officer.

Firstly, I apologize for writing in retarded language.

Second, Argonath now lacks the playerbase to maintain the no return rule. You simply don't have enough people to replace dead ones.
If each person in Command Staff "dies" let's say 2 hours ago and somebody is still wanted then freecops can't go breaching regulations and orders as they like.

Both VC:MP and IV:MP had a playerbase higher than Samp for almost an year but returning after death after a certain time limit is allowed to Police officers since technically police departments have a large workforce and more backup could be called.

I would not really justify the ban as wrong. But it would've been better if a Non-Dead officer cop banned him. But the cop ban was inevitable anyhow.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: jovanca on March 13, 2019, 02:01:34 pm
People keep saying we need stricter rules, while we really already have rules that are strict enough. They're just not being enforced properly
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Antonio. on March 13, 2019, 02:04:52 pm
I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

As mentioned earlier by Mircea, the disagreements are there due to the fact it was dead cops detaining and copbanning the aforementioned officer.

Second, Argonath now lacks the playerbase to maintain the no return rule. You simply don't have enough people to replace dead ones.
If each person in Command Staff "dies" let's say 2 hours ago and somebody is still wanted then freecops can't go breaching regulations and orders as they like.

Both VC:MP and IV:MP had a playerbase higher than Samp for almost an year but returning after death after a certain time limit is allowed to Police officers since technically police departments have a large workforce and more backup could be called.

I would not really justify the ban as wrong. But it would've been better if a Non-Dead officer cop banned him. But the cop ban was inevitable anyhow.
When have you last been in-game, lol? I always notice the majority of the server being cops, therefore the return rule shouldn't be placed back, because all it does is create 100 shootouts instead of one where one side dies. And everyone is asking for changes regarding roleplay standards, so that would also not make sense.

You're speaking out in terms of SAPD regulations being handled OOCly, this was a case of IC corruption by a freecop, which isn't the same.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Marcel on March 13, 2019, 02:38:11 pm
Having been away from the server for a long time, one is able to put things into perspective a bit better.

While working on my return, it seems as if the one true eternal issue is topics like these. More specifically, it is the point these topics tend to focus on. While the aim of the game should be to play and create an enjoyable atmosphere for all in this ancient game, the aim of such topics is finger pointing towards other players and groups.

My suggestion would be to give each other the benefit of the doubt. If you really must discuss an issue you might have, choose a different tone in your initial post. A more open tone attracts a better discussion and possibly a worthwhile result in the end.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Bas on March 13, 2019, 05:04:12 pm
I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

As mentioned earlier by Mircea, the disagreements are there due to the fact it was dead cops detaining and copbanning the aforementioned officer.

Second, Argonath now lacks the playerbase to maintain the no return rule. You simply don't have enough people to replace dead ones.
If each person in Command Staff "dies" let's say 2 hours ago and somebody is still wanted then freecops can't go breaching regulations and orders as they like.

Both VC:MP and IV:MP had a playerbase higher than Samp for almost an year but returning after death after a certain time limit is allowed to Police officers since technically police departments have a large workforce and more backup could be called.

I would not really justify the ban as wrong. But it would've been better if a Non-Dead officer cop banned him. But the cop ban was inevitable anyhow.
When have you last been in-game, lol? I always notice the majority of the server being cops, therefore the return rule shouldn't be placed back, because all it does is create 100 shootouts instead of one where one side dies. And everyone is asking for changes regarding roleplay standards, so that would also not make sense.

You're speaking out in terms of SAPD regulations being handled OOCly, this was a case of IC corruption by a freecop, which isn't the same.

To be honest a few months back there were no cops at all, now we've finaly been able to resurrect it and what do we get? Nothing but cries about unfairness, unrp conduct and in general unfair treatment of the community. We've all got time to post walls of text on topics like these that even the star wars introduction would fall short to. But actually helping SAPD improve by reporting issues directly to command is too much effort. I'm right about done trying to cater to the community in terms of fairness if no one is willing to reach out to us. Either contribute to a solution or keep quiet.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Jeremy. on March 13, 2019, 06:57:23 pm
I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

As mentioned earlier by Mircea, the disagreements are there due to the fact it was dead cops detaining and copbanning the aforementioned officer.

Second, Argonath now lacks the playerbase to maintain the no return rule. You simply don't have enough people to replace dead ones.
If each person in Command Staff "dies" let's say 2 hours ago and somebody is still wanted then freecops can't go breaching regulations and orders as they like.

Both VC:MP and IV:MP had a playerbase higher than Samp for almost an year but returning after death after a certain time limit is allowed to Police officers since technically police departments have a large workforce and more backup could be called.

I would not really justify the ban as wrong. But it would've been better if a Non-Dead officer cop banned him. But the cop ban was inevitable anyhow.
When have you last been in-game, lol? I always notice the majority of the server being cops, therefore the return rule shouldn't be placed back, because all it does is create 100 shootouts instead of one where one side dies. And everyone is asking for changes regarding roleplay standards, so that would also not make sense.

You're speaking out in terms of SAPD regulations being handled OOCly, this was a case of IC corruption by a freecop, which isn't the same.

To be honest a few months back there were no cops at all, now we've finaly been able to resurrect it and what do we get? Nothing but cries about unfairness, unrp conduct and in general unfair treatment of the community. We've all got time to post walls of text on topics like these that even the star wars introduction would fall short to. But actually helping SAPD improve by reporting issues directly to command is too much effort. I'm right about done trying to cater to the community in terms of fairness if no one is willing to reach out to us. Either contribute to a solution or keep quiet.

I would suggest you to find another excuse, apparently this one is pretty old and it's annoying also. The first person from SAPD which is guilty for all those discusess regarding poor roleplay and deathmatch is none other than, the leader of it. You know pretty well who are the respective individuals causing this kind of chaos and the fact that you pretend not to have seen anything and leave it that way is the main reason of people not reporting it "in terms of fairness". Instead of sitting on your ass and doing literally nothing, take the lead and take measures to lower the amount of cancer your "trusted" people are expanding, not just as a police officer, yet in the whole community.

I have seen you multiple times just logging in to drive-by people with M4 so I guess we can't expect anything else from you. If you want improvement, start by yourself.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: JackDockz on March 13, 2019, 07:10:35 pm
Guys the server just got back up. We shouldn't kill it again so soon atleast.

Instead organise a good civilised meeting with different groups and the HQ and everyone can state their problems and opinions. If they HQ doesn't listen then riot
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Jeremy. on March 13, 2019, 07:11:46 pm
Guys the server just got back up. We shouldn't kill it again so soon atleast.

Instead organise a good civilised meeting with different groups and the HQ and everyone can state their problems and opinions. If they HQ doesn't listen then riot

+1
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Stivi on March 13, 2019, 07:25:17 pm
Aight Bas I can PM you names. You do the same and see how we do? Maybe arguing in-game and on the forums is pointless without fixing ourselves first. I still get shit by your cops for a tempban for "refusing to RP" (that got revoked and I also got unsuspected) and they shit on the admins involved and refuse to look at themselves and see how they were "treating me unfairly" or "conducting themselves in a poor rp manner".
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Aca on March 13, 2019, 11:23:29 pm
https://youtu.be/f7ZBJ0lRMhs

Where is the end of video?  :lol:
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Chase on March 13, 2019, 11:37:41 pm
I would like to avoid locking this topic, so please if anyone plans to derail this topic to at least 9000 percent, please don't. If you need help, you can google how to have a civil discussion. Here's a decent one: https://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-have-a-civil-discussion-about-divisive-issues/

Just saying that before it happens, because it probably will.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Bas on March 14, 2019, 02:52:13 am
I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

As mentioned earlier by Mircea, the disagreements are there due to the fact it was dead cops detaining and copbanning the aforementioned officer.

Second, Argonath now lacks the playerbase to maintain the no return rule. You simply don't have enough people to replace dead ones.
If each person in Command Staff "dies" let's say 2 hours ago and somebody is still wanted then freecops can't go breaching regulations and orders as they like.

Both VC:MP and IV:MP had a playerbase higher than Samp for almost an year but returning after death after a certain time limit is allowed to Police officers since technically police departments have a large workforce and more backup could be called.

I would not really justify the ban as wrong. But it would've been better if a Non-Dead officer cop banned him. But the cop ban was inevitable anyhow.
When have you last been in-game, lol? I always notice the majority of the server being cops, therefore the return rule shouldn't be placed back, because all it does is create 100 shootouts instead of one where one side dies. And everyone is asking for changes regarding roleplay standards, so that would also not make sense.

You're speaking out in terms of SAPD regulations being handled OOCly, this was a case of IC corruption by a freecop, which isn't the same.

To be honest a few months back there were no cops at all, now we've finaly been able to resurrect it and what do we get? Nothing but cries about unfairness, unrp conduct and in general unfair treatment of the community. We've all got time to post walls of text on topics like these that even the star wars introduction would fall short to. But actually helping SAPD improve by reporting issues directly to command is too much effort. I'm right about done trying to cater to the community in terms of fairness if no one is willing to reach out to us. Either contribute to a solution or keep quiet.

I would suggest you to find another excuse, apparently this one is pretty old and it's annoying also. The first person from SAPD which is guilty for all those discusess regarding poor roleplay and deathmatch is none other than, the leader of it. You know pretty well who are the respective individuals causing this kind of chaos and the fact that you pretend not to have seen anything and leave it that way is the main reason of people not reporting it "in terms of fairness". Instead of sitting on your ass and doing literally nothing, take the lead and take measures to lower the amount of cancer your "trusted" people are expanding, not just as a police officer, yet in the whole community.

I have seen you multiple times just logging in to drive-by people with M4 so I guess we can't expect anything else from you. If you want improvement, start by yourself.

I don't think you can judge how much effort is getting put on a daily base into the SAPD, and I don't blame you since literaly everything is off limits for you expect for operation greyhound which is public and started today. I appreciate Stiven's feedback since it is constructive and he shows willingness to work this out. You on the other hand seem to enjoy to blame everyone but yourself and that's all fine. But don't expect me to put any effort into whatever the point is you want to make. I'll leave this as my last reply as what stiven said, Talking here is pointless let's just take a good look at ourselfs and see what can improve. :) Everyone who wants to reach out to me can do so on the arpd forums or discord. And if none of this was sufficient and you still think I don't do anything with your particular feedback.. then you're right because after years of your toxic behavior towards me I no longer really value your opinion.

Let's all just go ingame and enjoy ourselfs instead of continuously re ignite our hatred through the forum

See you all ingame everyone :)
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Jeremy. on March 14, 2019, 08:08:11 am
I don't think you can judge how much effort is getting put on a daily base into the SAPD, and I don't blame you since literaly everything is off limits for you expect for operation greyhound which is public and started today. I appreciate Stiven's feedback since it is constructive and he shows willingness to work this out. You on the other hand seem to enjoy to blame everyone but yourself and that's all fine. But don't expect me to put any effort into whatever the point is you want to make. I'll leave this as my last reply as what stiven said, Talking here is pointless let's just take a good look at ourselfs and see what can improve. :) Everyone who wants to reach out to me can do so on the arpd forums or discord. And if none of this was sufficient and you still think I don't do anything with your particular feedback.. then you're right because after years of your toxic behavior towards me I no longer really value your opinion.

Let's all just go ingame and enjoy ourselfs instead of continuously re ignite our hatred through the forum

See you all ingame everyone :)

Well, forgive me if I can't say sophisticated words trying to explain you why you shouldn't act innocent and ask for people to 'report if you have a complaint'. You, as a leader, you have to be completely neutral and step in whenever you see your police officers having such a bad initiative of brainwashing everyone from the server. If you can't educate them properly, kick them out. I would rather have 5 police officers in-game rather than 10 out of 15 which, every time they die in a random shootout they have to blame a group and eventually even incite others to act like them. (Reffering to: http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125951.msg1963086#msg1963086) Sure, let's suppose you're not always in-game and you can't see their poor roleplay or deathmatch attempts, or there is no one sumbitting any kind of complaint on your ARPD forums, BUT, you're on that discord, the pictures I posted in the other topic from SAPD discord, it is from the Volunteer chat which is PUBLIC to everyone. You saw it and yet you didn't even care to tell them to shut the fuck up and don't brag about it in a public channel. As I said in my previous post, you didn't do literally anything. Why people should even care to report something which you saw, you're aware of yet you don't do anything regarding it. I'm sorry if I'm hurting your feelings but my points are on topic and are valid points of the concern of most of the players right now. You're being an accomplice to this issue and, I, as a previous SA:MP Administrator and leader of plenty groups which achieved recognized/official status by my assist, I would suggest you to step down from your position. I don't even want to guess what's in the other channels from your discord. In my almost 10 years of gameplay here, I've never saw such a weak SAPD crew. Again, I'm not trying to provoke you in any way, yet trying to have a civilized discussion.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: TedHamilton on March 17, 2019, 10:11:09 pm
I don't think you can judge how much effort is getting put on a daily base into the SAPD, and I don't blame you since literaly everything is off limits for you expect for operation greyhound which is public and started today. I appreciate Stiven's feedback since it is constructive and he shows willingness to work this out. You on the other hand seem to enjoy to blame everyone but yourself and that's all fine. But don't expect me to put any effort into whatever the point is you want to make. I'll leave this as my last reply as what stiven said, Talking here is pointless let's just take a good look at ourselfs and see what can improve. :) Everyone who wants to reach out to me can do so on the arpd forums or discord. And if none of this was sufficient and you still think I don't do anything with your particular feedback.. then you're right because after years of your toxic behavior towards me I no longer really value your opinion.

Let's all just go ingame and enjoy ourselfs instead of continuously re ignite our hatred through the forum

See you all ingame everyone :)

Well, forgive me if I can't say sophisticated words trying to explain you why you shouldn't act innocent and ask for people to 'report if you have a complaint'. You, as a leader, you have to be completely neutral and step in whenever you see your police officers having such a bad initiative of brainwashing everyone from the server. If you can't educate them properly, kick them out. I would rather have 5 police officers in-game rather than 10 out of 15 which, every time they die in a random shootout they have to blame a group and eventually even incite others to act like them. (Reffering to: http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125951.msg1963086#msg1963086) Sure, let's suppose you're not always in-game and you can't see their poor roleplay or deathmatch attempts, or there is no one sumbitting any kind of complaint on your ARPD forums, BUT, you're on that discord, the pictures I posted in the other topic from SAPD discord, it is from the Volunteer chat which is PUBLIC to everyone. You saw it and yet you didn't even care to tell them to shut the fuck up and don't brag about it in a public channel. As I said in my previous post, you didn't do literally anything. Why people should even care to report something which you saw, you're aware of yet you don't do anything regarding it. I'm sorry if I'm hurting your feelings but my points are on topic and are valid points of the concern of most of the players right now. You're being an accomplice to this issue and, I, as a previous SA:MP Administrator and leader of plenty groups which achieved recognized/official status by my assist, I would suggest you to step down from your position. I don't even want to guess what's in the other channels from your discord. In my almost 10 years of gameplay here, I've never saw such a weak SAPD crew. Again, I'm not trying to provoke you in any way, yet trying to have a civilized discussion.

You can't call for a civilized discussion when your own discourse is provocative and accusing. Review the tone of your passage.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: AryaN on March 21, 2019, 06:40:02 am
Cop vs criminal has always been the problem and will always be. You cannot eliminate this at all but can make a constructive effort to minimize it. Instead of asking your rivals to PM you and sort this out, take the initiative yourself. Set the time, organize an OOC meeting consisting leaders of every group. This was done in past too and it worked out better than expected. It is worth a try.

As stivi said,  3 hour rule was especially set up for gang wars and is only valid for gang wars means no matter what your RP reason is,  if your rival group has killed you then you are not allowed approach them until 3 hours passed. This rule was clarified to everyone. If you remember, a dialogue message (containing this rule) used to pop up upon login when this rule was imposed and this stayed for several months. Although during my period of administration, there were many players who had no idea where this rule applies and this is because somewhere administration failed to enforce this rule to the right place.

About zlatan copban, it's not fair but is sensible why the copban was issued. You cannot make your rp as perfect as in real life because this is Gta world with its limited resources and restrictions.
Consider a freecop killed the sapd chief and got copbanned for 7 days(equivalent to perm ban from sapd in real life). Considering the fairness, his punishment should remain in existence until the roleplay is in force but you cannot restrict sapd chief to remain dead for 7 days and thus chief must resume his duty even if its immediately after his death but the freecop has to remain banned 7 days for killing chief(to serve his punishment as perm ban) 

We have to make compromises accordingly. I'm not enforcing any way out from realistic rp. These are just few gray areas to which we have to adjust with.

I'm not here criticizing any group. Feel free to counter my opinions and lets try looking at it with a common perspective.
Title: Re: The Eternal Issue
Post by: Stivi on March 21, 2019, 02:14:38 pm
As stivi said,  3 hour rule was especially set up for gang wars and is only valid for gang wars means no matter what your RP reason is,  if your rival group has killed you then you are not allowed approach them until 3 hours passed. This rule was clarified to everyone.
False. I didn't say this. Clearly still lacks clarification. If a rival group killed you, you CAN'T return, not now, not 3 hours later, not ever. Move the fuck on.



You want to remove cops vs criminals? Add civilians to the mix: judges, lawyers, mayors, and make HQ able to intervene in legal matters. Let's take a very simple example (other than the one that lead to /mir removal ):

FBI has investigated me for two months, they now want to arrest me and prosecute me. They might come arrest me based on at which I will respond with "do you have a warrant?" and call my lawyer, who should have the power to stop the illegal arrest. Let's suppose they don't, they go back. But now I know they are after me, so I, the rule-abiding criminal arm up to the teeth, get level 10 notoriety and start talking shit on public chat when a cop throws a .cb provocation. What happens is, we don't have a judge to approve a warrant, so the FBI that was after me does it themselves. FBI director (currently Mircea, a very active player in the cop-scene) can judge and execute a warrant all by himself. Which would be okay if the FBI director had someone to tell him "U done fucked up, ure fired". They come to me and attempt to arrest me again, to which I respond with three molotovs and two sniper cases, resulting in me dying before I throw my second molotov because I suck at shooting. Voila, that RP ended. Now I could RP with them, if I didn't know that it was the cop after me who approved the warrant to go after me.

You see the issues we have and how we come up with rules from 2008 to get out of them and then Mircea makes a topic that says it's bullshit, and we agree and point out the problems, but then it gets locked because I mentioned a name that I probably also reported to HQ and they supposedly investigated and as the player isn't punished, that just makes me look dumb? Better lock it.

About Zlatan's copban, some of the cops were not dead and allowed to go after Zlatan. The problem is, it was Mircea who lead that action, who was dead. And none of us was moaning about it, it's just that I thought cops had a hard time chewing the fact they died in a GTA game and decided to go after an "accomplice". Btw, I couldn't care less about Zlatan OOC or IC, I almost never interacted with him, but still we're "the moaning legion" because we don't agree xd And I think it's pointless discussing his copban now, as it probably expired, let's focus on the rules that led to it being discussed.
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