The Eternal Issue

[jovanca]

nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it

I'm really cringing and feel so sorry you haven't seen 0.1 percent of what SAPD and FBI can roleplay.

i tried, but all you ever do is deathmatch when im around.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125915.0
Funny
Now let's keep the topic on topic

You're the one going off the topic. And i do not appreciate the way you're running your mouth about me on discord.

To get back to the topic, you are incapable of playing and leading your group properly with the same system that worked for years. The problem is obviously in you. I suggest you just resign yourself before you destroy the reputation and the group itself even more.

[Stivi]

If help is called through RP then people don't have to come interact with you and tell you that you are going to be killed because they are "hired" help. They have RPed with others. You are military IRL, you know people shoot at you without telling you that you are going to get shot right? That's how hitmen work as well. And even street fights, if I see my boys get jumped best believe I'm not going to be talking to those guys.

Let's talk. Tell me the "3 hour rule". Because I haven't been active since last summer, but I have been around long enough to know about that rule as well, unlike a lot of people here. The rule was added because of the constant shootouts Gvardia and Soprano were having. At that point even Corleone were fighting either group, so shit got complicated and it got complicated quickly. At any given day we couldn't keep track of who was dead and alive because honestly it didn't even matter, we were at war (but we were not trying to get punished either.) So what happened was one group would attack another group when numbers were greater. Now as soon as one side killed the other, the losing side would give word that they got killed and the rest should avenge them. So a couple hours later people would log in and walk up to the other group and kill them because "you killed my brothers".

Clearly the HQ had enough, report cases weren't even being handled and this rule was introduced.

The rule says the LOSING side has 3 hours to RETALIATE. (Retaliation, for those who don't have a single fucking clue what it means, is attacking as revenge or response to a previous attack)
Nowhere is it written that this means after 3 hours the RP has ended and you can RETURN. You can NOT return after death, period. Come at me admins, it's your rules you don't even know how to enforce. So yes I will speak out and call bullshit on rules that don't exist, but you call it moaning legion. Sure bud, I'm not offended, I'm just angry because it's not us making these topics. (Additionally, is it moaning if I still say it's unfair after winning?)

You're eager to win and that isn't any good, let's have a proper discussion on Discord or even here if the topic isn't locked before I get back home, where you and I both reply to ALL points, and then see who is right or wrong.



About Zlatan, I honestly don't even talk to the guy,it was just funny how he got fucked by the same cops that Antonio killed, and it looked like you guys were butthurt about it, hence the arguments in /p


Unsuspecting someone means they don't get notoriety and can be further sued in court if the police wishes to pursue it, and that isn't how the rules work.

[Mircea_Niko]

nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it

I'm really cringing and feel so sorry you haven't seen 0.1 percent of what SAPD and FBI can roleplay.

i tried, but all you ever do is deathmatch when im around.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125915.0
Funny
Now let's keep the topic on topic

You're the one going off the topic. And i do not appreciate the way you're running your mouth about me on discord.

To get back to the topic, you are incapable of playing and leading your group properly with the same system that worked for years. The problem is obviously in you. I suggest you just resign yourself before you destroy the reputation and the group itself even more.

...and that comes from a criminal that has zero idea how FBI works? That's like those SJW commenting on Obama YouTube videos about how to be a president, or those people on 9gag that have to retaliate at everything. I'm on the server, been leading FBI and keep developing it for the last 3 years that I've been in the Upper Command, and will continue to do so, so I mind my own job. Meanwhile, you should mind yours, of a mobster, a criminal, or a gangster, whatever. You are currently banned, I am not, that clearly speaks for itself about who's the shame of the group. Let's not turn this provocative.

If help is called through RP then people don't have to come interact with you and tell you that you are going to be killed because they are "hired" help. They have RPed with others. You are military IRL, you know people shoot at you without telling you that you are going to get shot right? That's how hitmen work as well. And even street fights, if I see my boys get jumped best believe I'm not going to be talking to those guys.

Let's talk. Tell me the "3 hour rule". Because I haven't been active since last summer, but I have been around long enough to know about that rule as well, unlike a lot of people here. The rule was added because of the constant shootouts Gvardia and Soprano were having. At that point even Corleone were fighting either group, so shit got complicated and it got complicated quickly. At any given day we couldn't keep track of who was dead and alive because honestly it didn't even matter, we were at war (but we were not trying to get punished either.) So what happened was one group would attack another group when numbers were greater. Now as soon as one side killed the other, the losing side would give word that they got killed and the rest should avenge them. So a couple hours later people would log in and walk up to the other group and kill them because "you killed my brothers".

Clearly the HQ had enough, report cases weren't even being handled and this rule was introduced.

The rule says the LOSING side has 3 hours to RETALIATE. (Retaliation, for those who don't have a single fucking clue what it means, is attacking as revenge or response to a previous attack)
Nowhere is it written that this means after 3 hours the RP has ended and you can RETURN. You can NOT return after death, period. Come at me admins, it's your rules you don't even know how to enforce. So yes I will speak out and call bullshit on rules that don't exist, but you call it moaning legion. Sure bud, I'm not offended, I'm just angry because it's not us making these topics. (Additionally, is it moaning if I still say it's unfair after winning?)

You're eager to win and that isn't any good, let's have a proper discussion on Discord or even here if the topic isn't locked before I get back home, where you and I both reply to ALL points, and then see who is right or wrong.



About Zlatan, I honestly don't even talk to the guy,it was just funny how he got fucked by the same cops that Antonio killed, and it looked like you guys were butthurt about it, hence the arguments in /p


Unsuspecting someone means they don't get notoriety and can be further sued in court if the police wishes to pursue it, and that isn't how the rules work.

I agree with what you said in the first paragraph, but it's still a game, with some grey areas, that can't be acted upon, and we can't compare always IRL with IG sadly, no matter how any of us would like to. I don't mind having a hitman on me, but make it properly, not so obvious, or don't provoke me afterwards HAHAHAHAH U GOT KILLED how it happens lately. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking in general, can't say names, I don't track such things, but I remember them.

Also, I don't mind losing! At all! I always tell my agents after dying not to get mad, not to get upset, not to drop morale, because they roleplayed and put in practice what they were supposed to, and that's all I care for. I don't mind dying, I don't give a damn about it, but I want to lose fairly, and I want to have a fair fight, without accessing grey areas and such or resorting to administration.

I know this isn't how rules work, but rules don't work at all. I honestly prefer unsuspecting someone with a huge RHL and having the chance to interact with or engage them again and assume myself a kick or a tempban instead of calling agents for a suspect, from their homework, from their studying, from outside, etc to respond (at their own will, not me forcing them to), and then finding out Antonio has 120min RHL, and standing 2-3 hours at LSFO waiting for him and Gvardia to escape so we can roleplay again. Because most crimes are related to Gvardia and Co nowadays, so the server's basically Cops vs Gvardia&Co, and it leads us to a dead end if half of the cops already died by them.

[jovanca]

nvm i can't bother talking to people who don't realise what rp is. i will let HQ handle it

I'm really cringing and feel so sorry you haven't seen 0.1 percent of what SAPD and FBI can roleplay.

i tried, but all you ever do is deathmatch when im around.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125915.0
Funny
Now let's keep the topic on topic

You're the one going off the topic. And i do not appreciate the way you're running your mouth about me on discord.

To get back to the topic, you are incapable of playing and leading your group properly with the same system that worked for years. The problem is obviously in you. I suggest you just resign yourself before you destroy the reputation and the group itself even more.

...and that comes from a criminal that has zero idea how FBI works? That's like those SJW commenting on Obama YouTube videos about how to be a president, or those people on 9gag that have to retaliate at everything. I'm on the server, been leading FBI and keep developing it for the last 3 years that I've been in the Upper Command, and will continue to do so, so I mind my own job. Meanwhile, you should mind yours, of a mobster, a criminal, or a gangster, whatever. You are currently banned, I am not, that clearly speaks for itself about who's the shame of the group. Let's not turn this provocative.

If help is called through RP then people don't have to come interact with you and tell you that you are going to be killed because they are "hired" help. They have RPed with others. You are military IRL, you know people shoot at you without telling you that you are going to get shot right? That's how hitmen work as well. And even street fights, if I see my boys get jumped best believe I'm not going to be talking to those guys.

Let's talk. Tell me the "3 hour rule". Because I haven't been active since last summer, but I have been around long enough to know about that rule as well, unlike a lot of people here. The rule was added because of the constant shootouts Gvardia and Soprano were having. At that point even Corleone were fighting either group, so shit got complicated and it got complicated quickly. At any given day we couldn't keep track of who was dead and alive because honestly it didn't even matter, we were at war (but we were not trying to get punished either.) So what happened was one group would attack another group when numbers were greater. Now as soon as one side killed the other, the losing side would give word that they got killed and the rest should avenge them. So a couple hours later people would log in and walk up to the other group and kill them because "you killed my brothers".

Clearly the HQ had enough, report cases weren't even being handled and this rule was introduced.

The rule says the LOSING side has 3 hours to RETALIATE. (Retaliation, for those who don't have a single fucking clue what it means, is attacking as revenge or response to a previous attack)
Nowhere is it written that this means after 3 hours the RP has ended and you can RETURN. You can NOT return after death, period. Come at me admins, it's your rules you don't even know how to enforce. So yes I will speak out and call bullshit on rules that don't exist, but you call it moaning legion. Sure bud, I'm not offended, I'm just angry because it's not us making these topics. (Additionally, is it moaning if I still say it's unfair after winning?)

You're eager to win and that isn't any good, let's have a proper discussion on Discord or even here if the topic isn't locked before I get back home, where you and I both reply to ALL points, and then see who is right or wrong.



About Zlatan, I honestly don't even talk to the guy,it was just funny how he got fucked by the same cops that Antonio killed, and it looked like you guys were butthurt about it, hence the arguments in /p


Unsuspecting someone means they don't get notoriety and can be further sued in court if the police wishes to pursue it, and that isn't how the rules work.

I agree with what you said in the first paragraph, but it's still a game, with some grey areas, that can't be acted upon, and we can't compare always IRL with IG sadly, no matter how any of us would like to. I don't mind having a hitman on me, but make it properly, not so obvious, or don't provoke me afterwards HAHAHAHAH U GOT KILLED how it happens lately. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking in general, can't say names, I don't track such things, but I remember them.

Also, I don't mind losing! At all! I always tell my agents after dying not to get mad, not to get upset, not to drop morale, because they roleplayed and put in practice what they were supposed to, and that's all I care for. I don't mind dying, I don't give a damn about it, but I want to lose fairly, and I want to have a fair fight, without accessing grey areas and such or resorting to administration.

I know this isn't how rules work, but rules don't work at all. I honestly prefer unsuspecting someone with a huge RHL and having the chance to interact with or engage them again and assume myself a kick or a tempban instead of calling agents for a suspect, from their homework, from their studying, from outside, etc to respond (at their own will, not me forcing them to), and then finding out Antonio has 120min RHL, and standing 2-3 hours at LSFO waiting for him and Gvardia to escape so we can roleplay again. Because most crimes are related to Gvardia and Co nowadays, so the server's basically Cops vs Gvardia&Co, and it leads us to a dead end if half of the cops already died by them.

Now after bringing up the fact that im banned and saying i should have my mouth ripped off you're talking about no provoking?  You already crossed that line. As for my ban, i was frustrated after getting deathmatched countless times over the several few days, and i knifed one person in anger. It's nothing compared to what you and your people did just before my ban and what you usually do on daily basis

[Stivi]

If help is called through RP then people don't have to come interact with you and tell you that you are going to be killed because they are "hired" help. They have RPed with others. You are military IRL, you know people shoot at you without telling you that you are going to get shot right? That's how hitmen work as well. And even street fights, if I see my boys get jumped best believe I'm not going to be talking to those guys.

Let's talk. Tell me the "3 hour rule". Because I haven't been active since last summer, but I have been around long enough to know about that rule as well, unlike a lot of people here. The rule was added because of the constant shootouts Gvardia and Soprano were having. At that point even Corleone were fighting either group, so shit got complicated and it got complicated quickly. At any given day we couldn't keep track of who was dead and alive because honestly it didn't even matter, we were at war (but we were not trying to get punished either.) So what happened was one group would attack another group when numbers were greater. Now as soon as one side killed the other, the losing side would give word that they got killed and the rest should avenge them. So a couple hours later people would log in and walk up to the other group and kill them because "you killed my brothers".

Clearly the HQ had enough, report cases weren't even being handled and this rule was introduced.

The rule says the LOSING side has 3 hours to RETALIATE. (Retaliation, for those who don't have a single fucking clue what it means, is attacking as revenge or response to a previous attack)
Nowhere is it written that this means after 3 hours the RP has ended and you can RETURN. You can NOT return after death, period. Come at me admins, it's your rules you don't even know how to enforce. So yes I will speak out and call bullshit on rules that don't exist, but you call it moaning legion. Sure bud, I'm not offended, I'm just angry because it's not us making these topics. (Additionally, is it moaning if I still say it's unfair after winning?)

You're eager to win and that isn't any good, let's have a proper discussion on Discord or even here if the topic isn't locked before I get back home, where you and I both reply to ALL points, and then see who is right or wrong.



About Zlatan, I honestly don't even talk to the guy,it was just funny how he got fucked by the same cops that Antonio killed, and it looked like you guys were butthurt about it, hence the arguments in /p


Unsuspecting someone means they don't get notoriety and can be further sued in court if the police wishes to pursue it, and that isn't how the rules work.

I agree with what you said in the first paragraph, but it's still a game, with some grey areas, that can't be acted upon, and we can't compare always IRL with IG sadly, no matter how any of us would like to. I don't mind having a hitman on me, but make it properly, not so obvious, or don't provoke me afterwards HAHAHAHAH U GOT KILLED how it happens lately. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking in general, can't say names, I don't track such things, but I remember them.

Also, I don't mind losing! At all! I always tell my agents after dying not to get mad, not to get upset, not to drop morale, because they roleplayed and put in practice what they were supposed to, and that's all I care for. I don't mind dying, I don't give a damn about it, but I want to lose fairly, and I want to have a fair fight, without accessing grey areas and such or resorting to administration.

I know this isn't how rules work, but rules don't work at all. I honestly prefer unsuspecting someone with a huge RHL and having the chance to interact with or engage them again and assume myself a kick or a tempban instead of calling agents for a suspect, from their homework, from their studying, from outside, etc to respond (at their own will, not me forcing them to), and then finding out Antonio has 120min RHL, and standing 2-3 hours at LSFO waiting for him and Gvardia to escape so we can roleplay again. Because most crimes are related to Gvardia and Co nowadays, so the server's basically Cops vs Gvardia&Co, and it leads us to a dead end if half of the cops already died by them.

So you're not going to mention the 3 hour rules things? Does that mean you agree with what I said and that I am right? I also don't give a flying fuck about losing, not even notoriety, it was just an excuse so I could get a point across. The problem is I keep making these "accusations" or whatever even when WINNING. That's the fucking problem, and that's what you all fail to realize.

I said this in another topic, and you know I will be compliant in RP, so tell me who isn't and I'll handle them. I have no problem with you whatsoever. When I speak about cops I refer mostly to the SAPD, and I know Bas can RP and I also know a lot of those members of the SAPD can RP, the problem is they are too trigger-happy and would rather not.

I'll give you something I wrote on Bogomil's topic, but I "was pointing fingers" so he got it locked. That's the problem, we're not pointing fingers so the same people that cause this just figure out a smarter way to do what they do.

You all can moan about Gvardia and any criminal group but the fact is you have never caught us doing what we do other than shootouts. Bare with me, you'll see the point soon. We all know criminals grow weed fields, we all know criminals cook meth and order heroin. What you don't know is where the drugs go to. Who gets it all and throws it at the drug market? What's the price on drugs? How the fuck do criminals have 7 properties? Who is investigating that? No one. Why? The scripts, the rules and the law.

The automatic /su. Many times I do 10 damage and get a kill, but the people that did 190 get nothing and are according to the law, the rules and the script free to walk. Makes no sense, I agree. But as a criminal operating in gray areas, that's the best scenario for me. And that's why I "moan/cry/bitch" when I get killed not commiting any crimes, so you all take notice and say "Wait, he's right, I shouldn't have shot him, but it is bullshit." and create a discussion about it. The play 2 win mentality is not something I like. And I'm not a saint, however everything I have abused, like /mir, I could, and I did it. Sure it's bad, but maybe that will fix the issue that is the court right now.

The rule "once you escape that RP is over" and /rhl. You killed 7 people? Dope, you're free to go if you run for 7 minutes. Oh you have a 80min rhl? We can maybe jail you for 15 seconds do you're no longer suspected, because we can't return and it makes no sense.

The law. If I am jailed, I am jailed and that's it. Courts are really not useful and inactive. But certainly if I am jailed for 200 seconds by /jail, in court I would have gotten like 30minutes. Which would be a proper punishment.

These are the things that give you freedom in Argonath but also we're at a point where these are the things blocking us from doing anything. I mean, as a criminal, I'm all fine with a jail, because I can only be punished once for a crime, so I'm good, but it isn't fair. The fact I abuse these means I'm "smart" or intelligent enough to know how to abuse these, but it does suck and something should be done about it. It is though something Gandalf would be against of and I don't know how much we can move forward with any "no blips no /area no rhl no auto sus" things people throw around, HQ has to intervene.



Zlatan's copban, "if it wasn't for". Exactly, but it was for that. So uncopban him or apologize or whatever, but don't defend your actions. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense, it's not supposed to, the shit is complicated.

[Kostas]

I read it all. I wont take part... you know this server would be kuch better without forums. So many ignorant people.

[neriionz]

We always return to the same conversation, everyone criticizes the rules, the criminal groups, the police and the lack of RP of the players but nobody or almost nobody that came here to post in these topics was interested to change in game. How many of you lately have only focused on RP? How long can you walk in your character without running or jumping around town without weapons? Change yourself first!

I read it all. I wont take part... you know this server would be kuch better without forums. So many ignorant people.

Nothing to add.

[jovanca]

Doesn't work like that.

[TheGreasyChopper]

Topic kinda pointless, bring it up with SAPD Internal Affairs - prosecute the officer. There are a lot more roleplay opportunities. Investigate the Gvardias who might have bribed him, bring in a case, investigate.

Not everything has to resolve with a /gu or a kill of one side or another. As much as everyone's trying, you guys should start doing less Conflict based RP and focus on long term character development. Keep things IC and don't go OOC over EVERY interaction you do.

[Antonio.]

These shits happen more often day by day, but still, cops are the ones abusing, cops are the ones overpowered, because not everyone can afford a performance rig to record at the same time, so those people take advantage of this.
Also what the fuck is going on with the shitspam of grenades and RPGs? What is this, freeroam? TDM? Well yes it's TDM, and yes, I wouldn't mind RPG and heavy weapons usage, if cops had something to counter them with.

Cops have unlimited weapons which they don't have to pay for and a very active force at the moment (9 times out of 10, cops outnumber criminals), hence the usuage of heavy weaponry from the criminals' side. And lets be honest here, any freecop, cop, director, whatever that is responding will be equipped with full armour, sniper and m4, while criminals don't always have the ability to equip themselves with such, be it financially, but in my opinion due to the notoriety sytem which is very flawed (you lose it faster than you can get it),and on othe other hand there are some cops which you can't ever /area. Cops have all the resources to be able to handle any situation. If it however fails, it's not to be blamed for "lolol he was using grenades" yet the ones leading the police force should take responsibility. I also don't ever recall using an RPG against you guys or anyone for that matter with any of the situations that we were in (because to be honest, while you may seem like this is some IC war between you guys, we aren't even taking it that serious the whole time, you guys are making it seem what it's not).

therefor in the face of 10 heavily armed Gvardias 3-4 freecops are left with Deagle and Baton

That's not Gvardia or any other criminal groups' problem, yet those indiviudals and their superiors. What are you asking for? For freecops to be automatically equipped with miniguns?

And even when FBI and SAPD are outnumbering criminals, there are still problems, because few days ago, there was a ratio of 14 cops, with Snipers and M4s and whatnot, against 7-8 criminals at Fort Carson weed field. After a 30min prep, we circled them and they have retreated into the cover of a shack. We could've killed them off easily if it wasn't for some random bikers that came behind the Cluckin Bell and started sniping. Who were they? Why were they here? How did they get here? I thought that criminals aren't allowed to join situations already developing, only cops, and even then, admins are punishing those cops

Like this whole topic, you're missing a lot of small details and are just trying to see it from your own perspective. In that situation NOBODY joined mid-shootout; it was me and Jeremy and Cluckin' Bell, I retreated out of the radar because I was on low HP, so I rehealed and rearmoured, I circled around and caught some of you guys in a bad position while Jeremy had already died (at this point he had already killed 4-5 of you alone). Again, as I said, it's your internal problems here and not because someone joined midshootout or whatever you're trying to assume. Because while you guys were doing the planning for 30 minutes, we were doing the same, we predicted that you'd try to attack from three sides.

So, all in all, cops shouldn't be asking for anything, they have more than enough - even a fucking a taser which gets abused more than enough and admins don't give it enough attention, because by the time you're getting your report handled by admins in already forced in a situation, admins will just tell you to continue RPing (which I completely understand tbh).

[Thomas_A]

Couple of months ago people made numerous of topics about zero activity and the reasons behind it. Before that, people made numerous topics about the conflicts between cops and criminals. Now, couple of months if not years later, we're back discussing about the cops and criminals issies, time flies... 

[JackDockz]

I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

Like a PD is a group that's supposed to roleplay with a wide variety of people. You can't just expect police to roleplay with each other and have continuous trainings and stuff like this.

Topic kinda pointless, bring it up with SAPD Internal Affairs - prosecute the officer. There are a lot more roleplay opportunities. Investigate the Gvardias who might have bribed him, bring in a case, investigate.

That officer kinda died as mentioned. And ofc any sane criminal won't snitch on his Comrade.

I was a cop back in the day and I bet anything on the fact that 90% weed field encounters just ended with a shootout from either side.

Also its not like every criminal dms the fuck out of the cops. Like I have seen many criminals from all relevant families roleplaying nicely as well.



All we need is Stricter roleplay rules. Not at the level of a heavy rp server but at a considerable level that actually helps in maintaining roleplay standards.

[Antonio.]

I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

As mentioned earlier by Mircea, the disagreements are there due to the fact it was dead cops detaining and copbanning the aforementioned officer.

[JackDockz]

I don't know how you think that copban is unfair. Like that nigga just ignored both sapd and fbi and proceeds to jail a nigga wanted for idk 9 hours for 15 fucking seconds.
Like if you murder 10 people IRL then you will get a 150 year sentence or life imprisonment or be hanged. Not 2 months of jail time and no investigation by cops.

As mentioned earlier by Mircea, the disagreements are there due to the fact it was dead cops detaining and copbanning the aforementioned officer.

Firstly, I apologize for writing in retarded language.

Second, Argonath now lacks the playerbase to maintain the no return rule. You simply don't have enough people to replace dead ones.
If each person in Command Staff "dies" let's say 2 hours ago and somebody is still wanted then freecops can't go breaching regulations and orders as they like.

Both VC:MP and IV:MP had a playerbase higher than Samp for almost an year but returning after death after a certain time limit is allowed to Police officers since technically police departments have a large workforce and more backup could be called.

I would not really justify the ban as wrong. But it would've been better if a Non-Dead officer cop banned him. But the cop ban was inevitable anyhow.

[jovanca]

People keep saying we need stricter rules, while we really already have rules that are strict enough. They're just not being enforced properly