Argonath RPG - A World of its own
Argonath RPG Community => Groups & Families => Clans, Groups & Families => Groups and Families Archive => Topic started by: Pandalink on December 15, 2009, 07:53:17 pm
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As some of you may have realised, the Validation system is rather clunky, irritating to use, and irritating to handle. The theory of the system is great, but it does not practically work. The reasons for this are as follows:
:: Admins do not check the topic as it was designed for.
:: The dual validation requirement is annoying and clunky.
:: The topic is a very manual thing and requires daily updating from me, which I do not have time to do everyday. Right now I have a massive backlog which I cannot be bothered to deal with.
:: The threat of losing a validation means nothing, so a group getting griefed will complain and try to fight back instead of just dropping the necessary validation.
:: People are too proud to drop a validation from a group that is both griefing them and also abusing the system to deathmatch unnecessarily.
:: Admins do not understand the system, and I do not blame them.
:: The system was a compromise bitterly met. Neither side is happy with it. It is not well liked by admins, as it causes large wars, and it is not liked by gangs as it is not easy enough to create a large war. (:lol:)
We need:
:: Massive Improvements to the Validation System
- It could work, but it would need a lot of work to do so.
:: A new system for working out Gangwars
- Suggestions in this topic please, anything at all.
:: No system for Gangwars at all
- Go back to the moaning, complaining, and general shit that we had before. Not a good option.
Go ahead with suggestions.
I have a concept in my mind, that is alliance based more than anything, but it will require some thought.
For now, the validation system is still in place. Until something else is drawn up, its the best we got.
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Actually it was expected, and I have recently got request to check on the validation and its use.
Validation has been used as excuse for a couple of members to kill a single member of another group, who then respnd the same way. That is not a gang war, it is gang DM.
A gang war is supposed to be the last step in a conflict between two gangs, a conflict that should be a reason more RP as 'we have validation so I kill you'. It should end the conflict, with the winning group getting the 'rights' on whatever the conflict was about.
While numbers in a gang war should not be limited to upper or lower limits, the idea of it being the final step in a conflict is the important one, and one that seems forgotten.
We are currently contemplating improvements for the future that may help in this, but it is too early to move to those.
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I dont think the Validation system is bad right now, it is a bit clunky yes i agree with that but major issue is the RP issue. You dont need a Validation to Kill/Kidnap/Rob/whatever aslong as you have a GOOD RP SITUATION. Not "Oh you looked at me wrong so i Killed you". Thats utter bs. The 'Turf' thing is a big issue IMO. As stated previously nobody 'OWNS' any Turf. I mean Group 'Z's turf is Bayside Group 'A' is Angel Pine. Group Z Validates Group A because group A is also Claiming Bayside as their Turf. Group A Didn't agree to Validation, Group Z Continuously Kills Group A members because they are on Group Z's Turf. Which Should not be allowed. I mean you don't need to Murder people to have a RP about Turf War's. Also Group Z Claims "We have a Validation against Group A" group Z is popular...Group A is not so everyone Sides with Z even though Z is wrong.
If People Could Communicate and Quit the lame Moan about peoples "rp" or whatever, in or out of a Mafia, Gang etc we wouldnt have a issue like this. Communication is The Key. If people can grow up and actually PLAN out something it'd be fun if your complaining about good RP. But walking up to someone on your turf carrying a M4...Not Likely...SO i still think Validation System should stick around, but if Groups Start to get Dm'd and have PROOF....They get what Koltsovi got when Koltsovi lost all their Validations. So i really think we need people to Moderate the Validations area, keep it in tact and try to Thin out the Mass Flame that comes with Validations because groups feel they "Pwn" other groups. Which shows how immature people truly are.
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Maybe a validation between two groups should have a very specified period, so at least everyone will be warned and alerted. On the other hand, it will cause less DM.
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Well, validation can be used for like.
If gangs agree on date/time, that they both claim a "turf" in same place, the loser, must leave the turf and must find another one.
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People just want to shoot at their enemies because they're enemies. I thought the validation idea was great at first but it got annoying to get attacked by lone members three times a day while I'm minding my own business.
If gangs agree on date/time, that they both claim a "turf" in same place, the loser, must leave the turf and must find another one.
That can be done via one mafia gaining influence in said area by buying businesses/houses there. When a mafia owns most of the stuff in a certain area then it's not really beneficial for a rival mafia to 'set up shop' there.
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I myself personaly dont have a problem with the validcation system but i can see why some people might. Like if 2 groups have a validation, All the old members of one group are use to fighting members of the other group but when a new person is joining one of the groups and is constantly getting killed they would probably not like it to much and leave. This is jsut what i think.
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As Daco said, the validation should be under a specific time and maybe be a small amount of planned attacks. Not random shooting against the other faction.
Like in each validation, you have three or five strikes. After these, the validation should be over, or if the leaders from each group talked about how the future would be.
Every random attack after that should be considered as deathmatching.
This can also be complicated, but if the co-operation is good, there will not be any difficulties.
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As Daco said, the validation should be under a specific time and maybe be a small amount of planned attacks. Not random shooting against the other faction.
Like in each validation, you have three or five strikes. After these, the validation should be over, or if the leaders from each group talked about how the future would be.
Every random attack after that should be considered deathmatching.
This can also be complicated, but if the co-operation is good, it won't be any difficulties.
Exactly. Communication is the key.
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Panda you made the Validation system if it is yours then you gotta ENFORCE your rules don't go ask admins for help shit and moan. Its your rules its your idea make the thing fool proof make it 1337.
-Kaylon G.
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Panda you made the Validation system if it is yours then you gotta ENFORCE your rules don't go ask admins for help shit and moan. Its your rules its your idea make the thing fool proof make it 1337.
-Kaylon G.
Panda cant kick/warn/ban/banana anyone, bright spark.
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Validations gives the gangs permission from the server admins to deathmatch one another. I don't see how this is Argonath's vision. I know players that like these validations will say this rarely happens and you can always drop the validations. Fact of the matter is that this happens way too often.
We can use /p and /cb for decent OOC conversations and I don't see why everybody should be using these chat options for trash talking. You can do that in your topics or in role play, but not so everyone will read it. In the end this is what kills the validations I don't even like to start with.
I'd like gangs to drop the validations so we can all back to what we should be doing, having fun with each other and role play. That doesn't seem to be happening with the validations. I don't think there is an alternative for this, except setting certain ground rules between gangs. The only one I can think of is a ground rule on weapons. Because remember, if you don't want to role play with another player, you don't have to. That's different when you are a member of a gang and you don't want to role play with a member from a different gang and these gangs have validations.
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What I meant was post the rules in the Topic and if they don't follow it they get strike and like lose combat for the day
Well its panda's Topic so its his ideas what to do and not do
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Panda you made the Validation system if it is yours then you gotta ENFORCE your rules don't go ask admins for help shit and moan. Its your rules its your idea make the thing fool proof make it 1337.
-Kaylon G.
Its not his idea, it was NitrOx. If you don't know nothing then don't post anything.
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Its not his idea, it was NitrOx. If you don't know nothing then don't post anything.
totally agree with Sean
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Well to be honest, I dont like validation.
Like the rules... they are basic rules from Argonath, like no moaning in main chat or no return after death and things like that.
The rules are the same...
But like putting a validation on enemy?
I dont think thats needed. The only thing its for is gang wars which I rarely see.
So no point in putting it up. If its only happends like 1 every second month then I think its better if we just arrange it like it allready is.
If Validations is to prevent DM to the other group then that wont work, since DM is DM and its just the same as Argonath Rule.
Well, my point is simple, we dont need validations. The only thing that we uses it for is gang wars which we can arrange without validation.
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Its not his idea, it was NitrOx. If you don't know nothing then don't post anything.
Actual it was mine idea, shared with NitrOx who then share it with Panda.:P
Validation system needs improvement, i got few ideas will post later.
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Its not his idea, it was NitrOx. If you don't know nothing then don't post anything.
Actually NitrOx hated the idea, he just wanted a system. The validation system itself was my idea, the concept of a "gangwar system" was indeed his / Cofi's or whatever.
This isn't a moaning topic, I'm asking for ideas to improve/revamp the system.
Validation system needs improvement, i got few ideas will post later.
Good :].
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We should all ask ourselves the main question:
1)Do we want organized dated gang wars ( The leader of both groups setup a date organize a fair fight, etc etc)
2)Or random gang wars, without the whole ooc preparing, making a date, and with the ability to surprise your enemy with the attack.
This is the base of improvement of the system, since it seems that the criminal community is more then, divided about this issue. Some groups like Stracci and Araatus( in the pass tho), were forcing the second way, while Corleone and Gvardia( in the begining) were forcing first one.
Later on Corleone dropped all there valdations cause of mayority of people who supported First way, while we just fight back, transforming our view from First to Second.
So we should first see how should it work out..
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Cofi, as you know, the reason for Araatus dropping the validation was the fact that the second was becoming too intrusive (for both groups, perhaps).
Yes, I did push the second. But I have seen for myself how bad it can be.
Something in between is required. I still hate the "set a time and place" war, but I don't like the total freedom we have at the moment (not anymore, anyway).
Perhaps like people have suggested, we can have a validation for a period of time (a couple of days?).
Any suggestions/ideas are welcome from anyone.
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The problem with not having total freedom is that admins that aren't experienced, and not up to date with the validation system, may just ban/kick/warn people for not actually breaking a rule. If we were to restrict certain parts of it, it would become difficult to tell what is going on. I think we should keep it the way it is. If you don't want the random "DM" ing ( A word thrown around too much, by the way ) then don't sign up for a validation, simple. If you don't like what the other gang is doing, then remove the validations. Odds won't always be in your favour, but thats how you improve your skills. If you constantly get attacked by 3 or 4 others, then learn tactics and strategies to kill 3 or 4 people with what you have. The whole idea is, that if you're in a gang war, you should be afraid to walk the streets without protection, and expect to be killed at any point. Which means you shouldn't just open validations with anyone you don't like. People need to think a little bit before starting a validation, just because some people can't handle what it brings, doesn't mean to stop it, or even to change it.
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Shit, Panda and I think the same. :\
@Maxy Then whats the problem ? Why making this whole topic? Why dropping validations?
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Shit, Panda and I think the same. :\
@Maxy Then whats the problem ? Why making this whole topic? Why dropping validations?
I didn't make this topic, nor did I drop the validation.
Maxy =/= Panda
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How are we suppose to make a agreement or compromise, if you two, as a representatives of Araatus, are talking different storys?
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The main problem with the validation system at the moment are the supposed "gang wars" that take place. Since the first few days of the system being introduced, I haven't experienced a nice, RP'ed gang war. The problem seems to be that groups, including mine, attack each other with silly/stupid numbers. There are countless posts on the forum that suggest this and it will be hard to restrict this in any way.
The only way to stop the 20 Vs. 3 attacks is to indeed arrange some kind of war which can be taken place which will be posted somewhere and is to be kept to. This will be easier to manage however it brings it is not what I would call fun. I personally wouldn't mind if I was attacked on my own as long as it was RP'ed and not just bang bang skit skit ma nigga.
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The Gang War validation system has only become an excuse to DM. I haven't seen one single validation on the list that includes a good roleplay and not only Deatmatching.
Besides, I have seen alot of players irritated to each other because they always want to win the wars, not to mention the provokings, constant returns after death, revenge killing (have saw members of a clan killing members of another because 4 minutes ago they killed one of their members), and argues on main chat.
Stracci Vs Diablos is nice Gangwar validation, sir
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Stracci Vs Diablos is nice Gangwar validation, sir
No its not, I havent seen anything between Stracci and Diablos since Omerta.
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No its not, I havent seen anything between Stracci and Diablos since Omerta.
Exactly the point. I remember nice gang war RP between Diablos and Stracci but now it is all changed.
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No, it wasn't Cofi's idea nor my idea, the validation idea was Panda's idea, my idea was to enforce roleplaying wars in the server, which some of you are too hard to handle with.
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As Panda said(well close),
"Don't join a gang if you don't want to fight".
Arm yourselves and travel in groups, and maybe the attacks will happen less.
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Here's an idea for improvement:
1. It's a validation system, so gang wars should be VALIDATED and APPROVED by someone.
For example the server managers(+)
2. It should be required to state a reason, what is the gang war about (eg. a business ownership)
3. There should also be a statement, at what conditions is a winner determined and what is the prize
(eg. longest cop chase with a Bullet wins ownership of the car; fastest capture the point game wins a territory or business)
Gang wars should have an end and a purpose. They should not be a reason for a shoot-out.
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Here's an idea for improvement:
1. It's a validation system, so gang wars should be VALIDATED and APPROVED by someone.
For example the server managers(+)
2. It should be required to state a reason, what is the gang war about (eg. a business ownership)
3. There should also be a statement, at what conditions is a winner determined and what is the prize
(eg. longest cop chase with a Bullet wins ownership of the car; fastest capture the point game wins a territory or business)
Gang wars should have an end and a purpose. They should not be a reason for a shoot-out.
Maybe a period to the fight should be added. :D
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Here's an idea for improvement:
1. It's a validation system, so gang wars should be VALIDATED and APPROVED by someone.
For example the server managers(+)
The whole point was to avoid regular and required involvement from managers.
2. It should be required to state a reason, what is the gang war about (eg. a business ownership)
Good idea.
3. There should also be a statement, at what conditions is a winner determined and what is the prize
(eg. longest cop chase with a Bullet wins ownership of the car; fastest capture the point game wins a territory or business)
Its a TDM situation (a gangwar) not an objective FPS game 0.o.
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Im curious... how was the system before the validation came?
Was it less DM or more DM?
Well, just asking because I joined after it came so... ye.
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There was the same amount, but everything was hidden in an effort to avoid being punished for DM.
The validation system just bubbled it to the surface.
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What is needed is a PHP Database, with a login system & where they can 'create' gang pages, for validation, wich admins can check. (?)
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What is needed is a PHP Database, with a login system & where they can 'create' gang pages, for validation, wich admins can check. (?)
I think I can do that.
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Im curious... how was the system before the validation came?
Was it less DM or more DM?
Well, just asking because I joined after it came so... ye.
You dont wanna know. :D Hiding from both cops, feds, and admins, in order to have a simple shotout-priceless.
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Here's an idea for improvement:
1. It's a validation system, so gang wars should be VALIDATED and APPROVED by someone.
For example the server managers(+)
2. It should be required to state a reason, what is the gang war about (eg. a business ownership)
3. There should also be a statement, at what conditions is a winner determined and what is the prize
(eg. longest cop chase with a Bullet wins ownership of the car; fastest capture the point game wins a territory or business)
Gang wars should have an end and a purpose. They should not be a reason for a shoot-out.
Absolutely supported.
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@sean: Nitr0x said it wasn't his idea. So if you don't know nothing to post.
(Sorry was irratated for that snap you did to me and I knew what I was talking about so....)