Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Jerry on December 21, 2009, 04:19:11 pm

Title: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Jerry on December 21, 2009, 04:19:11 pm

One day i was weapon dealing,drug dealing etc...,Then when i got my clients frome the street i asked admin to spectate us,so noone can scam,but the admin toled me that admins can't do nothing if you get scammed and that admins won't interfack in deals.

So if that means admins wont do anything if you get scammed,you are helpless against scammers,exept for courts.

So my question is ,does this mean players can go on scamming other players and wont get punsihed?
   

I asked the admin abaut this ,and he holed me this ''Scamming is allowed,but at the same time it's not.''

What does that mean?

Signed : Jerry_Stracci

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Cero on December 21, 2009, 04:44:21 pm

Some admin told me it's allowed to scam regulars, not new people  :roll:

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Bilbo on December 21, 2009, 04:50:19 pm

Scamming is always bannable, and by this it means scamming both new players and regulars.
In another words, it means tricking other players to give their money or property to you.

But when it comes to illegal objects, such as drug dealing or illegal weapon dealing (selling weapons outside ammunation is illegal), it's on your own responsibility to take care you don't get scammed. So you should only deal with trusted people, or while carrying a weapon or backup with you. As, admins or cops cannot help you if you get "scammed" or tricked in illegal deals. This same also goes to illegal gambling, as only gambles made inside a Casino are legal.

Hopefully this answered to your questions and cleared the situation up.

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Andy on December 21, 2009, 04:58:02 pm

Also when gambling, You are allowed to scam. Like by not giving them money..

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Gerrie = Banned (Daco) on December 21, 2009, 05:00:33 pm

You are allowed to scam your mate when you two gamble on BlackJack or dice or whatever, even inside a casino, but the owner(s) must be not present at the time I think.

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: aan_okeh on December 21, 2009, 06:07:49 pm

Scamming can be RP too.  :conf:

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: cDa on December 21, 2009, 06:29:04 pm

Quote from: Andy on December 21, 2009, 04:58:02 pm

Also when gambling, You are allowed to scam. Like by not giving them money..

huh???

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Pandalink on December 21, 2009, 06:36:16 pm

Quote from: cDa on December 21, 2009, 06:29:04 pm

huh???

He isn't incorrect..

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: hell1989 on December 21, 2009, 06:47:17 pm

From the sticky gambling topic.

Quote from: Kojak on November 21, 2009, 12:20:54 pm

GAMBLE AT YOUR OWN RISK

If you choose to play dice with another player you should keep in mind that you are not playing dice against Argonath, but against a random player who may or may not pay you your winnings. Dice is not officially sanctioned by Argonath and Argonath will not take responsibility for any losses you incur while engaged in this type of activity.

Players who 'scam' you by not paying you your winnings will not be banned or forced to pay you. You and you alone are responsible for your money and Argonath administration will no longer intervene in such matters.

If you find yourself the victim of such a scam, you may call the police of take the perpetrator to court, although you should not be surprised if you find the authorities are not especially enthusiastic about helping you.

If you're reading this and you think it means you have a green light to seek out new players so you can part them from their money using this method, for your own sake please think again. Argonath will protect new players from the parasites and predators of San Andreas and if you are found to have wilfully scammed a new player in any way you will be exiled to a far away place in the form of a ban. Be warned.

Kojak

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Y2JFaN on December 21, 2009, 07:17:36 pm

That rule is truthfully unfair to me because now there is no reason for dice anymore because you dont even have to pay. Its like playing for nothing. I've been scammed over 6 months (from dice games) 2,150,000. Or very close to it.

I have asked of this that if we are 'scammed' from a dice game, if we were allowed to spread rumor on their name as scammers. All i got as a response was 'Just not /ad.' So from now on I suggest whoever scammed you to $h1t their name to h3ll because there is nothing else you can do now.

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: MisterSjeiks on December 21, 2009, 08:44:33 pm

there are multiple kinds of ''Scam''

scamming like this isnt allowed: /wire xx 10000 gives you cash.

scamming like this is allowed: xx throws 1 at dice
                                        zz throws 2 at dice
                                        xx: damn
                                        zz: pay me
                                        xx runs

(but in both of them, scamming new players = against the rules)

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Stanley_Taylor on December 21, 2009, 10:17:16 pm

If you are scammed by a regular, talk to the gangs leaders. That way most potential victims will be protected from future scamming by that player.

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Cutt3r on December 22, 2009, 04:52:39 pm

It is feared that many of you do not understand what  scam is. It has been said before, it will be repeated again:

Scamming is when you PAY and you do not get it back. For example paying money to a player as a loan and he changes name to avoid detection and then again takes money from another and so forth. Dice games are no scam, you do not pay anything. You were lucky to win the game of random numbers, that is it. You did not pay anything and were not scammed in any sense at all...

If you really do want to have fair play in a dice game ensure you have the owner of a casino(legal) or a third person whom both of you trust when you gamble in a casino. Both of you send him the money and then play. Whoever wins gets the cash from him.

Why create a mountain of a molehill if you already have a solution...Usage of the word 'scam' is honestly more than what is warranted really...

Cutt3r

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Pandalink on December 22, 2009, 05:59:13 pm

That is the Argonath definition of "scam", Cutter, and thats fine.
But yes, in essence, scamming is allowed as a dice game with a 5k prize results in the winner winning 5k. If the loser does not pay, the winner loses that 5k. The logic is infallible, but the Argonath rules do not follow this.
And as I've said, thats absolutely fine.

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Gerrie = Banned (Daco) on December 22, 2009, 06:49:06 pm

Maybe you should read the sticky topics before posting, Jerry .... :idea:

Click me (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=46060.0).

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Petar on December 22, 2009, 07:39:01 pm

Quote from: Pandalink on December 22, 2009, 05:59:13 pm

That is the Argonath definition of "scam", Cutter, and thats fine.
But yes, in essence, scamming is allowed as a dice game with a 5k prize results in the winner winning 5k. If the loser does not pay, the winner loses that 5k. The logic is infallible, but the Argonath rules do not follow this.
And as I've said, thats absolutely fine.

Actualy , Player 1 has 10k , Player 2 has 10k Also , They dice in 5k . Player 1 Wins. Player 2 Doesn't pay. Player 1 loses nothing.

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Pandalink on December 22, 2009, 07:44:26 pm

No.
The game's winner is credited 5k based on the bet.

Player 1 wins.
Player 1 has 10k, and is owed 5k by Player 2.
Player 2 has 10k, but owes Player 1 5k.

If Player 2 does not pay, player 1 loses that 5k that he is owed.
Hence, dice scamming is allowed, but by Argonath's rules, that is not a scam.

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Bilbo on December 22, 2009, 07:46:44 pm

Yes because you don't actually lose any money of your own.

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on December 22, 2009, 07:55:46 pm

Some admins have said in big bold announcement: Gamble at your own risk.

The bureau of citizens Advice regards gambling as a safe haven to scammers.

I say... BOO. Scamming shouldn't be allowed. I could let my brother play on my account (unlikly) , he could want to gamble and would not know the rules because he is new even if he is using a regulars account... He could get scammed...

Scamming is bad...

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: Gandalf on December 22, 2009, 09:01:25 pm

Scamming includes a loss of monetary value.
If there is no loss, but gains are not paid, the most we can call it is attempted scamming.

Scamming will not be punished when :
- there is no loss. Not getting what you were promised as in gambling does not include a monetary loss, and there for will not be punished.

- It involves illegal deals. Illegal weapon or drug deals include a risk to get scammed, however if a player reports such scam it is investigated. If found that it was a clear setup with no RP intent but only to get the goods or money, there will be punishment.

If because of this players do not wish to gamble outside of casino's, deal drugs or weapons, that will be applauded by the admin team.

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: VeLuX on December 23, 2009, 04:55:05 am

Quote from: Gandalf on December 22, 2009, 09:01:25 pm

Scamming includes a loss of monetary value.
If there is no loss, but gains are not paid, the most we can call it is attempted scamming.

Scamming will not be punished when :
- there is no loss. Not getting what you were promised as in gambling does not include a monetary loss, and there for will not be punished.

- It involves illegal deals. Illegal weapon or drug deals include a risk to get scammed, however if a player reports such scam it is investigated. If found that it was a clear setup with no RP intent but only to get the goods or money, there will be punishment.

If because of this players do not wish to gamble outside of casino's, deal drugs or weapons, that will be applauded by the admin team.

Just to get this 100 procent clear

Gambling outside a casino with "scaming" are not being punishment for, Right??

Gambling inside a casino are Noted as "Scam" right???

Just a Question, becourse there are biig confusion about this...
Gandalf if you would answer it would be great

Title: Re: Is scamming allowed?
Post by: JDC on December 23, 2009, 05:26:42 am

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.