Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Devin on March 13, 2010, 10:25:25 pm
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Some will call this "asslicking" others may call this "sucking up" but I honestly couldnt care what you want to call this.
For the past few days which I have been online with these new scripts there is the few who are grateful for the new scripts but those others who seem to show no respect or maturity towards the administration and development team are really getting pathetic now.
Today with the new lot of vehicles "bikes" and other vehicles, many people seemed to enjoy abusing the new vehicles, even after warnings due to the lack of respect, this is getting ridiculous.
As for the lagging of the server, CBF, David and others have spent their own time working on these scripts, you dont realize how much work goes into even a simple /carlock script and all the testing involved, yet people still wish to moan and moan about simple things like a small bug in the scripts, there is already a board of the forums for bug reports but people dont honestly give a fuck to report it because they just want to scream out in the Main Chat about bugs instead of do something about helping to get it fixed by reporting it.
Earlier there was really bad lagging going on within the server with the new scripts, CBF had said people must stop moaning and disturbing him while he is trying to work on the scripts yet people decided to just ignore his wish and showing the maturity of members some managed to piss him off enough to make him go offline and leaving everyone with the lag because he had said he will not work if people keep disrespecting his wishes and disturbing him as well as moaning, after he left people continued moaning about lag and other issues, when an administrator tells you to do something simple like not moan, just listen to them and stop seeking attention from all others by screaming in Main Chat "OMG OMG MY CAR IS BUGGED" and just send a /pm to one of the online Administrators and ask for help, simple as that.
If you do not like the scripts, or have a problem with the scripts or development team, you are free to leave the server, no one is forcing you to be here. So if you dont want to show respect towards the Development team, Leave or Dont complain about problems.
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I 100% Agree with you, but you are being no better posting this. People will only fight and complain more here...
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I agree, Madd Boi
But about screaming on mainchat, is it saying like 1 time each 20 seconds (while there's no response) "My car's bugged! What should I do??" screaming? Or did I miss something? :neutral:
EDIT:
I 100% Agree with you, but you are being no better posting this. People will only fight and complain more here...
You are forbidding him from shouting his opinion?
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I 100% Agree with you, but you are being no better posting this. People will only fight and complain more here...
Its better for me to post this and maybe some will realise, most probably wont, but let them come here and complain, im sure the forum administrators will sort them out if they cause problems.
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Today's evening, I left the server very suddenly, because I had party today, which went very bad and it caused my mood to fall. Now the lag caused the mood to fall even more, so I decided to leave before I get really mad.
I just have to agree with you, MadBoi. Some people think that it is just some small thing(scripting) and they can do anything they want and all their wishes will be completed.
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EDIT:You are forbidding him from shouting his opinion?
No, kind sir. I am simply stating that he will most likely be talked to by an admin, as David stated, that the words of moaners do not effect them, and any assumptions or such about it are wrong. Making this topic, VERY true, and should be enforced, but also it is just not going to do much except cause more fights of people moaning and complaining.
Just my 2 cents. (Not trying to offend, but this is the real truth of things, and we all know it)
@ Madboi: Yes, but they will also sort you out by chance for making these topics, as the ones similar to this have just been locked.
@ Janar: An example of a good player, and a GREAT way to deal with this stuff.
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It's extremely important to understand the amount of time and effort CBFasi, David_Omid and Gimli are applying to Argonath. Their efforts are not going unnoticed and are commended throughout the wider community for being one of integrity and excellence. Whilst this may be overshadowed by the lag, we can speed up recovery by all playing our part to reduce pressure on them and help in any given way by following simple guidelines they set out.
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As CBFasi told he made it for 36 hours and we had fun while he was working.
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Totally agree with you, they spam on chat to get some attention, i hope they would really grow up and finally understand and get the point!!!
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Argonath script is awesome. By selling it they could earn a fortune.
I hate when people is complaining about the new car system.
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I 100% Agree with you, but you are being no better posting this. People will only fight and complain more here...
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It's fun to see, now here in forums, everyone suddenly "agrees" with you madboi, when some of them are the moaners ingame.
Though people should understand that, they cannot accomplish anything with their moaning, it will make things even worse, and will cost even more time, so, before you are unhappy with things, think before "Stating your facts" in main chat.
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It's fun to see, now here in forums, everyone suddenly "agrees" with you madboi, when some of them are the moaners ingame.
Thats the general Irony, when ever a person makes a topic like this, the people who where and are moaning ingame agree on the topic that its wrong...
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We have to Thank them, for upgrading and keeping server with the best perfomance, not complaining everytime something goes wrong...
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Ppl keeps moaing even tro it's a great change in the work, be happy we got it now than later even tro it might be buggy in the start, help them squeese the bugs out, also we wouln't have these great scripts without CBF, david and gimli ( at sertain points )
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i agree with you Madboi!! thats for sure im also getting very tired of seing people writing in main chat "Zomg i found a bugz0r" now i will abuse it :evil:, or some doesnt abuse them but what ever thats how people are, lack of respect in my eyes!, good point about this thanks for posting it :bow:
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If people won't stop with the moaning, I will issue some tempbans.
does it make me popular? no.
will it make the server calmer and enjoyable? yes.
what's more important? i'll leave you guys to that question :)
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No, kind sir. I am simply stating that he will most likely be talked to by an admin, as David stated, that the words of moaners do not effect them, and any assumptions or such about it are wrong. Making this topic, VERY true, and should be enforced, but also it is just not going to do much except cause more fights of people moaning and complaining.
Just my 2 cents. (Not trying to offend, but this is the real truth of things, and we all know it)
I understand :L
If people won't stop with the moaning, I will issue some tempbans.
does it make me popular? no.
will it make the server calmer and enjoyable? yes.
what's more important? i'll leave you guys to that question :)
Calm and enjoyable server ftw
The only problem about most (don't get me wrong) servers is that bad atmosphere is EVERYWHERE...
Argo is not one of these servers is it?
But the LOWEST thing I've ever heard about lag is kicking those who have major ping... Gee thanks. I'm still wondering how my ping of 70-100 (according to SA:MP Client BEFORE entering Argonath) can jump up to 200+...
Some people rather expelling others just to have less lag and have fun for themselves... for me it's like expelling a poor person, that has always been loyal, out of a clan because everyone else is rich...
People aren't described with silly numbers...
at<end_rage> action<post_reply>;
after<post_reply> action<leave_topic>;
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Bump.
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Any of the Administrators or Developers have any thoughts they would like to give, go ahead..
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fuck moaners!!!!
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f**k moaners!!!!
Hahah, says the moaner, who made a big fucking topic just to moan. :lol:
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Hahah, says the moaner, who made a big f**king topic just to moan. :lol:
That was the irony of what I said, and I said it with the intention of having this irony. Nice work in picking it out.
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Oh, yeah, funny, you made my day!
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All i can say, is just a simple "Fuck off" to all these moaners who moan on new scripts. I reccomend you moaners to learn whole PAWN tutorial, and learn scripting as good as CBF and David does. THEN maybe you will respect their hard work.
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Remember that our scripts were made from scratch (RS4 was built on RS3, which resulted in one way or another from the scratch work of Argonath Developers), unlike other Servers, many of which have shitty GodFather edits. :)
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PAWN IS BASIC CEE PLUS PLUS
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f**k moaners!!!!
\m/
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It's extremely important to understand the amount of time and effort CBFasi, David_Omid and Gimli are applying to Argonath. Their efforts are not going unnoticed and are commended throughout the wider community for being one of integrity and excellence. Whilst this may be overshadowed by the lag, we can speed up recovery by all playing our part to reduce pressure on them and help in any given way by following simple guidelines they set out.
yeah, they're been scripting all the time.Anyways i think that Argonath is takin away their everyday lives.
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If you do not like the scripts, or have a problem with the scripts or development team, you are free to leave the server, no one is forcing you to be here. So if you dont want to show respect towards the Development team, Leave or Dont complain about problems.
Quoted for truth.
After all, for each moaner that leaves the other people can enjoy Argonath without getting agitated every time they're online even more.
The scripters did a simply AWESOME job with the scripts. The car system here is completely unique (with the state-owned cars in front of cardealers) and so are countless other scripts. Lag is just a side-effect because SA:MP cannot take the awesomeness of these scripts.
Post Merge: March 17, 2010, 12:48:19 pm
It's extremely important to understand the amount of time and effort CBFasi, David_Omid and Gimli are applying to Argonath. Their efforts are not going unnoticed and are commended throughout the wider community for being one of integrity and excellence. Whilst this may be overshadowed by the lag, we can speed up recovery by all playing our part to reduce pressure on them and help in any given way by following simple guidelines they set out.
Sensible as always.
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If there's something you dislike about the updates, this forum is the best place. There's nothing wrong with sharing your thoughts about the updates, as long as you are not bugging the developers about it and you are keeping it nice. I personally enjoy the new updates so thanks again.
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Due to this being something which is extremely valid at this current time, im bumping this topic up a bit.
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Topic like this will never change anything...
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Do I care? no.
I made this topic to try bring some awareness to the people at the start of the month as I knew this was going to happen soon, people ignored me and see what happened.
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I understand what you're trying to say here but, the people you're trying to reach out to will never care.
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I know it is hard for many of the scripting team and some of the leaders, but we already got used to it.
If we make something the players want, they will find a way to abuse it.
If we lighten control on the rules, players will make their own.
If we allow one thing, players will find 100 other things that they feel should be allowed as well.
Don't worry, its all in the nature of growing up. As players are growing from child to adult they:
- test the limits of any authority, regardless if the authority is their own age or other
- try to circumvent any rules to gain something for themselves
- will be absolutely sure that their opinion is valid and tru, all others are wrong.
- will throw a hissy fit if they do not get their way
In a few years it will disappear. At least for some of the better ones.
Others will remain childish pricks their whole life.
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Its a shame, how a certain few feel the need to give attitude towards those who are creating things for them to use.
They ask for something and are given it to use, then they feel the need to abuse it instead of being greatful for it and respecting what they have been given instead.
If they feel the need to show no respect and constantly try to cause problems, I do not wish to know how they act in life, since they seem to depict themselves as selfish kids most of the time.
In life, you always meet those who show respect to anyone, no matter how they look or who they are and then you get those arrogent ones who think that they are better than any others because of money, their dress, where they live or any other of those, once they start earning money for themselves and having more than one task to do daily they shall realise how the amount of work the developers are under is extremely difficult to do all at once and then take the grief from those whom have attitude about the developers work and action after a long day at work and now their second jobs which have to be done.
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In life, you always meet those who show respect to anyone, no matter how they look or who they are and then you get those arrogent ones who think that they are better than any others because of money, their dress, where they live or any other of those
Word.
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Moaners turning coat when a Developer leaves
I am honestly disgusted and pissed off by the idea that some people, some moaners, who moan nothing but stupid bullshit about how entire Server is cop-biased, would come crawling whenever one of the scripters would make a topic about how they are tired or how they might leave.
I am not accusing any specific person who posted in any of those goodbye topics to be a moaner, but observation has told me that even moaners would post in a possible-goodbye topic just so that they won't lose a scripter or developer.
Criminals moaning in spite of easier conditions
If we make something the players want, they will find a way to abuse it.
There are even plans for Criminal script support from David, and CBF, an SAPD Chief, has done so much to help Criminals (cheaper weapons, escape system, more restrictions for cops), but no, moaners had to continue with their stupid moaning bullshit.
"Weapons are so expensive!"
- The hell? We have many Cops dying each day because of Criminals who have shitload of heavy weapons! If ammunation is so fucking expensive, then all those weapons have got to be hacked! *rolls eyes*
"Cops always win!"
- Maybe you just don't have skill to win over Cops.
"I can't f**king get away from these Cops!"
- Then you don't know how to escape properly!!!
Well then if you think the system is SO against them, why don't we f**king put them in a Server with RS3 Scripts and THEN we'll see if things are hard for them in the current Server!
Rules and "Dictatorship" in Argonath by Admins
If we lighten control on the rules, players will make their own.
This is very true. As long as everyone isn't allowed to do everything they want, there will always be moaners. Wait, if that happens, then we will have people moaning that there is chaos then!
People point fingers at the Admin Team, accusing us of "ZOMG ABOOZ ABOOZ" and screaming how this Admin or that Moderator is abusive and how power has gotten into their heads simply because we are executing our duty of enforcing the rules. People then moan of dictatorship and too strict rules- get real, in other Communities moaning gets players banned instantly.
In case you're wondering about the quotes, this is not a response to Gandalf's post. I'm merely writing about things related to the items in his post.
I have my limits as well, and seeing all these moaners, now adding CBF wanting to leave because of these f**king moaners, just pissed me off so much, hence this post. I'm just a human as well, all of us from trial Moderators up to the Owners are human, not robots who people can just heap stress on because "Oh, they can handle it anyway, they're used to it".
I'm sorry.
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I agree as far as not many people are respecting the Developers. Which is pretty stupid because without them we would not have Argonath. You people should be thankful for what they have sacrificed for us. I love these guys just like the community like my brothers and friends. Without them i never would have started to play SA:MP. Also not only is the general public showing disrespect to developers, but i am seeing a lot of hate towards each other. Moaner's as far as im concerned can leave...they do not deserve to play here. If you have a complaint, im sure you can PM a Mod or Admin or something and create somewhat of a intelligent 'letter'. Also, another thing im seeing is when someone in Public chat starts to moan and flame....and then 5-6 others tell him to shut up or whatever....Honestly i do not think we need to say "Shut up and stop moaning", im quite sure we can just say "
Shut up and[please] stop moaning" respect even towards someone who hates you or let the present Mod's or admins handle it, they do their job quite well in this server. No body is perfect but that does not mean we should start disrespecting the people who brought us this 'Mona Lisa' our Argonath.
I just want to say that i look at this community as a decent group of friends, even the ones that i do not necessarily role play with or really interact with. That without these developers i would never have met any of you. A few of you have become good Out side of Game friends and its awesome to know i have a good friend to talk to or play a rpg with when i have had a stressful day at school. For this i thank you.
Note: Too all you hater's, grow up and show some respect. If we wish to advance, we must work together, not against each other.
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This is a game.
I play it to have fun.
Some people treat it like its their life.
Fear is the fuel of respect.
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Some people treat it like its their life.
That's true, sadly.
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People seem not to be able to see the difference between moaning, discussing and stating their point of view.
For example, when a certain criminal says that SWAT/FBI/ARPD get way too much script support, they are called moaners.
When cops state that criminals escape way too easily on bikes, they get removed.
I know there's a story behind all that, but that's exactly how it might seem to a bystander. Unless people are given perfect, comprehensible explanations about the developers' actions and the like, they will always find something to moan about.
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People seem not to be able to see the difference between moaning, discussing and stating their point of view.
For example, when a certain criminal says that SWAT/FBI/ARPD get way too much script support, they are called moaners.
When cops state that criminals escape way too easily on bikes, they get removed.
I know there's a story behind all that, but that's exactly how it might seem to a bystander. Unless people are given perfect, comprehensible explanations about the developers' actions and the like, they will always find something to moan about.
Unless players accept that the developers always look at several angles before taking any action, they will continue to moan discuss.
I have in the discussion requested multiple times what criminals want as script support. The answers:
- a HQ (like you can find official criminal HQ in any city)
- gang cars (so they do not have to use their own / can let their member buy more weapons)
- weapon spawn (because they want free weapons too)
Criminal groups have a lot less rules to follow, and they should realise that with script support will come a number of rules for them to follow as well.
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Criminals got enough script support already in my opinion, and yes I was one of them ''omg cops got too much power ffs we don't get shit".
People who are still pursuing moaning those are the ones who I can't understand, I guess they won't shut up until the developers give them /weaponequip too or something, which is completely out of the f**king question.
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Unless players accept that the developers always look at several angles before taking any action, they will continue to moan discuss.
This is why I'm rooting for a community helping board. It shows that the communication between the players and the development team is lacking and inappropiate. Concerned players need to have some form of acknowledgement by the development team and their arguments rebuttaled by them. If they don't have that, you can expect 'moaning' in this wide-open community. It would be a whole lot more efficient and effective when there would be players/admins speaking for the developers...
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I have in the discussion requested multiple times what criminals want as script support. The answers:
- a HQ (like you can find official criminal HQ in any city)
- gang cars (so they do not have to use their own / can let their member buy more weapons)
- weapon spawn (because they want free weapons too)
Criminal groups have a lot less rules to follow, and they should realise that with script support will come a number of rules for them to follow as well.
Yes, I understand that. Criminals can pretty much shoot anyone that even touches their car in the face while the SAPD has to go through a long procedure to even be able to hit the bloke with a nitestick.
I've seen things from a criminal side and by all means I do not wish for criminals to have official headquarters and script support since things are fine as they are now. Then again, I don't think SWAT and FBI deserve the script support they're getting at the moment. The idea by itself is good but those scripts are not needed since both groups were doing very well before any /weaponequip and gates to barricade themselves off from the outside world.
It's just my opinion though, you shouldn't count that as moaning.
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Don't do criminal stuff if ya don't wanna get shot :lol:
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- weapon spawn (because they want free weapons too)
Although this point seems valid and fair, I would personally be against that system, it would allow people to abuse script to recieve more weapons and they would literally camp at the weapon area and just get more and more while shooting cops.
If this was a Cops & Robbers setup of a server, this would be a great setup but in all due respect, it will cause more problems with abuse and people would just go there for free weapons constantly.
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This is why I'm rooting for a community helping board. It shows that the communication between the players and the development team is lacking and inappropiate. Concerned players need to have some form of acknowledgement by the development team and their arguments rebuttaled by them. If they don't have that, you can expect 'moaning' in this wide-open community. It would be a whole lot more efficient and effective when there would be players/admins speaking for the developers...
While a community helping board might be set, the question is what exactly will people expect from it, and what will it bring for us.
For scripts we have the 'ideas' boards, where you often find repetition of either ideas from other servers, or rooting for causes that have been answered by developers as not going to be.
For explanation on the rules we have the 'ask the developers topic' which is not very active, yest questions are answered.
As for clarity regarding new ideas, our ideas are usually followed to some extent by other servers. There for bringing out ideas before they are realised is not a good thing.
What rests is what can be called 'moaning'.... discussing topics that will not change anything, will not bring new ideas but are just used for players to throw out their frustrations at times.
If you can find a good way to explain what you wish, please go ahead as discussion is not something we avoid.
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While a community helping board might be set, the question is what exactly will people expect from it, and what will it bring for us.
For scripts we have the 'ideas' boards, where you often find repetition of either ideas from other servers, or rooting for causes that have been answered by developers as not going to be.
For explanation on the rules we have the 'ask the developers topic' which is not very active, yest questions are answered.
As for clarity regarding new ideas, our ideas are usually followed to some extent by other servers. There for bringing out ideas before they are realised is not a good thing.
What rests is what can be called 'moaning'.... discussing topics that will not change anything, will not bring new ideas but are just used for players to throw out their frustrations at times.
If you can find a good way to explain what you wish, please go ahead as discussion is not something we avoid.
Creating a script idea is a process that is currently formed by individuals. A community board who has room to work on the creation of script ideas would lead to more sophisticated ideas that have a bigger potential of being implemented. A good example is the gang weapons/cars spawn. This idea was introduced by a few players and the introduction was not worked out so well. In time it did, but this idea topic could easily gone to the second page where it ends up to be forgotton and brought up a few months later again by another player who usually doesn't even know the existence of that older topic. In short, players who are helped by a community board would bring better ideas and tasks would be better divided, not mentioning scripters would somewhat be relieved from their duties. I thought this was one of the main reasons Alfred introduced this idea. That's just scripts.
A community board could help bring new non-script things to the server. Such as financing and organizing events and role-play situations like setting up new legal businesses.
What was also on Alfred's mind, was how new players could be helped. There have been 'schools' where new players would be helped making their first steps. A board could do the same. I'm simply talking about explaing the rules, how to role play, how to set up teamspeak.
Many topics under the General Discussion board are considered moaning. I just look at it differently. Players want to share their thoughts on what they feel is something incorrect and I feel they should be listened to and not labelled as moaners. If Argonath doesn't listen to their players they loose touch with the community and the players loose interest. A community board with spokesmen for admins could resolve issues.
I'm sure you and Frank are well aware of Alfred's explanation so I don't think it needs further conversation at this point.
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Creating a script idea is a process that is currently formed by individuals. A community board who has room to work on the creation of script ideas would lead to more sophisticated ideas that have a bigger potential of being implemented. A good example is the gang weapons/cars spawn. This idea was introduced by a few players and the introduction was not worked out so well. In time it did, but this idea topic could easily gone to the second page where it ends up to be forgotton and brought up a few months later again by another player who usually doesn't even know the existence of that older topic.
This exactly contradicts your idea, as in spite of clear requests for the players asking to work it out, it did not happen.
A similar project has been the 'gang war validations', which was thought up by the players, who eventually understood that the system is hard to work.
In short, players who are helped by a community board would bring better ideas and tasks would be better divided, not mentioning scripters would somewhat be relieved from their duties. I thought this was one of the main reasons Alfred introduced this idea. That's just scripts.
It would not relieve the scriptes, as they would have to come up with the implementation of the idea in such a way that players will not be able to find advantages that were not plaaned to happen. This is, because of the nature of the players, the main problem for scripters, and a community board will not change this.
A community board could help bring new non-script things to the server. Such as financing and organizing events and role-play situations like setting up new legal businesses.
This is also already present in the current boards.
What was also on Alfred's mind, was how new players could be helped. There have been 'schools' where new players would be helped making their first steps. A board could do the same. I'm simply talking about explaing the rules, how to role play, how to set up teamspeak.
As the community has no clear idea on which things to teach, a school of Argonath RP would be interesting,. however many players might object to new players following what would be taught there, as they follow their own rules.
Many topics under the General Discussion board are considered moaning. I just look at it differently. Players want to share their thoughts on what they feel is something incorrect and I feel they should be listened to and not labelled as moaners. If Argonath doesn't listen to their players they loose touch with the community and the players loose interest. A community board with spokesmen for admins could resolve issues.
I'm sure you and Frank are well aware of Alfred's explanation so I don't think it needs further conversation at this point.
Argonath has always listened to the players, and will continue to do so. However listening to the players is not equal to following the players.
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This exactly contradicts your idea, as in spite of clear requests for the players asking to work it out, it did not happen.
A similar project has been the 'gang war validations', which was thought up by the players, who eventually understood that the system is hard to work.
Doesn't how the gang weapons/cars spawn topic went, exactly show why a community helping center would be benificial? I don't see how it contradicts the idea. Argonath didn't have that a community helping center then. Also, there are different opinions as to why the 'gang war validations' failed. But everybody can agree that not all the gangs were applying the same rules. Point being that the community should spend more time as to creating ideas together that would serve the interest of all groups.
As the community has no clear idea on which things to teach, a school of Argonath RP would be interesting,. however many players might object to new players following what would be taught there, as they follow their own rules.
Could be something good for clans.
Argonath has always listened to the players, and will continue to do so. However listening to the players is not equal to following the players.
Well you have to agree with me that since Aragorn spoke of leaving, nearly everybody who disagrees with someone who comes up with an idea is called a moaner, without using the sake of argument. I wonder if this is praised or not :conf:
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"Weapons are so expensive!"
"Cops always win!"
"I can't f**king get away from these Cops!"
None of these are criminal concerns, stop deluding yourself that we're moaners when you need to look in the mirror, JDC.
A similar project has been the 'gang war validations', which was thought up by the players, who eventually understood that the system is hard to work.
The gangwar validations system was flawed from the start because I am not going to update it forever. Whenever I take a break from Argonath, the gangwar system breaks down. This should not happen.
If we had a web based PHP/other script that did the validation system on its own, it would work flawlessly. However, I do not yet know any web-based programming languages with which to implement it.
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None of these are criminal concerns, stop deluding yourself that we're moaners when you need to look in the mirror, JDC.
What about the numerous incidents of known Criminals moaning the very things I quoted? :lol:
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Find me a single quote of the things you mentioned.
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"Cops have everything ffs!" or "Cops have too many advantages!"
petition to allow suspects on motorcycles (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=51907)
Cops get everything on this server. There's even scripts to ensure that they win against the criminals.
Supported!
Rocket Launcher or more motorycyles! (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=50269)
NO! Enough advantages to cops already! This is going to be ridiculous if it happens.
Cop idea (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=48100.0)
Cops already got to many advantages
Yes they do cops get f**king free Deagle when we gotta spend tons to get some.
Also, if you look in the You want fairness? (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=46832.90) topic by David, you will notice Grzesiek is one of the few, if not the only one who attempted to portray both sides as balanced, as opposed to dozens of moaners who take time to make Cop Advantages list as long as possible and Criminal Disadvantages list as short as possible, as an indirect way of saying "We can't f*cking get away" or "Cops always win".
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And yet none of the things you quoted relate in any strong way to the statements you posted. The things you quoted are also all true, but thats irrelevant.
To break it down:
:: None of them complain about weapon prices.
:: None of them complain about " cops always winning".
:: None of them complain about not being able to escape from cops.
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Also, if you look in the You want fairness? (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=46832.90) topic by David, you will notice Grzesiek is one of the few, if not the only one who attempted to portray both sides as balanced, as opposed to dozens of moaners who take time to make Cop Advantages list as long as possible and Criminal Disadvantages list as short as possible, as an indirect way of saying "We can't f*cking get away" or "Cops always win".
If Grzesiek would've attempted to portray both sides as balanced, he would've repudiated and I don't think he did. Weird how an admin makes it sound like that would be a good thing to do...
The moaners you speak off, included not only criminals, but also admins and cops. Almost everybody tried their best to make a list with advantages they knew. I know this comes as a shock to you, because of your inability to place yourself in others, but nobody shares all the same experiences as you. Everybody has their own beliefs and the sooner you realize that, the better. It doesn't do Argonath any good to have admins calling players 'moaners' for something they honestly believe in would work better for Argonath.
I bet you really hate the new changes. You're not moaning about it to the leaders right? :evil:
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And yet none of the things you quoted relate in any strong way to the statements you posted. The things you quoted are also all true, but thats irrelevant.
To break it down:
:: None of them complain about weapon prices.
:: None of them complain about " cops always winning".
:: None of them complain about not being able to escape from cops.
I only searched in the SA:MP Ideas board and nowhere else.
If Grzesiek would've attempted to portray both sides as balanced, he would've repudiated and I don't think he did. Weird how an admin makes it sound like that would be a good thing to do...
The moaners you speak off, included not only criminals, but also admins and cops. Almost everybody tried their best to make a list with advantages they knew. I know this comes as a shock to you, because of your inability to place yourself in others, but nobody shares all the same experiences as you. Everybody has their own beliefs and the sooner you realize that, the better. It doesn't do Argonath any good to have admins calling players 'moaners' for something they honestly believe in would work better for Argonath.
I bet you really hate the new changes. You're not moaning about it to the leaders right? :evil:
Not able to place myself in the shoes of others?
I'm sorry but I laughed out loud at that statement of yours. I have also experienced life as a Criminal, since I did crimes on my UC Account in order to study them (it was in one of those incidents as well where I learned that hitting a moving car in a pursuit with melee attacks would do a better job than shooting it from on top, since I shook off 2 Freecops and 1 Cadet from the roof of my car, all of who failed to stop me by shooting with their guns, only to have my car blown up by a lone Freecop who used melee attacks), so you can stop your "JDC, you're a one-sided biased moaner" bullshit now.
We have people going around pointing at and ranting about how utterly unfair and hard the system is for Criminals, when it in fact is a lot easier for them as opposed to the RS3 scripts (every day, we have about a dozen Criminals escaping and dozens of Cop deaths, which would not happen if Cops really had a vastly superior advantage), not to mention others who emphasize Cop Advantages instead of trying to search for more Criminal Advantages (they could choose to plan their escape routes and make up backup plans for in case something goes wrong so the Cops won't catch them, but instead they run headlong into the cops chasing them and get obliterated as a result, then moan about it), so I call them moaners for a good reason.
I understand that everyone has their own beliefs, so I think twice before every post I make regarding a sensitive subject.
If you continue to throw such bullshit at me in a close-minded manner, it would be your problem, not mine.
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Speaking of experiences, it is unfortunate that most players (Obviously there would be exceptions, and I'm not giving a statistical number as it would not be accurate) on the server have only experienced the theme of cops and criminals. To make matters worse, these close minded players will spread only this influence on the new players resulting in a server consisting only of players who think about criminal or cop role play. As such, these people have only ever role played doing a crime or role played doing something such as chasing or interrogating a criminal. In doing so, the players want to perfect the scenes that they ever face and never experience problems - problems which may include criminals escaping in a bike, criminals get killed "unfairly", cops get too much script support etc. As a result, players "moan" to developers to change the environment of the server to suit these needs.
Unfortunately, players are unaware that nothing is perfect in this world, and that such demands can never be met. This is clearly reflected on the increasing moaning from players after developers adjusted the server environment to solve the minor problems. An example of this was when the bikes and bicycles were removed from the server to suit the cop's "needs", criminals began to moan about disadvantages. All this also tells us that if we change a feature to stop one group from moaning, another group will start complaining. If this feature changes once again, then another group will start moaning again. As a result, we now get a moaning cycle, one which never has an end.
How do we solve this? Well, first of all, players should be aware of the damage that they are causing when they moan about a problem. They need to be aware that by doing so, they only make the developers fix their problems and to cancel their work on new solutions. If this isn't possible (which it doesn't seem to be now), then the developers will have to cope with all the complaining caused by the players.
As such, I would also like to commend David for his awareness of the true problem in the server and has developed solutions that will introduce much more interesting themes for the players to enjoy than just the boring cops V criminals. The fire missions are a stepping stone to widen the scope of role playing within the community.
:ps: Sorry to say but JDC, Pandalink and all other people who are arguing about the cops criminals thingy, stop it. I don't care who started the argument. It needs to end now before it makes others think that moaning is the correct thing to do.
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Not able to place myself in the shoes of others?
I'm sorry but I laughed out loud at that statement of yours. I have also experienced life as a Criminal, since I did crimes on my UC Account in order to study them (it was in one of those incidents as well where I learned that hitting a moving car in a pursuit with melee attacks would do a better job than shooting it from on top, since I shook off 2 Freecops and 1 Cadet from the roof of my car, all of who failed to stop me by shooting with their guns, only to have my car blown up by a lone Freecop who used melee attacks), so you can stop your "JDC, you're a one-sided biased moaner" bullshit now.
Wow you played a few hours as a criminal. Now you've really put me in my place JDC. :rofl: Fact of the matter is that you don't have a clue what's on the minds of the criminals. You don't listen to them and call every single one of them a moaner.
We have people going around pointing at and ranting about how utterly unfair and hard the system is for Criminals, when it in fact is a lot easier for them as opposed to the RS3 scripts
Again...not a clue what's going on. Everybody agrees with you here.
(every day, we have about a dozen Criminals escaping and dozens of Cop deaths, which would not happen if Cops really had a vastly superior advantage)
The cops wont ever be Robocops so get over it.
not to mention others who emphasize Cop Advantages instead of trying to search for more Criminal Advantages (they could choose to plan their escape routes and make up backup plans for in case something goes wrong so the Cops won't catch them, but instead they run headlong into the cops chasing them and get obliterated as a result, then moan about it), so I call them moaners for a good reason.
This doesn't make sense at all does it?! Make a few sentences with good grammar, please.
I understand that everyone has their own beliefs, so I think twice before every post I make regarding a sensitive subject.
Perhaps you shouldn't think at all and never post on the forums again.
If you continue to throw such bullshit at me in a close-minded manner, it would be your problem, not mine.
You don't have to reply to my comments...So you never answered my question: Do you moan to the leaders about the new changes?
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Wow you played a few hours as a criminal. Now you've really put me in my place JDC. :rofl: Fact of the matter is that you don't have a clue what's on the minds of the criminals. You don't listen to them and call every single one of them a moaner.
Never have I said that every single Criminal is a moaner.
This doesn't make sense at all does it?! Make a few sentences with good grammar, please.
"They emphasize Cop Advantages instead of seeking Criminal Advantages, for example, they can plan out their crimes to the last detail and many many escape routes and backup plans, but instead most of them run headlong into Cops chasing them, thus getting obliterated. The worst part is they moan about it."
Perhaps you shouldn't think at all and never post on the forums again.
I will continue posting regardless of who likes it or not. At least I base my posts on evidence and actual events as opposed to certain people in the Politics and Religion board.
You don't have to reply to my comments...So you never answered my question: Do you moan to the leaders about the new changes?
I don't. I don't stoop to levels that low.
If the Developers made these changes, I know that they were done to benefit the Server and the Community.
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From my years as one of the most known mobsters from both MTA:VC and SA:MP, I have never seen any issues with cops/ criminals.
Infact, I've noticed that criminals kill more cops in a firefight than cops killing criminals. This is why we have "Cops can return after death", otherwise EVERY single cop is dead and cannot go after criminals. If you add "Criminals return after death", then Argonath RPG has just turned into a full blown "Cops N Robbers" server.
The reason why they added weapons equip for FBI and SWAT because they do not have a massive underground weapons black market that criminals strive on.
One thing that's pissing me off on the criminal side is that when they complain about cops having advantage over criminals. In my view criminals has the upper hand in a firefight against cops, but it is evened out with the cops' ability to return. Just be glad because this situation could've been worse.
Post Merge: March 29, 2010, 03:19:04 pm
And one thing that's also pissing me off is that several criminals doesn't see how much the police side has to endure from the constant barrage of complaints from the criminals, which explains the anger displayed by CBFasi recently.
"Restrictions on this, that, demand to ask for surrender before shooting, don't abuse weapons equip, don't use the goddamn Hunters/ Hydras!!1one! etc", and god knows how many rules that overlapped each other that created confusion for everyone, whereas criminals has far less restrictions. For the love of god, stop whining how much ammo for a 9mm you lost. It's your fault that you didn't surrender on time, it's your fault that you committed these crimes in the first place. Once you go criminal, you have to risk EVERYTHING you have put yourself into: Drugs, weapons, money. Committing crimes that you are fully aware of the risks behind it means you have big cojones.
I nearly fell into this mess between cops and criminals argument before my transfer of administration rights, and now I've seen what both sides has to deal with every single day. Don't criticize me for not showing my criminal self lately because I've been busy, along with several other administrators in preventing both sides' shit from hitting the fan.
Now this is the reason behind the whole goddamn mess about freecops because MANY people expects the new players to learn the complex rules in order to play as a cop effectively, criticizing them for not doing it right and screaming abuse instead of helping them get through.
You don't know how lucky you criminals are. Please don't get offended by my statement, as like all others, I am just stating my opinions.
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From my years as one of the most known mobsters from both MTA:VC and SA:MP, I have never seen any issues with cops/ criminals.
Infact, I've noticed that criminals kill more cops in a firefight than cops killing criminals. This is why we have "Cops can return after death", otherwise EVERY single cop is dead and cannot go after criminals. If you add "Criminals return after death", then Argonath RPG has just turned into a full blown "Cops N Robbers" server.
The reason why they added weapons equip for FBI and SWAT because they do not have a massive underground weapons black market that criminals strive on.
One thing that's pissing me off on the criminal side is that when they complain about cops having advantage over criminals. In my view criminals has the upper hand in a firefight against cops, but it is evened out with the cops' ability to return. Just be glad because this situation could've been worse.
Post Merge: March 29, 2010, 03:19:04 pm
And one thing that's also pissing me off is that several criminals doesn't see how much the police side has to endure from the constant barrage of complaints from the criminals, which explains the anger displayed by CBFasi recently.
"Restrictions on this, that, demand to ask for surrender before shooting, don't abuse weapons equip, don't use the goddamn Hunters/ Hydras!!1one! etc", and god knows how many rules that overlapped each other that created confusion for everyone, whereas criminals has far less restrictions. For the love of god, stop whining how much ammo for a 9mm you lost. It's your fault that you didn't surrender on time, it's your fault that you committed these crimes in the first place. Once you go criminal, you have to risk EVERYTHING you have put yourself into: Drugs, weapons, money. Committing crimes that you are fully aware of the risks behind it means you have big cojones.
I nearly fell into this mess between cops and criminals argument before my transfer of administration rights, and now I've seen what both sides has to deal with every single day. Don't criticize me for not showing my criminal self lately because I've been busy, along with several other administrators in preventing both sides' shit from hitting the fan.
Now this is the reason behind the whole goddamn mess about freecops because MANY people expects the new players to learn the complex rules in order to play as a cop effectively, criticizing them for not doing it right and screaming abuse instead of helping them get through.
You don't know how lucky you criminals are. Please don't get offended by my statement, as like all others, I am just stating my opinions.
There are rules to keep order. Cops have rules so they don't abuse their powers. It's the responsibility of the SAPD to make sure this kind of abuse repeat itself when it occurs. Criminals have a rule too: /gu when you think you are abused. There are a lot of criminals who don't /gu then and they complain. Well then it's moaning. Also they usually have a bigger mouth when they do not /gu. But as soon as they /gu, you don't think that's moaning, right?
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All I have to say about firefights (which is not something I usually make a point of doing) is that just because criminals are better than cops, does not mean they should be handicapped.
Anyway, I have no quarrels with the return rule or anything combat related (aside from hydra usage against ground criminals).
I can see that some criminals scripts are "in the pipeline" as it were, and I for one praise any developer who actually does this for us. Hooray! :D