Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: BlackEagle on April 12, 2010, 03:24:15 pm
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Before starting, i want to say that i'm not complaining/moaning or shit, just asking.
Well the situation is that, i got killed by 6 GB(Ganton Bellas) members yesterday, i was alone. It was around 20:00, i waited until 1 today, to not do the thing called "revenge kill". around 14:00, today, i prepared my team and attacked to Ganton Ballas, killed them all (except Travis).
But few minutes after situation, Seskom started to question me about what happened. I told him everything that happened and suddenly got tempbanned by [Rstar]IcyAero for "revengekilling".
So, someone tell me, what the actual f**k?
Another screen from another attack of GB, yesterday..
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4933/samp003kw.png)
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/170/samp019lw.png)
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Before starting, i want to say that i'm not complaining/moaning or shit, just asking.
Well the situation is that, i got killed by 6 GB(Ganton Bellas) members yesterday, i was alone. It was around 20:00, i waited until 1 today, to not do the thing called "revenge kill". around 14:00, today, i prepared my team and attacked to Ganton Ballas, killed them all (except Travis).
But few minutes after situation, Seskom started to question me about what happened. I told him everything that happened and suddenly got tempbanned by [Rstar]IcyAero for "revengekilling".
So, someone tell me, what the actual f**k?
Another screen from another attack of GB, yesterday..
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4933/samp003kw.png)
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/170/samp019lw.png)
Well the situation is that, i got killed by 6 GB(Ganton Bellas) members yesterday, i was alone. It was around 20:00, i waited until 1 today, to not do the thing called "revenge kill". around 14:00, today, i prepared my team and attacked to Ganton Ballas, killed them all (except Travis).
But few minutes after situation, Seskom started to question me about what happened. I told him everything that happened and suddenly got tempbanned by [Rstar]IcyAero for "revengekilling".
Well the situation is that, i got killed by 6 GB(Ganton Bellas) members yesterday, i was alone. It was around 20:00, i waited until 1 today, to not do the thing called "revenge kill". around 14:00, today, i prepared my team and attacked to Ganton Ballas, killed them all (except Travis).
Well the situation is that, i got killed by 6 GB(Ganton Bellas)
(Ganton Bellas)
(Ganton Bellas)
Bellas
This isn't Twilight...
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From that what you said here, you attacked GB because they killed you before, and you killed them just because you were killed by them. This is clear revenge and revenge is forbidden here.
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(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1728/lance2.png)
You said your reason was revenge killing, heres what the rules say : NO REVENGE KILLING ; NO ATTACKING WITHOUT A PROPER REASON.
Edit: Link to rules in ENGLISH : http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4:english&catid=2:rules&Itemid=9 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4:english&catid=2:rules&Itemid=9)
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Estonian helps estonian, no matter what. Let's not mension how Travis was revengekilling sometime ago.
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So basicly, if i get "killed" (not a damn character kill, falling down due to low HP), i may NEVER attack back to the killer?
If so, all the players in the server should be banned.
Estonian helps estonian, no matter what. Let's not mension how Travis was revengekilling sometime ago.
IRL classmates.
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So basicly, if i get "killed" (not a damn character kill, falling down due to low HP), i may NEVER attack back to the killer?
If so, all the players in the server should be banned.
IRL classmates.
Lance ask ANY other admin about it, they can coniform you did wRONg by revengekilling and PM is proof for it, you cant attack back the killer if the reason is revenge, find an RP reason, and for your information you can ask gandalf about my action on everyone I have warned my IRL friends before for breaking rules, none cares this is a game...
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Still waiting the definition of Revengekilling from any manager or leader.
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BlackEagle, have to ask exactly, how did you put together your team today. What reason you gave to them.
Also people, the definiton of revenge killing ain't that simple. As we do roleplay criminal gangs here there are revenge killings (as part of roleplay) involved. For example SA. Some people killed CJ's mom, so he wen't and killed some of their men.
And in no way can this be considered a revenge killing, at worst deathmatching. revenge killing as it was taught for me (when I was still admin) is when a person goes straight back to the person who killed him and tries to kill him, not wait for a totally new day.
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Some of the estonians (I.e seskom, travis, minch, jerome_froyan) are known of their bossy attitude.
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Is it revenge killing also, if you get low HP but do not die, but then later kill him?
If so, then I am damn lucky for not beeing banned, I have had this many times.
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go on police duty you can kill the nigga who killed u the other day!
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So basicly, if i get "killed" (not a damn character kill, falling down due to low HP), i may NEVER attack back to the killer?
If so, all the players in the server should be banned.
IRL classmates.
You can kill thoose guys later if you have PROPER reason to kill them. Now, you stated that YOUR REASON why you KILLED them was BECAUSE THEY KILLED YOU. Maybe it's explained now :)? You must have valid reason to kill, otherwise you will be punished
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BlackEagle, have to ask exactly, how did you put together your team today. What reason you gave to them.
Travis and his members dissed my Gang, insulted IC and shot me down, which is a damn good RP reason.
revenge killing as it was taught for me (when I was still admin) is when a person goes straight back to the person who killed him and tries to kill him, not wait for a totally new day.
THAT is what i'm talking about, either this rule is changed or theres something wrong with Seskom.
Post Merge: April 12, 2010, 05:49:35 pm
You can kill thoose guys later if you have PROPER reason to kill them. Now, you stated that YOUR REASON why you KILLED them was BECAUSE THEY KILLED YOU. Maybe it's explained now :)? You must have valid reason to kill, otherwise you will be punished
Do i look like a retard who says "OMG U KILL ME I KILL YA OMG".
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As your question was answered before, I do not understand why do you still wait for the answer.
Well the situation is that, i got killed by 6 GB(Ganton Bellas) members yesterday, i was alone. It was around 20:00, i waited until 1 today,
You, by yourself, say that you did not had proper reason to kill them. Reason to kill should not be related to the old-past and it should not be related to your death.
By the way, you stated that you do not want to moan or complain, but it seems that you are starting to do so ;)
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It isnt Revenge-Killing after so long time? :trust:
is it? :)
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As your question was answered before, I do not understand why do you still wait for the answer.
I still believe this rule is not changed, and asking confirmation from higher ranked admins.
Revenge killing as it was taught for me (when I was still admin) is when a person goes straight back to the person who killed him and tries to kill him, not wait for a totally new day.
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I still believe this rule is not changed, and asking confirmation from higher ranked admins.
Jubin got a point, After what i know it isnt Revenge Killing After So Long Times ( In this case 24 Hours )
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It is generally accepted that 1 hour is acceptable to return, unless the opposing gang states less is acceptable or more is required. 3 hours is probably the largest anyone will go for.
A day is of course a total reset, without question or prior agreement.
Sorry to say it, but whichever admin punished here has no idea about this kind of thing and should not have acted without first understanding the situation, which they clearly did not.
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Well, seeing as this was gang RP, he was killed, and he rallied up his crew to take action for what happened previously. I don't see a problem with this, and besides, he waited till the next day to do so. It's not like he reacted straight after he died, is it?
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Well, seeing as this was gang RP, he was killed, and he rallied up his crew to take action for what happened previously. I don't see a problem with this, and besides, he waited till the next day to do so. It's not like he reacted straight after he died, is it?
Exactly :)
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Dosent matter howlong he waited his reason for doing this was to revengekill cause they killed him yesterday as you can see from this screenie
(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1728/lance2.png)
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Dosent matter howlong he waited his reason for doing this was to revengekill cause they killed him yesterday as you can see from this screenie
Key word is bolded.
Seskom, I thought you understood criminal groups and warfare. I'm surprised.
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It is generally accepted that 1 hour is acceptable to return, unless the opposing gang states less is acceptable or more is required. 3 hours is probably the largest anyone will go for.
A day is of course a total reset, without question or prior agreement.
Sorry to say it, but whichever admin punished here has no idea about this kind of thing and should not have acted without first understanding the situation, which they clearly did not.
This only apply if all group members are dead. For example, if we get in a war, killing 5 out of 7 Araatus, does 2 who are alive, are "delaying" the time of return, so it starts counting from the moment they are dead, or from the moment 2 of them kills all other in this example Gvardia's. ( lol right i know)
That was the rule used for validations we used, and it worked nice, untill some people started abusing it attacking one member online with 10 etc.
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You see Seskom, i'm not the only person who thinks so.
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I Wouldnt Call It Revenge Killing.
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You see Seskom, i'm not the only person who thinks so.
Lance I asked you for the reason you told the reason is REVENGE KILLING. do the rules state when the revenge killing ends ? NO so you need to find valid RP reason to attack for example provoking but reason such as REVENGE CAUSE THEY KILLED ME EARLIER dosent count!
edit: if you think im wrong write complaint to [email protected] yes .COM not .EU
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so you need to find valid RP reason to attack for example provoking
As I understood this
Travis and his members dissed my Gang, insulted IC and shot me down, which is a damn good RP reason.
to start "revengekilling" doesn't count.
Wait BlackEagle, was it the reason you gave for your team, or was it what happened before today's shootout? Or both?
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Seskom, you're in a street gang for christ sake.
It was a whole day between the attack, and he said "revenge", as they're going to do a attack towards them, which is completely right between two street gangs, so I have no clue what you're talking about, I honestly don't.
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There was nothing wrong with what i did, and if i am going to get banned for that, ban me now. As this may happen everyday between the gangs. And shame on you Seskom, you ran a damn street gang for months.
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Is it revenge killing also, if you get low HP but do not die, but then later kill him?
If so, then I am damn lucky for not beeing banned, I have had this many times.
You have just confirmed that you were rulebraking. Congratz.
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So, let's say one gang constantly attacked another through RP situations due to a - RP, of course - hatred between the two gangs, the other gang couldn't retaliate due to it being "Revenge Killing"? That's just pathetic.
Seriously, they're role-playing gang members... what else do you expect?
Post Merge: April 12, 2010, 08:17:35 pm
You have just confirmed that you were rulebraking. Congratz.
He may be of been rule-breaking, yes, but in was not in his knowledge that it was against the rules to do so.
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Also, Seskom, you claim he says "It was a revenge"
I don't see revengeKILLING here. No rules violation, hmkay?
Post Merge: April 12, 2010, 08:21:15 pm
He may be of been rule-breaking, yes, but in was not in his knowledge that it was against the rules to do so.
/me joke ok?
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Dosent matter howlong he waited his reason for doing this was to revengekill cause they killed him yesterday as you can see from this screenie
Kind sir, you are an idiot.
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Post Merge: April 12, 2010, 08:21:15 pm
/me joke ok?
oic. :redface:
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My definition of "revenge-killing" is when you attack the person who killed you within an hour with the reason, "he killed me before".
Gangs/mafias does have there guidelines or rules (how you want to see it as) on how long time you need to wait before you may do an attack back with a properly reason which is not "they killed us before". Such a reason is an Death Matchers reason and is not allowed here.
To make an summary of this case, it's clearly Death Matching here cos you use the reason "they killed me last night" and you and your group attacked them..
You may never attack someone who killed you to get an revenge, but an gang member of yours may do an revenge attack on them cos they "killed" you but you may not partake in such a attack as mentioned.
When are you allowed to attack them again? You may attack them when you have an other properly reason to do so and when you have an validation on the other gang/mafia or an specific period of time have past which both sides have agreed on..
So yes, you where death matching in this case referring to your statement of reason of the attack...
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My definition of "revenge-killing" is when you attack the person who killed you within an hour with the reason, "he killed me before".
Gangs/mafias does have there guidelines or rules (how you want to see it as) on how long time you need to wait before you may do an attack back with a properly reason which is not "they killed us before". Such a reason is an Death Matchers reason and is not allowed here.
To make an summary of this case, it's clearly Death Matching here cos you use the reason "they killed me last night" and you and your group attacked them..
You may never attack someone who killed you to get an revenge, but an gang member of yours may do an revenge attack on them cos they "killed" you but you may not partake in such a attack as mentioned.
When are you allowed to attack them again? You may attack them when you have an other properly reason to do so and when you have an validation on the other gang/mafia or an specific period of time have past which both sides have agreed on..
So yes, you where death matching in this case referring to your statement of reason of the attack...
Good Definition of Revenge-Killing :wow:
But wasnt it a little hard Punishment?
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I also from time to time say that, as long both sides agrees of the RP attacks it' fine. but as soon one side is reporting that the other is death matching then it's not allowed.
BUT, since that also can be abused and attempt to get admin revenge on your behalf this should be taken into serious consideration cos if you agree and then report them for DM you may be punished yourself for misleading us to "revenge" on your behalf...
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From what ive seen.. this is no Revenge Killing, Ganton Ballas attacked him yesterday, now today he hits back... Two different situations.
But seriously, weve got a huge problem In Argonath Gang War System.
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Good Definition of Revenge-Killing :wow:
But wasnt it a little hard Punishment?
Since i wasn't there i cannot say it was to hard or to weak punishment and/or if there was any reports reported to the admins regarding the incident..
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Since i wasn't there i cannot say it was to hard or to weak punishment and/or if there was any reports reported to the admins regarding the incident..
Okay o;
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From what ive seen.. this is no Revenge Killing, Ganton Ballas attacked him yesterday, now today he hits back... Two different situations.
But seriously, weve got a huge problem In Argonath Gang War System.
With the reason they had it's an Death Matching reason which is not allowed and strictly forbidden since the reason was specific to revenge his death yesterday.
If the reason would have been that an Ganton ballas would have attacked and torture one of his members and then revenge that, or that the Ganton Ballas would have trespassed there territory and broken an agreement between the gangs, then it would have been an allowed attack..
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Revenge killing:
One player killing or attacking another player (self of through requesting others to do so) because of his previous actions in game.
There is no time limit on revenge killing.
Gang war:
A conflict between two groups for a RP reason and having a clear objective that is reached when the gang war ends. If a gang war has as reason a previous loss or killing conflict btween the same gangs there has to be proof of an attempt to avoid the gang war from continuing.
As in this case you formed a group in order to revenge your killing, regardless of the time passed, it can be considered revenge killing.
Gang wars are not an excuse for constant shootouts between two groups with or without time delay.
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Thanks.
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It is remarkable though that you kept the grudge for so long. I can't usually even remember the people's names from previous day who has killed me, even more holding a grudge over them.
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go on police duty you can kill the nigga who killed u the other day!
This is the answer everyone. Requesting topic lock
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This is the answer everyone. Requesting topic lock
No it is not. Going on police duty to revenge kill is still revenge killing.
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I got a feeling this thread is based on moan :roll:
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Revenge killing:
One player killing or attacking another player (self of through requesting others to do so) because of his previous actions in game.
There is no time limit on revenge killing.
Ganton Ballas came to our turf, and shouted around "WE OWN IT, Ganton Ballas Owns this Turf!" when none of us was there. One of my hoodrats has just informed me about this via MSN, now please, for gods sake, don't tell me thats revenge killing too... Is that?
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Ganton Ballas came to our turf, and shouted around "WE OWN IT, Ganton Ballas Owns this Turf!" when none of us was there. One of my hoodrats has just informed me about this via MSN, now please, for gods sake, don't tell me thats revenge killing too... Is that?
You got what you were after Lance, coniform from main admin that Revengekill has no limit and this wasnt cause they were on your turf that was cause you told Me theres screen in beginning of topic that you told the reason was Revenge kill.
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Is it revenge killing also, if you get low HP but do not die, but then later kill him?
If so, then I am damn lucky for not beeing banned, I have had this many times.
No, because you never actually died in that roleplay. You can retaliate due to previous roleplay if you survive. Its quite actual. I mean many people would go after their killer if they(victim) were put in the hospital in critical condition and the case was dismissed.
If you died on the other hand. You cannot return to that roleplay because you are...well dead. Then that would be Revenge killing, returning to roleplay situation after death.
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This only apply if all group members are dead. For example, if we get in a war, killing 5 out of 7 Araatus,
Clearly hypothetical then : D.
<.<
or from the moment 2 of them kills all other in this example Gvardia's. ( lol right i know)
What you mean like every time? <.< >.>
:D
But seriously, weve got a huge problem In Argonath Gang War System.
What, that its been effectively inactive since December 2009?
Whilst the validations system is effectively inactive, since its activity is directly and clearly linked to my own ability and/or willingness to work it, self-policing should still be enforced.
In general, it is accepted that several hours later, and certainly the next day or later, all deaths are reset and revenge killing just doesn't happen.
Besides, revenge kill cannot really be applied to groups. If a single person kills another, then the person respawns that play session and directly goes back with new guns, then that is revenge killing. A groupmember respawning is returning after death.
An entire day passed. It sounds to me like either the story you told is not complete, or the group you were fighting are crybabies and did not like losing (as they evidently were) and decided to use admins to get what they wanted (mind you, it does work quite well as shown by this very situation).
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Clearly hypothetical then : D.
<.<
Yea, we mostly finish all of you. ;)
What you mean like every time? <.< >.>
:D
You do know that except that time, like 365 days ago, when you storm our HQ before validations, (when you all got demoted for it :( ), you never won a war against us?
No it is not. Going on police duty to revenge kill is still revenge killing.
I am sorry for saying this, but can you please inform, like 98 percent of admins, that this is revenge killing. Cause not a single one ( and trust me i asked every single one), didn't classified it as revenge killing, together with Vince who likes forcing and pointing it so much, when ever I suggest him that some guy went on /duty, just so he can hunt the people who killed him, 5 min before.
About the subject-In my book, revenge killing=attacking someone who killed you in the last 24-48 hours.
Your gang members or mobsters goes after the guy that kills you= Not revenge killing, but Vendetta. And although they are synonyms they got totally different meaning on Argonath/Internet etc.
I mean common, even street hooligan go to claim vendetta, not to mention Gangs, and without a will to even talk about Mafia's and other Higher criminal groups.
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If someone kills you and you return, alone, the next day to kill the very man that killed you "because he killed me" then sure, thats revenge killing. If you go with your group to attack another group who killed you then thats different, thats fine. You're not singling out a person and going to kill him for revenge, you're engaging in a gang fight.
you never won a war against us?
Well from our side you never won a war against us.
Lets just agree to disagree :3.
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Well from our side you never won a war against us.
Lets just agree to disagree :3.
That's why you cancel validations. ;) Cause you weren't constantly slaughtered, right ? :lol:
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That's why you cancel validations. ;) Cause you weren't constantly slaughtered, right ? :lol:
No we do it "cuzurnab". :B
Also we ran out of money, which is why we have absolutely no money now.
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No we do it "cuzurnab". :B
Also we ran out of money, which is why we have absolutely no money now.
The "cuzurnab" attitude made you ran out of money, not wars, Panda. ;)
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No, being a criminal in general ran us out of money, the wars just quickened the process.
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I see what admins mean... You cannot attack them because they killed you, as your bringing the same character into the RP. So you would have to provoke a war to be able to attack.
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No, because you never actually died in that roleplay. You can retaliate due to previous roleplay if you survive. Its quite actual. I mean many people would go after their killer if they(victim) were put in the hospital in critical condition and the case was dismissed.
If you died on the other hand. You cannot return to that roleplay because you are...well dead. Then that would be Revenge killing, returning to roleplay situation after death.
Revenge killing is not limited to dying.
The origin of the prohibition to revenge kill lies in the basic rspect players should have for each other. While in a large community it is impossible that you like eeryone, basicly two opposing gangs could (and might) be friends.
A constant shootout and killing between them would destroy respect and friendship and replace it with hate and 'owning'.
Ideally two groups can have a mass conflict over a turf today, and tomorrow work together withour any bad feelings toward each other.
People forget that its a game, and nothing should be taken seriously.
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Revenge killing is not limited to dying.
The origin of the prohibition to revenge kill lies in the basic rspect players should have for each other. While in a large community it is impossible that you like eeryone, basicly two opposing gangs could (and might) be friends.
A constant shootout and killing between them would destroy respect and friendship and replace it with hate and 'owning'.
Ideally two groups can have a mass conflict over a turf today, and tomorrow work together withour any bad feelings toward each other.
People forget that its a game, and nothing should be taken seriously.
Actually, i had a big smile on my face during both situations, both while dying and killing, enjoying the game, i'm sure they enjoyed too, but when i got tempbanned "-_-".. :lol:
Whatever, i think i can solve it with Travis, just wanted to get something clear, moderators lock the topic please.
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Revenge killing is not limited to dying.
The origin of the prohibition to revenge kill lies in the basic rspect players should have for each other. While in a large community it is impossible that you like eeryone, basicly two opposing gangs could (and might) be friends.
A constant shootout and killing between them would destroy respect and friendship and replace it with hate and 'owning'.
Ideally two groups can have a mass conflict over a turf today, and tomorrow work together withour any bad feelings toward each other.
People forget that its a game, and nothing should be taken seriously.
If i make this short, i guess it means if you want to have an enemy ingame or some sort of rival. make sure the rival/enemy thing is healthy and for the sake of RP. Don't make rival/enemy because you got flamed by them OOC or you hate that guy or some sort of hatred and stuff.. -.-
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Revenge killing is when you go after the guy that killed you within 30 min. 1 day resets errythang
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Revenge killing is when you go after the guy that killed you within 30 min. 1 day resets errythang
No it does not, and if you kill someone or set hitman contract without proper reason and your reason willbe that you were killed by him yesterday, you will be punished for revenge :)
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You ever wonder why Araatus allied with Stracci? Because we went to our friends Corleone and decided to have a little fun conflict for awhile. Weeks and months later, we were at each other's throats and had actual hate for the players there.
Nonetheless, if you don't ally with a group you're generally against it, so you always end up against (combatively or not) the group you actually hate, in my case Stracci because I violently hate nitrox.
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You ever wonder why Araatus allied with Stracci? Because we went to our friends Corleone and decided to have a little fun conflict for awhile. Weeks and months later, we were at each other's throats and had actual hate for the players there.
Nonetheless, if you don't ally with a group you're generally against it, so you always end up against (combatively or not) the group you actually hate, in my case Stracci because I violently hate nitrox.
See? We do share something in comon.
uhaitmisir? :(
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Revenge killing is not limited to dying.
The origin of the prohibition to revenge kill lies in the basic rspect players should have for each other. While in a large community it is impossible that you like eeryone, basicly two opposing gangs could (and might) be friends.
A constant shootout and killing between them would destroy respect and friendship and replace it with hate and 'owning'.
Ideally two groups can have a mass conflict over a turf today, and tomorrow work together withour any bad feelings toward each other.
People forget that its a game, and nothing should be taken seriously.
Yea, i see what your saying. I also hate when people say 'owned' or 'pwned' in a rpg. After shootouts, total disrespect. :neutral:
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Ganton Ballas are revenge killing too. Today when i passed by grove they started shooting my car!? Pure DM gang. :mad:
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Revenge killing is when a player goes to kill another player because of personal hatred. The player who revenge kills literally has the same attitude as someone who wanted to kill someone in real life.
As Gandalf has already stated, it was prohibited because it is one of the factors that causes disrespect between players.
Think carefully about what your purpose of killing those GB. Did you attack them because you wanted to create an interesting RP with them, or did you just attack them just for the sake of personal revenge? If it's the latter, then you indeed revenge killed.
:ps: Ganton Bellas... :lol: :lol:
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Topic locked, requested by the creator of the topic.