Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Cane on February 06, 2011, 05:52:59 am
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I'm sorry, but this is wrong. I find it disgusting how people with the ability to use /copban is threatening others with it. Earlier this evening, I was involved in a roleplay situation where two corrupt police officers and I were in a combat situation, when a certain individual with the /copban powers showed up, and said, "Stop shooting each other if you don't want to lose your right to go on duty" (Not an exact quote). When he was told about the full situation, he insisted that we were breaking the rules, and also said, "Shooting each other on duty is enough to get you copbanned" (Again, not an exact quote).
So is this what Argonath has come to? Are we restricted on roleplaying corrupted police officers now? Both sides agreed to the situation, and yet, we're threatened to be banished from performing a great roleplay situation.
This has to stop.
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Corruption = Accepting Bribes, Helping Criminals, Etcetera..
Rule breaking (Which is Ban-Cop Able) = Miss-using Your weapons in other police officers / Civilians. If you want to shoot yourselves and have fun killing yourselves, feel free to visit www.paruni.com (http://www.paruni.com)
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Who are you to give the "correct" definition of corruption? Does being an FBI agent come with a dictionary? You can't tell me what I can or cannot do in terms of roleplay.
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Who are you to give the "correct" definition of corruption? Does being an FBI agent come with a dictionary?
Let's see, define it.
You can't tell me what I can or cannot do in terms of roleplay.
Do whatever you want in terms of roleplay.... I am not telling you not to do anything, however there will be punishments for what you do, if the things you have done were Against the regulations and Rules.
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What has to stop? Surely a cop who acts foolish like you 3 would get banned from their duties. The "/copban powers" guys were merely just roleplaying as people who were trying to deal with the internal affair by giving the necessary punishment. So if they weren't allowed to /copban cops who go corrupted like that, then what can they do? Let you slip by and do as much chaos as possible? Just because something didn't happen the way how you wanted, does not mean it is "non-roleplay".
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I do not have my own definition, however I add to the official definition.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corrupt (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corrupt)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corruption (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corruption)
"guilty of dishonest practices, as bribery; lacking integrity; crooked" (see the first link (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corrupt))
Which, in my eyes, includes - BUT NOT LIMITED TO:
Accepting Bribes, Helping Criminals
as well as attempt to murder, steal, and kidnap civilians and/or other members of the police.
All done WITH the proper use of roleplay, having both sides agree to what is going on, which APPLIES to my situation earlier this evening.
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What has to stop? Surely a cop who acts foolish like you 3 would get banned from their duties. The "/copban powers" guys were merely just roleplaying as people who were trying to deal with the internal affair by giving the necessary punishment. So if they weren't allowed to /copban cops who go corrupted like that, then what can they do? Let you slip by and do as much chaos as possible? Just because something didn't happen the way how you wanted, does not mean it is "non-roleplay".
/copban is, as far as I'm concerned, used for command abuses ONLY. If used to restrict roleplay, it is against the rules.
I thought you knew better, considering that you hold the rank of an administrator.
OH, and another thing - I was the GOOD COP in this, not the bad one. Stop making assumptions.
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/copban is, as far as I'm concerned, used for command abuses ONLY. If used to restrict roleplay, it is against the rules.
I thought you knew better, considering that you hold the rank of an administrator.
OH, and another thing - I was the GOOD COP in this, not the bad one. Stop making assumptions.
it is abuse of your /duty weapons to use them to shoot other officers , EVEN if it is a so called "Rp situation."
We may not be a RLRP server, but use some logic people. You are not given the ability to go on /duty so you can "OMFGWERPKILLCOPSCAUSEWECORRUTCOPS."
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Don't shoot other cops, problem fixed. Want to shoot each other, go to Paruni.
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I would certainly be most able to tell the difference between an individual who roleplays a corrupt, malevolent police officer who terrorizes the civilians and fellow officers through roleplay, and people who just abuse their badge in order to attain undesirable power under the guise of "being corrupt".
It's the second class I see fit for copbans.
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Oh, you. :)
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/copban is, as far as I'm concerned, used for command abuses ONLY. If used to restrict roleplay, it is against the rules.
I thought you knew better, considering that you hold the rank of an administrator.
OH, and another thing - I was the GOOD COP in this, not the bad one. Stop making assumptions.
Then Explain this :
As cop you should follow the procedures and actions of real life law officers.
That means that if you choose to play a corrupt or criminal cop, you can be suspended from service (copbanneD). This is valid for all.
And here, I thought you knew better since you've been with Argo for such a long time.
Ok, my assumption on you being the bad cop was wrong. But does that make any difference since you're the one complaining?
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When I was new, I almost got cop banned because I told the high ranked he sucked at driving.
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When I was new, I almost got cop banned because I told the high ranked he sucked at driving.
When I was new I got copbanned for giving a ticket and 'just letting him go' to a person who broke down several lampposts, got dragged to DPD for several hours, Lt, Chief where there... They got mad, I was told to come or I will be cop ban, in end I was at DPD and got cop-ban because the LT wanted to look tough, just so happens LT was removed several week later, I did send email to admins and ask what the f**k why man, but no 1 reply. :neutral:
In my entire history, I've never seen once (although totally wrong cop-ban, and not nice to victimize newer players like in my true story above) another form of /copban being role-played, never once, except the time with Pancher where he ordered me to go in /duty room then he reduce my rank to security guard and say I cant go to GS9 because around 15 ballas turned up in LSPD and protested against me :cop:.
The majority of /copban I do not see role-played.
If they're not going to be role-played they should be kept with admins only.
Who are you to give the "correct" definition of corruption? Does being an FBI agent come with a dictionary? You can't tell me what I can or cannot do in terms of roleplay.
Learn some respect, you start a discussion then go onto criticize others for there response?.
Besides, although I do not see it actively roleplayed - as in "/me tears off his badge", Cop-Ban can also be used as "suspension form police force" in cop terms. (but they can also have their ass thrown into jail as well).
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When I was new, I almost got cop banned because I told the high ranked he sucked at driving.
Who was that high ranked? :rofl:
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it is abuse of your /duty weapons to use them to shoot other officers , EVEN if it is a so called "Rp situation."
I do not see how it is abuse.
We may not be a RLRP server, but use some logic people. You are not given the ability to go on /duty so you can "OMFGWERPKILLCOPSCAUSEWECORRUTCOPS."
I do not see how you get this from my original post.
Don't shoot other cops, problem fixed. Want to shoot each other, go to Paruni.
You clearly took no time to read my post.
And here, I thought you knew better since you've been with Argo for such a long time.
I apologize for my shitty attitude, I was quite frustrated with the situation at the time.
I was away from the community for the past two months, and I was not aware of this dumb rule. Sorry.
Learn some respect, you start a discussion then go onto criticize others for there response?
I'm sorry, but it was he who threatened me, and I took offense. However, I did mean what I said - his definition of corruption was absolute bullshit.
Besides, although I do not see it actively roleplayed - as in "/me tears off his badge", Cop-Ban can also be used as "suspension form police force" in cop terms.
Also stupid.
Why are we restricting possible roleplay situations with these commands? If /copban was used against the people who abuse commands, I would understand, but to use it against people who try to roleplay a corrupt? Pathetic.
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As far as I am concerned as a admin and long standing SAPD member, commands such as /copban should not be used to limit any roleplay. I had a long discussion with a SAPD sergeant who copbanned someone for RP corruption for a day (although to be fair the RP was not explained too well on behalf of the cop).
I would consider RP corruption as crimes committed by cops with RP reason. The RP reason can be because of a character personality, but in all situations those involved should be made aware with RP.
Cop abuse, would be use of cop commands to gain an unfair, non-RP advantage. Now as for cop weapons, an example of abusing weapons would be going on duty to help your gang shoot another gang, because you cannot afford ammunition. An example of command abuse would be threatening players with /su and killing for money.
Also an example of cop abuse, would be a cop doing a taxi driver job for instance (or any civilian job). And if anyone crashes his taxi, he then uses /su and shoots them. This is an unfair advantage over all other civilians as he gets money from /su, and weapons for a non RP related reason (simply being a cop for the power).
If it was a RP corrupt cop, then they should not be using /su. This causes ball ache for all involved, and is not very fair. As long as RP corruption is enjoyed by all parties then there is not a problem. As long as it does not conflict with server rules, as long as it does not ruin peoples RP and does not take advantage of new players, then it is no problem
For all purposes, /copban is not a RP function, it is not there to serve as a RP punishment - therefor it should be not used as a threat under any circumstances. If you do feel the need to copban for "RP corruption" as you cannot summon enough imagination to think of 1 RP solution.... then you have some things to think about.
Find RP solution for RP corruption. As you know, SAPD Sgts+ have copban rights. This is a test feature and can be easily removed if the community leaders feel it is being misused.
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Some months ago I said ONE thing over /r, and got copbanned for 30 days. What the fuck is this?
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You should've reported to ARPD Forums Mike.
Now, First.. it's /bancop (Useless info :P), Secondly I believe that because they got such a power, they should not use it on every little offense, for example.. I have seen people shooting each other for once, and getting copbanned for an hour for that. That's wrong use.. Yes, command may exist with time limit also, but if it is a rule-break, why punish the badge only? In fact, he wont care.. as he will be off duty, and perhaps can re-DM someone later on.. So in some situations, it should be better for cops, whether it is an ARPD Regulation = Copban, or a Rulebreak = Report.
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Some months ago I said ONE thing over /r, and got copbanned for 30 days. What the f**k is this?
We are aware of things like this, admins can sort it out.
Copban is regularly used to stop players from gaining access to free guns if we think they will constantly misuse them.
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I thought copbans are for people who kill surrendered suspects on purpose or abuse their /suspect rights and kill the /suspect right away.
But i got so dissapointed with the system when found out that people get copbanned for really minor offenses, or even for rulebrakes.
JDC has copbanned a guy for flaming once, which is actually kickable/warnable/bannable offense.
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copban should only be used by admins regardless of whichever rank you have in sapd because really no one in sapd has the right to cop ban anyone else, they can kick them from sapd but not ban them from being a cop.
admins deal with rulebreaking and cop bans should only ever be used for people who rulebreak, i.e. /su abuse, but not for any form of corruption regardless of whether it's kidnapping, murder (not same as dm), etc.
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I'm sorry, but this is wrong. I find it disgusting how people with the ability to use /copban is threatening others with it. Earlier this evening, I was involved in a roleplay situation where two corrupt police officers and I were in a combat situation, when a certain individual with the /copban powers showed up, and said, "Stop shooting each other if you don't want to lose your right to go on duty" (Not an exact quote). When he was told about the full situation, he insisted that we were breaking the rules, and also said, "Shooting each other on duty is enough to get you copbanned" (Again, not an exact quote).
So is this what Argonath has come to? Are we restricted on roleplaying corrupted police officers now? Both sides agreed to the situation, and yet, we're threatened to be banished from performing a great roleplay situation.
This has to stop.
What has to stop is being being inactive coming back to complain about what they say are "new rules", just to disturb things.
If you are a cop, there is not a single reason to open fire on a fellow cop.
As for making threats, I prefer actions.
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JDC has copbanned a guy for flaming once, which is actually kickable/warnable/bannable offense.
Cop banning certain individuals makes a more profound impact on them than simply warning / kicking them, as some people value the /duty command much more than others. While cop-banned, they can wander around on the server and perhaps experience what it feels like to have what they did to their victims, done to them. Such experiences can help them learn more.
Also, when I am on cop duty, I make it known in the police radio that the officers should not misuse their rights or face a very high possibility of a cop ban, whether it be from an hour up to a month.
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You'll get copbanned for complaining now...
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When I was new I got a copban for not shooting suspects, I'm %100 serious
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But...... but.... I thought you couldn't limit role play...
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But...... but.... I thought you couldn't limit role play...
Where have you read such thing? lol
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But...... but.... I thought you couldn't limit role play...
If they are good enough RPers then no one would cop ban them...
I think this kinda makes things clear:
As cop you should follow the procedures and actions of real life law officers.
That means that if you choose to play a corrupt or criminal cop, you can be suspended from service (copbanneD). This is valid for all.
I admit myself, from my earlier post you can see my ideals are different, but this makes it easier to enforce.
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I once got copbanned for doing a bomb threat on duty.
Luckily, another person with abilities to uncopban had a brain and uncopbanned me.
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He shouldn't be threatened with script punishment for doing something that is doing no one any harm. If the other cops involved are willing to carry out the situation in good faith then I cannot see the problem. People like the person threatening with copbans are the people who ruin Argonath for everyone else. These people should be banned from the community because they are destroying Argonath.
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He shouldn't be threatened with script punishment for doing something that is doing no one any harm. If the other cops involved are willing to carry out the situation in good faith then I cannot see the problem. People like the person threatening with copbans are the people who ruin Argonath for everyone else. These people should be banned from the community because they are destroying Argonath.
Then go ahead and ban me, and Gandalf for enforcing these rules :)
I was the one that threated them with a cop ban, by the way....
If you are a cop, there is not a single reason to open fire on a fellow cop.
As for making threats, I prefer actions.
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JDC has copbanned a guy for flaming once, which is actually kickable/warnable/bannable offense.
Alexinho_Behlic =AV=JDC_Kolta 30 days January 29 2011 14:36 Undesirable attitude in cop radio
Rock_Milano =AV=JDC_Kolta 30 days February 6 2011 11:44 DMing on cop duty
The above is what makes copban so lethal and just pisses people off..
If someone is roleplaying a corrupt cop and is doing a fine job, a copban i will not issue, however i will bring a team of cops and /su for corruption and arrest that officer.
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Alexinho_Behlic =AV=JDC_Kolta 30 days January 29 2011 14:36 Undesirable attitude in cop radio
Rock_Milano =AV=JDC_Kolta 30 days February 6 2011 11:44 DMing on cop duty
The above is what makes copban so lethal and just pisses people off..
If someone is roleplaying a corrupt cop and is doing a fine job, a copban i will not issue, however i will bring a team of cops and /su for corruption and arrest that officer.
Plenty enough of corrupts still on the roads.
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Alexinho_Behlic =AV=JDC_Kolta 30 days January 29 2011 14:36 Undesirable attitude in cop radio
Rock_Milano =AV=JDC_Kolta 30 days February 6 2011 11:44 DMing on cop duty
The above is what makes copban so lethal and just pisses people off..
If someone is roleplaying a corrupt cop and is doing a fine job, a copban i will not issue, however i will bring a team of cops and /su for corruption and arrest that officer.
Corruption deserves to die.
People are complaining about many different cops abusing and misusing their powers / rights, and that is one of the things I am determined to stop. I don't care how much dead I leave in my way, as the only ones who will suffer from the punishments I impose are those who deserve it (except for the occasional pull-a-tai, which I can settle almost immediately- there are more individuals who can reverse a copban than you think).
Once I enter into the cop radio, I make it known to everyone in there that the first person I catch abusing their rights or fucking around in the radio (while being aware of the warning) will get a 1 hour copban. The next will get 1 day, the next a week, and the next after that a month.
Sometimes though I am more lenient. If I see a cop abusing civilians, I strip him of his weapons (through death, mostly) then I suspect him. That way he will know how his victims feel and he will not do it again.
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Deliberate trolling and flaming on cop radio shall result in cop ban if continued after warning, I say.
I was always told by CBF that copban is to only be used on rulebreaks, not corruption. Corruption should lead to /su and jail, and copban for stuff like DMing and flaming.
If a cop DMs, flames, abuses /su for stupid reasons, I will warn if they are new players. If they're regulars, I copban them straight away as they should know better.
All this time I've personally been using copban, I stuck with what CBF told me, and will continue to unless a higher rank server manager / leader tells me otherwise.
In JDC's case, the copban was proper. The players were regulars, so they knew the rules, no need to warn them. If you use the cop radio as a way to troll / flame - you don't deserve to use it.... = copban. Although I must say, flaming on the radio isn't that big of an offense.. JDC shouldn't have copbanned him for an entire month for simply misusing the radio.
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/copban is, as far as I'm concerned, used for command abuses ONLY. If used to restrict roleplay, it is against the rules.
It is not used for command abuses only, check page 34 (or something) or SA:MP Developers Give Examples.. maybe try and get up to date with the times before coming back with such a blast. :roll:
EDIT:
Two little references, see this (was a few pages off):
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=18054.msg658038#msg658038 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=18054.msg658038#msg658038)
and this:
You are never obliged to be registered here, or to be accepted in to any of the departments to play as law enforcer. However all law enforcers need to obey the following rules:
1. All server rules must be followed.
2. You are law enforcer, this means you must act like one
3. Be polite, even if you wish to be strict
4. Never suspect people without a valid reason
5. If you are to give a fine, do not suspect
6. If people resist arrest, do not shoot them at once
7. Only use firearms when your life or that of civilians is in immediate danger
8. Never use firearms against a suspect that does not show a weapon
9. Use the PD cars as much as possible
10. Use the police radio as much as possible
11. Try not to work alone. Its more fun to work with others, especially experienced players
When you wish to dedicate most if not all your time to work as law enforcer, joining one of the departments is what you should do. When becoming a cadet, and later officer or higher you have to give up some freedom. The departments have more strict regulations as just trying to act like a cop, they require you to follow stricter guidelines and procedures. This is not for all, but those who know a little about real cop work will actually enjoy it. And once you have acquired the knowledge and training, you might aim for one of the special divisions where you can use special weapons and tactics.
Welcome to ARPD, Argonath Police Department. We are here to serve and protect the citizens of Argonath.
Any of them rules breached purposely and you're a regular trying to abuse the leniency of becoming a cop will be dealt with severally by a Sgt or above.
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These people I should be banned from the community because they are I am destroying Argonath.
And just for the record, fixed. You are nothing but an antagonist trying to continuously wage war with cops vs criminals instead of understanding the meaning of player character and player...
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Corruption deserves to die.
I am not debating the fact that you copbanned them, no. The point was how long do they deserve a copban for? 30 days for "Undesirable attitude in cop radio" ....i know strict but there is a limit
Once you come down back to earth you will realise the amount of days is not acceptable
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I am not debating the fact that you copbanned them, no. The point was how long do they deserve a copban for? 30 days for "Undesirable attitude in cop radio" ....i know strict but there is a limit
Once you come down back to earth you will realise the amount of days is not acceptable
He knew what he was doing, yet he continued anyway. Harsh offenses deserve harsh punishments.
Maybe you do not want to reform the negative attitude many cops have in general, but I do, and I will use any method I feel to be necessary.
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If copban is thought to be unfair, they can contact [email protected] about it. As admins are not really in their right to undermine another admins punishment.
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Maybe you do not want to reform the negative attitude many cops have in general, but I do, and I will use any method I feel to be necessary.
You must be one of those admins this quote really relates to "To admins: There is a command /tempban... Do you have an idea? Stop use the permban button on every fart... "
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You must be one of those admins this quote really relates to "To admins: There is a command /tempban... Do you have an idea? Stop use the permban button on every fart... "
> Implying a copban is a form of permanent and inescapable suffering.
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If they are good enough RPers then no one would cop ban them...
Almost everyone with a /bancop command will. They ban you for the most idiotic reasons these days...It is not used for command abuses only, check page 34 (or something) or SA:MP Developers Give Examples.. maybe try and get up to date with the times before coming back with such a blast. :roll:
EDIT:
Two little references, see this (was a few pages off):
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=18054.msg658038#msg658038 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=18054.msg658038#msg658038)
and this:
Any of them rules breached purposely and you're a regular trying to abuse the leniency of becoming a cop will be dealt with severally by a Sgt or above.
by the way, almost every cop does all those things, they shoot you as long as your name is orange.
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Those who are good RPers do not get copbanned, simply because no admin would punish good RP. As for SAPD, they are allowed to punish corrupt cops with a copban, but if you are a good RPer, chances are they wont. Good RPers will roleplay with cops and usually end up with a RP punishment.
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Those who are good RPers do not get copbanned, simply because no admin would punish good RP. As for SAPD, they are allowed to punish corrupt cops with a copban, but if you are a good RPer, chances are they wont. Good RPers will roleplay with cops and usually end up with a RP punishment.
In my opinion, it does not matter how great the roleplay was, but who the perpetrator is and the punisher's opinion of them. Yes, I'm saying that people are bias.
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It IS completely up to cop discretion in these scenarios.
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Aloo Gobbi I say.
CBFasi makes almost never any mistake, I've always had at-least 99% respect for him.
Cop Ban should be used for rule breaking.
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CBFasi makes almost never any mistake, I've always had at-least 99% respect for him.
Cop Ban should be used for rule breaking.
CBFasi is a friend and someone I look up to, but you must realize everyone has their share of mistakes.. you, myself, and CBF included. You just may not know as much as you're speaking about.. but trying to start a revolution against the president of argonath about how his commands should be used? Good luck :evil:
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In my opinion, it does not matter how great the roleplay was, but who the perpetrator is and the punisher's opinion of them. Yes, I'm saying that people are bias.
I treat every rulebreaker with the same harshness. The people who I deliberately go harsher on are the ones who already know, yet do it.
As Jcstodds said, good RP should be punished with an RP punishment.
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If someone role plays corrupted and get busted due his corruption, how should he be "punished" since corruption is "not allowed" (similar to criminals, breaking the law is not allowed = criminal get punished EX jailed, etc..) ? And no matter if your within SAPD or not, bad RP or good...!?
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CBFasi is a friend and someone I look up to, but you must realize everyone has their share of mistakes.. you, myself, and CBF included. You just may not know as much as you're speaking about.. but trying to start a revolution against the president of argonath about how his commands should be used? Good luck :evil:
lol whut are you on about :roll:
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If someone role plays corrupted and get busted due his corruption, how should he be "punished" since corruption is "not allowed" (similar to criminals, breaking the law is not allowed = criminal get punished EX jailed, etc..) ? And no matter if your within SAPD or not, bad RP or good...!?
Roleplay.
Do you barr a criminal from being suspected if he has been jailed before? No.
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no admin would punish good RP
They'd punish it as long as it didn't go the way they wanted to. Same goes for cops with access to /copban.
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Roleplay.
Do you barr a criminal from being suspected if he has been jailed before? No.
Can being a criminal be abused? No. Having an orange name does not have any effect except that you have an orange name and are labeled a suspect.. as opposed to being a cop with the ability to jai, free weapons, and all the lot.
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Can being a criminal be abused? No. Having an orange name does not have any effect except that you have an orange name and are labeled a suspect.. as opposed to being a cop with the ability to jai, free weapons, and all the lot.
Roleplay corruption =/= Abuse of jail/su
Lrn2corrupt.
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I do not see any proposals of a good solution of my question above..
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If someone role plays corrupted and get busted due his corruption, how should he be "punished" since corruption is "not allowed" (similar to criminals, breaking the law is not allowed = criminal get punished EX jailed, etc..) ? And no matter if your within SAPD or not, bad RP or good...!?
Roleplay.
Use your imagination.
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If someone role plays corrupted and get busted due his corruption, how should he be "punished" since corruption is "not allowed" (similar to criminals, breaking the law is not allowed = criminal get punished EX jailed, etc..) ? And no matter if your within SAPD or not, bad RP or good...!?
If a cop RP's a corrupt cop, then I give him a RP punishment. As there are many ways to RP corrupt cops, I also have many ways to torture them.
However, if a cop goes on duty to fuck around with his rights (read: abuse) or to act as a totally shitty cop who exists to make life miserable for other players, I don't see any reason not to copban. The longer, the better.
Common sense can show where the line is between those two, it's not too hard.
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And for all your knowledge.
As cop you should follow the procedures and actions of real life law officers.
That means that if you choose to play a corrupt or criminal cop, you can be suspended from service (copbanneD). This is valid for all.