Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:VC => VC:MP General => VC:MP - Vice City Multiplayer => VC:MP Ideas => Topic started by: Marcell on April 16, 2012, 03:40:05 pm
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Since there were some conflicts about this,
/c bribe ID amount works only if there's no bigger-rank in 800 meter radius
so in case I try to bribe a ARPD cop with FBI agent around, FBI agent will gain notification and the bribe won't do anything...if I bribe FBI agent and he accepts, the bribe works.
@allofpeople
please don't start the SCRIPTABUSEABUSE topic here, thanks
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Yeah, an useful idea.
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What if /c bribe gave notification to all in said radius (say same as /c l) and then FBI and senior officer+ of ARPD could "re-sus" the criminal so he regains same wanted/heat level and the cop who accepted bribe _could_ be suspected for aiding criminal activity/corruption (again, only by Senior officer+)
Everyone would still be able to accept a bribe, but you'd need to create a situation where other cops don't see the bribe (no more bigass warning text of "no longer wanted") unless bribed infront of 69 officers with donuts but maybe normal "evade" text.
Only if this is possible, of course :conf:
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What if /c bribe gave notification to all in said radius (say same as /c l) and then FBI and senior officer+ of ARPD could "re-sus" the criminal so he regains same wanted/heat level and the cop who accepted bribe _could_ be suspected for aiding criminal activity/corruption (again, only by Senior officer+)
this + possibility to suspect a cop by vcpd staff
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What if /c bribe gave notification to all in said radius (say same as /c l) and then FBI and senior officer+ of ARPD could "re-sus" the criminal so he regains same wanted/heat level and the cop who accepted bribe _could_ be suspected for aiding criminal activity/corruption (again, only by Senior officer+)
Everyone would still be able to accept a bribe, but you'd need to create a situation where other cops don't see the bribe (no more bigass warning text of "no longer wanted") unless bribed infront of 69 officers with donuts but maybe normal "evade" text.
Only if this is possible, of course :conf:
That would remove the purpose of bribe.
Also, radius's cannot be trusted too much. Especially in cases of interiors or walls separating players.
We can also fix this situation by allowing Higher ranks to remove a player from police duty.
It can be an addition to copban.
Once the duty is removed, the player can be suspected with treason.
That would be done only if the senior rank knows and has proof on who accepted the bribe.
Though they will have to figure it out on their own, script should not disclose names of the officer involved in corruption. :D
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Ah yeah, something like that would be cool - linking on to what aXXo said. I remember when cops in some of our old server versions could be wanted, jailed.
It would make sense if the bribe had to be given in hidden view, as it's a little odd if it takes place in an intense chase, surrounded by police, or in an interrogation. Hopefully the criminal would think to continue roleplaying, as it's a roleplay server and all. ;)
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Could be very nice.
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Disable /c bribe after surrender. The particular case was not script abuse only because he was in our custody, but also because the suspect was surrendered. Thus admins condoning rulebreaking when they supported the usage of scripts to circumvent the server rule which states "No escaping after surrender".
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How about disabling /c bribe after surrendering and adding /c bail to shorten jail time ? (if jail time is 5 minutes you could pay 2500$ to get out...etc)
not like anyone's gonna use /c bail unless they're pretty rich anyways...similar to real life more or less lol
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It would be abused like /confess was in SA:MP, which is why they removed it.
Jail is jail.
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How about disabling /c bribe after surrendering and adding /c bail to shorten jail time ? (if jail time is 5 minutes you could pay 2500$ to get out...etc)
not like anyone's gonna use /c bail unless they're pretty rich anyways...similar to real life more or less lol
...if it would only work on officer+ of ARPD :(
Everything done on freecops are claimed as abusing script that has been on server forever, or that is what it seems to be now a days :poke:
JDC: Bribing a cop =/= escaping from a cop.
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Would be cool if people could break others out of jail, once jailed...
Say, if they had a particular tool kit (available from a lesser used melee/tools store perhaps, or an illegal joint if it comes in the form of skeleton keys etc.) and they were next to the busted for x amount of time - although radius controlled things can be a little funny in the server - provided that no police notice, are in the immediate area, and that you are not picked up by whatever security systems, cameras you might be able to make a smooth escape.
That's sort of leading onto another idea, perhaps.
For the more ambiguous situations RP > scripts, right?
Hopefully the criminal would think to continue roleplaying, as it's a roleplay server and all. ;)
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Heh, I used to roleplay a few jail breakouts with Klaus, although it mostly focused on fighting off swarm of cops and not allowing them to get to jail cell before the prisoner gets out, lol
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Would be cool if people could break others out of jail, once jailed...
Say, if they had a particular tool kit (available from a lesser used melee/tools store perhaps, or an illegal joint if it comes in the form of skeleton keys etc.) and they were next to the busted for x amount of time - although radius controlled things can be a little funny in the server - provided that no police notice, are in the immediate area, and that you are not picked up by whatever security systems, cameras you might be able to make a smooth escape.
That's sort of leading onto another idea, perhaps.
For the more ambiguous situations RP > scripts, right?
Sounds kinda like deathmatch fest 2012. I like it.
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This is being implemented in a much different sense than suggested here.
Bribes would work as they currently do. However, if a bug is planted on the officer and they accept the bribe, this will be visible to whoever planted the bug on them. If a bug is planted on the bribing suspect, they will see that the suspect is attempting to bribe someone.
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It should be removed as it is easily exploitable, such as the old /confess command on SA:MP.
Either that or enforce regulation forbidding any escape once the suspect is in the custody of any law enforcement other than the one accepting the bribe, on the pain of administrative sanctions.
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We have never limited the usage of bribe command, it has never been a problem either. And it has been in the server since atleast 1.1.
Now because you didn't get your money once of a suspect, does not make the command abuseable. What Stormeus said is kinda something that fixes the problem.
Best solution is not removing the problem always, but working on ways around it to make it work.
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We have never limited the usage of bribe command, it has never been a problem either. And it has been in the server since atleast 1.1.
Now because you didn't get your money once of a suspect, does not make the command abuseable. What Stormeus said is kinda something that fixes the problem.
I care about making money off suspects just as I do about admins who support rulebreaking, which is about nothing at all. My point is that it can currently be a script-supported way of breaking one of the fundamental server rules that can be abused regardless of distance checks.
* Surrendered suspects (that have surrendered through /c sur(render)) cannot flee or be attacked by police unless under imminent threat.
* Surrendered suspects cannot be rescued either, until jailed.
Disable it after surrender or remove it.
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The rules you mentioned were put in place for a reason, and those reasons have nothing to do with criminals bribing police. The rule where players are not allowed to flee after surrendering is to try and increase the roleplay, seeing as they would of been cuffed by police. The rule where suspects cannot be rescued, is to prevent a surrendered suspect fleeing just because his mates pwnt every cop in town. Bribing police is roleplay, that can happen anytime between a criminal and a cop. So what if criminals are captured? This doesn't stop them handing over cash to let the cops forget all about the charges ;)
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This doesn't stop them handing over cash to let the cops forget all about the charges ;)
Aside from the fact that their hands are cuffed and they can't exactly reach into their pocket. :banana:
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The rules you mentioned were put in place for a reason, and those reasons have nothing to do with criminals bribing police. The rule where players are not allowed to flee after surrendering is to try and increase the roleplay, seeing as they would of been cuffed by police. The rule where suspects cannot be rescued, is to prevent a surrendered suspect fleeing just because his mates pwnt every cop in town. Bribing police is roleplay, that can happen anytime between a criminal and a cop. So what if criminals are captured? This doesn't stop them handing over cash to let the cops forget all about the charges ;)
It's like saying that it's okay to use gravity hacks because you are RPing a flying demigod, it's roleplay anyway.
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It's like saying that it's okay to use gravity hacks because you are RPing a flying demigod, it's roleplay anyway.
What....?
Also person actually CAN reach their pockets while cuffed. (Atleast around here)
And if you, JDC, are coming to this topic to blame us supporting rulebreakers you can simply fuck off.
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And if you, JDC, are coming to this topic to blame us supporting rulebreakers you can simply f**k off.
Emm, well, that was rude... :neutral:
Anyways, i don't really get your point JDC, i mean, how does the /c bribe command cause any rulebreaks or problems over here?
I never seen /c bribe command being abused in any way, and if speaking at that matter, then i seen this command being used only twice or something like that, when i saw "Player is now mysteriously no longer wanted"
Other than that, no-one has ever abused this command and no-one ever will, because mostly only the regular VCMP Argonath players are well aware of this command and of what it does. And when regulars break the rules, they have a lot stricter punishments applied to them, so i guess this fact keeps them away from abusing the /c bribe command, if it's even possible to abuse it..
And i do not actually see how bribing while surrendered is an abuse. It is not, it's purely roleplay. A suspect can bribe a cop anytime
BTW Kessu, a cuffed person cannot reach pockets, so he can be prevented from reaching any gun he might have in it, for example knife and etc.
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The problem isn't really the command itself, but how it's used. The only times I've ever seen it used successfully is a high-profile suspect paying a newcomer cop, who's hunting for money anyway, the bare minimum bribe to troll other police.
EDIT: Not that I suggest removing outright either, but when this happens and the bribing suspect (now civilian) just walks away from the roleplay because they're not wanted anymore, it gets annoying, and I see it as a type of ruined roleplay.
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The majority of corrupt cops are freecops (I mean sure, there is aXXo, Marcus, etc in VCPD) but criminals won't bother bribing goodie-two-shoes cops. Also, I fail to see where "trolling" comes into this.
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Emm, well, that was rude... :neutral:
What I consider "rude" is when someone comes to accuse you of supporting rulebreaking because he does not like the way a single command works that has been in server for years. If he did it with a "positive" way, he would of course get a positive answer. Shitting someone in post gives you what I said.
On the actual topic:
If a player uses /c bribe to "walk out of rp" then he isn't doing it right or is in a hurry to leave. Tho' it would be better if criminal AND the bribed cop would roleplay their situation out, instead of just using the command. Sometimes it just won't happen and I see no reason to remove a command because of "how it can be used wrong" when it's actually just a opinion.
Also I have to agree with KlausThe majority of corrupt cops are freecops (I mean sure, there is aXXo, Marcus, etc in VCPD) but criminals won't bother bribing goodie-two-shoes cops. Also, I fail to see where "trolling" comes into this.
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The only time I've seen the bribe command in action was when I was freecopping and came across hanney. He said ''U gud cop?'' and offered bribe. I said I gud took the bribe and went home merrily.
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1. If Klaus says that using the bribe command on one cop to escape from the custody of another cop is okay, then using fly-hacks to RP a flying demigod is okay too. After all, both are nothing but breaches of the server rules, and any administration members who REFUSE to uphold those rules are traitors and should be removed from the team.
2. I would like to commend Kessu's recent actions, adding more details to the portrayal of server administration... namely, telling others to fuck off. And to think you were one of those special mentions by Aragorn on the warning topic that nearly closed VC:MP not too long ago. Congratulations!
3. In regards to Abraham's post, the server rules are the server rules and there is no one who can discount or alter them except the Owners. If Klaus justifies script abuse, that does not mean it is okay. If upholding those rules is bullshit, then you can say I'm full of shit.
4. Rules define that escape after surrender is not allowed and I definitely do not see any exceptions specifying you can use scripts to do so.
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I think people may just be seeing the two extents of things.
It may not necessarily be the script that's the problem, but the people - how they, how we use it.
Hopefully the criminal would think to continue roleplaying, as it's a roleplay server and all. ;)
If you find roleplay a chore, or if it's not really "up there" for you, then maybe this isn't quite the server you were looking for.
Often it's easy to distinguish between the two groups.
If there are large concerns towards the script, rather than create/re-create rules we could always (if feasible) think about adding just little controls like you can't be above a certain heat - though then /c bribe would seem almost without any benefits for highly wanted criminals, but then again it's harder to make their cimes disappear - or make it so it can't be done with 3/4 + cops nearby; can't just walk away after being in a major chase or terrorist attack where the police had you in their vision.
Linked to the above example, you could argue that (the other) cops have all the right to re-suspect someone. As the whole thing is illegal, a top-class corrupt (or just a very smooth officer who wants an early bonus; or someone just playing with the criminal/working cleverly) could just suspect the person again after accepting the bribe, in the name of roleplay?
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I have to agree with JDC here. Perhaps on a relatively small server this is not a problem, but the working of the bribe command invites people to abuse it.
Example: two players are as criminals, one gest suspected and surrenders. His friend goes on cop duty and bribes him to be free, they continue their rampage.
Remember that we are to remain within the realm of roleplay, and a cop bribing a suspect who is held by a colleague in plain sight is not within this realm.
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I have to agree with JDC here. Perhaps on a relatively small server this is not a problem, but the working of the bribe command invites people to abuse it.
I take it that this is a request for removal.
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I have to agree with JDC here. Perhaps on a relatively small server this is not a problem, but the working of the bribe command invites people to abuse it.
Example: two players are as criminals, one gest suspected and surrenders. His friend goes on cop duty and bribes him to be free, they continue their rampage.
Remember that we are to remain within the realm of roleplay, and a cop bribing a suspect who is held by a colleague in plain sight is not within this realm.
I remember as well that this was the reason why /confess was removed from SA:MP. For those who do not know, /confess was basically SA:MP version of /c bribe, except you replaced the bribing cop with a church.
One scenario being suspects who killed a dozen cops, lead their pursuers around the state, only to go to a cathedral and confess to free him of his suspection so that the army of law enforcers outside cannot get him. The outcome of bribes on VC:MP are basically a mirror of that situation.
Turnstile justice at its best.
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I remember as well that this was the reason why /confess was removed from SA:MP. For those who do not know, /confess was basically SA:MP version of /c bribe, except you replaced the bribing cop with a church.
One scenario being suspects who killed a dozen cops, lead their pursuers around the state, only to go to a cathedral and confess to free him of his suspection so that the army of law enforcers outside cannot get him. The outcome of bribes on VC:MP are basically a mirror of that situation.
Turnstile justice at its best.
Bribing could easily be roleplayed in those cases, which would avoid the scripted abuse issues. As for /confess, that actually came from MTA:VC in another form, although as to why it was made for suspects and not cops is beyond me.
It almost seems like someone took the MTA:VC command, made it for suspects instead of cops, and tried to link Sauronism into the scripted part of the criminal roleplays. :lol:
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I have to agree with JDC here. Perhaps on a relatively small server this is not a problem, but the working of the bribe command invites people to abuse it.
Example: two players are as criminals, one gest suspected and surrenders. His friend goes on cop duty and bribes him to be free, they continue their rampage.
Remember that we are to remain within the realm of roleplay, and a cop bribing a suspect who is held by a colleague in plain sight is not within this realm.
Even if it's abusable, i never saw anyone abusing at that point.
But in that case, what about not being able to /c bribe if there is another cop within a certain radius? If there is another cop near-by when a cop accepts the bribe, he either gets auto-suspected for taking bribes or he becomes suspectable for other cops?
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You should re-read the rules.
It's a shame that the trust in players and vcmp administration is as low as it is.
Experience shows that if a command can be abused, it will be.
As fas as /confess is concerned, it was removed because cops started camping in front of every church for an easy kill.
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Bribe command hasn't been abused, and its usage is rare.
Does it encourage players to ruin roleplay? Only in some sense. Policeman can always deny the bribe offer.
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You should re-read the rules.
It's a shame that the trust in players and vcmp administration is as low as it is.
Low trust is earned through low performance, if you studied your recent VC:MP history. Admins are not removed or punished without reason, let alone the server put under threat of closure.
And yes, I do know what the rules say and mean.
As fas as /confess is concerned, it was removed because cops started camping in front of every church for an easy kill.
Also, at the time, the escape system based on distance from cops was not developed yet.
The bottom line here is abuse... it already has happened with this command and will continue to do so, so do not falsely claim that it has not yet, as it would be like moving /c kick down for everyone and claiming that it is never abused.
Experience shows that if a command can be abused, it will be.
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Bribe command hasn't been abused, and its usage is rare.
Does it encourage players to ruin roleplay? Only in some sense. Policeman can always deny the bribe offer.
Not in the case I stated above, which I know has happened from reports to the mail.
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I'm not 'pro-bribe', or 'anti-bribe', but more concerned about VC:MP Admin Team brought into question, and just the general workload for Scripters, or how rules may have to be adopted when perhaps not necessary.
As far as I'm aware, there has only been one "known" case of possible "abuse" with the command in recent months - I may be wrong - but it hasn't been something deeply worried about in the server in past times.
Other than the so called abuse, I think it's just a mark of poor roleplay if you use a command severely to destroy a roleplay situation in an absurd way as in examples mentioned already.
As a head of the VCPD, I wouldn't expect any of its members to even consider accepting a bribe, and we have had very few concerns about it.
To get around possible difficulties posted here, I would just have to go back on the following:
If there are large concerns towards the script, rather than create/re-create rules we could always (if feasible) think about adding just little controls like you can't be above a certain heat - though then /c bribe would seem almost without any benefits for highly wanted criminals, but then again it's harder to make their cimes disappear - or make it so it can't be done with 3/4 + cops nearby; can't just walk away after being in a major chase or terrorist attack where the police had you in their vision.
Linked to the above example, you could argue that (the other) cops have all the right to re-suspect someone. As the whole thing is illegal, a top-class corrupt (or just a very smooth officer who wants an early bonus; or someone just playing with the criminal/working cleverly) could just suspect the person again after accepting the bribe, in the name of roleplay?
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Not in the case I stated above, which I know has happened from reports to the mail.
Such abusers are getting caught and punished sooner or later.
This would have been a rare usage of this command, which is not often used itself.
I'm fine with the removal of bribe since it's a minor change.
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/c bribe will be removed.
Would it be okay to replace it with VCPD command staff being able to unsuspect and copban though?
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Such abusers are getting caught and punished sooner or later.
We shouldn't invite them to do it, though. ;)
I'm fine with the removal of bribe since it's a minor change.
Same here. It's unfortunate, but it would be nice to see it be a roleplayed option instead, assuming officers can unsuspect for it in roleplay purposes.
/c bribe will be removed.
Would it be okay to replace it with VCPD command staff being able to unsuspect and copban though?
I'm surprised they can't already... o.0
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now the most annoying thing will be if there's like 5 arpd officers online and you're wanted (no vcpd guys on), there will be no ways to bribe them since there's no unsus for them, just like on samp...now someone will show up saying 'use ur common sense pay them and tell them to leave you alone so you lose wanted level!11' but that's not the same thing as losing wanted level itself really
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now the most annoying thing will be if there's like 5 arpd officers online and you're wanted (no vcpd guys on), there will be no ways to bribe them since there's no unsus for them, just like on samp...now someone will show up saying 'use ur common sense pay them and tell them to leave you alone so you lose wanted level!11' but that's not the same thing as losing wanted level itself really
Are you able to escape in VC:MP like in SA:MP, or is it still using the older system where you stay wanted until caught/killed?
If the former, it may be tougher...but you could pay off multiple cops in a RP'ed bribe to resolve that until you escape, according to the scripts.
If the latter, I guess it would take quite a bit of RP'ed organization and agreements with all players to pull it off.
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now the most annoying thing will be if there's like 5 arpd officers online and you're wanted (no vcpd guys on), there will be no ways to bribe them since there's no unsus for them, just like on samp...now someone will show up saying 'use ur common sense pay them and tell them to leave you alone so you lose wanted level!11' but that's not the same thing as losing wanted level itself really
Go to jail.
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Are you able to escape in VC:MP like in SA:MP, or is it still using the older system where you stay wanted until caught/killed?
VC:MP has an SA:MP-like system of evasion, so this really isn't the end of the world for criminals.
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We shouldn't invite them to do it, though. ;)
Yeah. From my experience I know that money cheaters usually use different, sort of less complicated methods to abuse.
But if it's going to limit such rulebreaks, it's okay.
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VC:MP has an SA:MP-like system of evasion, so this really isn't the end of the world for criminals.
Then as I mentioned in my post, I don't see what the issue is so long as people roleplay it and VC:MP VCPD/FBI Command Staff is able to unsuspect and copban. That's really all that's needed to make it possible for roleplaying out without those issues. :)
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But in that case, what about not being able to /c bribe if there is another cop within a certain radius? If there is another cop near-by when a cop accepts the bribe, he either gets auto-suspected for taking bribes or he becomes suspectable for other cops?
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I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!!
Re-sus the player for "Original crime + attempt to bribe a government official".
Then sue the cop for treason in the court...
That is...when you know who accepted the bribe.
When you dont know...bow down to the pro corrupt cop.
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I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!!
Re-sus the player for "Original crime + attempt to bribe a government official".
Then sue the cop for treason in the court...
That is...when you know who accepted the bribe.
When you dont know...bow down to the pro corrupt cop.
Or contact the FBI :lol:
Nice solution, though!
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I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!!
Re-sus the player for "Original crime + attempt to bribe a government official".
Then sue the cop for treason in the court...
That is...when you know who accepted the bribe.
When you dont know...bow down to the pro corrupt cop.
No. The cop can get away easily.
In one of the incidents of abuse I personally witnessed, the cop used a different name.
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Hah, aXXo's going to get sued rather hard. :lol:
Linked to the above example, you could argue that (the other) cops have all the right to re-suspect someone. As the whole thing is illegal, a top-class corrupt (or just a very smooth officer who wants an early bonus; or someone just playing with the criminal/working cleverly) could just suspect the person again after accepting the bribe, in the name of roleplay?
^ Smooth criminal-cop can do well hehe.