Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Matt Murdock on August 17, 2012, 08:27:39 pm
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As I've noticed, there lately been lots of bans and tempbans for DM, Can anyone please help me understand the new definition of the term called 'deathmatch'?
Thanks in advance.
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Attacking without a roleplay reason.
Attacking without to provide the roleplay reason you have to every player involved in the scene.
Attacking without to make all players involved to understand your roleplay reason.
With other words... "Hi, you killed my brother and I will kill you now" *pew pew* - Isn't roleplaying.
Interact and have some fun instead of approach, present your reason and without to check if the "victim" understand and agree to the roleplay is deathmatching.
Have a good day.
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Hmm, What if I'm a suspect, with 3 or more friends of mine, the cops chase me, they blast the car I was in, me and my friends shoot the cop. Is that a DM from my side?
Do keep in mind, I'm a suspect and I have to evade cops.
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You are allowed, what will happen if cops do not want to suspect you...
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I guess this topic is in relation to this earlier;
(http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq59/crayzie/ss.jpg)
You will possibly find players are being banned/tempbanned for death-matching because they repetitively shoot at cops/provoke cops or other players to try entice shootouts, or then they go along shooting people they don't like.
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With other words... "Hi, you killed my brother and I will kill you now" *pew pew* - Isn't roleplaying.
Objection! I would actually kill another person for murdering my relative.
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Actually, Devin. It indeed is related to that. You know, I prefer to look over my mistakes and fix them, but this time, I fail to find one.
Here's the full screenshot :
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/512/samp436ho.png)
Another one from before :
(http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/2233/samp435p.png)
As the picture shows, I was a suspect (with one star, so yes I was suspected, by Conroy for aiding, its not like I got suspected for killing someone, thus calling it DM.)
As the second picture shows, I was already with the guys in the car, its not like I randomly popped out of nowhere to put my leg where it didn't belong.
Also the armor can be seen in the second picture, which was from earlier, so that proves I was also being fired upon by the FBI/cops. Also the cop can be seen aiming at me, in the first one.
So, I was a suspect, being fired upon, and not like I was copbaiting, or chasing after cops, I returned fired to save my life and escape after our car was blasted. How exactly is that death matching? :roll:
My humble apologies if shooting at FBI is forbidden from now on and considered death matching.
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By your description that seems rather unlikely that you deathmatched, but I have nothing to say as I was not the administration member dealing with it nor an administrator on SA:MP, and I wont question other Argonath administrators.
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Hmm, What if I'm a suspect, with 3 or more friends of mine, the cops chase me, they blast the car I was in, me and my friends shoot the cop. Is that a DM from my side?
Do keep in mind, I'm a suspect and I have to evade cops.
Aragorn said;
It depends on the situation...
1. If it is the mafia HQ and all mafia members are there, cops are trying to arrest one of them, of cos, nonsense if other mafia members will stand and watch it...
In this case members of mafia group will start to shoot back, trying to help the friend... It is ok...
2. Police is chasing some guy and suddenly appears a car with non-wanted civilian who started shooting them... Simply, cops can decide it is a deathmatcher/cophunter... Attack without a reason is not allowed... And this rule plays here not the best role... As for the criminal helper, so for admins who got reports and for sure will freeze you to get the reason of shooting cops...
How to help?
In this case (if you want to shoot cops back) the main target is to get wanted level... Get him into your car and try to get rid of chase... Cops will suspect you for aiding, then aub, your dream became be a reality...
With wanted level you are allowed to help any sort of criminals with any sort of help...
Why is such rule actually?
Well, you see blue nick of cop, you know he can shoot you if you are criminal... So do cops when see a wanted level of your nick... Both sides are equal and do not confuse each other, less misunderstanding, less reports to admins...
If you are suspected with three "civilans" in a vehicle does the first rule applies from Aragorn's quote. Mafia members will not lean back and enjoy the ride if cops attack their mate in the same vehicle. Though, is it worth to get wanted because the driver is suspected for reckless driving? If you have lucky you can defend your self and clear your crime by paying a ticket instead of defend your selves from the cops who opened fire at you and gain a valid wanted level which will result in a pursuit. Consider the easiest outcome for your crew! :)
Objection! I would actually kill another person for murdering my relative.
Object how much you wish. This is how it's. You are not allowed to attack another player direct after you had said your sentence. Make sure he is aware of your reason and involve him in the roleplay. Roleplay is created by individuals, not an individual.
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Every time you get suspected turn on frap, it's the best backup :razz:
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Object how much you wish. This is how it's. You are not allowed to attack another player direct after you had said your sentence. Make sure he is aware of your reason and involve him in the roleplay. Roleplay is created by individuals, not an individual.
I'm not the one who cannot explain properly. You said yourself killing another for getting your brother killed is not role-play, but it's a very good reason in both game and real life to commit murder if you are mentally unstable in being civil. Or a mobster. I'm not trying to tell you how you do your job bad or some shit like that, that's not my point - please, do have trouble elaborating next time what you meant as "Non-RP" reason, you are not a bad guy and always willing to help out others and you even wrote some guides over here at this subforum, try not to create confusion by leaving almost-blank statements. Hope you are not offended ;)
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Actually, Devin. It indeed is related to that. You know, I prefer to look over my mistakes and fix them, but this time, I fail to find one.
Here's the full screenshot :
Another one from before :
As the picture shows, I was a suspect (with one star, so yes I was suspected, by Conroy for aiding, its not like I got suspected for killing someone, thus calling it DM.)
As the second picture shows, I was already with the guys in the car, its not like I randomly popped out of nowhere to put my leg where it didn't belong.
Also the armor can be seen in the second picture, which was from earlier, so that proves I was also being fired upon by the FBI/cops. Also the cop can be seen aiming at me, in the first one.
So, I was a suspect, being fired upon, and not like I was copbaiting, or chasing after cops, I returned fired to save my life and escape after our car was blasted. How exactly is that death matching? :roll:
My humble apologies if shooting at FBI is forbidden from now on and considered death matching.
now they'll tell you to send a report on samp@argonath which will be ignored, basically what this server is in a nutshell majority of times
inb4 my post gets removed or i get warned for moaning or 'shitting on argonath'
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now they'll tell you to send a report on samp@argonath which will be ignored, basically what this server is in a nutshell majority of times
inb4 my post gets removed or i get warned for moaning or 'shitting on argonath'
this..
in other words, you got tempbanned so the cops will have easier job in killing us.
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I'm not the one who cannot explain properly. You said yourself killing another for getting your brother killed is not role-play, but it's a very good reason in both game and real life to commit murder if you are mentally unstable in being civil. Or a mobster. I'm not trying to tell you how you do your job bad or some shit like that, that's not my point - please, do have trouble elaborating next time what you meant as "Non-RP" reason, you are not a bad guy and always willing to help out others and you even wrote some guides over here at this subforum, try not to create confusion by leaving almost-blank statements. Hope you are not offended ;)
I apologise if you didn't catched my message correct! What I meant was that you can not approach your "victim", provide the reason and shoot him instantly without giving the opposite a chance to interact with you or explain him self. You must give every player a chance to react and understand, aswell to interact.
I hope it got more clear now then the first time!
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I'm not the one who cannot explain properly. You said yourself killing another for getting your brother killed is not role-play, but it's a very good reason in both game and real life to commit murder if you are mentally unstable in being civil. Or a mobster. I'm not trying to tell you how you do your job bad or some shit like that, that's not my point - please, do have trouble elaborating next time what you meant as "Non-RP" reason, you are not a bad guy and always willing to help out others and you even wrote some guides over here at this subforum, try not to create confusion by leaving almost-blank statements. Hope you are not offended ;)
How would the person you kill know you are his relative, and are out to get him?
If he does not, you are DMing him.
Simple as that.
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First I though Mash post cleared up all my doubts, but then Gandalf killed his whole explanation putting it on a higher level!
Santa simplicita! Brevity is the soul of wit.
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First I though Mash post cleared up all my doubts, but then Gandalf killed his whole explanation putting it on a higher level!
Santa simplicita! Brevity is the soul of wit.
The difference between my post and Gandalf's is the letters.. ;) We explain the same thing, I use more letters then Gandalf did but in the bottom we both explained the same thing.
Read his posts again and then mine - I am sure it will make sense!
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TL;DR
You need to have a roleplayish reason and you had to have provided it to all parties in the shootout.
Random helping out in the streets because "he is your friend" is not a roleplay reason, nor a provided one.
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Well admins have a valid reason for their ban and they ban/tempban after spectating , so arguing with them is useless as you are the one who did the thing.
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If you are suspected with three "civilans" in a vehicle does the first rule applies from Aragorn's quote. Mafia members will not lean back and enjoy the ride if cops attack their mate in the same vehicle. Though, is it worth to get wanted because the driver is suspected for reckless driving? If you have lucky you can defend your self and clear your crime by paying a ticket instead of defend your selves from the cops who opened fire at you and gain a valid wanted level which will result in a pursuit. Consider the easiest outcome for your crew! :)
They were wanted for murder, now I wasn't there at the time of murder, they found me in middle of the desert, and as I was a friend, I decided to help them evade, as they offered me a ride.
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9779/crimez.jpg)
As it can be seen, it was a member of the admin team too who suspected me, and another member decided to give out a tempban, all I can say in its regards is, total mindfuck. Does the admin team lack communication between each other?
now they'll tell you to send a report on samp@argonath which will be ignored, basically what this server is in a nutshell majority of times
inb4 my post gets removed or i get warned for moaning or 'shitting on argonath'
They can't say that, as I'm not here to report anyone, I do not wish that, everyone makes mistakes.
The only point of making this topic was to find out what mistake I made, so I can take up the responsibility and learn from it, so I don't repeat the same in the future.
If its the admin's mistake, I just wish the admin involved to take the responsibility, and make a humble apology to clear up my name. Everyone makes mistakes.
Well admins have a valid reason for their ban and they ban/tempban after spectating , so arguing with them is useless as you are the one who did the thing.
Can you please point out the wrong doing here? :devroll: Because I don't believe if an admin specs a person for 3 hours while the person is only growing weed, and then tempbans him for something he didn't do, would be a valid reason to give out the ban.
this..
in other words, you got tempbanned so the cops will have easier job in killing us.
Very true, but it sucks if the cops now have to use their admin powers to stop the mafias. Like the weapon equip spam wasn't enough.
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And with such attitude you want Sforza to become official?
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They were wanted for murder, now I wasn't there at the time of murder, they found me in middle of the desert, and as I was a friend, I decided to help them evade, as they offered me a ride.
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9779/crimez.jpg)
You were a bit unlucky here, as you got suspected second before tempbanned.
How we could actually know that you are friend with them and not example a hostage? Suddenly you just took combat out of ass and opened fire at cops as civilian without saying anything..
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Yes, pardon for the attitude, it comes as I feel somewhat abused now, yet I try to find my own mistake and fix it.
Regarding the official status, we have been warned by the Sforza leaders and try our best to stay out of trouble.
But in the entire history of the family, Sforza has never been accused of DM, before the last 3 days. When Tony and Bundy got banned for the same, while helping Corleones, as we're allies. I was not there so I won't speak about it.
But I wasn't even helping anyone, I was trying to get away with some fellas. And I only shot after being shot at, while I was a suspect. What mistake did I make there?
You were a bit unlucky here, as you got suspected second before tempbanned.
How we could actually know that you are friend with them and not example a hostage? Suddenly you just took combat out of ass and opened fire at cops as civilian without saying anything..
If logs are to be checked, it was exactly 2 minutes before the tempban, as at the time of tempban I was jumping away with Marcell trying to find a car.
Also, I shot with M4, the only guy I shot was Tevin by the time. The combat bullets are still full as in the picture.
How you're supposed to know? The entire server knows Sforza and Corleone are one, despite that, I was in the car you guys blasted, from almost an hour.
It was me, Marcell, AirOrel, Toto and Barney Stintson in that car, with Barney on top, Barney was surfing and shooting, and if logs are to be checked, I was stopping him, as he was relatively knew. Some of us also wanted to rob two guys following us, but I told them not to, after I checked those guy's whenmade and found out they registered the very same day. Now If I'm the one trying to prevent any sort of DM or rule break, and in the end I myself get banned for it, I do not make a good example of a role model, do I?
:ps: Anyhow, Thanks for finally posting here Shejken, I was waiting, its much appreciated.
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I only shot after being shot at, while I was a suspect. What mistake did I make there?
I wouldn't have suspected you for shooting if you weren't shooting
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I wouldn't have suspected you for shooting if you weren't shooting
Indeed, then, what was the tempban for? :devroll:
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Are we actually speaking about the incident what happened yesterday evening at Verdant Bluffs? I got photographic memory and i'm very sure i even checked twice on KyleSforza that he really was shooting at officers(including me) as civilian before issuing the tempban.
I will request logcheck on this
Other than that, i haven't ever even chased you for two hours..
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Indeed, then, what was the tempban for? :devroll:
Some admins are more strict than others. While some may suspect for shooting, some may warn/kick/ban for it. If the admin at hand spectated you for a while seeing you DM'd a couple of times / have DM'd in the past, he did have all the right to share the banhammer.
Also some admins obviously know the case with individual players better than someone who sees the rulebreak for the first time, but has only heard of it been done before, that's just common sense.
Read; I am not commenting on this specific case at hand but as in what happens on a daily basis, as I do not know the case at all.
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Indeed We are Shejken, please do so. I was cruising with the guys in the same car from over an hour, its not like I popped out of nowhere. :razz:
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Are we actually speaking about the incident what happened yesterday evening at Verdant Bluffs? I got photographic memory and i'm very sure i even checked twice on KyleSforza that he really was shooting at officers(including me) as civilian before issuing the tempban.
I will request logcheck on this
Other than that, i haven't ever even chased you for two hours..
You might didnt, but we were driving around Bone County and we saw Kyle running around looking for a ride, we picked him up and drove around for atleast 45 minutes before going to Verdant Bluffs where the shootout happened, and as Aragorn said:
It depends on the situation...
1. If it is the mafia HQ and all mafia members are there, cops are trying to arrest one of them, of cos, nonsense if other mafia members will stand and watch it...
In this case members of mafia group will start to shoot back, trying to help the friend... It is ok...
So indeed, Kyle been with us and not just came behind you as civilian shooting you with no reason, so at this situation as Aragorn said Kyle could shoot you..
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There's your proof Shejken, within seconds ^^. Log check will prove the same.
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Well admins have a valid reason for their ban and they ban/tempban after spectating , so arguing with them is useless as you are the one who did the thing.
Admins are not always correct.
If someone kills your brother, sister, mum or dad, at least RP that you are comming for them. Call them, anonymous. Tell them you are gonna come and kill him, tell him the reason so he understands it. So when you finally reach him, stalk him a little and RP with him before you shoot the shit out of him.
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We are all humans here, and as humans its perfectly normal to have some disagreements for we aint perfect, with that said I just want to announce that the motive of this topic isnt to bash anyone, we completely understand that the administration team is composed by humans and 2/3 adminstration staff members aren't enough to keep track of more than 100 players at the same time. The true and original motive of this topic is, in fact, to proove and clean KyleSforza's name, the ban reason is appeared in public, and we all know the public cant see the situation from the start, so seeing a ban reason as "DMing" will make the public automatically stereotype that player indeed as a "DMer" without looking further into the situation, so again I repeat that the reason of this topic isnt whatsoever to bash anyone, to get anyone into trouble, it is merely to clean the name of KyleSforza and aswell of the Sforza group, I know this is only a game, but its a game which you interact with human beings, and thats enough for me to take it serious. And for that reason I myself as one of the leaders of the Sforza group always demanded and will keep on demanding as long as Im leading the group respect to all players, I hope that Gandalf understands that "attitudes" are somewhat normal but of course not tolerable, some players are older, some are younger and cant keep a sense of formality in discussions, with that in mind I completely understand the reason for Kyle's sarcasm as he feels abused, but as his "guide" I have to help him control those attitudes. Now Gandalf, I will have a talk with Kyle about the attitude, but again I hope you understand the reason for it, It's human and more susceptible to happen to younger players when they feel abused, but again, that will be taken care of. I would appreciate that this situation is cleared out however, since the past week, and every Sforza member can back me up on this one, I have already kicked over 4 members for behaviour I didnt find fit for an educated human being and rule breaking, I trust Kyle on this one, but again, I wasnt there to know the complete story, I'm just part of the "Public", so I need this sorten out to know which actions to take. I hope I made myself clear and maybe calmed down the situation a bit.
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I will request logcheck on this
Actually cancel this request if you don't want to apologize to Kyle.
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I do not mind if Kyle is feeling abused or butthurt and he wants to make a topic.
But accusing admins of using their admin power to put a situation to their advantage is crossing the limit of good behaviour.
Any admin who is using the commands to give themselves advantage in a roleplay situation (and yes that can include combat) is going to be removed from the team, let that be clear.
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I completely understand your point of view Gandalf, but like I said, people say things they shouldnt in the heat of the moment . Kyle has been with us ever since MTA VC and I have never seen these kind of problems coming from him, I'm 99% sure he didn't mean what he said, as I'm 99% sure he didn't mean to bash on the administration actions and the choice of administration staff members. Nonetheless an apologise will be given on this same topic from Kyle for his irrational comment about the "abuse of administration commands".
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Somehow, the rules are not the same as they was in RS3. They are more... fuzzy now..
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Yes, pardon for the attitude, it comes as I feel somewhat abused now, yet I try to find my own mistake and fix it.
Regarding the official status, we have been warned by the Sforza leaders and try our best to stay out of trouble.
But in the entire history of the family, Sforza has never been accused of DM, before the last 3 days. When Tony and Bundy got banned for the same, while helping Corleones, as we're allies. I was not there so I won't speak about it.
Then perhaps the current members are not at the level they were in history.
But I wasn't even helping anyone, I was trying to get away with some fellas. And I only shot after being shot at, while I was a suspect. What mistake did I make there?
If logs are to be checked, it was exactly 2 minutes before the tempban, as at the time of tempban I was jumping away with Marcell trying to find a car.
Logs:
[20:15:34] CMD -> Conroy (29) : /su 49 shooting
[20:15:40] CMD -> TeaM_Shejken (45) : /tempban 49 60 dm
How you're supposed to know? The entire server knows Sforza and Corleone are one, despite that, I was in the car you guys blasted, from almost an hour.
Logs:
[13:46:46] KyleSforza (logged in) has left server
[19:55:54] KyleSforza logged in
20 minutes max, not 1 hour.
You can try to make a mountain out of this, but at least get your own story straight.
As I did not spectate the situation, it is virtually impossible for me to know if the punishment was correct.
However what Shejken has posted here was closer to reality as what you posted, so I have to be inclined to believe him. That is not because of him being admin and you player, but because what he tells is accurate and at least two verifiable points of your story are not.
Two other points were correct, you did warn Barney and shot only Tevin with M4.
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I do not mind if Kyle is feeling abused or butthurt and he wants to make a topic.
I definitely am not butthurt, as one red line is not enough to ruin the respect KyleSforza has from the players on the server. They know KyleSforza can never DM.
The motive of this topic has been clearly explained by Tony.
And this is not the first time, last time I asked Mash to clear up the reason for my tempban, and I did come clean that time too.
But accusing admins of using their admin power to put a situation to their advantage is crossing the limit of good behaviour.
Any admin who is using the commands to give themselves advantage in a roleplay situation (and yes that can include combat) is going to be removed from the team, let that be clear.
Yes, I did apologize for that part.
You can try to make a mountain out of this, but at least get your own story straight.
As I did not spectate the situation, it is virtually impossible for me to know if the punishment was correct.
However what Shejken has posted here was closer to reality as what you posted, so I have to be inclined to believe him. That is not because of him being admin and you player, but because what he tells is accurate and at least two verifiable points of your story are not.
Two other points were correct, you did warn Barney and shot only Tevin with M4.
I'm definitely not trying to create a scene here or make a mountain out of anything. :devroll:
I'm just trying to raise awareness, to get a rule straight. My first motive is done, as the logs show I was in the car already.
Now the ultimate question, to you Gandalf. As you're the only one who can clear this rule up, whatever you say goes. :roll:
Is it DM, if there're four players in one car, two of them are suspects, two other Drivebying(cops are too lazy to suspect them). All of a sudden one car full of cops appears, DBs the suspects vehicle, it gets on fire everyone jumps out, and among the suspected players, the unsuspected ones shoot as well, thinking they were in the same car, so cops must be aware.
Would that be deemed as deathmatch?
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Now the ultimate question, to you Gandalf. As you're the only one who can clear this rule up, whatever you say goes. :roll:
Is it DM, if there're four players in one car, two of them are suspects, two other Drivebying(cops are too lazy to suspect them). All of a sudden one car full of cops appears, DBs the suspects vehicle, it gets on fire everyone jumps out, and among the suspected players, the unsuspected ones shoot as well, thinking they were in the same car, so cops must be aware.
Would that be deemed as deathmatch?
If you are not suspected, as you said "Two other drivebying" whom are not suspected should not be drive-bying cops as that itself is deathmatching.
If the cops shoot the car that 2 suspects and 2 civilians are in, if the car blows up, the two civilians may not shoot unless they are already suspected.
Players must be aware of that, it does not matter if you're with the suspects and not suspected, you may not engage(shoot) the cops until you are suspected.
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By the topic, ''Definition of Deathmatching'' = KyleSforza :cop:
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It's so simple,but I believe you refuse to either see or understand Kyle.
1. You were civilian in a car and cops were not informed are you a hostige,victim,or fellow aider.
2. You jump out and start shoot cops without even speaking once or notify= DM you've been handled for.
3. You get suspected,and tempbanned 6 seconds afterwards clear time to write a tempban .
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It's so simple,but I believe you refuse to either see or understand Kyle.
1. You were civilian in a car and cops were not informed are you a hostige,victim,or fellow aider.
2. You jump out and start shoot cops without even speaking once or notify= DM you've been handled for.
3. You get suspected,and tempbanned 6 seconds afterwards clear time to write a tempban .
Ah, Finally someone speaking point to point.
Ah well lock and load the topic.
Next time I won't shoot if I'm in a car but not a suspect, and if the cop shoots me I'm reporting them for DM.
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Locked on the author's request.