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Argonath RPG Community => Forum and site ideas and information => Topic started by: Abraham on August 22, 2012, 10:24:11 am

Title: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Abraham on August 22, 2012, 10:24:11 am
Please restrict the access to unban requests to managers only.
Admins can talk about unban requests in the admin boards if they so wish.

I'm pretty sure we're all tired of seeing 5+ admins bullying one player trying to get unbanned.

If this doesn't go through, I suggest you allow cyber-bullying for everyone, we should all have a fair chance to be bullies.
The right to bully others shouldn't be restricted to administration only.

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying)
"Bullying is a form of aggressive behavior manifested by the use of force or coercion to affect others, particularly when the behavior is habitual and involves an imbalance of power. The "imbalance of power" may be social power and/or physical power. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a "target"."

http://www.stopbullying.gov/what-is-bullying/definition/index.html (http://www.stopbullying.gov/what-is-bullying/definition/index.html)
"An Imbalance of Power: Kids who bully use their power—such as physical strength, access to embarrassing information, or popularity—to control or harm others."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bullying (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bullying)
"A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people."
"To treat in an overbearing or intimidating manner."
"To force one's way aggressively or by intimidation."


http://childparenting.about.com/od/schoollearning/g/bullying-definition.htm (http://childparenting.about.com/od/schoollearning/g/bullying-definition.htm)
"Bullying is intentional aggressive behavior. It can take the form of physical or verbal harassment and involves an imbalance of power (a group of children can gang up on a victim or someone who is physically bigger or more aggressive can intimidate someone else, for instance)."
Someone had to say it.
Thank you.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: CharlieKasper on August 22, 2012, 10:43:29 am
Yes. Or at least don't allow admins who are not even related to the ban to post.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: LoHi on August 22, 2012, 11:40:04 am
Please, do this. I'm disgusted at the actions of some admins.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Mariio on August 22, 2012, 11:51:11 am
Please, do this. I'm disgusted at the actions of some admins.
go ban those admins
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: ANUNNAKI on August 22, 2012, 11:52:35 am
Supported.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Devin on August 22, 2012, 12:44:16 pm
Last I heard, only the administrators related to the Unban request may post, it seems people don't obey that unfortunately.
Not to mention, for example; Only SA:MP Admins may post in SA:MP Unban Requests, Stunt Admins for example may only post in Stunt Unban Requests, not the RP servers unban requests.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Sawyer on August 22, 2012, 12:47:51 pm
I remember my ban, and JDC judging me.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Pandalink on August 22, 2012, 12:50:11 pm
I'm pretty sure we're all tired of seeing 5+ admins bullying one player trying to get unbanned.

Someone had to say it.

Indeed.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Ted on August 22, 2012, 02:07:16 pm
Again only post with relevant information nothing useful or anything to do with the ban do not post
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Karmps. on August 22, 2012, 02:15:18 pm
Totally agreed, since it's upto to managers and the HQ to decide .
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Abraham on August 22, 2012, 03:28:21 pm
Again only post with relevant information nothing useful or anything to do with the ban do not post
That simply isn't the case and if it's a rule it's enforced horribly bad.

Comments like "Being suspected everyday does not make you a good criminal any more than the amount of cops you shoot down. In fact, it shows you are not skilled enough to avoid getting caught by cops while doing crimes." are very common and only serves to provoke the banned player.
Not to mention this specific comment was from someone who's not even an SAMP Admin as far as I know.

Adding a restriction so that only managers can post makes things a lot easier for everyone.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Jack White on August 22, 2012, 03:30:57 pm
Supported.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: SugarD on August 22, 2012, 05:33:58 pm
Last I heard, only the administrators related to the Unban request may post, it seems people don't obey that unfortunately.
Not to mention, for example; Only SA:MP Admins may post in SA:MP Unban Requests, Stunt Admins for example may only post in Stunt Unban Requests, not the RP servers unban requests.
This is correct, however posted information about such is not only difficult, if not impossible, to find on all the unban request boards, but the universal permissions Moderators/Administrators and above are granted allow them to physically post in all of the unban request boards, regardless of which one they are supposed to have access to post in, which complicates the confusion further.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: ElMartu on August 22, 2012, 07:24:30 pm
Very supported
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: JDC on August 23, 2012, 04:58:24 am
I see the intention of this topic is only to provoke.

With regards to the "Being suspected everyday does not make you a good criminal any more than the amount of cops you shoot down. In fact, it shows you are not skilled enough to avoid getting caught by cops while doing crimes" statement. If you can prove that killing many cops is what actually makes someone a criminal, then feel free to say that the comment is merely a provocation.

Unless you can prove that said comments are completely useless and have nothing whatsoever to do with the ban case, then do not make up false allegations and bullshit.

Again only post with relevant information nothing useful or anything to do with the ban do not post

For example, what I posted in Marcell's unban request (his behavior extending to other areas).

For the rest, if you cannot handle comments (which are not completely useless, by the way) on your unban requests, do not get banned. If you will claim that no one asked the commenters (including the 5+ admins who allegedly bully people) to post comments, then keep in mind no one asked the posters to get themselves banned in the first place.

Sad to see how some are too closed-minded to differentiate situation analysis from "cyber-bullying".

Topic locked for the reason of making false accusations against Administration team.
Community / SA:MP HQ will take it from here.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Devin on August 23, 2012, 11:07:27 pm
Topic locked for the reason of making false accusations against Administration team.
Community / SA:MP HQ will take it from here.

Looks like you missed the Lock button...  :conf:
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Abraham on August 23, 2012, 11:08:39 pm
Looks like you missed the Lock button...  :conf:
No, it was unlocked.




I'm not an administration-hater, so do not attempt to paint me as one, JDC.
I find it interesting how you make derogatory comments towards me, paint me in a bad light, challenge me (asking me to prove things that need not be proved) and then proceed with locking the topic, leaving me no chance to defend myself.
Defenition of bully/bullying.
"A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people."
"To treat in an overbearing or intimidating manner."
Something to think about?

If you have any further problems with me personally there's the PM function, you can also find my Skype ID in my profile.


For future reference...
I'm not attempting to provoke anyone with this idea, it's a legitimate idea / possible fix to an issue I believe is present.
I'm also not trying to "out" anyone, in case you haven't noticed, I've refrained from linking to topics or naming anyone.
There's also no moaning going on, nor is there any shit throwing against "the administration" going on at all, nor any actions of "the administration", I could change the word "admins" with "individuals" if that would make some people feel more comfortable.

I fail to see why some feel the need to put the two in different categories, in this case, only people with the forum rank of "admin" or above has access to post in these boards, and as such "admins" is the word I used... "admins" in this case does in no way refer to "the administration". We're all players one way or the other.

I may be blunt, but I mean the best.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Klaus on August 24, 2012, 02:40:33 am
I think this idea should be integrated on every servers unban request section, not just SAMP's.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Richard. on August 24, 2012, 01:23:36 pm
Meh...
Or it should just stay the same but managers/high ranked become more strict and not let admins post if they have nothing to do with it other than trying to keep him banned, like some admins do.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Sweeper on August 24, 2012, 01:47:01 pm
Highly supported.

Some administrators are just posting in unban requests to shit on the players, even though they were not involved in the situation. Even teamspeak administrators are posting in unban requests.
Title: Re: SAMP Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Dolfagr on August 24, 2012, 01:51:53 pm
Very good idea indeed. Only banning admin should partake in the appeal, and only if requested for confirmation. Managers can also view punishment records, so there is no need for a random Admin to post it, which can spark an argument.

 Lastly I believe Management is highly capable and trained in handling the Unban appeals and require no assistance, as the Adminstration's work is enforcing the rules and not handling Unban appeals.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Abraham on August 24, 2012, 02:22:01 pm
I think this idea should be integrated on every servers unban request section, not just SAMP's.
True, as an SAMP player I often forget about the other servers, haha.
Topic name changed.

Or it should just stay the same but managers/high ranked become more strict and not let admins post if they have nothing to do with it other than trying to keep him banned, like some admins do.
Managers+ have a lot of things to do as is and probably doesn't want to spend time being "strict" towards people in unban requests, as such it'd be easier if a webmaster simply changed the access rights.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: SugarD on August 24, 2012, 05:27:53 pm
Very good idea indeed. Only banning admin should partake in the appeal, and only if requested for confirmation. Managers can also view punishment records, so there is no need for a random Admin to post it, which can spark an argument.

 Lastly I believe Management is highly capable and trained in handling the Unban appeals and require no assistance, as the Adminstration's work is enforcing the rules and not handling Unban appeals.
I have to agree with this. Managers are responsible for processing the requests anyway, and if they need information from an Administrator, or the Administrator needs to give a statement to the user, it's not hard for the Manager to just contact the Administrator in question for said info.

As for changing the rights, it should be as simple as one little permissions setting change on each unban request board, assuming mods aren't responsible for the rights.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: JDC on August 24, 2012, 05:33:45 pm
The proposal would mean that it would be impossible for Managers and Administrators to inherit all their permissions from the same group (and for all separate groups involved to have separate set permissions), since board permissions work based on permission sets and not membergroups.

In short, this will destroy any uniform inherited permissions structure.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: SugarD on August 24, 2012, 05:39:37 pm
The proposal would mean that it would be impossible for Managers and Administrators to inherit all their permissions from the same group (and for all separate groups involved to have separate set permissions), since board permissions work based on permission sets and not membergroups.

In short, this will destroy any uniform inherited permissions structure.
Not really. Neither one of those are linked between Managers and Administrators, and secondly, board permissions don't work on permission sets...they work on board permissions themselves. They are completely separate from general permissions of membergroups, as you pointed out, but they use set board profiles. A board profile can have completely different settings for all membergroups on any given profile.

Administrators and Managers do not use the same permission sets. Just like ARPD Forums, each servers' Administrator and Manager ranks inherit from a "permission set" created for each rank separately. For example:

__Administrator
 LU Administrator
 MTA:VC Administrator
 VC:MP Administrator
 MTA:SA Administrator
 SA:MP Administrator
 IV:MP Administrator
__Manager
 LU Manager
 MTA:VC Manager
 VC:MP Manager
...And so on.

That would not conflict with this idea in any possible way, nor would it matter regardless of any Manager group actually was inheriting from a lower rank permission set as they would simply just need Board Moderator rights until the rank was promoted, which most Managers already have regardless.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: diddeh on August 24, 2012, 05:42:45 pm
Supported. I don't think that moderators /  administrators from other divisions (sa:mp, mta, stunt etc) should be posting around in other divisions than the one they are hired in (like, stunt mod posting in samp unban) since that is clearly just abuse.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: SugarD on August 24, 2012, 05:44:23 pm
Supported. I don't think that moderators /  administrators from other divisions (sa:mp, mta, stunt etc) should be posting around in other divisions than the one they are hired in (like, stunt mod posting in samp unban) since that is clearly just abuse.
Yes, this too. It's actually already disallowed, but it's one of those commonly unwritten rules, and the permissions of the boards still physically allow it, so it becomes an issue to those who don't know or forget that it's still disallowed.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: JDC on August 24, 2012, 05:50:18 pm
Not really. Neither one of those are linked between Managers and Administrators, and secondly, board permissions don't work on permission sets...they work on board permissions themselves. They are completely separate from general permissions of membergroups, as you pointed out, but they use set board profiles. A board profile can have completely different settings for all membergroups on any given profile.

Administrators and Managers do not use the same permission sets. Just like ARPD Forums, each servers' Administrator and Manager ranks inherit from a "permission set" created for each rank separately. For example:

__Administrator
 LU Administrator
 MTA:VC Administrator
 VC:MP Administrator
 MTA:SA Administrator
 SA:MP Administrator
 IV:MP Administrator
__Manager
 LU Manager
 MTA:VC Manager
 VC:MP Manager
...And so on.

That would not conflict with this idea in any possible way, nor would it matter regardless of any Manager group actually was inheriting from a lower rank permission set as they would simply just need Board Moderator rights until the rank was promoted, which most Managers already have regardless.

I did not mean that Administrators and Managers use the same group, but that the different ranks use their own inherited membergroups (_Administrator and _Manager). Apologies for my poor phrasing.

If you will restrict LU Administrators from posting in SA:MP Unban Requests through board permissions, then SA:MP Administrators will be forbidden as well since they also inherit their permissions from _Administrator, also used by the LU membergroup.

To allow Administrators of Server A to post in board A while disallowing Administrators of Server B would mean that Server A and B administrators cannot inherit their permissions from the same group.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Abraham on August 24, 2012, 05:53:41 pm
I did not mean that Administrators and Managers use the same group, but that the different ranks use their own inherited membergroups (_Administrator and _Manager). Apologies for my poor phrasing.

If you will restrict LU Administrators from posting in SA:MP Unban Requests through board permissions, then SA:MP Administrators will be forbidden as well since they also inherit their permissions from _Administrator, also used by the LU membergroup.

To allow Administrators of Server A to post in board A while disallowing Administrators of Server B would mean that Server A and B administrators cannot inherit their permissions from the same group.
Did you even bother reading the idea?

Please restrict the access to unban requests to managers only.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: JDC on August 24, 2012, 05:57:05 pm
Did you even bother reading the idea?

If you will restrict Server A boards so that only Server A Managers can post in them, the same thing as I described above will happen, except replacing _Administrator with _Manager.

I was giving the description of how inherited permission system in SMF works, not the full rebuttal for the idea.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Abraham on August 24, 2012, 06:00:36 pm
If you will restrict Server A boards so that only Server A Managers can post in them, the same thing as I described above will happen, except replacing _Administrator with _Manager.
That was not the idea posted, again, did you read the topic?


I was giving the description of how inherited permission system in SMF works, not the full rebuttal for the idea.
Instead of arguing with you, I'll let you yourself do the work for me.

The proposal would mean that it would be impossible for Managers and Administrators to inherit all their permissions from the same group (and for all separate groups involved to have separate set permissions), since board permissions work based on permission sets and not membergroups.

In short, this will destroy any uniform inherited permissions structure.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: JDC on August 24, 2012, 06:02:30 pm
The response was given due to the repeated remarks in the topic that Server A unban requests should only allow Server A staff to post.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Abraham on August 24, 2012, 06:04:35 pm
The response was given due to the repeated remarks in the topic that Server A unban requests should only allow Server A staff to post.
The "repeated remarks" in question was made after your post. (Also it was ONE remark, not several.)

Just stop dude...
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: JDC on August 24, 2012, 06:06:31 pm
Just stop dude...

Because the remarks in question deviated from the original proposed idea or simply because you cannot handle people opposing your idea?
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Abraham on August 24, 2012, 06:11:11 pm
Because the remarks in question deviated from the original proposed idea or simply because you cannot handle people opposing your idea?
The "repeated remarks" in question was made after your post. (Also it was ONE remark, not several.)

I'm asking you to stop because you're digging yourself a hole you can't climb out of.

I have no problem with people opposing my idea, you're not the first (again, did you read the topic?).
Also you've not given any concrete reasons as to why you would be opposed to it, rather you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: JDC on August 24, 2012, 06:14:56 pm
rather you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
Exactly. I am not arguing to provoke, blackpaint, or destroy.

There is nothing to lose in seeing things from more and more perspectives, after all... :devroll:
Title: Re: Unban requests boards, restrict them.
Post by: Gandalf on August 24, 2012, 06:18:56 pm
Every admin should read the post regarding this on the main admin forum.
With that for now the topic is closed, if a new topic is deemed necessary in time please do not hesitate to create one.
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