Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => San Andreas - Capital Building => SA:MP - Business & Government => SA Capital Building Archive => Topic started by: [Rstar]Paul on January 28, 2013, 11:34:40 pm

Title: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on January 28, 2013, 11:34:40 pm
Dear policing citizens of the United States of Argonath,

Due to several casualties initiated by the law enforcement members of the state, we would like to enforce the usage of Mulholland Intersection road to be for incoming traffic ONLY.
It doesn't matter if you have a siren or a whale stuck into your vehicle. Despite the priority of the incident, it is always required for you to use the right road.

Lately, the fault comes from us for using the incorrect intersection and causing many deaths upon our hands.

Please remind your friendly units to follow this order from now on wards as we are here to enforce protection in the roads at all times. It is a clearly high priority.
If you happen to ignore or just plan to use it with clear intentions, then you may face warnings, tickets or even a copban if you continuously do it. It may be your lucky day if you happen to not be caught doing it.

While you at it... pay attention to your speed gauge as we are here to enforce the speed limits and not disobey them ourselves.
The penalties are the same as the wrong intersection by-pass.

There should be no excuse from now on. So if your not willing to change your way of policing, then we will change the way you police. Otherwise, you may be considered as a threat to the citizens.

Signed,
Chief of Police
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2enlyjp.png)
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Zaila on January 28, 2013, 11:39:27 pm
It doesn't matter if you have a siren or a whale stuck into your vehicle.

Sorry but...

What about if i have a dolphin or turtle?

:D
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Teddy on January 28, 2013, 11:43:16 pm
Sorry but...

What about if i have a dolphin or turtle?

:D

Shark?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: KhornateMonkey on January 28, 2013, 11:44:00 pm
The ARA is pleased  :D
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Morais on January 28, 2013, 11:44:19 pm
no... no... people will still use wrong ramp...
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Jamba on January 28, 2013, 11:45:02 pm
Agreed completely and will announce it to other fellow cops who haven't seen this.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Devin on January 28, 2013, 11:45:37 pm
Shark?

Cow or deer?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: [WS]Jacob on January 28, 2013, 11:46:05 pm
no... no... people will still use wrong ramp...
Not if the FBI launches Operation "Minigun to be fired at people that go up the wrong ramp".
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on January 28, 2013, 11:54:42 pm
Dear policing citizens of the United States of Argonath,

Due to several casualties initiated by the law enforcement members of the state, we would like to enforce the usage of Mulholland Intersection road to be for incoming traffic ONLY.
It doesn't matter if you have a siren or a whale stuck into your vehicle. Despite the priority of the incident, it is always required for you to use the right road.

Lately, the fault comes from us for using the incorrect intersection and causing many deaths upon our hands.

Please remind your friendly units to follow this order from now on wards as we are here to enforce protection in the roads at all times. It is a clearly high priority.
If you happen to ignore or just plan to use it with clear intentions, then you may face warnings, tickets or even a copban if you continuously do it. It may be your lucky day if you happen to not be caught doing it.

While you at it... pay attention to your speed gauge as we are here to enforce the speed limits and not disobey them ourselves.
The penalties are the same as the wrong intersection by-pass.

There should be no excuse from now on. So if your not willing to change your way of policing, then we will change the way you police. Otherwise, you may be considered as a threat to the citizens.

Signed,
Chief of Police
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2enlyjp.png)
Good work Paul. I'm going to back this up as well.

If anyone on Fire Duty is caught using the wrong ramp, they are subject to disciplinary and legal actions too. I encourage any Police Officers witnessing such to immediately handle the situation. If the Firefighter is Code 3 to a call, it is still not considered an excuse to use the wrong ramp. If they are not, you should stop them immediately and deal with them as such too. Anyone is also free to report such incidents on the ARFD Forums (http://arfd.argonathrpg.com/forum/), regardless of whether Police Officers have handled it or not. I encourage it. Just like the PD, the FD discourages illegal activities and dangerous actions.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on January 29, 2013, 12:02:15 am
If I'm chasing a suspect and am directly behind him, and if he decides to go up the wrong ramp, let him pretty much go, or follow him? There's already a car going up, so damage is already done, no sense in going to the other ramp, and risk losing him, is there?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on January 29, 2013, 12:08:32 am
If I'm chasing a suspect and am directly behind him, and if he decides to go up the wrong ramp, let him pretty much go, or follow him? There's already a car going up, so damage is already done, no sense in going to the other ramp, and risk losing him, is there?
Personally I would continue to chase him only if it's safe to do so, but that generally applies to nearly all the off-road/wrong-way pursuits.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Mikal on January 29, 2013, 04:10:54 pm
To be honest I think we should get North Korea to place some mines at Mullholland Intersection, they're good with mines.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on January 30, 2013, 12:26:52 am
To be honest I think we should get North Korea to place some mines at Mullholland Intersection, they're good with mines.
LOL...
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: AK47 on January 30, 2013, 12:31:20 am
If I'm chasing a suspect and am directly behind him, and if he decides to go up the wrong ramp, let him pretty much go, or follow him? There's already a car going up, so damage is already done, no sense in going to the other ramp, and risk losing him, is there?

If ARA is ticketing every fucking car that uses the wrong ramp, then a straight copban on the cops that does the same thing.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on January 30, 2013, 12:36:52 am
If ARA is ticketing every f**king car that uses the wrong ramp, then a straight copban on the cops that does the same thing.
If police are breaking the law, then "firing" them through a copban/firing from SA:MP SAPD would cover their job-related punishment, but fining them additionally also covers their civilian aspect of it. I am totally for both punishments being issued if they have been warned and continue to use the wrong ramp.

Same goes for Firefighters, Medics, and all emergency services/government agencies too.

No one is above the law. Not even those who enforce it.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Rusty on January 30, 2013, 12:43:08 am
What ever happened the object that was on the left ramp, it hindered those who went up the left ramp .. smashed up their vehicle or even flipped it. 
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on January 30, 2013, 01:05:54 am
What ever happened the object that was on the left ramp, it hindered those who went up the left ramp .. smashed up their vehicle or even flipped it. 
What object? o.0
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Teddy on January 30, 2013, 01:10:07 am
I don't see the debate here actually.

If a police officer, federal agent or civillian is using the wrong ramp, or side of road they are breaking the law. Regardless of Code 3. Nobody is above the law. Even if Gandalf is using the wrong ramp! Give them a ticket!!!!
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on January 30, 2013, 01:19:56 am
I don't see the debate here actually.

If a police officer, federal agent or civillian is using the wrong ramp, or side of road they are breaking the law. Regardless of Code 3. Nobody is above the law. Even if Gandalf is using the wrong ramp! Give them a ticket!!!!
Agreed.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Lazee on January 30, 2013, 07:29:29 pm
I don't see the debate here actually.

If a police officer, federal agent or civillian is using the wrong ramp, or side of road they are breaking the law. Regardless of Code 3. Nobody is above the law. Even if Gandalf is using the wrong ramp! Give them a ticket!!!!

^ This...


From what I see, almost 75% of the cops/medics/firemen usually turn on their siren and take the wrong ramp.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Dean. on January 30, 2013, 07:55:56 pm
(http://i48.tinypic.com/4kfkat.png)

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2e3oa61.png)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/d464g.png)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/dqkri9.png)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2d849vp.png)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/j9rpra.png)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/5p0ncl.png)
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Lazee on January 30, 2013, 07:59:07 pm
Told you.


Now sue 'em all.  :D
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on January 30, 2013, 10:15:08 pm
Afrojack_CorlerT is not in SA:MP SAFD, so feel free to ticket/sue him as you feel necessary.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Mikal on January 31, 2013, 01:55:17 am
Afrojack_CorlerT is not in SA:MP SAFD, so feel free to ticket/sue him as you feel necessary.
He could ticket/sue him anyways.. :roll:
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on January 31, 2013, 02:01:45 am
He could ticket/sue him anyways.. :roll:
You're missing the point...
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 01, 2013, 10:26:54 pm
Before reporting them straight away, I request that you should inform the violator of this rule and to see if they are aware of it.
If they are, proceed. If they are not - make sure they read this notice. We require everyone to follow this rule.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Jamba on February 03, 2013, 02:15:19 am
Jamba lmao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql_GYdc3WOQ#)

Credits to Conk for making this video. It was not a set up. This traffic law is approved by the Feds  :alert" :D
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 03, 2013, 09:52:53 am
From: Mulholland Intersection 666 Wrong Ramp Drive
To: San Andreas Police Department





Name: Tinmothy Manners (TinMan)
Position: Protector of Mulholland Intersection
Number: 1174




(http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk392/Lmotoole/MulhollandIntersectionOfficial_zps13e6564d.jpg)
         Chief Paul of San Andreas Police Department, Leader Khornate Monkey of Argonath Road Administration, and members who have served Mulholland Intersection Patrol, without any of your support, the Mulholland Intersection wouldn't have achieved or accomplished the safety of our citizens. This is the time of 2013 we are finally becoming smarter anticipating a better future to the safety of our fellow citizens of Argonath. This is the time when we are stepping up catching the corrupt officers who think they are above the law. And this is the time when we are finally going to have to step up stopping every civilian or suspect who chooses to use the wrong ramp.

         After three years of working hard at the Mulholland Intersection, we are going to work harder now than in the past working long hard shifts pulling people left and right giving them fines of 250 dollars and a possible removal of their licenses. The cops who choose the wrongful deadly decision will now be reported to the San Andreas Police Department and action will now be taken. However, under certain circumstances I do see that some officers do have the authority to breach the wrong ramp only on one stipulation and that is during a pursuit or the act of pulling someone over for using the wrong ramp. Other than that, responding to calls that take place away from Mulholland Intersection; 207's, robberies, motor vehicle accidents, and pursuits, there is no reason to breach the wrong ramp.

         In 2010, I did an experiment on how many seconds it takes to use the correct and wrong ramp. Of course, the wrong ramp was the fastest only by 3 seconds and, yes, it may change an outcome of a scene, but you have to take in consideration the risk of hitting another vehicle head on and possible killing yourself and other people. In fact, using lights and sirens up the wrong ramp has been debated in the past but now under Chief Paul's decision and orders you must use the correct ramp at all times. Again, I'd like to thank you Chief Paul for stepping up and enforcing the law further and that is what exactly needed to happen.

        Another person who I give a big thanks is the Leader Khornate Monkey of the Argonath Road Administration, he has put a lot of his own personal time and effort catching people using the wrong ramp. He has also taken people to court for the violation and reported officers to the San Andreas Police Department. Without his help, the Mulholland Intersection issue would have not been so much publicized here recently without his hard work prosecuting and scaring the shit out of people by getting their licenses revoked. You have done a great job and I give you some of the credit for Chief Paul ordering these new rules. In addition, I was just the initial cause and brought the attention to the Argonath civilians and the San Andreas Police Department, but I had never prosecuted anybody through the court systems or never reported an officer for violating the wrong ramp,  but I have killed a FBI Director Chase Greggor by running him over with a dumper.  (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMp2l5_367E") Any how, the reason is judging whether an officer used the wrong ramp correctly because I never knew if they had lights and sirens responding Code 3 to a scene. It was always hard to decide whether they were abusing it. Especially, when a citizen sees an officer use the wrong ramp, they only have a split of a second to just even pull over and that is endangerment to public safety. Again, thank you Khornate Monkey for all of your hard work.

       One last group of people who I'd like to thank is the members who have served to keep the Mulholland Intersection peaceful at times from wrong rampers. It doesn't matter what the race of your police skin or the department you are in as long as we keep the Mulholland Interseciton protected from all the violators. We are all going to have to finally step up and fight for our domestic tranquility and to gain peace under our nation. With that said, this is the best start of making our nation perfect by following traffic laws.

       Mulholland Intersection is the heart of San Andreas! Without the Mulholland Intersection, you would have to take a detour to Las Venturas and Las Santos, and that's if Mulholland Intersection gets blown up by terrorist it would be the greatest inconvenience of all times. Its is under our duty as officers to serve and protect the citizens of Argonath. Lets set a good example for the citizens by using the wrong ramp and if a cop violates it will make them a hypocrite, have bad notoriety, and will make you look like you are a corrupt officer because, as officers, we are not above the law. Lets just hope a terrorist never explode us and corrupt officers who think they are above the law. It is now the future lets us all rise up, listen and respect our command staff, and make the whole Argonath safe and secured!

       I, protector Tinmothy Manners (TinMan), approve these messages and always will be officially protecting but this time I am going to be stricter than I have in my past. If I see anybody I don't care who you are the president or prime minister of Argonath, the director of FBI, commander and chief of ARPD, and any of my fellow friends, you will be reported and action will be taken. I am finally sick and tired of seeing these violators and they will be caught and possible taken to jail for endangerment of public safety (if they almost hit someone head on). Whatever you think, just don't even test me in thinking you'll get away because you won't. Good luck to those wrong ramp violators they will be caught!



Signed,
Protector of Mulholland Intersection,
Tinmothy Manners
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Mikal on February 03, 2013, 03:15:19 pm
He who uses wrong ramp needs to be stripped of their license and vehicles! Anyone who disagree's with ARA/VOSA's work can just go suck a fish.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 04, 2013, 11:01:55 am
Well, unless I see a document signed by the upper government of the States of Argonath, San Andreas, that states an agency who's primary role is or should be maintaining the roads are to also maintain road laws and enforce them, I disagree with the work they do. The proper course of action should instead be arranging a traffic division of the ARPD. Civilians enforcing the law is just plain wrong. They're civilians. I mean, what's next, driving schools uniting in order to patrol the streets, revoking licenses of anyone who drives in the wrong lane? ATC calling in Hydras on anyone who doesn't report in landing and taking off? CMB revoking passports if people break rules?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 04, 2013, 11:07:12 am
Well, unless I see a document signed by the upper government of the States of Argonath, San Andreas, that states an agency who's primary role is or should be maintaining the roads are to also maintain road laws and enforce them, I disagree with the work they do. The proper course of action should instead be arranging a traffic division of the ARPD. Civilians enforcing the law is just plain wrong. They're civilians. I mean, what's next, driving schools uniting in order to patrol the streets, revoking licenses of anyone who drives in the wrong lane? ATC calling in Hydras on anyone who doesn't report in landing and taking off? CMB revoking passports if people break rules?

Jaaskaa will be making court cases I believe for those who decide to stalk people at this intersection.

At the moment... I disagree that citizens should be stalking people at this intersection. Doesn't matter if your ARA or god. We never requested security or people to waste their time recording.
Leave it to the designated people to take care of it - The trafficking divisions in the ARPD.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 04, 2013, 03:43:43 pm
Jaaskaa will be making court cases I believe for those who decide to stalk people at this intersection.
Good to hear that.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: KhornateMonkey on February 04, 2013, 04:27:02 pm
Well, unless I see a document signed by the upper government of the States of Argonath, San Andreas, that states an agency who's primary role is or should be maintaining the roads are to also maintain road laws and enforce them, I disagree with the work they do. The proper course of action should instead be arranging a traffic division of the ARPD. Civilians enforcing the law is just plain wrong. They're civilians. I mean, what's next, driving schools uniting in order to patrol the streets, revoking licenses of anyone who drives in the wrong lane? ATC calling in Hydras on anyone who doesn't report in landing and taking off? CMB revoking passports if people break rules?

Oh god, soon we'll have judges using the wrong ramp as well! Oh, wait

Jaaskaa will be making court cases I believe for those who decide to stalk people at this intersection.

At the moment... I disagree that citizens should be stalking people at this intersection. Doesn't matter if your ARA or god. We never requested security or people to waste their time recording.
Leave it to the designated people to take care of it - The trafficking divisions in the ARPD.

Okay, we'll stop preventing crime on our roads(even though ever since we started suing people, the amount of drivers taking the wrong ramp has decreased). Hopefully your trafficking divisions will do an even better job that what we're doing.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 04, 2013, 08:12:32 pm
You're free to continue protecting the Mulholland as a police officer. Maybe get some roleplay out of it, what's happened here is people getting punished without any real interaction. You post a case, it gets approved, they lose a license.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: KhornateMonkey on February 04, 2013, 08:16:00 pm
You post a case, it gets approved, they lose a license.

And that is what encourages them to not take the wrong ramp.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Conk on February 04, 2013, 08:20:18 pm
And that is what encourages them to not take the wrong ramp.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Mikal on February 04, 2013, 08:21:52 pm
And that is what encourages them to not take the wrong ramp.
True that!
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 04, 2013, 08:22:34 pm
And that is what encourages them to not take the wrong ramp.
And discourages roleplay. There was a similar solution, just put a huge object in the middle of the ramp.

I mean, to what ends must we go that we replace police officers with objects and court cases?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Ben. on February 04, 2013, 08:46:29 pm
I take it this goes for ARPD Officers as well as SAPD, if Jaaskaa is involved.
Due to this, I also naturally assume this also stands for the FBI, as Jasskaa is indeed the ARPD Commissioner, of which the FBI is a member of.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 04, 2013, 08:53:25 pm
I take it this goes for ARPD Officers as well as SAPD, if Jaaskaa is involved.
Due to this, I also naturally assume this also stands for the FBI, as Jasskaa is indeed the ARPD Commissioner, of which the FBI is a member of.
Jaaskaa is getting involved to stop the stalking by civilians, not patrolling the area of Law Enforcement, which the FBI wouldn't do anyway. :p
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Conk on February 04, 2013, 10:20:30 pm
which the FBI wouldn't do anyway. :p

Funny thing, I always have an agent join me when I'm "stalking" and "spying" on people. Or when i'm being a "vigilante" or "impersonating law enforcement".

Names will not be released.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 04, 2013, 10:31:47 pm
Funny thing, I always have an agent join me when I'm "stalking" and "spying" on people. Or when i'm being a "vigilante" or "impersonating law enforcement".

Names will not be released.
Someone's getting paranoid.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Marcel on February 04, 2013, 10:40:17 pm
Someone's getting paranoid.
Someone is making up breaches of the law..
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 04, 2013, 10:44:14 pm
Someone is making up breaches of the law..
I'll let the judges decide on that, though I'm not the only one who agrees that this is unlawful. :)
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Mikal on February 04, 2013, 11:08:18 pm
And discourages roleplay. There was a similar solution, just put a huge object in the middle of the ramp.

I mean, to what ends must we go that we replace police officers with objects and court cases?
Truthfuly, not aiming this at all players, but most people when you try to pull them over will just speed off before you can suspect them, atleast this way they have no way of denying what they did wrong and/or evading punishment.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Salvatore_Zambino on February 04, 2013, 11:16:22 pm
Not to sound like an asshole or anything, but I doubt people will start using the right ramp. Unless something drastic happens, like somebody pays the people who do go up the right ramp $1k :3
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 05, 2013, 01:19:39 am
You're free to continue protecting the Mulholland as a police officer. Maybe get some roleplay out of it, what's happened here is people getting punished without any real interaction. You post a case, it gets approved, they lose a license.
Well, unless I see a document signed by the upper government of the States of Argonath, San Andreas, that states an agency who's primary role is or should be maintaining the roads are to also maintain road laws and enforce them, I disagree with the work they do. The proper course of action should instead be arranging a traffic division of the ARPD. Civilians enforcing the law is just plain wrong. They're civilians. I mean, what's next, driving schools uniting in order to patrol the streets, revoking licenses of anyone who drives in the wrong lane? ATC calling in Hydras on anyone who doesn't report in landing and taking off? CMB revoking passports if people break rules?

Someone is just mad because they were caught using the wrong ramp at Mulholland Intersection breaking the law! It's simple. Don't use the wrong ramp unless you have probable cause to breech it if ON Law Enforcement duty or at all. If you have probable cause you better provide some evidence why you breached it. In addition, don't be driving around like a baboon acting like its your first time behind the wheel. You were caught utilizing the wrong ramp, and therefore all I see is that you are trying to fight this through courts to get yourself out of trouble. Enough said.

Chief_Hardy || VOSA Case #006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIGGaUFNQqk#)

And there is proof.

As being the protector of Mulholland Intersection, I don't see how it possible that anybody is NOT allowed the right to record any public place is Argonath. There is no law limiting the right of recording. The only law that would be against recording is privacy, but since the Mulholland Intersection is public place that would be thrown out of the window. I believe that anybody can sit anywhere and use a cam recorder. For those citizens who are fighting against the Vehicle and Operative Services Agency and Argonath Road Administration are those citizens who do not have any integrity so their employers/bosses better take another look because you may have someone who can't follow rules while you are gone. What I am saying is that, it's simple do things what is right because there is someone always watching you.

For example. back in July 24, 2010, I made a post about someone is all ways watching you.

http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=11958.msg91968#msg91968 (http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=11958.msg91968#msg91968)
After the day I quit ArgonathRPG, I enjoyed to write and study more things. For the last few days, I been outside and I enjoy the tall grass and trees. I can go outside relax by fishing, hunting, and ride my bike. I find it better to be alone without any distractions, but you are never alone. There is someone all ways watching you. It can be the person upstairs, or another person, or maybe an animal.  We are never alone in this world. Now in San Andreas Multiplayer anything that we do it will haunt you in the future. It can be in a good way or maybe in a bad way.

Back then when I was a Freecop trying to apply for ARPD. I had this crazy idea that I thought it would be better for me to get an Officer rank, soon. I had a friend named Tommy White, we use to be good friends but I never really liked his attitude. One day over Teamspeak, we were just talking and I had this good idea. I never checked who else was inside the channel because I didn’t know too many people anyway. I asked him do you want to get officer rank fast. He said that he wanted to and told me to say what it is. So I told him that we should grow weed on duty to get officer rank, it will help us to get promoted as well especially if we have at least 200 grams of weed. He said that Okay but I hope we don’t get busted. We started out at the LSPD, and managed to find a helicopter that could take us to each weed field. Tommy and I started at Bone County then to Flint then to Red county. Not knowing that someone was watching us and over hearing our conversation. At our last stop before we were busted, Tommy had planted the weed and we saw a civilian darting our way. It was an Under Cover cop. We took off as fast as we can then F.B.I came out of nowhere, so we had to stop or else it was too suspicious that we did plant weed. In the end, we were sentence for 120 days in jail and my application wasn’t rejected it was on hold for 1 month. Now today, I still have people private messaging me about that situation which happened about 5 months ago. Also, I’ve also been harassed about it. Anyway, I hope that no one grows weed on duty.

There was another time I was at Flint County heading to the weed field lights and sirens. Jimmy bowling private messaged me that it was Code 4/14. I was just wondering how he knew that I was responding to the scene. I didn’t report it on radio either. All he did was flown over me with a helicopter and I didn’t even know it.

One day, my partner and I were patrolling Los Santos. My partner got a phone call from a person. That person asked my partner if he wanted to buy some weed. My partner said no and we stayed on long enough and got location. Then my partner had to go, so it was just me in the driver’s seat. When I got close to the person that called my partner there was another man in his vehicle. They were driving North Bound to Red county on 425 East which is at East Beach. I had the suspicion that he was trying to sell weed. The passenger of the car stepped out of the car so I stopped. He said that the suspect stole my car. I was wrong on the suspicion, but I had a good probable cause to go after him. I stepped up to respond with lights and sirens. The suspect was driving faster now because he knew he was in trouble for Grand Theft Auto. The pursuit only lasted about 2 minutes and the suspect surrendered. I told them that he was under arrest for Grand Theft Auto of a Stolen Vehicle, Selling Weed, and Evading. The suspect was like how you know. Well, I can figure things out easily. I didn’t even have to frisk him and he handed the weed over. The result was only for 120 days because he complied. The owner of the stolen car was mad so we said that the suspect will have to pay for damages. Then he was happy and was taken home.

My point is that there is always someone watching you whether you are neither on duty nor off duty. If you are one of those cops that are growing weed, being corrupted, or doing something inappropriate, you will more than likely be caught. You may not know that that person was watching you. It is the only matter of time, luck, and risk. Whenever I was taking a Hunter Ed course the Law Enforcement agency stated that there is all ways someone watching you even when I am not there. Just take this information here and understand it.
It doesn’t matter if you still watch your surroundings someone is all ways watching.
I hope that information isn’t to be used in the corrupt way under the SAPD/ARPD Laws. It should just be helpful under the hands of cops that if you do something stupid then you’ll probably hear it later like I did by growing weed on duty a long time ago.

Signed,
Retired Sr. Officer TinMan

*If you have any stories like this please share then and we can always discuss them.

If you read my article you find some old baggage on me that is already wiped away, however, I learned my lesson that someone is always watching so do things that is right and you won't ever have any problems. That is same for the Mulholland Intersection, if you don't want to be caught using the wrong ramp, my advise to you is just never do it at all because someone is always watching you!
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 05, 2013, 02:13:32 am
All I see there is me reversing, and if it'd been let continue, you'd see me coming right back down. I don't fear a court case where I'm being prosecuted of using reverse.

Anyway, it's got nothing to do with that. It's about making sure people feel safe, that they're not being spied on all the time. If you insist on 'protecting mulholland', do it on /duty and follow the correct procedure. Citizens of Argonath should not be driven to fear of people spying on them.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 05, 2013, 04:40:06 am
But you still broke the law. Also, in the video, you reversed half way up the ramp and thats proof.
Anyway, it's got nothing to do with that. It's about making sure people feel safe, that they're not being spied on all the time. If you insist on 'protecting mulholland', do it on /duty and follow the correct procedure. Citizens of Argonath should not be driven to fear of people spying on them.


(http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk392/Lmotoole/nwatch_zpsf50fd6b4.jpg)
-It's about making sure people are safe driving down the off ramp or off ramps.
-If citizens follow the law at the Mulholland Intersection they should not have to worry or fear about anything.
-"Citizens of Argonath" should also make it safe for citizens to be safe driving down the off ramp into Los Santos, San Andreas

Mr. Pingster, whats your definition of spying?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: chichibung on February 05, 2013, 05:27:36 am
I Cant see any RP in this topic, because, if you just do a court case, how will you know the person going the wrong ramp name? RP RP RP, be a cop, pull him over.

 :ps:im lazy to read the whole topic so im not sure what this is about :D
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 05, 2013, 05:40:51 am
how will you know the person going the wrong ramp name?

Good question, the answer is that its Argonath, a very lite roleplay server that doesn't support OOC and IC, so anyone has the ability to see someones name tag during a roleplay. Therefore, it makes these organizations allowed to sue people in court. However, in there roleplay there reason could be by checking the person license plates or something along the lines there.   
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Jcstodds on February 05, 2013, 06:00:54 am
  If I am in the bigger vehicle, the side of the road I am driving on is the correct side of the road to drive on.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: newguy on February 05, 2013, 06:16:13 am
I've been driving on the wrong ramp for days. What's going to stop me from doing that again?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 05, 2013, 06:19:28 am
I've been driving on the wrong ramp for days. What's going to stop me from doing that again?
How about losing your license and getting a big fat fine for every time you did it?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Brian on February 05, 2013, 06:25:20 am
v. spied (spd), spy·ing, spies (spz)
v.tr.
1. To observe secretly with hostile intent.


I dont see this being nice if you cannot even drive around your own city being captured with a camera all the time, just go on cop duty :)
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: KhornateMonkey on February 05, 2013, 09:52:23 am
v. spied (spd), spy·ing, spies (spz)
v.tr.
1. To observe secretly with hostile intent.

ARA and VOSA vehicles are highly visible, a bright sky blue. We're aren't there to secretly hide and take people to court. We park our vehicles in clear view so that it deters people from using the wrong ramp.

I dont see this being nice if you cannot even drive around your own city being captured with a camera all the time, just go on cop duty :)

Maybe I'm not the one you should be worried about when "being captured with a camera all the time".

CCTV camera #1 at LSPD (http://i49.tinypic.com/mu8shl.jpg)
CCTV camera #2 at LSPD (http://i47.tinypic.com/2zyakci.jpg)
CCTV camera #3 at LS City hall, looking over Pershing Square (http://i47.tinypic.com/2ijpvlk.jpg)
CCTV camera #4 at Idlewood, looking over GS9 (http://i47.tinypic.com/2mr73tl.jpg)
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 05, 2013, 10:33:54 am
But you still broke the law. Also, in the video, you reversed half way up the ramp and thats proof.
I also drive a bus that's hard to turn around, so I sometimes reverse for several blocks. Just because it's a ramp doesn't affect anything as far as the law is concerned, I was reversing in my lane of travel. If that were to be confirmed as law break by the court of law, it would set up a precedent case for anyone wishing to pull over people for going into reverse.


Also, Jcs, as always, has some wise words.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Mikal on February 05, 2013, 03:22:17 pm
I dont see this being nice if you cannot even drive around your own city being captured with a camera all the time, just go on cop duty :)
London isnt the city for you then. :lol:
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 06, 2013, 01:00:21 am
I also drive a bus that's hard to turn around, so I sometimes reverse for several blocks. Just because it's a ramp doesn't affect anything as far as the law is concerned, I was reversing in my lane of travel. If that were to be confirmed as law break by the court of law, it would set up a precedent case for anyone wishing to pull over people for going into reverse.


Also, Jcs, as always, has some wise words.

You were driving a two-door sports car and the correct way to turn around wouldn't be backing up on the road to turn around. Hell, you could have hit an oncoming car! The best way if you want to turn around is drive completely down the off ramp into Los Santos. Once in Los Santos, pull into a parking lot, make a u-turn in the parking lot, and head your way back to Mulholland Intersection up the on-ramp onto the LS-LV Highway.

If the civil court makes your case valid of reversing in lane, that would mean that everyone has the legal right to reverse all the way to their designation, so come on Argonath civilians lets start driving backwards for now on because its allowed.  :rules:


Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Nathan_Alexandrov on February 06, 2013, 01:21:03 am
Ok I got a question for you all, how come Mulholland Intersection is SO important? What about every other junction in San Andreas? See I've got the IRL version of you down the road from me, keeps people from going over the speed limit, ya know what happened? Car crashes on alternate routes started to increase, all you are doing is A. Annoying people B. Diverting them, if it's something I've learned over the years traffic enforcement only helps the area it's in, in San Andreas you can't cover the whole area, hence your operation is useless. Well.. Not useless, you're just teaching lawbreakers to be smart.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 06, 2013, 01:53:27 am
Ok I got a question for you all, how come Mulholland Intersection is SO important? What about every other junction in San Andreas? See I've got the IRL version of you down the road from me, keeps people from going over the speed limit, ya know what happened? Car crashes on alternate routes started to increase, all you are doing is A. Annoying people B. Diverting them, if it's something I've learned over the years traffic enforcement only helps the area it's in, in San Andreas you can't cover the whole area, hence your operation is useless. Well.. Not useless, you're just teaching lawbreakers to be smart.
The Mulholland Intersection is being enforced heavily now because it has become a very common issue. Although I agree that all intersections should be watched, this one has gained special attention because even emergency services are misusing it, and there have been a number of accidents and fatalities as a result.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Nathan_Alexandrov on February 06, 2013, 02:00:44 am
It is not that is has become a very common issue, it's the only one that has been noticed, if you park up anywhere in populated LS I bet you'll see round about the same if not more traffic violations. Personally I believe that only reason this has been given specific attention is because of Tinman, originally he was the only police officer to give a shit about the intersection. Since he has become semi-famous due to his role many have tried to follow in his footsteps, unfortunately all in the same spot.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 06, 2013, 02:37:08 am
It is not that is has become a very common issue, it's the only one that has been noticed, if you park up anywhere in populated LS I bet you'll see round about the same if not more traffic violations. Personally I believe that only reason this has been given specific attention is because of Tinman, originally he was the only police officer to give a shit about the intersection. Since he has become semi-famous due to his role many have tried to follow in his footsteps, unfortunately all in the same spot.
Years ago when SATP existed and was able to pull over other cops, there was no traffic-related crime from either police or civilians. That changed when official and unofficial subdivisions of SA:MP SAPD were shut down, and Lieutenants were added with the ability to pull over other cops, and no one else could. Things fell apart then. The problem is that cops are setting a bad example for others, despite their intentions. They need to work on it themselves if they wish to work on it with others too.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 06, 2013, 03:10:50 am
If the civil court makes your case valid of reversing in lane, that would mean that everyone has the legal right to reverse all the way to their designation, so come on Argonath civilians lets start driving backwards for now on because its allowed.  :rules:
It's never been disallowed.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 06, 2013, 03:20:10 am
It's never been disallowed.
They should also keep in mind, though, that there is a difference between driving in reverse, and backing up. :P
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 06, 2013, 03:32:28 am
They should also keep in mind, though, that there is a difference between driving in reverse, and backing up. :P
I know what you mean, though what we have here is an over enthusiastic dude who's only seen a 6 second long video and yelling about road laws against me, Conk made sure he edits the video to only show what he wants to be seen :P

However, I agree with what Nathan is saying, I have no trouble going 220 on any Los Santos street without anyone giving a damn, heck, going 170 and other officers passing me in an infernus, that's always fun :P
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 06, 2013, 03:57:22 am
However, I agree with what Nathan is saying, I have no trouble going 220 on any Los Santos street without anyone giving a damn, heck, going 170 and other officers passing me in an infernus, that's always fun :P
Then I will be sure to file a report against you if you are on-duty, or pull you over for speeding if you aren't. ;)
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 06, 2013, 04:03:11 am
Then I will be sure to file a report against you if you are on-duty, or pull you over for speeding if you aren't. ;)
Psh, you drive alone too much, who'll /speed? :P
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 06, 2013, 04:16:12 am
Psh, you drive alone too much, who'll /speed? :P
It's not hard to see when you're going the speed limit yourself, and a car flies past you at a high rate of speed. That's how sole officers in patrol cars do it in real life too.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 06, 2013, 04:33:35 am
It's not hard to see when you're going the speed limit yourself, and a car flies past you at a high rate of speed. That's how sole officers in patrol cars do it in real life too.
Not RL ^_^
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 06, 2013, 05:13:09 am
It's never been disallowed.

So you are saying that it is allowed legally to drive in reverse or backing up anywhere in San Andreas?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 06, 2013, 06:04:53 am
Not RL ^_^
I think you're missing the point. ;)
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 06, 2013, 06:10:42 am
There's certainly no law or reference to reversing, as long as it does not breach other laws (driving on curb, hitting civilians and so on), it's permitted.


Sugar, my point is that as an officer you're legally required to prove someone is guilty when convicting them, and the only way regarding speeding to do that is with /speed. If you F8 your speed and me being next to you, doesn't mean I'm going your speed. If you fraps, it's not necessarily the same speed either, as FPS lag creates difference between the speed on speedo and the actual speed :P

Plus, it promotes grouping up between officers (which you should be doing anyway, chances of a lone cop taking down a murder suspect or an unco-operative pullover are considerably small) and actively doing something, /speeding people :) An F8 doesn't promote anything.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 06, 2013, 06:13:48 am
There's certainly no law or reference to reversing, as long as it does not breach other laws (driving on curb, hitting civilians and so on), it's permitted.

According to Argonath Consitution
Act III.I: Reckless driving understand any form of driving that could endanger other citizens. Under such circumstances, a police officer is allowed to take necessary actions.

Using the wrong ramp incorrectly like what you did [reversing in lane] could have caused a fatal accident. An on coming car would have to slam on their brakes and therefore that is endangering the lives of other citizens, correct? And If I'm incorrect tell me what gives you the full legal right to reverse up the wrong ramp?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 06, 2013, 07:07:24 am
Sugar, my point is that as an officer you're legally required to prove someone is guilty when convicting them, and the only way regarding speeding to do that is with /speed. If you F8 your speed and me being next to you, doesn't mean I'm going your speed. If you fraps, it's not necessarily the same speed either, as FPS lag creates difference between the speed on speedo and the actual speed :P
Wrong. That is only necessary if there is a court case. Officers witnessing civilians committing crimes are able to suspect/ticket them immediately, depending on the offense and the protocols for them. Argo does not take people to court based on every single crime. Only certain offenses can be taken to court, and they also depend on how the users wish to roleplay them out.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 06, 2013, 07:26:33 am
According to Argonath Consitution
Act III.I: Reckless driving understand any form of driving that could endanger other citizens. Under such circumstances, a police officer is allowed to take necessary actions.

Using the wrong ramp incorrectly like what you did [reversing in lane] could have caused a fatal accident. An on coming car would have to slam on their brakes and therefore that is endangering the lives of other citizens, correct? And If I'm incorrect tell me what gives you the full legal right to reverse up the wrong ramp?
The law, unlike you, doesn't care that it's a wrong ramp at Mulholland Intersection. It's just a road. If you're going 80km/h as you should be (300m from the last local street = city limits), then there wouldn't be any slamming of brakes. As there's no law defining reversing as a crime, that gives me full legal rights to reverse on the road I'm using. Seriously though, let's stop it here, if you want to, we can meet in the court house.

SugarD, back that up with something. If people assume they can cash in on others without any legal proof, they're plain wrong. Think of it this way: You (the officer) can be taken to the courts (with ARPD report first) for fining others without proof, so if you don't have the /speed, you're just going to lose, since you do not have proof. I understand that no one really follows this, and accepts it as it is, but legally, that's an obligation to have proof.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 06, 2013, 07:56:03 am
SugarD, back that up with something. If people assume they can cash in on others without any legal proof, they're plain wrong. Think of it this way: You (the officer) can be taken to the courts (with ARPD report first) for fining others without proof, so if you don't have the /speed, you're just going to lose, since you do not have proof. I understand that no one really follows this, and accepts it as it is, but legally, that's an obligation to have proof.
If an officer unjustly arrests someone without proof, or illegally, people can request an investigation, as well as put in reports to ARPD Forums. It has always been this way.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Nathan_Alexandrov on February 06, 2013, 06:42:18 pm
Wrong. That is only necessary if there is a court case. Officers witnessing civilians committing crimes are able to suspect/ticket them immediately, depending on the offense and the protocols for them. Argo does not take people to court based on every single crime. Only certain offenses can be taken to court, and they also depend on how the users wish to roleplay them out.

So in short police officers can suspect people as they see fit, with no evidence and they are in the right? I'm sorry but that is just corruption waiting to happen. Every citizen should have the legal right to take an officers claim to court regardless.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: [WS]Jacob on February 06, 2013, 11:21:06 pm
"Officers witnessing civilians committing crimes" not just suspecting everyone.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Nathan_Alexandrov on February 07, 2013, 12:18:04 am
"Officers witnessing civilians committing crimes" not just suspecting everyone.

I didn't say everyone, although that seems to happen. The point being is that officers can suspect, jail or potentially kill whoever they want on the sole basis of they do not need evidence to carry out actions..
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 07, 2013, 12:26:51 am
I didn't say everyone, although that seems to happen. The point being is that officers can suspect, jail or potentially kill whoever they want on the sole basis of they do not need evidence to carry out actions..
We also have Lieutenants+ that can suspect corrupt cops, and Senior Officers, (although formerly Sergeants), who can investigate and unsuspect those who have been abused. We also have the server administration and management who can deal with bad players and copban them.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 07, 2013, 01:11:03 am
We also have Lieutenants+ that can suspect corrupt cops, and Senior Officers, (although formerly Sergeants), who can investigate and unsuspect those who have been abused. We also have the server administration and management who can deal with bad players and copban them.
And we also have the constitution that states that if you got no proof, you got an innocent man.

Tell me how is having all these things different from needing proof to pull over/suspect/jail? Going by your reasoning, theoretically, I can ask for investigation every time an officer farts in my way, and if they don't have proof or reason to fart, I'd be let go. So it goes back to needing proof to pull over/suspect/jail/kill/fart. Or am I missing something here?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 07, 2013, 01:18:48 am
The law, unlike you, doesn't care that it's a wrong ramp at Mulholland Intersection. It's just a road. If you're going 80km/h as you should be (300m from the last local street = city limits), then there wouldn't be any slamming of brakes. As there's no law defining reversing as a crime, that gives me full legal rights to reverse on the road I'm using. Seriously though, let's stop it here, if you want to, we can meet in the court house.

The reason why I am protecting the Mulholland Intersection is basically Act III

Quote from: Argonath Consitution
Due to the danger of driving accidents on the roads of our nation, the speed limits are 80 Kilometers an Hour inside cities and town limits, 120 Kilometers an Hour on roads outside of the city and town limits, and there shall be no speed limits on highways, though, driving recklessly, or not driving on the right side of the road is still a punishable offense. Law prescribe a fine of a maximum of 250 dollars for any road infraction. The city limit is defined by an area of 300 meters around the last local street.

What I have under line gives me the constitution power to patrol Mulholland Intersection, and yes reversing in lane is against the law through the constitution act of reckless driving. Okay, thanks I will start writing up tickets for speeders now for driving too fast utilizing the ramps.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 07, 2013, 01:22:14 am
and yes reversing in lane is against the law through the constitution act of reckless driving
That's not said there, don't make things up.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 07, 2013, 03:21:34 am
Constitutions do not directly specify everything.

That's not said there, don't make things up.

So that is why its called an "implied power" by constitution.

Implied means
Quote from: google definition
Are those powers authorized by a legal document (from the Constitution) which, while not stated,...

So if Section III Act III.I: States
Quote from: Argonath Consitution
Reckless driving understand any form of driving that could endanger other citizens. Under such circumstances, a police officer is allowed to take necessary actions.

Hence the part "any form of driving that could endanger other citizens" *cough* *cough* reversing up the wrong ramp is the implied power that the Argonath Constitution gives us.

Therefore, again, it is against the law.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pot3r on February 07, 2013, 03:38:46 am
Ok here it is about the whole "Backing up" Topic... Tip 1 : USE COMMON SENSE.  Ok, Now their are many different situations where you can backup and where you shouldn't back up.. If its on a busy road like mulholland intersection where people are going down that offramp like crazy you should not because you can not swerve in enough time to miss them, but in a cenario where you are like on a side road in Red County you should be able to back up to a certain extent as long as you don't see anybody coming. In the previous cenario about mulholland intersection, Just drive down to the bottom of the ramp and make a... You guessed it :D a U turn. It's easy to do,and it really doesn't take much effort....
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 07, 2013, 03:58:23 am
Hence the part "any form of driving that could endanger other citizens" *cough* *cough* reversing up the wrong ramp is the implied power that the Argonath Constitution gives us.
Well heaven forbid you ever go in reverse with me in sight.


Anyway, as I said, you're free to start a court case. Guess in the meantime people will just offroad up to the highway, as there are no road laws off road.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 07, 2013, 04:26:11 am
Well heaven forbid you ever go in reverse with me in sight.


Guess in the meantime people will just offroad up to the highway, as there are no road laws off road.

Dream on. The problem with offroading up to the LS-LV Highway is the fact that you have to cross over 2 lanes of traffic [again endangering public] to get onto the correct side of the road.

Again, implied by Section III Act III.I.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 07, 2013, 04:53:35 am
Suppose they'll offroad up until they're out of your sight then.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 07, 2013, 06:40:21 am
Suppose they'll offroad up until they're out of your sight then.
It sounds like you are saying its against the law for a civilian to do such of an act, if they have to avoid a law enforcement officer.

Back to the real case.

Suppose you were driving a car down the off ramp from the LS-LV Highway and a car was reversing in lane up the wrong ramp [Going the Opposite Direction] without being able to switch lanes [a car was in the lane next to you] or not enough time to avoid their car, you smashed into the back of their vehicle. I believe that it would be their fault for reckless driving.

I am sure the Chief of Police, Argonath Driving Schools, and citizens of Argonath will say that it is illegal without a doubt.







Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: [Rstar]Paul on February 07, 2013, 06:44:44 am
PM from an individual.

Quote
Is reversing in lane or driving backwards on a road illegal towards the Argonath Constitution? Please answer this on the topic if you'd like to. I'd really want an explanation if it isn't.

Answer:
I'm not the one to decide on this, it goes through the courts. They will state whether it is legal or not.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 07, 2013, 06:58:18 am
Suppose you were driving a car down the off ramp from the LS-LV Highway and a car was reversing in lane up the wrong ramp [Going the Opposite Direction] without being able to switch lanes [a car was in the lane next to you] or not enough time to avoid their car, you smashed into the back of their vehicle. I believe that it would be their fault for reckless driving.
We can each create hypothetical situations all we want, proving each other's points incorrect. Reality is that there are more accidents in front of Idlewood PNS in 1 hr than there are at Mulholland Intersection in 1 week. You want to quote what can be considered reckless, go ahead. Thing is, that act is worded so curiously, that it doesn't necessarily make anything illegal, it just states that it could be illegal. Which means, all cases should be evaluated on a case by case basis. Could it endanger other citizens? Just driving around could do that, doesn't mean you pull over everyone driving a monster truck. Does your driving endanger other citizens at that point? That's where the argument should be.

So yeah, in a situation where there are no other driving cars or citizens within visible range me reversing in my lane does not nor could possibly endanger anyone. Thus it's not reckless driving no matter which way you point your act.

Try looking for reckless driving at Idlewood PNS, you'd have your hands filled there.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 08, 2013, 01:03:58 am
Try looking for reckless driving at Idlewood PNS, you'd have your hands filled there.
Yes, I was just speaking hypothetically and I knew you were going to bring up the part we can both prove each other incorrectly and I agree with that.

Okay, lets evaluate your reversing in lane.

"Could it endanger other citizens?" Yes.

At that point that is when a law enforcement officer may step in and pull the person over, or especially the ARA and VOSA will take the person who violates into court.

After that the person has the right to defend themselves in court to prove that they have valid reason on why they were doing such act. 

So yeah, in a situation where there are no other driving cars or citizens within visible range me reversing in my lane does not nor could possibly endanger anyone. Thus it's not reckless driving no matter which way you point your act.

Your opinion basically says it would be legal to peel out, speed, or drive erratically as long as nobody is around. Therefore, that statement would be false.

:ps: I always will stick with Mulholland Intersection, thank you very much.


Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 08, 2013, 03:43:43 am
Your opinion basically says it would be legal to peel out, speed, or drive erratically as long as nobody is around. Therefore, that statement would be false.
Speed? No, that's a separate crime. But the constitution is clear on what it understands as reckless driving, driving that can harm other citizens. Can you harm other citizens when there are none within miles? No, you can not. So not reckless driving. It's not my opinion, it's what it says.

Yes, you can argue that the constitution means "can potentially, in a hypothetical situation, harm other citizens", but in that case driving in general is understood as reckless driving. I mean, someone could jump out on the street, and you could potentially harm them.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TheLegitHabibi on February 08, 2013, 05:37:23 am
What the constitution says means that any sort of driving which has the potential to harm citizens, is reckless driving. Whether you're alone in Tierra Robada, or Idlewood PNS. Still counts as reckless....
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 08, 2013, 07:12:43 am
Yes, you can argue that the constitution means "can potentially, in a hypothetical situation, harm other citizens", but in that case driving in general is understood as reckless driving. I mean, someone could jump out on the street, and you could potentially harm them.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 08, 2013, 07:30:15 am
Whether you're alone in Tierra Robada, or Idlewood PNS, still counts as reckless....
Agreed. You never know where someone may be at. It's still a risk to their lives, even if you think they aren't there, hence why it's illegal even when no one is around.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 08, 2013, 07:51:30 am
Agreed. You never know where someone may be at. It's still a risk to their lives, even if you think they aren't there, hence why it's illegal even when no one is around.
Except you can kinda see if anyone is nearby. It's not thinking they aren't there, it's knowing they aren't there.

If you drive carefully when you see there are others nearby, then the law has achieved it's goal, it's preventing harm of other people. If you're at a point when there's no way to harm other people, then the law is meaningless, it literally has no point to it, other than punishing of citizens. Doing the same thing in different situations leads to different results, does not mean you should act upon it all the same in all of the situations. TinMan is trying to establish reversing as a crime, because in some bizarre one in a million situation, it will harm other people. No, that's silly and wrong. I can give you ways any single thing about traffic can harm others, we might as well ban vehicles in general.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 08, 2013, 08:03:49 am
Except you can kinda see if anyone is nearby. It's not thinking they aren't there, it's knowing they aren't there.
You can't say that with 100% certainty. What if a player logs in right where you are speeding/recklessly driving?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 08, 2013, 08:12:15 am
What if a player logs in right where you are speeding/recklessly driving?
What if a player logs in right where you are driving carefully? Opcodes middle of the street? Pull over every single person because someone may log in where they're driving?

Speeding and reckless driving are separate things anyway, and I don't argue about speeding, I'm arguing about reckless driving.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 08, 2013, 08:18:16 am
What if a player logs in right where you are driving carefully? Opcodes middle of the street? Pull over every single person because someone may log in where they're driving?

Speeding and reckless driving are separate things anyway, and I don't argue about speeding, I'm arguing about reckless driving.
Speeding may be a different crime, but it is still a form of reckless driving. If you are driving the speed limit and being completely safe, and someone logs in, right in front of you, and gets hit, then it's purely an accident. If you are speeding and/or recklessly driving and you hit someone who logs into the game in front of you, it's still your fault because you could have reacted better if you followed the laws.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 08, 2013, 08:34:05 am
Speeding may be a different crime, but it is still a form of reckless driving. If you are driving the speed limit and being completely safe, and someone logs in, right in front of you, and gets hit, then it's purely an accident. If you are speeding and/or recklessly driving and you hit someone who logs into the game in front of you, it's still your fault because you could have reacted better if you followed the laws.
Speeding is not the same at all, speeding is a crime regardless of conditions, whereas reckless driving is an incredibly conditional crime.

Anyway, if someone logs in right in front of you, you will hit them regardless if you drive carefully at 80km/h or if you took an excessively wide turn at 80km/h, as I said, any and all driving has the potential of harming someone, that does NOT classify it as reckless driving.

Unless president or supreme courts state otherwise, unless there is an actual, real threat or damage to other citizens at that point in space and time, not just "potentially, if this exact weird scenario plays out", it shouldn't be reckless driving. I'm not saying that driving in the wrong lane or speeding would be legal, I'm saying that if there is no way possible to harm even a baby, then it's not reckless driving, just as the law states. Driving on the curb in Pershing Square - sure, reckless driving, populated area and a lot of people are there almost 24/7. Cutting a corner in Montgomery, not so much. Or, god forbid, reversing with no one anywhere near you.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 08, 2013, 09:00:22 am
Speeding is not the same at all, speeding is a crime regardless of conditions, whereas reckless driving is an incredibly conditional crime.
Reckless driving is not conditional at all. If you drive recklessly, it's reckless driving. It's pretty straightforward. It doesn't matter who is around, it is still a crime.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 08, 2013, 09:06:13 am
Reckless driving is not conditional at all. If you drive recklessly, it's reckless driving. It's pretty straightforward. It doesn't matter who is around, it is still a crime.
The Constitution's definition on reckless driving is driving that can endanger other citizens. So not really, if you bump down every single pole around you, that's not reckless driving, that's harm to property instead. However, if there are people standing near these poles, that turns into reckless driving as well. See how it's conditional?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 08, 2013, 09:13:45 am
The Constitution's definition on reckless driving is driving that can endanger other citizens. So not really, if you bump down every single pole around you, that's not reckless driving, that's harm to property instead. However, if there are people standing near these poles, that turns into reckless driving as well. See how it's conditional?
Those people are not taking reckless actions that could potential damage the poles. If they are swinging bats around near the poles, which could potentially damages those poles, they are being reckless. It's not conditional.

You are trying to justify something illegal as legal when no one is around. That does not make it legal.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 08, 2013, 09:17:43 am
Speeding may be a different crime, but it is still a form of reckless driving.

Very true. I was going to post that until I saw this.

Reckless driving is not conditional at all. If you drive recklessly, it's reckless driving. It's pretty straightforward. It doesn't matter who is around, it is still a crime.

Agreed.

Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 08, 2013, 10:27:25 am
I'm not justifying anything, I'm interpreting what the Constitution states. It doesn't say "Reckless driving is understood as driving in a reckless manner". Instead, what is says is that if my driving can endanger other citizens, it's reckless driving. Now, as our argument shows, it can be interpreted in different ways, however, we must pick only one way, for sake of continuity. So which one do you think is more appropriate?

Which means that I have full legal right to pull you over every time you get in a car, and cash in 250$ from you, because I can come up with ways how driving a car can endanger citizens

or

Which means that you pull over people when they're actually endangering others.

You can't just go "In some situations we'll interpret it this way, in some situations we'll interpret it that way", you can't switch it up when it suits you, that's absolutely corrupted way of thinking.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 08, 2013, 10:33:43 am
I'm not justifying anything, I'm interpreting what the Constitution states. It doesn't say "Reckless driving is understood as driving in a reckless manner". Instead, what is says is that if my driving can endanger other citizens, it's reckless driving. Now, as our argument shows, it can be interpreted in different ways, however, we must pick only one way, for sake of continuity. So which one do you think is more appropriate?
  • If the driving in any possible situation has the potential of endangering citizens, it's reckless

Which means that I have full legal right to pull you over every time you get in a car, and cash in 250$ from you, because I can come up with ways how driving a car can endanger citizens

or
  • If the driving at that given moment and place endangers other citizens, it's reckless

Which means that you pull over people when they're actually endangering others.

You can't just go "In some situations we'll interpret it this way, in some situations we'll interpret it that way", you can't switch it up when it suits you, that's absolutely corrupted way of thinking.
What about the property that can be damaged by reckless driving? What about the animals who can be hurt? What about you, yourself, as a person in the vehicle who can be injured by your reckless driving? It does not matter who is around. It is still illegal. The constitution makes no exceptions to this.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 08, 2013, 10:41:30 am
What about the property that can be damaged by reckless driving? What about the animals who can be hurt? What about you, yourself, as a person in the vehicle who can be injured by your reckless driving? It does not matter who is around. It is still illegal. The constitution makes no exceptions to this.
Damaging property is a different law, Section III, Act I, but it is NOT reckless driving as understood by the Constitution. Also, it's actually damaging property, not endangering property, just in case you bring that up.
There are no laws regarding hurting of animals.
Constitution is very clear that for it to be reckless driving, it has to endanger other citizens, there are no laws regarding injuring yourself.

The wording of Act III.I states that police may take action upon a driver only if the form of driving can endanger other citizens. So I can drive like a baboon, unless I damage property, endanger other citizens, drive in the wrong lane or go over speed limit.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 08, 2013, 10:47:40 am
Damaging property is a different law, Section III, Act I, but it is NOT reckless driving as understood by the Constitution. Also, it's actually damaging property, not endangering property, just in case you bring that up.
There are no laws regarding hurting of animals.
Constitution is very clear that for it to be reckless driving, it has to endanger other citizens, there are no laws regarding injuring yourself.

The wording of Act III.I states that police may take action upon a driver only if the form of driving can endanger other citizens. So I can drive like a baboon, unless I damage property, endanger other citizens, drive in the wrong lane or go over speed limit.
Damage to property may be a crime in itself, but that does not mean that it cannot be caused by reckless driving. Likewise, hit and run is a separate crime from reckless driving, but it can also be caused by it. That still does not excuse you to ever drive recklessly.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 08, 2013, 11:00:03 am
What exactly do you mean by reckless driving? Reckless driving as in a reason to be pulled over? If no citizens were endangered, it would be an invalid reason. Reckless driving as in driving like a baboon, but following all the road laws? Completely permitted.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 08, 2013, 11:09:23 am
What exactly do you mean by reckless driving? Reckless driving as in a reason to be pulled over? If no citizens were endangered, it would be an invalid reason. Reckless driving as in driving like a baboon, but following all the road laws? Completely permitted.
If you are following all the road laws, you wouldn't be driving like a baboon.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TheLegitHabibi on February 08, 2013, 09:36:32 pm
Its very simple... According to the constitution, any driving the potiontial to harm citizens is considered reckless. Since were talking about the potential, the fact that there is anybody around goes down the drain.
I'm not on anyone's side. Repeating what the constitution says.

If you drive like a baboon, you have the potential to harm citizens. Now if you all focus on the word potential, it might be more clear.

Potential - having a capacity to be doing something on the future.

If you drive like a baboon, you have the potential to harm someone. Note that there isn't, and shouldn't be a reason to argue that there was no one around.

If you don't agree with it, you don't agree with the law. Because that's exactly what the constitution states.




Since I've said that, I also want to know what this debate is all about?

Going to a different crime, shootin
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: TinMan on February 09, 2013, 12:41:47 am
Since I've said that, I also want to know what this debate is all about?

Going to a different crime, shootin

Good point you made by the way, James Bond. The main debate is about this following video whether reversing in lane is considered reckless driving or not.

Chief_Hardy || VOSA Case #006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIGGaUFNQqk#)

Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 09, 2013, 12:57:52 am
Good point you made by the way, James Bond. The main debate is about this following video whether reversing in lane is considered reckless driving or not.

Chief_Hardy || VOSA Case #006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIGGaUFNQqk#)
If you are backing up to adjust the angle of your vehicle/park, no. If you are driving in reverse, yes. Driving in reverse is dangerous because cars were not designed to drive distances in that direction, hence why the forward gear is called "drive", and the reverse gear is called "reverse" in cars.

If the person in the video was driving down the ramp and saw something in the road, and decided to reverse and then change lanes to drive around it, that wouldn't be reckless. What is happening in the video is, indeed, reckless.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: ClazzyJogel on February 09, 2013, 01:03:55 am
So in short police officers can suspect people as they see fit, with no evidence and they are in the right? I'm sorry but that is just corruption waiting to happen. Every citizen should have the legal right to take an officers claim to court regardless.

If you are talking about reckless driving, yes a witnessing officer is all thats needed to punish an infraction.

http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=28990.40 (http://arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=28990.40) - good example.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 09, 2013, 09:34:30 am
any driving the potiontial to harm citizens is considered reckless. Since were talking about the potential, the fact that there is anybody around goes down the drain.
Issue is, that it's worded as in "can endanger" not "potentially endanger", that's the difference. It's not specified whether 'can at that moment' or 'can potentially' is meant here. Hence why I'd love a clarification from Supreme Courts or the Presidential office, 'cause honestly, you can potentially endanger other people by going 80km/h in Los Santos. Means you can pull over whoever you want and charge them 250$, just because they're driving a car.

Sugar, where are you pulling that information out from?
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 09, 2013, 10:33:31 am
Issue is, that it's worded as in "can endanger" not "potentially endanger", that's the difference. It's not specified whether 'can at that moment' or 'can potentially' is meant here. Hence why I'd love a clarification from Supreme Courts or the Presidential office, 'cause honestly, you can potentially endanger other people by going 80km/h in Los Santos. Means you can pull over whoever you want and charge them 250$, just because they're driving a car.

Sugar, where are you pulling that information out from?
"Can" and "potentially" are synonyms.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: LSPD_Swat on February 09, 2013, 11:11:41 am
Yes, the people doing this should be fined more.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 09, 2013, 11:14:46 am
"Can" and "potentially" are synonyms.
You've learned a different sort of English than I have.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 09, 2013, 11:17:14 am
You've learned a different sort of English than I have.

Quote from: Google's Definition Of Can
can 
/kan/
Verb
Be able to: "they can run fast"; "he can't afford it".

Quote from: Google's Definition Of Potentially
potentially 
Web definitions
with a possibility of becoming actual; "he is potentially dangerous"; "potentially useful".

So being able to do something, and the possibility of doing something are not the same thing now? You can't have the possibility without the ability, and the ability is not possible without the possibility of it happening. These words go hand-in-hand for a reason.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 09, 2013, 11:22:45 am
A fat man has a potential of running fast, if he trained and lost some weight. However, as it is, he can not run fast.

That's the difference, in one in a million situation reversing will harm someone, doesn't make it illegal in every single situation.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Megamidget on February 09, 2013, 11:35:10 am
A fat man has a potential of running fast, if he trained and lost some weight. However, as it is, he can not run fast.

That's the difference, in one in a million situation reversing will harm someone, doesn't make it illegal in every single situation.

Reversing up a highway off ramp could harm someone, hence why it is deemed reckless driving. The probability of the incident resulting in harm to another person is irrelevant in the Law. The fact that it Could is what matters, not that its a 1 in a Million chance.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Conk on February 09, 2013, 11:39:03 am
Inappropriate language usage removed - Paul
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 09, 2013, 11:47:02 am
Reversing up a highway off ramp could harm someone, hence why it is deemed reckless driving. The probability of the incident resulting in harm to another person is irrelevant in the Law. The fact that it Could is what matters, not that its a 1 in a Million chance.
Ok so you, as SAPD Sergeant, are permitting officers to pull people over whenever the officer can figure out ANY way possible that it could harm someone, regardless of the possibility?

I'll keep that in mind next time you're in a car, as I said before, even while obeying all traffic laws, you can harm someone. If I get ARPD reports, I'll make sure to refer to this and everyone else's posts.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Jones on February 09, 2013, 01:04:41 pm
What's with the pointless argument in here... Paul has said what he has to say and it is quite clear...

Instead of trying to twist the constitution and it's meaning.. Use logic sense to find out what it actually means.. It is quite easy.

Reversing up a ramp with the potential to get in the way of oncoming traffic when they have just reached the end of the unlimited speed limit is reckless and would cause an accident.

As a Judge yourself I'm surprised that you are unable to understand a simple part of what the topic of argument is about.

Quote from: Argonath Constitution
Act III: [...]driving recklessly, or not driving on the right side of the road is still a punishable offense. Law prescribe a fine of a maximum of 250 dollars for any road infraction. [...]
   III.I: Reckless driving understand any form of driving that could endanger other citizens. Under such circumstances, a police officer is allowed to take necessary actions.

The argument of that it does not specifically say that it is not okay to reverse is completely wrong considering the constitution defines 'Reckless driving'..


Ok so you, as SAPD Sergeant, are permitting officers to pull people over whenever the officer can figure out ANY way possible that it could harm someone, regardless of the possibility?

I'll keep that in mind next time you're in a car, as I said before, even while obeying all traffic laws, you can harm someone. If I get ARPD reports, I'll make sure to refer to this and everyone else's posts.

If you are caught in the act of doing something which may cause danger to other citizens you can be stopped by the police. If you drive down the wrong side of the road, you will be pulled over for reckless driving as you have created a situation where you would be the cause of any accidents.


A final quote:
Quote from: Argonath Constitution
Act V: A criminal offence is an offence only if it is an offence in the written official documents of the United State of Argonath. Anything that is not specifically included can be brought into civil court in order to set the legitimacy of the case.

My statements and quotes above follow this act. The act of reversing up a ramp is considered reckless driving. The act of reversing in the wrong direction of travel is considered reckless driving unless the person is reversing to park their vehicle.

If this is so hard to understand, do as the quote says above, take it into the Civil Court and I will happily clear it up officially.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Pingster on February 09, 2013, 01:34:53 pm
If you are caught in the act of doing something which may cause danger to other citizens you can be stopped by the police.
My point in the argument is that if this is a generally accepted thing, then it allows for people pulling you over for just driving a car - the act of doing so has a potential of endangering other citizens. It's a bit outrageous, but permitted, apparently. Though, of course, if anyone actually tried to do that, everyone arguing here for it would yell for copbans and ARPD reports, so I want to know where's the line between "Too low of a potential of endangering someone - legal" and "You've got a pretty good chance of endangering someone - illegal". Again, you getting in your car and accelerating has a potential of endangering someone, but you wouldn't view it as a crime, as reckless driving, would you?

As a Judge yourself I'm surprised that you are unable to understand a simple part of what the topic of argument is about.
I understand things pretty well.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: Jones on February 09, 2013, 01:37:44 pm
If a person enters a vehicle they are given a responsibility to ensure they drive within the road laws and how they are taught by the Driving Schools. The act of reckless driving would be when they go against these responsibilities and pose, or has the potential to cause, an unnecessary risk to others.
Title: Re: Enforcement on the traffic
Post by: SugarD on February 10, 2013, 12:02:18 am
Ok so you, as SAPD Sergeant, are permitting officers to pull people over whenever the officer can figure out ANY way possible that it could harm someone, regardless of the possibility?
If they are doing something which breaks the law and can lead to this, yes. Reckless driving is pretty straightforward. You do it, and you are committing a crime. It's not hard to understand. Dissecting the meaning of the law from it's actual wording is just an attempt to find a loophole in the system. That is why laws are enforced by "the spirit of the law" and not "the letter of the law". That has always applied IRL and IG for various, obvious reasons.
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal