Argonath RPG - A World of its own
Argonath RPG Community => Speakerbox => World and local news => Topic started by: Huntsman on August 23, 2013, 07:59:25 pm
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The Prime Ministers of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia: Algirdas ButkeviÄÂius, Valdis Dombrovskis and Andrus Ansip issued a common statement on the European Day of Remembrance for Victims of Totalitarian Regimes, the Press service of the Government has informed.
Today is European Day of Remembrance for victims of Stalinism and Nazism. Today the world commemorates the victims of the totalitarian regimes of the 20th century.
On 23 August 1939, the Soviet Union led by Joseph Stalin and the German Reich ruled by Adolf Hitler entered into a secret pact to divide and conquer Europe.
The totalitarian regimes occupied freedom-loving European nations and a reign of terror was unleashed.
Communism and Nazism took the lives of millions of people. In the Baltic States, no families were left untouched by the violence of these malicious regimes. Misery affected all ethnic and social groups.
We remember the victims of the totalitarian regimes and honour those who fought against tyranny and oppression. We also commemorate the most vivid expression of the Baltic nations’ desire for freedom.
On 23 August 1989, two million people from Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania stood hand in hand in the Baltic Way from Vilnius through RÄ«ga to Tallinn in order to demand the restoration of their independence, which had been robbed by the Soviet regime.
Our peaceful aspiration for freedom was stronger than the Soviet might, because justice was on our side.
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European Day of Remembrance
Today the world commemorates
Denied the education that z0mg evil Stalinists brought to Baltics and look what happened to levels of Geography...
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The UK is in Europe, I ain't seen nobody give a shit.
Not even on BBC news!
Someone educate me on what Stalinists are, never heard of it.
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Unfortunately the independence of the Baltic was short-lived.
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Denied the education that z0mg evil Stalinists brought to Baltics and look what happened to levels of Geography...
A simple mistake? Wanna go and make a big deal about it? Do it somewhere else. And FYI, Lithuanian education is one of the highest level ones in Europe. My classmate moved to UK while he was a 7th grader. By the level of his knowledge, he was moved to 9th grade in UK instantly.
Education Soviets bought? Really? What education? Soviet union itself was a third world country, knowing nothing but how to murder and drink vodka. Yes, it's true, and you cant run from it. Russia was a third world country ever since the Russian Empire. Every advancement in technology that was already available in europe reached Russia only after hundreds of years, the only thing Soviet taught was - American capitalist bad guy, Russian socialist good guy, or "Lithuanian Grand Duchy never existed, so never existed Lithuania, you're all Russians" . You tried to destroy everything Lithuania has developed in the inter war period. You stole the gold we had in our banks, yes, Lithuania was a fucking rich country, unlike your Soviet Union, we had developed a lot during the period, we had a strong army that beat your Red drunktrads to a pulp twice, and it would have did it the third time, and if needed united with the other Baltics, if not Smetona running away and not giving the order to attack, which the army was already ready to do, so Russians caught them by surprise. This is what your so called education done to Belarus, a once great country, now living in pretty much communist regime, pretending to be democratic.
On the other hand, the soviet regime MIGHT have worked under policies that Gorbachev was enforcing.. But Stalin ruined the soviet union, killed thousands of Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Belarussians, Ukrainians and RUSSIANS THEMSELVES, yet you worship a murderer. You definatly need to take some sort of medication...
Unfortunately the independence of the Baltic was short-lived.
Depends on which side of the EU you look at. At one point, they indeed interffeer with our decisions, government, and go against the will of our people. At the other side of it, thanks to them we can now enjoy proper roads in the whole country, a lot of villages, towns are reconstructed, they help smaller villages to develop and so on. The only bad thing about it is the fact that our borders are open and that they tend to pass stupid laws that dont satisfy our people.
The UK is in Europe, I ain't seen nobody give a shit.
Not even on BBC news!
Someone educate me on what Stalinists are, never heard of it.
Stalinism is being loyal to the Stalins regime, worshipping him and so on. Stalin was the reason why everyone hates communism and socialism, because this man has murdered thousands of people all around the Soviet block, yet there are some idiots who take him for a hero. He was as bad as Hitler, maybe even worse.
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A simple mistake? Wanna go and make a big deal about it? Do it somewhere else. And FYI, Lithuanian education is one of the highest level ones in Europe. My classmate moved to UK while he was a 7th grader. By the level of his knowledge, he was moved to 9th grade in UK instantly.
Depends on which side of the EU you look at. At one point, they indeed interffeer with our decisions, government, and go against the will of our people. At the other side of it, thanks to them we can now enjoy proper roads in the whole country, a lot of villages, towns are reconstructed, they help smaller villages to develop and so on. The only bad thing about it is the fact that our borders are open and that they tend to pass stupid laws that dont satisfy our people.
The Soviets set up your education system and provided free health care.
Thing is your government chose to be part of the Soviet Union, and as you learned nothing from history, your government chose to be part of the EU. When the choice was made people were happy, things can change over time.
But the fact remains that the independence gaind was given to a similar conglomeration of states.as you were so happy to leave.
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The Soviets set up your education system and provided free health care.
Thing is your government chose to be part of the Soviet Union, and as you learned nothing from history, your government chose to be part of the EU. When the choice was made people were happy, things can change over time.
But the fact remains that the independence gaind was given to a similar conglomeration of states.as you were so happy to leave.
I'm not surprised that it's what they teach in Russian schools. We always had free health care and we had top notch economy.
Chose ? Really? Do you really think Smetona CHOSE to be part of the Soviet Union when he actually FOUGHT it multiple times to defend Lithuania? Also, why would he run away from Lithuania then? You're ignoring simple facts of history that are already proven. As under the Lithuanian-Soviet peace treaty, Lithuania allowed Soviet forces to have unlimited movement around Lithuania while they're at war with Poland, and in return you get Vilnius back for us. Yet Soviets used the situation and backstabbed us in the back, quietly invading every important section of the government and then called a fake referendum whenever we want to be part of the Soviet Union or not. The man you see in those propaganda videos who is signing the contract of joining the soviet union - Paleckis, the traitor of Lithuania and the traitor of humanity, whose son is now the most hated man in Lithuania most likely, due to the fact he's following the steps of his father.
We had the choice? Oh really? Explain the 13th of January, 1991 in Vilnius then.
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As I mentioned, decisions that look good today can be looked upon as corrupt and forced tomorrow.
It says a lot that you shit on the Soviet Union while already being part of a similar system. You precious independence was not worth keeping, so it seems.
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As I mentioned, decisions that look good today can be looked upon as corrupt and forced tomorrow.
It says a lot that you shit on the Soviet Union while already being part of a similar system. You precious independence was not worth keeping, so it seems.
I never said I agree to being in the European Union, in fact, I think that we should quit it and not be part of any union/alliance, even NATO, and instead try to increase warmer relations with the Eastern Block who actually cares about us.
Neither I ever hate Russia, I hate the Soviet Union, not Russian Federation, two different things that are led by different people.
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I never said I agree to being in the European Union, in fact, I think that we should quit it and not be part of any union/alliance, even NATO, and instead try to increase warmer relations with the Eastern Block who actually cares about us.
Neither I ever hate Russia, I hate the Soviet Union, not Russian Federation, two different things that are led by different people.
I am aware of that, and I know very well the Baltics have suffered enormous from the paranoia of Stalin. Many people were taught that Soviet Union = Stalin and forget that is also brought good things, just like the EU has brought many good things
Let's remember the good time we have and forget the demons we had to fight. And if we have to fight again, lets fight together.
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It's interesting how different societies 'recognise' these regimes and other regimes of the past.
Certain ones, particularly the Nazi movement (rather than Nazism as an attitude and/or political affiliation) in some parts of the world is altogether shunned. Of course, you would expect their actions to be, but interestingly unlike other acts in history the word itself is considered almost uncustomarily sinful. Perhaps still a reflection of the scar that it has left on modern history.
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You definatly need to take some sort of medication...
I counter-propose that: I suggest you take some medication against this rear pain that you feel about Russia and that is fuelling your speech.
The USSR did bring good welfare basis to the Baltics, among other good things which are denied because of some nation-wide rear pain. The Baltic people ''rose'' against the USSR only when it was deep in crisis, 40 years after it was made a part of that country. So if the Lithuanians and neighbors kept their cool for four decades, it obviously means something was making them happy, unless Baltics are autists or something and I had no idea about it... That said, your ''Russia is Third World'' speech also makes no sense, as a country that has the welfare capacity to make one of its biggest haters cool for a long time is completely out of the range of Third World concept.
What you wrote is as much propaganda as what you claim the Soviet education to have been. You shit on the USSR because apparently inside it Lithuania was shitty - I can not see what is better in changing the first name of your controller ("Soviet" to "European"). Baltics are the poor cousins of Europe, they send their minds to be low-budget workers in the UK, they are defended by a meager half-dozen air fleet from NATO and pretty much the reason which they are a part of EU/NATO is because EU/NATO think having a border with Russia scares them (loool). That doesn't make contemporary Lithuania any better than what you claim the Lithuanian SSR was.
And about the topic itself - why hasn't the EU made a day of rememberance for all the people who died and still die and suffer in masses, in the so-called Third World, in the name of freedom, democracy and capitalism enjoyed by them? Getting mad about Stalin and Hitler is really that addictive? :lol:
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My classmate moved to UK while he was a 7th grader. By the level of his knowledge, he was moved to 9th grade in UK instantly.
While your system works like this:
1st grade: 7–8 years
2nd grade: 8–9 years
3rd grade: 9-10 years
4th grade: 10–11 years
5th grade: 11–12 years
6th grade: 12–13 years
7th grade: 13–14 years
8th grade: 14–15 years
9th grade: 15–16 years
Ours works like this:
Nursery: 4 years
Reception: 5 years
Year 1: 6 years
Year 2: 7 years
Year 3: 8 years
Year 4: 9 years
Year 5: 10 years
Year 6: 11 years
Year 7: 12 years
Year 8: 13 years
Year 9: 14 years
Year 10: 15 years
Year 11: 16 years
Now you see why your friend was in a higher year compared to your graded system. His level of knowledge was no higher.
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A simple mistake? Wanna go and make a big deal about it? Do it somewhere else. And FYI, Lithuanian education is one of the highest level ones in Europe. My classmate moved to UK while he was a 7th grader. By the level of his knowledge, he was moved to 9th grade in UK instantly.
Complete fucking derp.
While your system works like this:
1st grade: 7–8 years
2nd grade: 8–9 years
3rd grade: 9-10 years
4th grade: 10–11 years
5th grade: 11–12 years
6th grade: 12–13 years
7th grade: 13–14 years
8th grade: 14–15 years
9th grade: 15–16 years
Ours works like this:
Nursery: 4 years
Reception: 5 years
Year 1: 6 years
Year 2: 7 years
Year 3: 8 years
Year 4: 9 years
Year 5: 10 years
Year 6: 11 years
Year 7: 12 years
Year 8: 13 years
Year 9: 14 years
Year 10: 15 years
Year 11: 16 years
Now you see why your friend was in a higher year compared to your graded system. His level of knowledge was no higher.
Win.
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So if the Lithuanians and neighbors kept their cool for four decades, it obviously means something was making them happy.
Any Lithuanian civilian that actually lived there in these times would disagree with you. It's easy for you to talk about this, pretending to know everything, but in the end you're just someone from Argentina who was born after the Soviet Union ceased to exist.
A more logical explanation would be to blame the Soviet way of handling 'problems'. In any Soviet occupied country there was no such thing as freedom of speech. If you didn't support shit you'd be sent off to a working camp the minute they found out. They didn't 'keep their cool for four decades', they just wanted to try and live a normal life in a crazy world full of soviet propaganda and censorship. It's easy not to lose your cool when you know it means prison, death or workcamps if you lose it.
The worst part? It's still going on in Russia. Protestors being victims, journalists who try looking into it and discover stuff suddenly 'commiting suicide, jumping off an apartment'... Do some research, man.
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pretending to know everything
but in the end you're just someone from Argentina who was born after the Soviet Union ceased to exist.
*rest of post*
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/61812758/brezhnev_laughing.jpg)
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. So if the Lithuanians and neighbors kept their cool for four decades, it obviously means something was making them happy
Or you know...fear after what happened in Prague spring and Hungarian revolution also knowing that Warsaw pact was still being enforced.
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3RfL2mDeD9c/S7i6XN3Q_ZI/AAAAAAAAAfk/rGObELH9IpA/s400/german-soldiers09.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/61812758/brezhnev_laughing.jpg)
On a serious note, great comeback. :>
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A more logical explanation would be to blame the Soviet way of handling 'problems'. In any Soviet occupied country there was no such thing as freedom of speech. If you didn't support shit you'd be sent off to a working camp the minute they found out. They didn't 'keep their cool for four decades', they just wanted to try and live a normal life in a crazy world full of soviet propaganda and censorship. It's easy not to lose your cool when you know it means prison, death or workcamps if you lose it.
I see Western propaganda has worked very well on you.
Most people living in Soviet times do not know if they should find such things hilarious or be offended at the blatant lies people were fed.
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It surprises me to see that coming from you. I however have heard the stories first hand from an artist who lived in the Georgia when it was still part of the Soviet Union, until he moved to the Netherlands a year or two before the civil war there which freed them from the USSR.
Although I have seen things you'd clasify as ''western propaganda'', that is not where my views are based on. I'm fortunate enough to have actually met victims of the USSR repression.
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I see Western propaganda has worked very well on you.
I'm sure the west could say the same about Russia.
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It surprises me to see that coming from you. I however have heard the stories first hand from an artist who lived in the Georgia when it was still part of the Soviet Union, until he moved to the Netherlands a year or two before the civil war there which freed them from the USSR.
Although I have seen things you'd clasify as ''western propaganda'', that is not where my views are based on. I'm fortunate enough to have actually met victims of the USSR repression.
People running from their counrty will rarely give a positive or true example. Georgia was not free after a civil war there was a referendum like in the Baltics, and like any other Soviet republic had the right to hold.
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I'm sure the west could say the same about Russia.
Western propaganda never worked in Russia.
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ITT: People knowing jackshit about Baltic history pretend they are completely right on the subject.
Unfortunately the independence of the Baltic was short-lived.
truth be told.
Education Soviets bought? Really? What education?
During Cold War Soviet education was at the top of the world. Nuff said.
Judging by your later postings, you are clearly an unbiased person towards this topic.
Thing is your government chose to be part of the Soviet Union, and as you learned nothing from history, your government chose to be part of the EU. When the choice was made people were happy, things can change over time.
Another bullshit call.
If you name "You either join us or we'll invade you and annex anyway" a "choice", then go dig up a dictionary.
While your system works like this:
1st grade: 7–8 years
2nd grade: 8–9 years
3rd grade: 9-10 years
4th grade: 10–11 years
5th grade: 11–12 years
6th grade: 12–13 years
7th grade: 13–14 years
8th grade: 14–15 years
9th grade: 15–16 years
Ours works like this:
Nursery: 4 years
Reception: 5 years
Year 1: 6 years
Year 2: 7 years
Year 3: 8 years
Year 4: 9 years
Year 5: 10 years
Year 6: 11 years
Year 7: 12 years
Year 8: 13 years
Year 9: 14 years
Year 10: 15 years
Year 11: 16 years
Now you see why your friend was in a higher year compared to your graded system. His level of knowledge was no higher.
Biggest ice-burn of the month. Exceptionally great, KhornateMonkey!
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People running from their counrty will rarely give a positive or true example. Georgia was not free after a civil war there was a referendum like in the Baltics, and like any other Soviet republic had the right to hold.
I don't think this person would lie about this or 'run' so far for no reason. I believe him and view him as a valuable source, but you're right in that it isn't an independent source.
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Western propaganda never worked in Russia.
I meant Russians are brainwashed by Russian propaganda.
You say us people in the West are brainwashed by western propaganda, you're brainwashed by Russian propaganda.
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I meant Russians are brainwashed by Russian propaganda.
You say us people in the West are brainwashed by western propaganda, you're brainwashed by Russian propaganda.
What 'Russian' propaganda are you talking about exactly? The only large-scale propaganda there is is the US (NATO) justifying its "war on oil terrorism" and the communistic propaganda (China/North Korea). If you, on the other, hand would call Putin's presidential campaign (for example) propaganda, then I strongly suggest you to check out the American one too and afterwards form a more suitable opinion. Easy to point fingers when you ignore your own country's (or nation's) flaws (in this case, I'm generalizing the West).
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What 'Russian' propaganda are you talking about exactly? The only large-scale propaganda there is is the US (NATO) justifying its "war on oil terrorism" and the communistic propaganda (China/North Korea). If you, on the other, hand would call Putin's presidential campaign (for example) propaganda, then I strongly suggest you to check out the American one too and afterwards form a more suitable opinion. Easy to point fingers when you ignore your own country's (or nation's) flaws (in this case, I'm generalizing the West).
Oh look, a Russian talking about how Russia doesn't have any propaganda.
I wonder how much propaganda you were fed by Russia until you believe there actually was no propaganda, these days everything you see/hear on TV, especially on the news is propaganda designed to keep you in check, I don't support the US, or NATO in any current wars, apart from the ones against the dirty scum Taliban as they actually are terrorists and nothing can change that, infact I'de rather love to see NATO fall apart so that the UK could be free of all it's oil related wars which it's dragged into by the USA.
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truth be told. During Cold War Soviet education was at the top of the world. Nuff said.
Please, can you give me a reason for your statement? Source maybe?
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Oh look, a Russian talking about how Russia doesn't have any propaganda.
What gave you the impression that I'm Russian? My opinion? For your information, I'm living in Europe and have 3 nationalities. What's your point? :)
I wonder how much propaganda you were fed by Russia until you believe there actually was no propaganda, these days everything you see/hear on TV, especially on the news is propaganda designed to keep you in check, I don't support the US, or NATO in any current wars, apart from the ones against the dirty scum Taliban as they actually are terrorists and nothing can change that, infact I'de rather love to see NATO fall apart so that the UK could be free of all it's oil related wars which it's dragged into by the USA.
Oh so your only source to form such a firm opinion is the general Western media which sprays you with danger messages about the big bad terrorists and the good NATO heroes? Again, I suggest you to revise your matter and sources. The UK chose to be in the NATO, it wasn't even forced, which means that your beloved country gives its full support to the US and its foreign policy which doesn't make it any better than the US itself.
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What gave you the impression that I'm Russian? My opinion? For your information, I'm living in Europe and have 3 nationalities. What's your point? :)
Oh so your only source to form such a firm opinion is the general Western media which sprays you with danger messages about the big bad terrorists and the good NATO heroes? Again, I suggest you to revise your matter and sources. The UK chose to be in the NATO, it wasn't even forced, which means that your beloved country gives its full support to the US and its foreign policy which doesn't make it any better than the US itself.
How can you be sure it wasn't forced to join NATO? Maybe thats just propaganda, now that you say we in the west are brainwashed by it so much, everything must be propaganda, maybe the UK is just propaganda, and it's actually owned by the USA, right, okay.
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How can you be sure it wasn't forced to join NATO?
Wow lol, are you actually implying that GB was forced to join? 6/10 if trolling intended.
Maybe thats just propaganda, now that you say we in the west are brainwashed by it so much, everything must be propaganda, maybe the UK is just propaganda, and it's actually owned by the USA, right, okay.
It's ok son, I know it's hard to believe that the world isn't all black&white and good vs bad... :)
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It's easy for you to talk about this, pretending to know everything, but in the end you're just someone from Argentina who was born after the Soviet Union ceased to exist.
+4000. That's what most people do who havent even been to former soviet states.
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How can you be sure it wasn't forced to join NATO? Maybe thats just propaganda, now that you say we in the west are brainwashed by it so much, everything must be propaganda, maybe the UK is just propaganda, and it's actually owned by the USA, right, okay.
If you say there is Russian propaganda, prove it. If you can not, there is none.
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If you say there is Russian propaganda, prove it. If you can not, there is none.
Russia doesn't need propaganda anymore. How does 'agree with me or get sent to the fuÑÂking gulag' sound?
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Stalin is dead for 60 years already bro.
Do you think that work camps ended with the death of Stalin? Yes,while it's true that some of the people were let get back to home it didn't mean the end of the oppression of anybody in the USSR.
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Do you think that work camps ended with the death of Stalin? Yes,while it's true that some of the people were let get back to home it didn't mean the end of the oppression of anybody in the USSR.
The existence of work camps has nothing to do with the oppression of free speech.
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The existence of work camps has nothing to do with the oppression of free speech.
Gandalf, please tell me more about Socialist Realism and how artists made their day-to-day living in Soviet Union.
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Wow lol, are you actually implying that GB was forced to join? 6/10 if trolling intended.
No, I'm just implying that by your logic, everything is propaganda.
It's ok son, I know it's hard to believe that the world isn't all black&white and good vs bad... :)
Ok son, then it's hard to believe that propaganda actually exists.
If you say there is Russian propaganda, prove it. If you can not, there is none.
Prove there is Western propaganda then, post something thats 60 lines long and I won't reply nor read it. =)
Russia doesn't need propaganda anymore. How does 'agree with me or get sent to the fuÑÂking gulag' sound?
That reminds me of something else too, won't say it, I'll never be seen in Argonath again.
The existence of work camps has nothing to do with the oppression of free speech.
So work camps still exist in Russia and people are forced to work at them? Nice country you got there.
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Gandalf, please tell me more about Socialist Realism and how artists made their day-to-day living in Soviet Union.
Which artists you want to hear about? Nikulin? Popov?
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Prove there is Western propaganda then, post something thats 60 lines long and I won't reply nor read it. =)
Just check the movie from the World Athletics last week where it was told Russian female athletes kissed each other to protest against a law.
Look at the movie and you see nothing but them congratulating each other, no protest at all..
So work camps still exist in Russia and people are forced to work at them? Nice country you got there.
Our prisons are not luxury resorts like yours.
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Just check the movie from the World Athletics last week where it was told Russian female athletes kissed each other to protest against a law.
Look at the movie and you see nothing but them congratulating each other, no protest at all..
What does that have to do with what I asked?
Our prisons are not luxury resorts like yours.
Right because being locked in a cell for 23 hours a day is luxury.
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What does that have to do with what I asked?
Lost cause.
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3 meals a day, bed, toilet and lots of free-time for rapists and murderers. Yeah, terrible life for a crook!
Couldn't be bothered replying to everything else.
If the UK didn't feed it's prisoners often, the EU would instantly be on our arse over human rights.
If the UK didn't provide a bed for the prisoners to sleep on, the EU would instantly be on our arse over human rights.
The UK is currently suffering with the EU plague, do I need to say more?
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It's hilarious how people are trying their best to deny that the Soviet Union did fucked up things in Eastern Europe.
And to be honest, any world power has their own propaganda, not just the US and NATO. But Russia, China and their allies (North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, etc.) always seem to use that buzzword to dismiss any sort of criticism against them.
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Oh so you must have worked and lived a life in the USSR? Tell me more about how bad the Soviet Union was.
Ah yes, the old argument "you can't say anything about my precious USSR if you didn't live there". So it happens, we don't have to be at every place at any time to know what happened, there are other methods of knowing what it was like. Like, you know, history.
Alas, you should apply your own logic to yourself next time you talk about other countries you don't live in, "bruh".
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Ah yes, the old argument "you can't say anything about my precious USSR if you didn't live there". So it happens, we don't have to be at every place at any time to know what happened, there are other methods of knowing what it was like. Like, you know, history.
Alas, you should apply your own logic to yourself next time you talk about other countries you don't live in, "bruh".
Oh but I did live in Russia, and a part of my family did live their lives in the Soviet Union. Tell me, how come when they tell me that every time they woke up, went to work, kids went to school for free, both having free insurance, all safe and secure that by their return, the table would be covered with food like it is today, the (by then) US anti-commy propaganda made it look like a chaotic state who wages war continuisly and can't feed their own people. Now tell me how my family lied to me :). In all seriousness; every state of -ism had its flaws. Yes, the USSR wasn't paradise, but what is 'paradise' exactly? People weren't hungry, got around and lived life, while even have 2 homes most of the time (AKA "dacha"). Easy to say "West is good East is bad" whereas you probably never even experienced anything of it while pulling such arguments on 'history'. History only tends to discuss wars, and state-of-war matter, and not the everyday lives of Soviet citizens.
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What does that have to do with what I asked?
...... I was of better opinion about you....
It's hilarious how people are trying their best to deny that the Soviet Union did f**ked up things in Eastern Europe.
Remind me please who does defend Soviet Union's actions particularly in this topic? Names, please.
Ah yes, the old argument "you can't say anything about my precious USSR if you didn't live there". So it happens, we don't have to be at every place at any time to know what happened, there are other methods of knowing what it was like. Like, you know, history.
My sources could be my entire family, especially grandparents. Till this day they all say that the Soviet Union post 70s wasn't bad at all, it was retarded during Stalin reign 30-50s, but after that it went uphill great for citizens. Albeit downhill f**ked up with the economics and infrastructure, but that's a different story simply because nobody was aware of it.
Oh but I did live in Russia, and a part of my family did live their lives in the Soviet Union. Tell me, how come when they tell me that every time they woke up, went to work, kids went to school for free, both having free insurance, all safe and secure that by their return, the table would be covered with food like it is today,
The problem is that this kind of infrastructure for the country worked only temporarily, because economy was fucked up. You also mentioned the bit about "war waging" of USSR, I'll remind you that, firstly, economy in the Soviet Union was militaristic-based, and secondly, there were the Afghanistan war, Vietnam, which didn't happen ONLY because of USA.
The life in the mid-late USSR was good, but it didn't work out because USSR eventually ran out of resources. Everyone was satisfied except the government who were ran by a bunch of Alzheimer-eqsue old people who couldn't properly think of changing the economy, or being afraid of the change, or even trying to do ANYTHING. The regime basically died out like a terminally sick hazel, which is a shame. I can't really say that post-USSR countries are having a really good time nowadays.
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Oh but I did live in Russia, and a part of my family did live their lives in the Soviet Union. Tell me, how come when they tell me that every time they woke up, went to work, kids went to school for free, both having free insurance, all safe and secure that by their return, the table would be covered with food like it is today, the (by then) US anti-commy propaganda made it look like a chaotic state who wages war continuisly and can't feed their own people. Now tell me how my family lied to me :). In all seriousness; every state of -ism had its flaws. Yes, the USSR wasn't paradise, but what is 'paradise' exactly? People weren't hungry, got around and lived life, while even have 2 homes most of the time (AKA "dacha"). Easy to say "West is good East is bad" whereas you probably never even experienced anything of it while pulling such arguments on 'history'. History only tends to discuss wars, and state-of-war matter, and not the everyday lives of Soviet citizens.
Edo, now maybe your family members were one of the "most equals among equals", you know the ones who had special stores for them to buy from. Yes education was free also compulsory at times till high school. What you think what kind of education you get from this kind of system. Also want me to tell you about some of the perks of the university in Soviet era. Every thesis or research paper you did had to be tied somehow to Lenins thought that also includes Physics. I had a conversation with a Geography professor who to get his PhD equivalent (candidate) first had to say in his paper that his research paper has no value at all and had it check in Department no 1 (KGB).
Wanted less trouble as a student? Become a member of the Communistic Party's youth organization. (Comsomol). Wanted to buy sausages, well go wait in line or go to market and buy from a dude who has his "premium" sausages right under his coat.
want to print out some birthday pamphlets and pass it out in your office. Go trough the censorship first. Needed baby clothes? Good luck as those are deficits.
Now Edo, tell me how my family and the people around me who all lived in that era in ESSR lied to me?
Life for the regular person was how it was, yes you had free healthcare and education also the culture you could experience was a lot cheaper than it is today and I do understand that a lot of people might remember it with nostalgia, also the experiences between people varies, but it's all in the past and that's where it also belongs.
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Edo, now maybe your family members were one of the "most equals among equals", you know the ones who had special stores for them to buy from. Yes education was free also compulsory at times till high school. What you think what kind of education you get from this kind of system. Also want me to tell you about some of the perks of the university in Soviet era. Every thesis or research paper you did had to be tied somehow to Lenins thought that also includes Physics. I had a conversation with a Geography professor who to get his PhD equivalent (candidate) first had to say in his paper that his research paper has no value at all and had it check in Department no 1 (KGB).
Wanted less trouble as a student? Become a member of the Communistic Party's youth organization. (Comsomol). Wanted to buy sausages, well go wait in line or go to market and buy from a dude who has his "premium" sausages right under his coat.
want to print out some birthday pamphlets and pass it out in your office. Go trough the censorship first. Needed baby clothes? Good luck as those are deficits.
I never denied the fact that there wasn't any communist propaganda in the USSR. It was the 'way' of life back then, obviously, which also made sense with the ongoing cold war. You think 'communists' in the West were treated fairly and democratic during the cold war?
Now Edo, tell me how my family and the people around me who all lived in that era in ESSR lied to me?
No I wouldn't say that. All I can say on that matter is that the life within the USSR differed from ethnicity to ethnicity which unfortunately reflects back onto your family's past, yes. But then again, how could you condemn the whole system if those 'characteristics' only applied on certain parts of the republic? That's what I'm trying to point out here.
Life for the regular person was how it was, yes you had free healthcare and education also the culture you could experience was a lot cheaper than it is today and I do understand that a lot of people might remember it with nostalgia, also the experiences between people varies, but it's all in the past and that's where it also belongs.
I agree that the past is the past and life today differs from it. Just like the life back then differed from the life under Tsar Peter II...
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Enough shit on one topic already, let me clear some stuff for you first.
1st. i'm not against Russia, i'm against USSR. (If i would be against Russia, would I willingly be learning Russian?)
2nd. I never said I support Lithuanias membership of EU and NATO, joining it was a rush decision that we should revert ASAP.
Now, as for KhornateMonkey, you got our whole education wrong.
ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Grade 1 - 7-8 yo
Grade 2 - 8-9 yo
Grade 3 - 9-10 yo
Grade 4 - 10-11 yo
Middle School
Grade 5 - 11-12 yo
Grade 6 - 12-13
Grade 7 - 13-14
Grade 8 - 14-15
Gymnasium/High School
Grade 9 (or 1st Gymnasium Class) - 15-16 (ME!)
Grade 10 (or 2nd Gymnasium Class) - 16
Grade 11 (Optional, 3rd Gymnasium Class)
Grade 12 (Optional, 4th Gymnasium Class)
And our education IS one of the highest rated ones in Europe. Google it if you dont believe me.
Now, before you shitstorm in this topic, let me f**king make it clear - My mother, my father, my sister and my brother all lived in the Lithuanian SSR. They do indeed say that life was better back then because of proper wages and cheaper prices. But then there was a dark side that they also state, KGB, nearly impossible to leave the country, getting rich, pursuing career or unleashing your talents pretty much were illegal, if you had it better than others you could have been turned into a enemy of society or blamed as a bourgeois, the only places were you could travel were the USSR, the rest of the world pretty much didnt exist for you, most of what you saw on TV was "Gorbachev today has visited a kolhoz of some ukrainian city" and so on, freedom of speech appeared only in the last days of the union, you couldnt say anything against the union, Russians were dominant and everything politically important was in Russian, they tried to destroy the identities of Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Ukrainians and all the other nations that were in USSR, trying to turn them into Russians, profit was illegal as well, if you bought a car for 500 rubles, you couldnt sell it for 560 rubles, you had to sell it either cheaper or at the same price, otherwise you would be called a bourgeois and imprisoned. Imagine, profit was ILLEGAL, you had to sell everything at a price that government has set, and it was a time when brother went against brother to get a better life condition, for example, rating out that someone said something bad about USSR or a teacher said some patriotic speech to the students, it pretty much got you very well awarded. Being a traitor of your nation was being a hero to the USSR. Oh, and dont get me started on thousands of people who got deported to Syberia and died there just for having a head and living better than others.
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Now, as for KhornateMonkey, you got our whole education wrong.
ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Grade 1 - 7-8 yo
Grade 2 - 8-9 yo
Grade 3 - 9-10 yo
Grade 4 - 10-11 yo
Middle School
Grade 5 - 11-12 yo
Grade 6 - 12-13
Grade 7 - 13-14
Grade 8 - 14-15
Gymnasium/High School
Grade 9 (or 1st Gymnasium Class) - 15-16 (ME!)
Grade 10 (or 2nd Gymnasium Class) - 16
Grade 11 (Optional, 3rd Gymnasium Class)
Grade 12 (Optional, 4th Gymnasium Class)
Okay, that's great, but this still does not prove that your friend was intelligent enough to skip a few years. For example, if I compare Grade 7 to Year 7. In Lithuania, the age in Grade 7 is 13-14 years, yet in the UK the age for year 7 is 12.
Judging by this information, it is clear why your classmate was pushed forward a few "grades". This is due to his age, not intelligence.
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Okay, that's great, but this still does not prove that your friend was intelligent enough to skip a few years
I told you what he told me, so..
Whatever, he's an immigrant anyways.
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they tried to destroy the identities of Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Ukrainians and all the other nations that were in USSR, trying to turn them into Russians
Complete BS. If that was the case, there wouldn't be something as "Lithuanian SSR" or "Ukranian SSR" etc. Besides, Stalin even gave out RUSSIAN land to Ukraine (Crimea) and Georgia (Abkhazia, etc.), which obviously implies that the USSR acknowledged different nationalities.
it was a time when brother went against brother to get a better life condition, for example, rating out that someone said something bad about USSR or a teacher said some patriotic speech to the students,
Still happens frequently today, in the West.
Oh, and dont get me started on thousands of people who got deported to Syberia and died there just for having a head and living better than others.
Stalinism =/= Communism. Yes, the camps still existed after his death, but deportations and executions were drastically decreased in scale. Also, again, this same thing is happening in modern day West. IE: Snowden & Manning, who are being blamed for treason by the US government.
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Complete BS. If that was the case, there wouldn't be something as "Lithuanian SSR" or "Ukranian SSR" etc. Besides, Stalin even gave out RUSSIAN land to Ukraine (Crimea) and Georgia (Abkhazia, etc.), which obviously implies that the USSR acknowledged different nationalities.
Still happens frequently today, in the West.
Stalinism =/= Communism. Yes, the camps still existed after his death, but deportations and executions were drastically decreased in scale. Also, again, this same thing is happening in modern day West. IE: Snowden & Manning, who are being blamed for treason by the US government.
Happens in West, happens in West... So what? That does not prove anything because it does not have to do anything with the west. Lithuania is Central /Eastern Europe, and we dont give a shit about what happens in west. We're talking about what happened in EAST and what affect, good and/or bad USSR had on it.
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-BS-
Complete crap, you don't get to skip years in the UK no matter how intelligent you are, if Stephen Hawking was 10 he's still be in the same year that 10 year olds are in, what does the rating of the educational system prove? What has your 'highly intelligent' country achieved in the world?
I told you what he told me, so..
Right, so if your mate told you the moon was made of cheese would you believe him?
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Happens in West, happens in West... So what? That does not prove anything because it does not have to do anything with the west. Lithuania is Central /Eastern Europe, and we dont give a shit about what happens in west. We're talking about what happened in EAST and what affect, good and/or bad USSR had on it.
What I tried to imply is that each state has its fair share of dishonesty. That's how politics worked, are working and always will be working, and you'll have to deal with it every day.
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Complete BS. If that was the case, there wouldn't be something as "Lithuanian SSR" or "Ukranian SSR" etc. Besides, Stalin even gave out RUSSIAN land to Ukraine (Crimea) and Georgia (Abkhazia, etc.), which obviously implies that the USSR acknowledged different nationalities.
No, not really a complete BS. Take it this way - official bureaucracy language in any state of Soviet Union - Russian. Language in what the science was made was also Russian. Russian language was started to teach in kindergarten. Although Russian immigrants who moved to ESSR did not have to learn Estonian and there were a lot of Russian immigrants. That is also kind of the reason why now when I go to Tallinn (Capital of Estonia) I hear more Russian than Estonian on the street. If Soviet Union would have lasted 20 more years, Estonians would be minority in Estonia. Also there were slogans and campaigns promoting mixed nationalities kindergartens, because a bilingual citizen is twice the citizen!
Which is all the more sadder to see these days how Estonian government is using the same tactics toward Russians.
PS: I am out of this topic from now on as I have received a "Chinese warning" once a long time ago. If anyone wants to keep going, my PM is open.
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What has your 'highly intelligent' country achieved in the world?
Thanks to the Soviets we're talking about here - nothing. However, Lithuanian specialists on different sections are on high demand in Europe. I wonder why.
No, not really a complete BS. Take it this way - official bureaucracy language in any state of Soviet Union - Russian. Language in what the science was made was also Russian. Russian language was started to teach in kindergarten. Although Russian immigrants who moved to ESSR did not have to learn Estonian and there were a lot of Russian immigrants. That is also kind of the reason why now when I go to Tallinn (Capital of Estonia) I hear more Russian than Estonian on the street. If Soviet Union would have lasted 20 more years, Estonians would be minority in Estonia. Also there were slogans and campaigns promoting mixed nationalities kindergartens, because a bilingual citizen is twice the citizen!
Which is all the more sadder to see these days how Estonian government is using the same tactics toward Russians.
PS: I am out of this topic from now on as I have received a "Chinese warning" once a long time ago. If anyone wants to keep going, my PM is open.
Soviets tried to colonize the baltics, moved Russians into KlaipÄ—da, Vilnius and other economically important cities, and moved Lithuanians out... Whenever i'm in KlaipÄ—da i can hear a lot of Russian speaking people, and rarely Lithuanian speaking ones. However, surprisingly Lithuanians and Russians are getting along in there perfectly, unlike Lithuanians and Polish in Vilnius, somehow.
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Thanks to the Soviets we're talking about here - nothing. However, Lithuanian specialists on different sections are on high demand in Europe. I wonder why.
Every country could say that.
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Every country could say that.
And speaking of achievments, Lithuania achieved a lot in the military section in the inter-war period. We built superior war planes that were on high demand and met the top notch standarts of the time. And yet, everything was abolished by the soviets when they came.
We're also third in the world and the first ones in Europe by internet speed. Beat that.
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And speaking of achievments, Lithuania achieved a lot in the military section in the inter-war period. We built superior war planes that were on high demand and met the top notch standarts of the time. And yet, everything was abolished by the soviets when they came.
We're also third in the world and the first ones in Europe by internet speed. Beat that.
Superior? To who? The Polish? If they were that good the nazi's wouldn't have been able to invade.
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Is it so hard to discuss in a civilised manner? All I see now is provocation after provocation, insult after insult. No need to be so hostile to each other.
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Thanks to the Soviets we're talking about here - nothing. However, Lithuanian specialists on different sections are on high demand in Europe. I wonder why.
Soviets tried to colonize the baltics, moved Russians into KlaipÄ—da, Vilnius and other economically important cities, and moved Lithuanians out... Whenever i'm in KlaipÄ—da i can hear a lot of Russian speaking people, and rarely Lithuanian speaking ones. However, surprisingly Lithuanians and Russians are getting along in there perfectly, unlike Lithuanians and Polish in Vilnius, somehow.
And speaking of achievments, Lithuania achieved a lot in the military section in the inter-war period. We built superior war planes that were on high demand and met the top notch standarts of the time. And yet, everything was abolished by the soviets when they came.
We're also third in the world and the first ones in Europe by internet speed. Beat that.
All I see is sourceless brabble. Get some redirections in there, man.
Soviets tried to colonize the baltics, moved Russians into KlaipÄ—da, Vilnius and other economically important cities, and moved Lithuanians out... Whenever i'm in KlaipÄ—da i can hear a lot of Russian speaking people, and rarely Lithuanian speaking ones. However, surprisingly Lithuanians and Russians are getting along in there perfectly, unlike Lithuanians and Polish in Vilnius, somehow.
If the Soviets wanted to colonize Lithuania, no Lithuanians would be left. ;) The reason why everyone is getting along nowadays is because no one is retarded enough to hate eachother over past politics...
Polish? Please.. Superrior to everything UK had at the time. Nazi's did not invade us, Soviets did, and if you wouldnt be an ignorant moron you are, you would have noticed it in the previous posts that Lithuania had everything ready to defend and was told to await for an order to attack, yet the order never came and they were forced to surrender when Soviets caught them by surprise.
So, basing myself on your quote here, I assume that you'd rather have the Nazi's invade/annex you and kill another million of jews to save your own skin from a (Soviet) "threat"?
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Is it so hard to discuss in a civilised manner? All I see now is provocation after provocation, insult after insult. No need to be so hostile to each other.
Sometimes hostility is needed to reach agreements.
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Superior? To who? The Polish? If they were that good the nazi's wouldn't have been able to invade.
If you would have paid attention instead of throwing random nonsense, you would notice that Lithuania had their army ready to defend and would have defended in a common front with the other baltics, however, they were told to wait for an order to attack and that order never came, resulting in them waiting for nothing until it was too late. And it wasnt the Nazis who invaded, it was the Soviets. We're not speaking about Poland here.
Is it so hard to discuss in a civilised manner? All I see now is provocation after provocation, insult after insult. No need to be so hostile to each other.
I don't go around in the forum being an ass to everyone who disagrees with me, I'm just having enough of this guy.
All I see is sourceless brabble. Get some redirections in there, man.
Sourceless?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_in_Lithuania
http://www.investlithuania.com/en/services/press/news/categoryView/news/internet-in-lithuania-is-fastest-in-the-world
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/05/want-super-fast-broadband-try-lithuania/
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Lithuania-300-Mbps-For-35-114053
Should i go on?
So, basing this on your quote here, I assume that you'd rather have the Nazi's invade/annex you and kill another million of jews to save your own skin from a (Soviet) "threat"?
>Implying Soviets killed less people than Nazis.
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Should i go on?
So the only sources you can provide are about the Lithuanian internet which practically has nothing to do with current discussion?
>Implying Soviets killed less people than Nazis.
Again, you seem to mix up Stalin with the whole Soviet era. I suggest you to revise your history or something. Besides, you compare war with peace, as in, Lithuanians died during WWII, just like the Nazi's and Soviet's. Blaming the Soviets for all the deaths happened is pretty immature, no offense. And even besides that, you compare the couple of years the Nazi's were there, in contrast to almsot a half century of Soviet domination over Lithuana. Not really a good estimate now is it? If the Nazi's were to stay in Lithuana, the jews would be entirely wiped out, and pretty possible the whole Lithuanian race would be enslaved (ref: Hitler's vision on the 'Slavic' untermensch) which indeed would cause (alot) more casualties then whatever casualties Lithuania has suffered under the Soviet Union.
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(ref: Hitler's vision on the 'Slavic' untermensch)
Lithuanians are not slavic, they are Balts, which have nothing in common with Slavs. Just FYI