Advertising other servers on RS5

[murdoxix]

Any IP for any SA:MP RPG server wich is on?

samp.argonathrpg.com:7777

[Leon.]

Sir, you have to read.

I think the 'server advertising' taboo should be over. People mention a server in a conversation with their friends which probably already know about it, that's not what I call advertising. Advertising is when you invite people to join the other server.

I love this guy.

[Ted]

Sir, you have to read.

I think the 'server advertising' taboo should be over. People mention a server in a conversation with their friends which probably already know about it, that's not what I call advertising. Advertising is when you invite people to join the other server.

I have read. Subtle advertising it could be seen as your still telling someone.

Why do you think your always told not to talk about other servers?

[Leon.]

I do not understand how someone telling me where a member of our community migrated to can be considered advertising. We were discussing the guy and the silly shit he did, and he offered to tell me his whereabouts, and I said why not? Then banned. That wasn't even close to advertising, he was just telling me where he was... not like I was going to leave Argonath forever to go there JUST for that guy, even though I hate his guts. I felt really bad because I was the one who wanted to fucking know where he went, and then he got denied permanently. It's funny, too, because the one who banned him was WAITING for him to slip up after he offered to tell where he went... feels like I'm being controlled by nazis.

There are differences between advertising and not advertising when discussing another server. For the below examples, I will use an entirely made up IP and server name called PotatoHeadRP. So please do not ban me.

In my opinion...
What may be justly considered advertising:
-"JOIN PotatoHeadRP 111.121.131.1:7777" (not subtle at all, intention clear)
-"Bro, come play with me at PotatoHeadRP."
-"Argonath sucks, PotatoHeadRP is so much better."
-"111.121.131.1:7777"
-"PotatoHeadRP" (just said for no reason without any context)
-"I'm going to go play on PotatoHeadRP." (this isn't a direct and knowing intention to have other players join the server, but it may unintentionally incite others to join, maybe? idk kinda grey area there)

What is simply unfair and absurd to call advertising and punish for it:
-"BillyBob plays on PotatoHeadRP sometimes."
-"I came from PotatoHeadRP"
-"PotatoHeadRP kinda sucks."
-"BillyBob played here for a while, but he left and plays on PotatoHeadRP now."

[Malik.]

I love this guy.

Runs in the blood, Leon.

[Ted]

I do not understand how someone telling me where a member of our community migrated to can be considered advertising. We were discussing the guy and the silly shit he did, and he offered to tell me his whereabouts, and I said why not? Then banned. That wasn't even close to advertising, he was just telling me where he was... not like I was going to leave Argonath forever to go there JUST for that guy, even though I hate his guts. I felt really bad because I was the one who wanted to f**king know where he went, and then he got denied permanently. It's funny, too, because the one who banned him was WAITING for him to slip up after he offered to tell where he went... feels like I'm being controlled by nazis.

There are differences between advertising and not advertising when discussing another server. For the below examples, I will use an entirely made up IP and server name called PotatoHeadRP. So please do not ban me.

In my opinion...
What may be justly considered advertising:
-"JOIN PotatoHeadRP 111.121.131.1:7777" (not subtle at all, intention clear)
-"Bro, come play with me at PotatoHeadRP."
-"Argonath sucks, PotatoHeadRP is so much better."
-"111.121.131.1:7777"
-"PotatoHeadRP" (just said for no reason without any context)
-"I'm going to go play on PotatoHeadRP." (this isn't a direct and knowing intention to have other players join the server, but it may unintentionally incite others to join, maybe? idk kinda grey area there)

What is simply unfair and absurd to call advertising and punish for it:
-"BillyBob plays on PotatoHeadRP sometimes."
-"I came from PotatoHeadRP"
-"PotatoHeadRP kinda sucks."
-"BillyBob played here for a while, but he left and plays on PotatoHeadRP now."

You don't know if they were waiting for a slip up unless they say they were and that should not have been the case anyway. If you wait for things like that as an admin you will eventually meet a big bollocking. As for the ban itself there could've been much more to it than meets the eye.

Even those you listed as absurd I'd could call advertising to an extent lets say under the radar subtle haha. It's just the way I read into scenarios I read differently to others and have always done differently as you know. Would I punish for those? Nope. The third one you'd get a slap on the wrist for as insulting is insulting for me.

Hope you understand where I come from now.

[Leon.]

You don't know if they were waiting for a slip up unless they say they were and that should not have been the case anyway.

By waiting for a slip-up, I mean that the admin was probably anticipating that the player was going to mention a server name and was getting ready. I am not exaggerating when I say that the player was banned in under 5 seconds after naming the server... it was pretty funny but sad at the same time

He offered in public chat to tell me where he went, where I accepted his offer. And that is when the conversation in PM took place. There is no way that the admin would have banned him if he did not anticipate the name of a server coming and began to read PMs. Strange that the admin called it "advertising" too, when it was to just me, and I wasn't even going to go anywhere... so eager to get rid of the player. We all knew who it was that the player was talking about, and a lot of people are pretty curious about where he went, so I doubt his intentions were to advertise, especially considering the fact that he is (was) a long-time player. Oh yeah, I should mention that the player was also permanently denied.

Even those you listed as absurd I'd could call advertising to an extent lets say under the radar subtle haha. It's just the way I read into scenarios I read differently to others and have always done differently as you know. Would I punish for those? Nope. The third one you'd get a slap on the wrist for as insulting is insulting for me.

Hope you understand where I come from now.

Yeah, I gotchu dawg. A lot of people do indeed try to take advantage of circumstances and try to cover their intentions in a cowardly way. I completely understand that, and that is where deciding becomes difficult, because judging someone else's intentions with 100% certainty without reading their mind is humanly impossible!

[Ted]

By waiting for a slip-up, I mean that the admin was probably anticipating that the player was going to mention a server name and was getting ready. I am not exaggerating when I say that the player was banned in under 5 seconds after naming the server... it was pretty funny but sad at the same time

He offered in public chat to tell me where he went, where I accepted his offer. And that is when the conversation in PM took place. There is no way that the admin would have banned him if he did not anticipate the name of a server coming and began to read PMs. Strange that the admin called it "advertising" too, when it was to just me, and I wasn't even going to go anywhere... so eager to get rid of the player. We all knew who it was that the player was talking about, and a lot of people are pretty curious about where he went, so I doubt his intentions were to advertise, especially considering the fact that he is (was) a long-time player. Oh yeah, I should mention that the player was also permanently denied.

Yeah, I gotchu dawg. A lot of people do indeed try to take advantage of circumstances and try to cover their intentions in a cowardly way. I completely understand that, and that is where deciding becomes difficult, because judging someone else's intentions with 100% certainty without reading their mind is humanly impossible!

I'm not a manager anymore so it's dodgy territory for me to discuss the first part it's not really for me to discuss further. I will say that if there is conspiracy to get rid of a player or any sort of hunting an admin member will get a bollocking big time.

We've had a lot of crafty players finding various ways to advertise but only those that are clear and obvious should be banned.

[Zaila]

Sir, you have to read.

I think the 'server advertising' taboo should be over. People mention a server in a conversation with their friends which probably already know about it, that's not what I call advertising. Advertising is when you invite people to join the other server.

If we would allow players to do it, it would bite us in the ass in the long run and cause even more problems.

Let me make something clear here before there is rumours starting spreading about all this.

We have nothing against players playing on other servers. We have nothing against other servers (unless a server is used for malicious reasons). You can see it as a competition and we in fact respect other servers for what they have been able to achieve. We do not think we're the best and flawless since there is always room to improve on several areas and we're always working on improving ourself.

But what we have against is players using any Argonath related service to try to gain players for their own server. In example, sending a PM to the players and say 'Come on <ip> and get admin rights and 1 million dollar!'. Argonath has worked hard on it's way up to success without using other servers to advertise on. After all the hard work put into the server and all the hard work that is currently put into the server, we do not tolerate players trying to use it against us to get players on a server that will close down within a week or 2 again.

[Gird3r]

Why discuss other servers in any argonath channel at all?

Believe it or not, the admins have to interpret your intentions in regards to the rules when you do something controversial.
Sometimes they do this very badly...
Sometimes they do this in a good way...
And sometimes, I don't know what the f**k they are smoking, or what the HQ has taught them.

But the consistent is that they most commonly do it in a fair way.
(Also a source of the common "What the f**k I don't see that in the Argonath rules").

If everything was to be covered down to the last detail, they would the size of every lawbook for every country together to cover every situation that might pop up.
Certain people here has problems understanding that.
20 different things could break the same law after all.

So, in order to curb this problem, interpretation is used.
And this usually means "Do not discuss/mention other servers" in this case.

When you mention another servers name, it's seen as advertisement, regardless of your intention.
Google or any other search engine can easily substitute for a IP adress.

So, either you stop this, and keep other server discussion to a non-argonath communication tunnel, or you lobby for a lessening of the rules, or a increased tolerance regarding the subject among admins.

EDIT: I also find it ridicilous that mentioning a server name leads to a permanent ban in a PM of all places. That's way to quick to write someone off.

[Petarda]

Why discuss other servers in any argonath channel at all?

Hey, this guy is from [insert server name here]! instaban

[Hyuga.]

Hey, this guy is from [insert server name here]! instaban

Why would you mention what server he used to play in at all? He's playing here now.

[Petarda]

Why would you mention what server he used to play in at all? He's playing here now.

Because me and my friend know him from that server maybe?

[Hyuga.]

There are ways to avoid saying the server's name.
"He's that guy from the server we last played in"

Why try your luck when you know mentioning other server's names is not allowed?

[Petarda]

Why try your luck when you know mentioning other server's names is not allowed?

Not really.