Lets get real.

[Sawyer]

So far I've yet to see actual specific suggestions that say how to solve these issues everyone is moaning about. Instead, all I see is more moaning and people demanding change...but without saying how.

I've done my job saying my opinion, how is this going to change is something I cannot know, but the ones who should are those who have changed it at the very first place. It is very clear to my eyes - RS5 brought disaster.

[SugarD]

RS5 sucks according to the 100 players that left - end of story.

Okay, let's see your statistics and their sources. Also, how about you tell everyone what sucks, and specifically how to fix it. So far I've seen you do nothing but complain, and not suggest a single way to solve these so-called problems you keep moaning about.

I've done my job saying my opinion, how is this going to change is something I cannot know, but the ones who should are those who have changed it at the very first place. It is very clear to my eyes - RS5 brought disaster.

If you do not know what is wrong in order to fix it, then how do you know what to complain about?

[Matt Murdock]

Here's the solution : Graphic minimalism.

Everyone loves minimalism these days, how to implement it is upto the creative team. :p

I personally didn't like the RS5 graphics over RS4 ones.

[Rusty]

-   Use latest available backups of RS4 to bring back people's beloved stuff they seem to care about very much.

Given the circumstances, this seems like a decent option.

I kind of somewhat agree with Mario here.  If they can prove they had held it during that period then why not just give it back, or start going through the Heritage list and re-issue the one's that have been held by the same person/group for a lengthy period of time.

[Mario_Rinna]

That is four months or so behind the actual outage of SA:MP RS4 itself.

And that isn't a problem at all, you're just saying this as if SA-MP HQ has no tools to control the economy.

You're talking about outdated information that will put newer players at a huge disadvantage, and will just lead to more regulars moaning about how they want their stuff they earned after that back. Then you'll also get those who will complain about losing their RS5 data. That doesn't seem very decent at all. That is why SA:MP RS5 was rushed to begin with...

Yeah, most of new players have less assets than people who played for years with the purpose to gather them, but it is normal and not unfair. There's no need to make a big deal out this by overestimating the value of virtual money. We at MTA, too, suffered because of this data loss, but we just restored everything we could and gave everyone a compensation of $100k, which is more than most had before the data loss.

Some people say that there was no economy in RS4, and that is false: there was an economy; however, it wasn't controlled or regulated in any way. And that is exactly what led to everybody having millions.

Unfortunately, in an Argonath role-play server an asset reset usually leads to an illogical ending for a logical (for many) series of events. After a reset, the local community doesn't move forward – it starts anew. And it's quite rare when a new community suddenly gains 100 players. It takes time to rebuild.

I do not condemn the reset; neither do I support refunds – all I am saying is that it's an option which may help.

[Kent]

Unfortunately, in an Argonath role-play server an asset reset usually leads to an illogical ending for a logical (for many) series of events. After a reset, the local community doesn't move forward – it starts anew. And it's quite rare when a new community suddenly gains 100 players. It takes time to rebuild.

I do not condemn the reset; neither do I support refunds – all I am saying is that it's an option which may help.

These are some very wise words.

[Stivi]

Giving groups some of the assets, few vehicles and you'll be attracting groups back.

[Marcel]

I left but not because of RS5, it's because of my studies. 

Same here, i have not left, but rather became a bit inactive due to real life. Not saying i represent all the other players, there might be other causes to this loss in player count as well.

Please just stop this discussion, play in RS5 whenever you can, suggest ideas and file bug reports whenever you find bugs. This is going nowhere and only drives a wedge between the community. Grow up and accept that people come and go.

[Frank_Hawk]

The Argonath SA:MP server is in a state of great depression.

We can collectively continue looking at the past, critiquing the implementation of RS5 or we can concentrate on remediating the unprecedented challenges we face. Summarising many of the points I’ve seen on this topic is that RS5 lacks the spirit, personality and flare of its predecessors. Combined with internal and external factors which were out of our control supported by the lack of leadership post-implementation – we all need to pull together and provide real solutions that the leadership (whenever they become active) can consider therefore we can provide some real hope of returning to relative normality.

RS5 is facing enormous challenges:

1)   Economic stagnation is demoralising the community translating to players becoming frustrated and leaving. For example, players are less likely to spend because they have less money meaning less money is being pumped into the economy i.e. taxi driver have no fares

2)   Groups and families accounted for nearly 2/3 of the community and with no real fundamental method of making money through non-public jobs, these groups have grinded to a halt meaning that major public services like the SAPD have also stagnated.

3)   The removal of long standing functionality attributed to the ‘spirit, flare and personality’ of Argonath (i.e. RS1, RS2, RS3, RS4) was removed. This core functionality being removed has changed the game mode again translating to players leaving.

Personally, the above issues are very difficult to resolve with the current climate in the server. I’ve mentioned some corrective actions in my previous post but nobody except JDC or Mario Rinna has even attempted to work towards a resolution, instead opting for rhetorical nonsense over resolution.

The major argument for RS5 is that new features will provide solutions to the points above, however how can solutions be provided with no real player base left. The lack of experience in the server’s management is regretfully beginning to show and the arm’s length leadership of Gandalf is causing irreversible damage to the community. We need to actively encourage and discuss in open the solutions that the management/leadership are considering otherwise players are going to continue leaving.

Mario Rinna suggested another alternative which is now a serious and heavily endorsed idea which is to roll back to the last backup of RS4 and restore some confidence and normality into the server. This is a suggested solution as RS5 has been given reasonable teething time to self-correct but now having seen the dust settle, the core problems persist with no real communicated resolution on the horizon. 

I usually don’t get involved in server management issues anymore given my past, but seeing the state of the Argonath SA:MP community saddens me to a great degree, seeing all the aspirations of past leaders, managers, admins, players and historic players being quashed into ashes. We still have time to turn this around and we have the collective responsibility to restore the server’s competitive stance on the world SA:MP stage in hope of securing the best talent out there and continued organic growth.

I'm going to make another topic and poll to gauge the feelings of the Argonath SA:MP community.

[EliteTerm]

we care about the server.

I'm not going to start all over again and help the server build up again

Oh?

since the server itself does not help me to do so.

So you're expecting handouts? I don't remember Tony/ AlSforza or Daniel Corleone asking for any assistance in building their criminal empires that lasted years. I don't remember when Frank Hawk/ Mario Rinna asking for help when they built Rage Incorporated.


Players worked hard to become who they are. They worked hard to earn respect & reputation. If a player gives all that up just because he lost everything, doesn't deserves it. Those who kept working hard & earning despite losing everything, deserves it.

[AK47]

Kinda hard to rebuild 2-3 years of work, and when you are around 20 years old you probably don't have time to play that much like you could 2 years ago.

[EliteTerm]

Kinda hard to rebuild 2-3 years of work, and when you are around 20 years old you probably don't have time to play that much like you could 2 years ago.

That's true, I was 17 years old when I started on Argonath.

Why not 'retire'? That's how I feel nowadays, just kick back & enjoy what Argonath has to offer for you.

[AK47]

Why not 'retire'? That's how I feel nowadays, just kick back & enjoy what Argonath has to offer for you.

Yes but it's kinda hard to sit back and relax when you lost everything, you can barely do anything and all you m8s left because of this.

[JDC]

Yes but it's kinda hard to sit back and relax when you lost everything, you can barely do anything and all you m8s left because of this.

When I started in Argonath, I was 14 years old and barely in high school. Now, I am nearly 21 and am studying computer science in a premiere University.

Yet, I still find the spare time to come back here and contribute, and most importantly, enjoy. There is so much I learned from this community (other cultures, finding friends from different countries, debate, leadership, among others) and it has been a good experience for me. Even if I were no longer to lead on the front, part of my satisfaction comes from staying around and helping to pass on that experience to new generations of players.

The problem is the lack of players and the incessant complaining.
The solution is to pitch in and help things get going, by giving effort.

Now what do you want to be a part of, the problem or the solution? I have already made my choice.

[Sawyer]

Nice effort there, Elite. I'll just quit talking here it seems that it leads nowhere. Leaders shall do whatever they think is the best for the server.