Primary & Secondary Forum Ranks

[~Legend~]

I think it is really important to make a clear differentiation between non-RP ranks (like admin ones) and RP ranks (government official, judge). It doesn't seem right recognising a few government ranks, or a few judges in one or two servers, and not at all for others.

Seems most fair to have everyone in one ranking system, rather than different servers/platforms having their own while their counterparts in the 'less privileged' and 'less accounted for' servers losing out.
We've been with these forum irregularities for way too long. :p
SugarD also worked to correct this with some projects of his own a little while back.


I'd suggest setting all the RP/generic ranks as secondary, and having only non-RP ranks primary and viewable on forum profiles. They are altogether different and especially newer players would need to know who to contact for reporting abuse, correcting bugs, passing on information etc. while there are RP topics and guides for all other purposes.


Right now the forum has 2 ranking systems: assigned and unassigned

The unassigned are the more general ranks (membergroups) which you get based on how long you've been on the forum:

Guest
Regular
Veteran
Hero
Orc
...


Assigned are the ranks set to people to show that they have been given particular responsibilities. Normally all of these were just for (voluntary) 'staff' - those in the Argonath Administration:

Owner, Community Leader, Division Leader, Manager/Leader, Scripter, Admin, Moderator
Also: Webmaster and more recently Maiar and Valar (ex-Community/Division Leaders and ex-Managers/Leaders which still have to be properly set for all the past leaders and server/platform heads)
Forum Administration currently is semi-official role; not an official part of Argonath Administration, but generally given to help watch over or clean up particular parts of the forum.


Some RP ones have also come in, but oddly only for certain servers or certain government positions.
Of course, these should be set if it gives these people extra access to hidden boards or forum tools that they need for their RP job.

But they should not be primary and viewable on forum profiles. It's not right giving some people privileges and others performing the same role, or a more demanding one, none at all.

[SugarD]

SugarD also worked to correct this with some projects of his own a little while back.

(Ranks without stars = set to secondary-only. These screenshots are also from an older version)

[JDC]

<screenshots>

Personally, I like the ranking system. Although those setting ranks will have to do another double-check more often as it becomes easier to mix ranks between server by accident

[SugarD]

Personally, I like the ranking system. Although those setting ranks will have to do another double-check more often as it becomes easier to mix ranks between server by accident

If set up properly, that shouldn't be a problem for most people, since they'll only be able to set the ranks they have rights to set. >=-D

[~Legend~]

Thanks for that prototype Sugar. : D

I'm sure the syntax and so on can be edited and certain ranks moved around depending on if they're used/how they're used within local Admin Teams.

It would be excellent to throw out the irregular privileges that seem to plague a lot of the community, this being a visible one.

[SugarD]

...and certain ranks moved around depending on if they're used/how they're used within local Admin Teams.

They shouldn't be operating differently to begin with. The servers have strayed way too far from the community's design at this point. Even the admin system rank restructure that was supposed to affect all servers never fully did, so there are many inconsistencies that exist. Many servers created after it have also used their own systems, which don't match up because they didn't have a universal base to design their own around to begin with.

It would be excellent to throw out the irregular privileges that seem to plague a lot of the community, this being a visible one.

The example I gave fixes that already. You obviously can't see it from the screenshots, but those ranks would, (by theoretical/physical design), have their permissions properly set up so that ranks of a server can only moderate that server and anything else they are supposed to. That prevents, for example, a MTA:VC Manager from moderating the SA:MP boards, or an IV:MP Division Leader from moderating LU's boards, etc., but keeps Community Leader+ universal.

If anything, I would love to see this fully implemented across Argo Forums too. The permissions get very buggy and can be easily exploited with the current system, which is based mostly on trust and inheriting permissions. Nothing wrong with that...but if someone gets hacked or goes rogue, it isn't the best choice. You also lose out on equality if every rank from the same structure isn't using the same permissions, (as evident by what happened to ARPD Forums back in 2008/2009 or so between each Departments' rank structures).

[Radagast]

Sorry, I don't see the problem. As far as I'm aware, servers with a court system in place have judges, and we give the judge rank here so they can see the judge boards and conduct court business in the court boards. For other in-game stuff there is the ARPD forum, etc.

As regards ranks. The only ones able to set anyone's rank is a community leader and owner. Other HQ members are limited to setting only the ranks of the servers they manage.

[SugarD]

Sorry, I don't see the problem. As far as I'm aware, servers with a court system in place have judges, and we give the judge rank here so they can see the judge boards and conduct court business in the court boards. For other in-game stuff there is the ARPD forum, etc.

As regards ranks. The only ones able to set anyone's rank is a community leader and owner. Other HQ members are limited to setting only the ranks of the servers they manage.

I think the idea is aiming more for universalizing the system so it is consistent everywhere, and getting those RP ranks made as secondary only, since they aren't really related to the rest of the forum itself, and are just there simply for access.

There's also, (at least from my side of the topic), the ever-annoying issue of inconsistent and roaming permissions, which grant some people rights, some not, and granted rights can be used in places they shouldn't be. In other words, we're talking about a "modernization/lockdown" of the entire system's design. Not sure how you feel about such an idea, but if you want to discuss it more on Skype, let me know.

[Radagast]

We went through permissions and fixed them a while back. If you've noticed those who have permissions they shouldn't, I'll look into it. Most of the time, it's by design (removing ability to give forum warnings, edit globally, change any membergroup, change forum names).

[SugarD]

Most of the time, it's by design (removing ability to give forum warnings, edit globally, change any membergroup, change forum names).

That is where much of what I'm referring to comes into play too. With the exception of the warning system's permissions, (which is a flaw in SMF's design itself), the others can be remedied through a different structure, although it would be a lot of work. I've spoken to Gandalf about this once...and he seemed interested, but jokingly said it was too complicated for him to understand.

[Radagast]

I believe the issues we had have been fixed. Please let me know what issues you are aware of and they'll be fixed.

[Lionel Valdes]

Speaking on forum ranks, I find it unfair to create certain ranks just for specific people. Recently I've seen a forum position that has never existed before and was created only with the purpose of giving it to that single person -,-

It also makes us look really amateur..

[SugarD]

Speaking on forum ranks, I find it unfair to create certain ranks just for specific people. Recently I've seen a forum position that has never existed before and was created only with the purpose of giving it to that single person -,-

What rank are you referring to?

It also makes us look really amateur..

I agree. We need to make sure we keep to our professionalism when it comes to the image of our sites. Nothing wrong with them being fun and flashy...but they shouldn't look bugged out or typo'd either.

I believe the issues we had have been fixed. Please let me know what issues you are aware of and they'll be fixed.

I'll try to pull a list together soon. It is a bit complicated to explain.

[Radagast]

Speaking on forum ranks, I find it unfair to create certain ranks just for specific people. Recently I've seen a forum position that has never existed before and was created only with the purpose of giving it to that single person -,-

It also makes us look really amateur..

Please let me know which membergroup, oh wise and all-seeing one!

[SugarD]

Please let me know which membergroup, oh wise and all-seeing one!

Already spoke to him about it. He thought SA:MP Valar was only assigned to one person. Multiple people actually have it as secondary, and it relates to an old news announcement Gandalf made awhile back.