Former Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon dies at 85

[Gandalf]

This proves that one of us got wrong informations and only the time will discover who was right.
Exactly, so why Israël didn't take Egypt instead of Palestine?

Becausethey did not live there.

[Khm]

Becausethey did not live there.

But the Judaism started there and of course they lived thrre for good. Why not taking the original land then? As far as I know they choose a strategic place to control the traffic of Asia, Africa, Europe and of course petrol.

[Gandalf]

But the Judaism started there and of course they lived thrre for good. Why not taking the original land then? As far as I know they choose a strategic place to control the traffic of Asia, Africa, Europe and of course petrol.

Nobody said it started there.

[Khm]

Holy book of Judaand Quran said that.....and

If you did you would not make rather silly statements.
The first references of the existence of Judaism were made by the Egyptians. As fas as I know the oldest archeological discoveries linked directly ro Judaism are from around 1000BCE.

[Gandalf]

Holy book of Judaand Quran said that.....and

Did I say they were made as living in Egypt? The answer is NO.
The Egyptians recorded war with the Kingdom of Judea which was precisely where Israel is today.
There is no record of a large amount of slaves leaving or any other thing that refers to the story of Moses.
As Egyptians were vere precise in record keeping, such event would certainly have been recorded.

As for books you wish to name Holy, they are mostly mythology, which means that while they may refer to actual events and persons, the stories are not by any means to be seen as an accurate historical description.

Edit: Where is Mohamed named in the Torah?

[Khm]

Did I say they were made as living in Egypt? The answer is NO.
The Egyptians recorded war with the Kingdom of Judea which was precisely where Israel is today.
There is no record of a large amount of slaves leaving or any other thing that refers to the story of Moses.
As Egyptians were vere precise in record keeping, such event would certainly have been recorded.

As for books you wish to name Holy, they are mostly mythology, which means that while they may refer to actual events and persons, the stories are not by any means to be seen as an accurate historical description.

Edit: Where is Mohamed named in the Torah?

Not sure though but he is called Ahmet.

[Gandalf]

Not sure though but he is called Ahmet.

So you use a different name and say it is the person that you call by a different name.
Now the thing is that if God knows all, he also knows how a person will be named in the future, and using a different name is there for clear it is not the same person.
And if you are not sure, how can you make such claim? If you make a claim you will have to back it up with facts, if you are not sure of something better look it up first.

[Kimya.]

This proves that one of us got wrong informations and only the time will discover who was right.
Exactly, so why Israël didn't take Egypt instead of Palestine?

Because Palestine is the best land for Jewish because the Britain wanted them to stay there and they would help them to stay.

[Khm]

So you use a different name and say it is the person that you call by a different name.
Now the thing is that if God knows all, he also knows how a person will be named in the future, and using a different name is there for clear it is not the same person.
And if you are not sure, how can you make such claim? If you make a claim you will have to back it up with facts, if you are not sure of something better look it up first.

Everyone know that Mohamed is also called Ahmed. He also has other different "names" like Mustafa, Amin etc...
How would remember a thing with every detail, I am not the smartest guy in the world.

[Bundy]

Edit: Where is Mohamed named in the Torah?

As far as I know, Mohamed (صلى الله عليه و سلم) isn't mentioned by name in the Torah, although, he's being referred to as a false prophet in some phrases.

Nevertheless, there are many other Islamic prophets named in the Torah, and in fact; The Torah was brought down from Mount Sinai by Mousa (عليه السلام), which is also known as Moses.

What Khm meant to say is that the Torah is a 'corruption' of the Qur'an, as the people back then used to falsify editions of the book with self-written phrases. At least, this is what the Muslims believe.

[Gandalf]

Everyone know that Mohamed is also called Ahmed. He also has other different "names" like Mustafa, Amin etc...
How would remember a thing with every detail, I am not the smartest guy in the world.

Sure.. you use 100 names for one person so that it will always fit. Sorry, no way to convince me by that.
I also do not remember eveyrthing, but when needed I know where to find it.
Before making any kind of claim, be sure to be able to back it up by facts, and that includes claim of having researched somehting.

When I make research, I do not just follow my own ideas or sources, but always try to find as much original material as possible, and look at opinions that are contrary to what I think is right, with their arguments. That way it is possible to build a founded opinion and defend it in a debate.
I know that as I am much older it is easier for me, there for I hope you will use it to leanr how to do things.
My intention is that people research for themselves and make their own conclusions based on what they feel are reliable facts.
In most cases we might never agree, but that is not something which is bad, as everyone has the right to their own ideas and beliefs.

While I may seem to attack religion sometimes, I respect anyone who has belief in their heart and uses it for being a good person.
The main point of religion has always been about respect and treating others as you wish to be treated yourself. Do that, and if there is an afterlife you will be able to defend your actions.

[Gandalf]

As far as I know, Mohamed (صلى الله عليه و سلم) isn't mentioned by name in the Torah, although, he's being referred to as a false prophet in some phrases.

Nevertheless, there are many other Islamic prophets named in the Torah, and in fact; The Torah was brought down from Mount Sinai by Mousa (عليه السلام), which is also known as Moses.

What Khm meant to say is that the Torah is a 'corruption' of the Qur'an, as the people back then used to falsify editions of the book with self-written phrases. At least, this is what the Muslims believe.

I know that is what Muslims believe, and this forum is not really the correct place to go in to it very deeply as you are mostly young people that would be too easily influenced. There for all I can say is research for yourself how Islam came to be, and do not use Muslim sources only, as they have invested interest in twisting things in favour of Islam.

[Khm]

Sure.. you use 100 names for one person so that it will always fit. Sorry, no way to convince me by that.
I also do not remember eveyrthing, but when needed I know where to find it.
Before making any kind of claim, be sure to be able to back it up by facts, and that includes claim of having researched somehting.

When I make research, I do not just follow my own ideas or sources, but always try to find as much original material as possible, and look at opinions that are contrary to what I think is right, with their arguments. That way it is possible to build a founded opinion and defend it in a debate.
I know that as I am much older it is easier for me, there for I hope you will use it to leanr how to do things.
My intention is that people research for themselves and make their own conclusions based on what they feel are reliable facts.
In most cases we might never agree, but that is not something which is bad, as everyone has the right to their own ideas and beliefs.

While I may seem to attack religion sometimes, I respect anyone who has belief in their heart and uses it for being a good person.
The main point of religion has always been about respect and treating others as you wish to be treated yourself. Do that, and if there is an afterlife you will be able to defend your actions.

That's true. Both religions anyway have almost the same rules. Maybe if I was older would make you believe what I've said. The only thing that I want to do is stopping this discussion only if one of us have very strong proves. But I may show you that torah have got many mistakes and confuse-able.

[Ragdoll]

Sure.. you use 100 names for one person so that it will always fit. Sorry, no way to convince me by that.

Jesus predicted the coming of a messenger after him. (""whose name shall be Ahmad")
But his name turned out to be Muhammad. We have different names for him same as we have different names for Allah.

Maybe if I was older would make you believe what I've said.

Don't even try. Gandalf is relentless.

[Mark_C]

Because Palestine is the best land for Jewish because the Britain wanted them to stay there and they would help them to stay.

It's not the best land for the Jewish, but it's their lands. There's no other owners except the jewish, no romes and no palestinian and surely not the british. Britain didn't have such interest to the jews like to the arabs, the prefered the arabs because of the egyptian canal (Suetz), for neft and support from arab states who were with hitler while Britain fought against the nazis. Do you know about the "white book of McDonald"? Do you know that the anti zionist British ministers legislate laws to prevent the jewish aliyah and help the arabs raise the palestinian country? The british didn't need the jewish support until hitler was coming through and almost got to Israel and then the British asked the jews to induct into their army. They knew the jewish will support them anyways so they didn't realy care. But what is for sure, Israel has gotten it's goal and returned our beloved land back.