Let's get real - part 2 - RS5 or RS4?

[Hevar.]

You know what?

You ALL need a snickers :/ jk Frank_Hawk for president !!!

[Que]

Pray tell, what would this be?

Argonath has been lacking roleplay throughout the years. And that's the truth.
It doesn't even matter how hard you try to defend it, because you can't. It is what it is.

Also, are you basing this comparison on other "roleplay" servers? (nearly all of which are realistic or prison-RLRP servers)

Well, I do. Since most of these servers has the highest amount of good quality roleplay. And no, it isn't always about being super-serious and strict on these servers, it does actually happen weird events and roleplays there as well.  Been playing quite much on one of them in my previous years. Roleplay is top notch, community not so good.

- Basing of roleplay on standards of creativity and imagination, rather than scripts and script tools
- Not limiting players in roleplay to "rules" set up by people who do not have brains to know whether something in /L refers to RP scenario or real life

Rules or not, the whole point with my previous reply was not to start a war between RLRP and Argonath once again, it was to actually show my honest opinion of why I actually think the community is spreading sideways and not at the same direction. Argonath has always been a powerful and astonishing community, hence its transcendence. But without proper roleplay, the community will be hurt; and that's exactly what has happened.

- Welcoming new players with open arms, rather than discriminating on and ostracizing them
- Choosing admins on reliability and trustworthiness, rather than tenure or ability to pay
- Being able to moan without having all posts 100% hidden, which other communities do to make it look like nothing is wrong (in which case a topic like this will NEVER have a chance of existing)

Three good points indeed. But how does this effect the roleplay? It doesn't.


After all, we all came to Argonath because we found it interesting with roleplay. The community and the big warm heart was just one big bonus and got us all pretty caught to the heat and its passion. Nevertheless, most of the good roleplayers we actually had here, doesn't-matter-which-style, has left the server and the community to meet new faces and new challenges. Those who are left are mostly inactive or just on the forum to keep their activity level and themselves up. What is being left behind is the bunny-hoping cop killaz, who has no intention of making Argonath a better place; just to screw around and be a bunch of total cherries, and a cop force whose roleplay level has decreased enormously.

Wrong steps were taken in the past, kicking on the one's who actually tried to roleplay here, giving the carelessly the space and right to do whatever they want on Argonath. Breaking rules, doing bad shit all over, continuing to spread a negative atmosphere, destroying the heart and small amount of roleplay being left behind. It's sad. It is really.

[Jamie_James_Jameson]

Argonath has been lacking roleplay throughout the years. And that's the truth.
It doesn't even matter how hard you try to defend it, because you can't. It is what it is.
Well, I do. Since most of these servers has the highest amount of good quality roleplay. And no, it isn't always about being super-serious and strict on these servers, it does actually happen weird events and roleplays there as well.  Been playing quite much on one of them in my previous years. Roleplay is top notch, community not so good.
Rules or not, the whole point with my previous reply was not to start a war between RLRP and Argonath once again, it was to actually show my honest opinion of why I actually think the community is spreading sideways and not at the same direction. Argonath has always been a powerful and astonishing community, hence its transcendence. But without proper roleplay, the community will be hurt; and that's exactly what has happened.
Three good points indeed. But how does this effect the roleplay? It doesn't.


After all, we all came to Argonath because we found it interesting with roleplay. The community and the big warm heart was just one big bonus and got us all pretty caught to the heat and its passion. Nevertheless, most of the good roleplayers we actually had here, doesn't-matter-which-style, has left the server and the community to meet new faces and new challenges. Those who are left are mostly inactive or just on the forum to keep their activity level and themselves up. What is being left behind is the bunny-hoping cop killaz, who has no intention of making Argonath a better place; just to screw around and be a bunch of total cherries, and a cop force who's roleplay level has decreased enormously.

Wrong steps were taken in the past, kicking on the one's who actually tried to roleplay here, giving the carelessly the space and right to do whatever they want on Argonath. Breaking rules, doing bad shit all over, continuing to spread a negative atmosphere, destroying the heart and small amount of roleplay being left behind. It's sad. It is really.

This is so true, 

[AK47]

 

[Jaka_Lah]

5 years ago people crying about no roleplay http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=47098.0;topicseen
..
if you bring on problems and no solutions you aren't helping anyone. I mean you were there 5 years ago Que.. you even replied to the topic, you know it's been going down hill since forever, just realize it will eventually die, deal with it and let it burn in front of your eyes, it has been fun on this side for me thus far..

[Que]

if you bring on problems and no solutions you aren't helping anyone.

I've spent more time than most of the people doing groups, roleplays and scenarios to benefit the server, helping new players to become really good roleplayers. Doesn't really matter what you do because the cop killaz has always had more room to keep on doing their shit to ruin it all for everyone else. All groups I had or made died because of the boredom of roleplaying alone, with every other group around the city doing nothing else but shooting and doing non-creative activities. That's the difference between the other server I used to play on, with 400 players online as we speak and Argonath with.. 10 players, with at least five who's AFK. And everything that is put on the table is that how shitty and bad that is, and the players there are, instead of actually see what they're doing to keep their players, community and activity rate so high, keeping the standard good and quantity of roleplay to the maximum with only a pretty basic script that is.

I don't wanna compare servers and stuff because that's totally wrong, but I think you get my point. I'm talking and comparing of the wellness of this community, after all I do own my own company and run an association as well. With that being said, the best way of getting something a lot better is to listen to people who has ideas, opinions and creativity. That's worth millions. Something that hasn't been done in the large amount it should've been.

It isn't too late, but it will never happen because people are too proud to face the real issues and save the heart of the community. Just like in a couple of posts, an individual, who has been around long enough will comment like "If you don't like it, leave" or "we don't listen to the majority" something like that. I mean, come on. Which part of the brain are you actually missing? The we and them-argument is cold dead and the ignorance of listening to people is just immature and dumb.

I mean you were there 5 years ago Que.. you even replied to the topic, you know it's been going down hill since forever, just realize it will eventually die, deal with it and let it burn in front of your eyes, it has been fun on this side for me thus far..

I have dealt with it. I'm not even playing anymore. I am on the forum just like everyone else because I like to write on English and enjoy one or two topics nowadays. It is just sad how things turned out when people even mentioned it, like you said, five years ago. It shocks me that people are surprised over this.


And at last.
Did you think a script would nail it all? You think that changing back to RS4 will save what has been? The good job they've done on RS5 is a piss in the lake because the ignorance of listening to people with ideas, thoughts and ambition. Give the hard working scripters the credit and help they deserve by listening to people who wants to save the community. Not by letting the cop killaz and the old junks of free cops getting their freedom of death matching all over. Focus on the roleplay, for once.

[Antonio.]

Saying that there are no players would be kind of false. In the evenings it usually gets to 30-40 - just as much as there was on RS4 in the afternoons.

I don't know why people are so proud to say that there are 30-40 players on the server (not to mention only sometimes) when we had much more in RS4. I wonder what RS4 you're talking about, because the one I know usually had over 100 players on...

A lot of those people who have supported RS5 from the beginning need to just come down and accept the fact that we're losing/lost players, and it's not because of "exams".

[AK47]

Antonio got a point.

How long has it been since release 2-3 months? I've been playing every day and I've been trying to keep the spirit it up but I can't do that anymore and I guess I'm not the only one.

The few remaining scripters are doing a great job (especially you Jones) but you need to realize that the server won't survive with around 1 scripter. Let players that know how to script and that want to help do it. It won't hurt you to try.

[Borus]

Also, are you basing this comparison on other "roleplay" servers? (nearly all of which are realistic or prison-RLRP servers)

Well, I do. Since most of these servers has the highest amount of good quality roleplay. And no, it isn't always about being super-serious and strict on these servers, it does actually happen weird events and roleplays there as well.  Been playing quite much on one of them in my previous years. Roleplay is top notch, community not so good.
Rules or not, the whole point with my previous reply was not to start a war between RLRP and Argonath once again, it was to actually show my honest opinion of why I actually think the community is spreading sideways and not at the same direction.

[Que]

Haha, da evilness of us RLRP:ers.

[Jaka_Lah]

A lot of those people who have supported RS5 from the beginning need to just come down and accept the fact that we're losing/lost players, and it's not because of "exams".

I just realized something, why didn't they listen to us?
When the beta started RS5 had 100 players, 30 minutes later when people played on it it had like 20, for the next weeks it was stuck on 0, than suddenly RS4 disappears, and people disappear..
We have been dropping hints, than I think Zaila or Devin said people will get rewards if they play on the server and report bugs.. they had to bribe their playerbase to make them play..

I mean personally I said fuck it since RS4 got erased, but I see people here trying to "fight the man" and "bring back RS4" I just can't fucking comprehend how hard headed you people are.

Neither the community, nor I am going anywhere. 2014 is the year we will start launching our own stuff that nobody will be able to rip off. MTA:VC has died, it seems SAMP in general is not doing too well and going the way of VCMP.
So we will need to find what people are playing together today and go in to that. We are not needing to stat stuck in one type of game or server, we simply will add that where people are already.

Our leader thinks SAMP is dying, so why would you try to bring back RS4..

We are certainly planning to upgrade, in fact RS5 was planned anyway as the last game mode to be released for SAMP.

So someone start fucking singing "this is the end" because there will be no RS6 that fixes everything, maybe small patches here and there, but nothing uber fucking fantastic.

And last of all, people haven't been roleplaying in RS4, stop forgetting that, people crying about RP is soooo 2009, it has been going down since forever.

So now it's on the scriters how fast they can fix the bugs in RS5 to make a pleasant experience for the playerbase that if falling immensely.

[Chris_Knight]

Gandalf left already,and people who are in doubt about it ,just have a blind hopes.
He doesn't owes anyone here anything,he got his family and life to take care of.

As about "stop this bla bla and lets gets community active",well I'll step by few months later,and I will still see those topics like this one and no changes,so does all of you.

[JDC]

He doesn't owes anyone here anything,he got his family and life to take care of.

wRONg.

People may see it as arrogant for anyone to state that Gandalf owes us something, but the truth of the matter is that (as the last remaining Owner after Aragorn) he does. But to phrase it more appropriately, even if he does have his life and family to look after, he has a responsibility to this community, just like anyone else in an oversight position has to their constituents. This may not take precedence over his life/family, but it does not erase the fact it is still there.

This is a form of social contract, where we (players, admins, HQ) are obligated to follow the directives of the owner/s, in exchange for the owner/s keeping the community open and afloat.

As the person who (literally) keeps the community running and the keeper of legal responsibility (which comes with the ownership) of Argonath RPG, the least he should do is inform even the HQ that/why he will be gone, and designate an Officer(s)-In-Charge who have the full authority and tools to keep things running until his return.

For SA:MP RPG, you could say this is Devin (or xcasio). However, the problem is that he (or they) do not have the full authority to implement changes that would turn this situation around; Devin's jurisdiction lies with all administrative matters (making groups official, appointing moderators, removing delinquent admins) and cannot interfere with development matters (scripting, appointment of scripters). It is xcasio who is in charge of placing scripters, and (unfortunately) we have not been seeing very much of him ever since the property system was reopened. (Update: Turns out Gimli has a lot of work; he was able to restart SA:MP though, so my apologies)

Unless all persons with the needed authority move together in the right direction, or unless all power is consolidated in / shared with one leader (who will lead ALL sides of SA:MP in Gandalf's absence, until he returns), this will continue to be a problem.

This is the unfortunate reality. I am not saying this out of the intent to create conflict or because I want to point fingers, but because all the efforts (such as the groups making a resurgence, my event initiative, new companies popping up to fill certain roles, etc) of players who want to contribute and keep this community afloat will not be enough unless the other parts of the chain can move as well.


The question of RLRP, for me, is a matter for another day/topic. Let's address the problem of the community management first.

[Jaka_Lah]

ANARCHY

[Mopreme]

Eeeeh what would you expect if gandalf was here as regards to the SAMP server? really?
A ton of signs throughout the past few months point to what most of us realized long ago; lack of will to fix what's broken.
They are becoming experts at looking the other way while their SAMP server is rotten more and more each day. JDC, did it go "step up, or shup up"? Seems like someone chose the latter and forgot about the stepping up part