What was Yugoslavia?

[Huntsman]

Hey there guys,

I was watching a documentary on Yugoslavian war which I find very interesting to be honest, pardon me for being so ignorant but I live in Baltic States where we don't really study any of the Balkan history. So, from what I've seen so far is that Yugoslavia was a certain Soviet Union kind of federation, where each of the country would have it's own military force, flag and government which would be controlled by one president of Yugoslavia? Is it correct? I don't really understand how it works because from what I've seen is that Serbians had military, Bosnians had military and even Serbian minority in Bosnia had a military.. How come? Please explain what Yugoslavia was and how did it work? Also please explain me why did Serbia start the Yugoslavian war? And why did the Bosnian president said "We will not be part of Serbian Yugoslavia"? What did that mean? That Serbians wanted to control Yugoslavia or what? Thank you.

[BojanS]

Hey there guys,

I was watching a documentary on Yugoslavian war which I find very interesting to be honest, pardon me for being so ignorant but I live in Baltic States where we don't really study any of the Balkan history. So, from what I've seen so far is that Yugoslavia was a certain Soviet Union kind of federation, where each of the country would have it's own military force, flag and government which would be controlled by one president of Yugoslavia? Is it correct? I don't really understand how it works because from what I've seen is that Serbians had military, Bosnians had military and even Serbian minority in Bosnia had a military.. How come? Please explain what Yugoslavia was and how did it work? Also please explain me why did Serbia start the Yugoslavian war? And why did the Bosnian president said "We will not be part of Serbian Yugoslavia"? What did that mean? That Serbians wanted to control Yugoslavia or what? Thank you.

Hello Rytuklis!
Yugoslavia was country that had Communistic regieme.
Mostly people were wealthy enough to plan normal life, going to vacations and such.
My parents lived in Sarajevo, Bosnia. I was born there. They had nice life. Father played drums in a band, mother was a Serbian teacher. Father also worked as a Journalyst in some Music magazine, related to Rock music. Also they had cassete renting store, or what's the correct name for it. Anyway, when war started they had to leave their home with my brother, and came to Serbia as refugees, to save our lives ofcourse. I am thankful to God, that he gave me life, and I did not lost my parents or brother.
Yugoslavia had awesome sport players, scientists, musicians, writers, and so on.. Artists of all kind of things.
Reason of war was, like official, everyone wanted individual part of the cookie, they wanted to divide, Serbians didn't want it, they wanted to rule blabla.
Truth is that it's probably because it was pain in the eye for some of World's "top class" people, or some debt. Mostly people here blaim USA for war. I believe it's true. Because after that war, life couldn't be the same. We still have people here who hate our neighbours, our countrymen before war. Basically it's NATO or whoever profiting from war. It was pure and simple-Divide and conquer. They used Yugoslavians vs Yugoslavians, burning people's hearts/minds. I am so sorry people couldn't get it. And still not getting it today! After Kosovo got independence, I heard that some people that were high ranks in NATO during the bombarding of Serbia in 1999. ( NATO Bombarded Serbia, because we... Didn't want to change president or something like that lol? ) are now Directors of companies that exploit rare minerals in Kosovo. ( Kosovo was known as a high source of Oil and rare minerals. Some of them are used in industry that makes cell phone batteries and such ). That's would be the shortest I can go, because this subject is.. Heavy.

Best regards, thanks for the interest.

BojanS

[Huntsman]

Hello Rytuklis!
Yugoslavia was country that had Communistic regieme.
Mostly people were wealthy enough to plan normal life, going to vacations and such.
My parents lived in Sarajevo, Bosnia. I was born there. They had nice life. Father played drums in a band, mother was a Serbian teacher. Father also worked as a Journalyst in some Music magazine, related to Rock music. Also they had cassete renting store, or what's the correct name for it. Anyway, when war started they had to leave their home with my brother, and came to Serbia as refugees, to save our lives ofcourse. I am thankful to God, that he gave me life, and I did not lost my parents or brother.
Yugoslavia had awesome sport players, scientists, musicians, writers, and so on.. Artists of all kind of things.
Reason of war was, like official, everyone wanted individual part of the cookie, they wanted to divide, Serbians didn't want it, they wanted to rule blabla.
Truth is that it's probably because it was pain in the eye for some of World's "top class" people, or some debt. Mostly people here blaim USA for war. I believe it's true. Because after that war, life couldn't be the same. We still have people here who hate our neighbours, our countrymen before war. Basically it's NATO or whoever profiting from war. It was pure and simple-Divide and conquer. They used Yugoslavians vs Yugoslavians, burning people's hearts/minds. I am so sorry people couldn't get it. And still not getting it today! After Kosovo got independence, I heard that some people that were high ranks in NATO during the bombarding of Serbia in 1999. ( NATO Bombarded Serbia, because we... Didn't want to change president or something like that lol? ) are now Directors of companies that exploit rare minerals in Kosovo. ( Kosovo was known as a high source of Oil and rare minerals. Some of them are used in industry that makes cell phone batteries and such ). That's would be the shortest I can go, because this subject is.. Heavy.

Best regards, thanks for the interest.

BojanS

Thank for your answer. It did indeed seem like an interesting political system over there, still , some of my questions remained unanswered:

I don't really understand how it works because from what I've seen is that Serbians had military, Bosnians had military and even Serbian minority in Bosnia had a military.. How come?

[Borus]

The whole Balkan/Yugoslav subject is very delicate, so I'll be as neutral as I can here for the sake of history. I myself am not the best informed person on this either, but I can, however, say that the state of Yugoslavia was absolutely NOT related to the Soviet Union as it maintained Yugoslavian Socialism under Josip Tito. The State was formed after the Second World War by the mentioned Tito, Partizan leader during the war, by uniting several Balkan states. Yugoslavia was also, on racial, religious and ethnical basis, very different within (Croatian Catholics, Serbian Orthodox Christians, Bosniak Muslims,...). It was, however, a very stable and wealthy state during Tito's regime.

After his death, trouble started occuring within the state, and nationalistic tensions were rising. Fights, riots, etc. started to occur up until the separation of several countries from Yugoslavia (Serbia) like Macedonia, Slovenia, etc. The separation of Slovenia caused the most shortest war in history (a week if I'm not wrong). Macedonia was not in war with Serbia after its seperation. The separation of Croatia and Bosnia were however the worst in terms of war. (Muslim part of) Bosnia had even suffered a genocide (which is proven by facts yet still denied by some people, mainly being Serbs) during the reign of Milosevic, Karadzic and military leader Mladic, who all went into hiding post-war period but were ultimately found and are now being procecuted.

Reason for the Bosnian war was that there were Serbs living within Bosnian borders, and did not want to seperate from Yugoslavia/Serbia, which caused an internal based conflict (as Bosnia consists of Bosnian Serbs, Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslim) and even Bosnian Croats). The Serbian part under the lead of Karadzic and Mladic were supported by Yugoslavian armies with the mission of ethnic cleansing of the muslim minority (see Srebrenica Genocide). Croatia was also at war with Serbia, but had suffered less as they could defend themselves. Croatia under Tudjman also waged war against the muslim minority in Bosnia, mainly at the Southern parts like Mostar, etc, but later on broke their contract with the Serbs in conquering of the land (and the killing of the minority that went with it). The war within Bosnia was finally stopped after UN bombings on Serbian territory. After this, the 'Dayton Agreement' was signed, authorizing the separation and acknowledging the federation of Bosnia & Hercegovina, having 3 seperated communities within: 'Republika Srpska' (Serbian part) - 'Bosnia' (Bosniak part) - Hercegovina (Croat part).

Nowadays, problems still occur within Bosnia (such as disagreements in between the three communities on political level, corruption, economical deficit, etc.) and Kosovo, which I unfortunately know not enough about to go deeper on. 

This is what happened in very general terms, with the main focus on the problems in Bosnia. I suggest you to do some thorough research yourself for more in-depth and detailed cases.

[yoske]

Yugoslavia had one army - JNA. Once war started, every side created an army to fight for it's goals. In Bosnia there were two armies - one of Bosnian muslims and one of Bosnian Serbs.

I may try to answer you questions but this is very complex matter. Answers might be a little biased, on other hand more truthful from western propaganda movies

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Pretty much the core of Yugoslavia has been explained, and about Kosovo unrightfully getting independance, it's indeed mostly because of the minerals. Why would the USA even bother about what happens between Serbs and Albanians? For them it was a great chance to obtain resources. If the Americans weren't so focused on the money, Kosovo would never be independant, which is why Albanians also proudly wave around American flags.

[nikos]

I never supported the sick travesty called Yugoslavia, unity of something that just doesn't go together and never should have, here is a trailer of a documentary which can really explain all the things you want to know



If you are willing to spare a couple of hour's on it you can find the whole documentary on youtube as well.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

I never supported the sick travesty called Yugoslavia, unity of something that just doesn't go together and never should have, here is a trailer of a documentary which can really explain all the things you want to know



If you are willing to spare a couple of hour's on it you can find the whole documentary on youtube as well.

Great unbiased documentary.
It shows how America portrayed Serbia as an agressor to have a reason to bomb Serbia, and in the process also bombing corporations like Yugo car factory to buy those facilities for a very low price.
Also funny how they entered and interfered in Kosovo to end conflict and bring order, while they took over the Trepča Mining complex. Now the west has their eye on Vojvodina because of its fertile soil.
Serbia has been screwed by immoral money hungry wolves, but it's invisible to the naked eye because of media and corruption. Joining the EU will bring nothing good. Foreign corporations will invest in Serbia, while Serbian corporations disappear. Look what happened to Croatia; A lot of money has been earned because of tourism by hotels and restaurants, but none of that money stayed in Croatia, it went directly to the owners in the west, for example Germany.
The elderly are too tired to fight the corruption after all they've been through, and the youngsters only value materialism.

[Antonio.]

Was the United States looking into Yugoslavian interests? Probably. But, the only ones to blame are those who wanted a Yugoslavia for themselves. In the end, it fucked up every ex. Yugoslavian state.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

But, the only ones to blame are those who wanted a Yugoslavia for themselves. In the end, it f**ked up every ex. Yugoslavian state.

Educate yourself on what actually happened.
America wanted to continue giving economical aid to the Yugoslavian states, but only if they proclaimed independence. Yugoslavian states started doing this which as predicted caused chaos, which gave America a "legal" opportunity to invade Yugoslavian states, especially Serbia, and expand their economy from there. They used the Yugoslavian states as colonies.
Not the desire for unity, but America's smart play and desire for money f**ked up every ex Yugoslavian state.
They helped Kosovo get independence now aswell, but literally all America is doing is using Kosovo as a colony. The Albanians can't do anything themselves that the Americans don't like.

[nikos]

It's gonna be interesting when the west drains out everything from those lands and retreats totally after they lose all interest.That's the reason why are they in this whole situation at first place, moral duty,humanity and all that other crap you can sell to the kids or you are just ignorant.

Yugoslavia was a sick creation, after all we went to in world war 2 and WW1,times between the great wars, all the massacres that the so called brothers did to one another, simply it was an impossible thing to last.
Again with the documentary, this one show's all the brutally's of the croat army in WW2.It has a lot of examples of the crimes they did, not just the numbers and stats. If you got the belly for it and an houre to spare watch it.It was made in the late 70's I think by Yugoslavia so its not Serbian propaganda and all the facts you need are there.



Tony, now I figured out where you got the name for  Argo 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonibler

[Antonio.]

Educate yourself on what actually happened.
America wanted to continue giving economical aid to the Yugoslavian states, but only if they proclaimed independence. Yugoslavian states started doing this which as predicted caused chaos, which gave America a "legal" opportunity to invade Yugoslavian states, especially Serbia, and expand their economy from there. They used the Yugoslavian states as colonies.
Not the desire for unity, but America's smart play and desire for money f**ked up every ex Yugoslavian state.
They helped Kosovo get independence now aswell, but literally all America is doing is using Kosovo as a colony. The Albanians can't do anything themselves that the Americans don't like.

Right, and just because I want to break in your house doesn't mean I'm just going to come in and do it, I'll obviously have to wait for you to leave so I can do so.

You watched one documentary and read a couple of articles on wikipedia and feel that you are the genius of Balkan history, however only common sense is needed to figure out that America wouldn't have been able to do anything to Yugoslavian states if they didn't allow it. Yugoslavia didn't need any benefits from United States until there wasn't anyone to keep everyone together. While we were pointing weapons at each other (which is what they were waiting for), United States already had Yugoslavia in their hands.

@Nikos - First time seeing that. :P

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Right, and just because I want to break in your house doesn't mean I'm just going to come in and do it, I'll obviously have to wait for you to leave so I can do so.

"obviously", you say it as if it's the most obvious thing in the world. I don't hope most Albanians share that cowardly way of thinking.
Tito invested a lot in Kosovo by establishing a university and schools and then inviting the Albanians to live there, as he wanted a bigger Yugoslavia. You were invited guests in Kosovo, and now, years later, you claim it as an independant land.
The only reason the Serbs left is because of bombings and discrimination from the Albanian side who felt untouchable with the Americans agains the Serbs. All the Albanians deserve now is a kick back to the isolated land they come from.

You watched one documentary and read a couple of articles on wikipedia and feel that you are the genius of Balkan history,

Useless remark, only shows your simplistic way of thinking. I didn't know you were an expert on what things I know.

however only common sense is needed to figure out that America wouldn't have been able to do anything to Yugoslavian states if they didn't allow it. Yugoslavia didn't need any benefits from United States until there wasn't anyone to keep everyone together. While we were pointing weapons at each other (which is what they were waiting for), United States already had Yugoslavia in their hands.

Which is what I said, yes. You are copying my words.

[Antonio.]

"obviously", you say it as if it's the most obvious thing in the world. I don't hope most Albanians share that cowardly way of thinking.

And I don't see how I am "cowardly thinking" because I'm not even defending anyone. If Albanians, Serbs, Bosnians, Croatians and aliens weren't looking to create independent countries, how do you expect others NOT to take advantage of you? Like Nikos pointed out, you would probably expect that from a country that was genocidal to each other not long before.

Tito invested a lot in Kosovo by establishing a university and schools and then inviting the Albanians to live there, as he wanted a bigger Yugoslavia. You were invited guests in Kosovo, and now, years later, you claim it as an independant land.
The only reason the Serbs left is because of bombings and discrimination from the Albanian side who felt untouchable with the Americans agains the Serbs. All the Albanians deserve now is a kick back to the isolated land they come from.
Useless remark, only shows your simplistic way of thinking. I didn't know you were an expert on what things I know.
Which is what I said, yes. You are copying my words.

And this is where you continue to jump on other topics because you're unworthy to give a reply on what I said, probably because you feel offended for something that you shouldn't be.

Tito wasn't "inviting" Albanians into Kosovo, he let Albanians return that were expelled from Kosovo during 1918 through 1941. Through these years Serbia had a colonization programme where they were expelling and killing Albanians, and then brought Serbs in Kosovo to give them free land and houses, in return that they live there forever, obviously in order to try to make Kosovo an ethnic Serb majority.

During this programme, thousands of Albanians were expelled to Turkey, and if you take a few minutes to search on Youtube, you will find documentaries about Albanians in Turkey and how they got there.

All the Albanians deserve now is a kick back to the isolated land they come from.

And where would that be, Mr. KnowItAll?

Useless remark, only shows your simplistic way of thinking. I didn't know you were an expert on what things I know.
Which is what I said, yes. You are copying my words.

I couldn't be an expert on those things because you don't really know much...

What we both said as actually quite the opposite. You stated that United States got the "legal" away of invading Yugoslavia when the Yugoslavian states wanted the economical aid. That means that this happened near the end of the fall of Yugoslavia, when everyone started to fight each other, which again makes my statement true.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

And I don't see how I am "cowardly thinking" because I'm not even defending anyone. If Albanians, Serbs, Bosnians, Croatians and aliens weren't looking to create independent countries, how do you expect others NOT to take advantage of you? Like Nikos pointed out, you would probably expect that from a country that was genocidal to each other not long before.
And this is where you continue to jump on other topics because you're unworthy to give a reply on what I said, probably because you feel offended for something that you shouldn't be.

I was talking about the Albanians on Kosovo proclaiming it independant and "taking" the land when the Serbs were in a position where they couldn't react. That's what I found cowardly. Kosovo has been part of Serbia for many many years and has been recognized as part of Serbia since it was conquered. The fact that moneyhungry countries signed some papers doesn't mean Kosovo is not still Serbian.

And this is where you continue to jump on other topics because you're unworthy to give a reply on what I said, probably because you feel offended for something that you shouldn't be.

What are you even talking about

Tito wasn't "inviting" Albanians into Kosovo, he let Albanians return that were expelled from Kosovo during 1918 through 1941. Through these years Serbia had a colonization programme where they were expelling and killing Albanians, and then brought Serbs in Kosovo to give them free land and houses, in return that they live there forever, obviously in order to try to make Kosovo an ethnic Serb majority.

During this programme, thousands of Albanians were expelled to Turkey, and if you take a few minutes to search on Youtube, you will find documentaries about Albanians in Turkey and how they got there.

The fact that only Albanians who were earlier expelled returned is purely your opinion.
But let's say that that is true (which it isn't because entrance to Kosovo was free for Albanians and no papers were needed), they would still be invited guests.

I couldn't be an expert on those things because you don't really know much...

If you try to be funny next time, do it correctly and atleast act as if you were smart.
If I don't really know much, and you aware of this, then you would indeed be an expert on the things I know.

What we both said as actually quite the opposite. You stated that United States got the "legal" away of invading Yugoslavia when the Yugoslavian states wanted the economical aid. That means that this happened near the end of the fall of Yugoslavia, when everyone started to fight each other, which again makes my statement true.

And why did Yugoslavia fall? Because many Yugoslavian states proclaimed independence.
Why did they proclaim independence? Because the USA pressured them to do so.