MOVED: SA:MP Moderator Wave - 15th May 2014

[CBFasi]

It's with pleasure Zailia has announced a new moderator wave. The following are now accepted as SA:MP moderators:

• =AV=Andrew_Banks
• [WS]Manoni_Kolta
• Abraham_Corleone
• Traser_Gvardia

Congratulations to you 4, and welcome to the team.

Before you will recieve your rights, you need to go through an orientation with HQ in which you will recieve additional information. Please contact one of us ingame, on skype or through PM so we can set up the meeting with you.

To the rest, we will keep the applications open for a couple of weeks and then evaluate if we need more staff members or not. If we do, we will make a new wave of moderators to join the team or we will close the applications until we feel we need more members.

Once again, congratulations to those choosen.


All follows ups removed.. see below

[CBFasi]

I must thank all the new moderators for being willing to give up their time to not play but help in the administration of the server.

However ...


It became clear from some of the answers that some of you think choosing moderators is about being just a helper and close friends with others already in the admin teams...

This is NOT the case, and anyone who thinks that is all we consider then might as well stick you head in the sand and ass up, cos that's how much you really know.

I had to laugh at the comments regarding a player who apparently joined samp only a very short time ago... yet how come I recognize him from YEARS ago.
Many of you are NOT long term members here so are NOT aware of the long term efforts some players have made, and also do not know members who have been away for a while.

I also find it extremely annoying that some players think they got overlooked because another player is a veteran...

We look at a wider picture and take input from a number of high level staff who have had chance to observe those that have been suggested for the wave.


I had to remove the topic from view because some of our staff said things that should NOT be said in public, part of an agreement they accept when they join the team.  In simple admin matters stay with admins.

Yes there HAS been some disagreement with the admin team, and this is being looked at, but as far as you the public are concerned we are putting the server first and out problems are not allowed to affect the day-to-day running of the server.

One thing that however has become very very clear is the amount of shit our staff take on this forum and in game because we do not do want you want us to do, we do not react how you want us to react..

Many complain about no respect, well no wonder when you treat admins as your slaves who must do your bidding..

Dis-respect a member of staff who has voluntarily given up their play time to help administer the server and yes we will be very heavy on punishment, we DO NO DESERVE the dis-respect that no matter what you think.

Remember, you may be allowed to have your opinion and you may think you can say that anywhere, but actually this forum and this server CAN and is LEGALLY allowed to tell you what you CANNOT say.

[Scars]

If you don't wish people to complain then make a fair selection. Don't accept people because their past, accept for those who do dedicate their time helping your server and contributing with something. I'm not saying the fact that those who you did accept are not capable to take care of their duty but there are some who really deserves it , yet they're getting ignored. The logic is definitely pathetic, don't mind me but HQ should pay more attention for those who contribute in a way or another. Everyone should receive the opportunity, not because they've been a pest in the past, maybe they really changed. What kind of example do you give to players? That they can't receive the opportunity to help the server because they did not play 7 years? . What happened should remain in the past. There's a new era on-going on Argonath so don't say shits like x or y has been a good admin in the past and that's why he got accepted. Jesus Christ, you wish to be a bigger community but you rather make your own players feel like they're nothing. A player is considered for his punishment history? Lol, you almost made me laugh. If the respective player changed then he should be rewarded if he's doing something positively or not. Players should be accepted for their contribution towards the server, not because they have playing for a long time.

If you wish to remove my post do it, but I'm just saying my opinion.

[JDC]

If you don't wish people to complain then make a fair selection. Don't accept people because their past, accept for those who do dedicate their time helping your server and contributing with something. I'm not saying the fact that those who you did accept are not capable to take care of their duty but there are some who really deserves it , yet they're getting ignored. The logic is definitely pathetic, don't mind me but HQ should pay more attention for those who contribute in a way or another. Everyone should receive the opportunity, not because they've been a pest in the past, maybe they really changed. What kind of example do you give to players? That they can't receive the opportunity to help the server because they did not play 7 years? . What happened should remain in the past. There's a new era on-going on Argonath so don't say shits like x or y has been a good admin in the past and that's why he got accepted. Jesus Christ, you wish to be a bigger community but you rather make your own players feel like they're nothing. A player is considered for his punishment history? Lol, you almost made me laugh. If the respective player changed then he should be rewarded if he's doing something positively or not. Players should be accepted for their contribution towards the server, not because they have playing for a long time.

If you wish to remove my post do it, but I'm just saying my opinion.

That's the point. Those who were accepted are making valuable contributions to RS5, many of which came in when the server was still in its critical recovery phase.

Just because someone has changed, that does not mean that their reward should be a staff position. That does not mean that they are a good moderator candidate. If you think that you are entitled to a position because you helped out, then you do not deserve that reward at all.

As you seem to be needing some insights , I will quote one of my posts in the moved topic...

Spoiler for Hiden:

A few insights.

(and for those who will reply to these points with spam such as "tl;dr", sorry but I do not translate for cavemen)

1. The process of choosing new moderators is not a joke, nor skewed, nor unfairly biased. It requires a lot of background checks and a lot of factors to be taken into consideration; someone may appear helpful at first impression, yet hidden logs may reveal an unsuitable attitude, tendency to rulebreak, etc. Not to mention admin punishments.

2. If you think that people are chosen because "they suck up to an unfair, high-and-mighty admin team", then I advise you get off your high horse and learn to accept the fact that the administration is tasked with keeping order here, whether you like it or not. And as the leaders of the administration, the HQ is responsible for making sure people are chosen because they can do the job, not just because they feel (or their friends feel) that they can.

3. Zaila and Devin did not make arbitrary decisions when choosing the new moderators. To ensure the quality of new moderators (we can't make everyone moderators, can we?), those chosen are taken from the most deserving of the remaining applicants. "Most deserving" would mean those who fit the criteria and possess the most promising potential to become good administrators.

4. While many of those who were not chosen do not deserve a post for at least one valid reason, it does not follow that everyone (potentially) deserving of a post, yet not chosen, is automatically unsuitable to become a moderator just because they did not make it to the top of the list. As Devin said, there will be future waves, future chances, and future recruits.

5. Just because you help out and you feel that you deserve the post, it does not follow that you will be accepted into the team. If you expect otherwise and feel that the HQ is obligated to give you a position because you believe in your contributions, then you are not deserving; go find another community. Argonath does not deserve power-hungry moderators who feel that they are entitled to a post.

6. Those who dream of joining the team, yet decided to moan in this topic (or anywhere at all!) against those who were chosen, have pretty much just killed all their chances off. If you decide to become a drama queen and shit-talk simply because you were not chosen, then you've obviously proven you don't deserve any chances at all in the near future.

7. Your "opinion" of who should be chosen is not automatically concurrent with the criteria of who can best serve and protect the community. Decisions are not made at one person's whim, and the list of candidates is submitted for deliberation and further refining before it is finally announced. This especially goes for the moaners in this topic; your behavior has proven all the more why the HQ was right in their decision.

8. While some (potentially) deserving candidates were overlooked this time, people who really want to serve and help will do it with or without a position. A rank can be changed in an hour or a day, but the genuine willingness of someone to serve this community (and be an example of a rule-abiding, worthy player) is something much harder both to gain and take away. Those who truly help out this community for the sake of helping will eventually get the rewards that they deserve.

Did you already know all of these? Good.
Did you learn something new? Even better.
Did you read and understand, yet still feel bad about the selection? Maybe it's time to reflect if the real problem is with yourself or not.


I do apologize to the latest wave for posting that here, but these are some points that everyone needs to keep in mind.

I personally am very familiar with all the new moderators, and I can say that they all have the potential to become exemplary staff. Whether or not their performance delivers up to their potential would be their own choice in the end, but we- the rest of the team- would be there to help them achieve that in the meantime.

So may the moaners please shut up, and let's first see how they do as moderators before we judge them, shall we?

Once again, congratulations!

[CBFasi]

Yes your opinion, and I have some responses to help you understand a little more and also why some of what you say has no logic due to lack of information that your not entitled to know


There are many players who do deserve the right to be admins, some just do not want to be, some do and apply, however we do limit the numbers (and we are not finished)

A player who has been here years may not be as suitable a a player who has been here 4 weeks,, that is part of the assessments that the senior staff need to make.

As for making players feel like they are worth nothing ?  They have our thanks as members of the community.
Are you saying we should make players admins just cos they help others ? I hope not cos that is definitely the wrong impression.

To become a moderator or admin is giving up the freedom of a normal player who can do and say what they want within the rules.. the benefit of an admin or moderator is actually more restrictions ... but an official ability to help.

As for the past, it does have a part to play, punishment history that shows a player was bad once but has improved is good, but recent history is not good, it has to be proved to us and the rest of the server that the player is capable of understanding why the rules are what they are enough to explain it to others and being someone who breaks those same rules shows a lack of understanding or just total ignorance..

As for helping players... all players, especially those with the experience should be helping others out, unless your being a self centered person who does not care about others ..

It does NOT take being an admin or moderator to be able to help others, I know that for fact, cos that is how I started, its also partly why I never asked for promotions ...  I did not need to, I was asked...

All players have it in them to help, but its a personal choice and part of what we have to asses is why a person is helping others, do they want something out of it, or do they just like helping, many are the latter, but some are the former.  I do NOT know which the guys in the moderator wave were but I hope the latter ..

Knowing you have helped someone with no thanks, and little recognition is actually a good thing, it show that its your nature, your not expecting from it, but sadly too many people want something for something as that's pretty much what is happening in RL, well its NOT rl.  Maybe giving without payment will make some realize it adds to enjoyment and better relationships with others that you would otherwise never give a shit about.

[Scars]

I see people getting accepted for not even trying to achieve the rank. Help players =/= contribute the server. Yes, helping players is a contribution but you look like you got my point totally wrong. I'm saying those who actually struggle to get it, to help the community, to improve it are the ones who deserve to be a moderator/admin. That's why people should be accepted. Not because the respective player has contributed the community in another server, he is supposed to be accepted because of his dedication to your server.

You say people are getting appreciated for their work.. uhm, what? You sure we're both talking about Argonath? I never seen a player getting even a damn thank you from anyone which makes a lot of players lose their motivation, feel awkward. And exactly the opposite, you accept people who did not even pay attention on his own application which is just.. lol.

Your logic is totally wrong, in my eyes. Accepting people because HQ thinks they would be capable of taking care of admin related stuff? No, everyone should have his own chance of being accepted. There are many people who try to get the rank because they wish to help your damn community but they're getting unobserved.

Okay. Player X has been a good administrator in the past, helped the community. Good for him, he has my respect. But you shouldn't ignore other people who work their asses off to make your community better. Then you should make moderator applicaitons only for veterans, ex-admins. No one would moan then.

And no, I'm not talking about myself.

[Scars]

That's the point. Those who were accepted are making valuable contributions to RS5, many of which came in when the server was still in its critical recovery phase.

I don't think so, not all of them. And I'm pretty sure it's not only my opinion. Nowadays players feel frightened to assert their own words, own opinion because they know the fact that they would be considered as moaners then. If you would make an anonymously poll stating that if all of the recently accepted moderators list was deserved, you'd be surprised after seeing the outcomes.

I'm not moaning nor trying to. My point is not that. My point is that the moderator recruitments should be honest and rightfully. Not because they've been an administrator before. That's a ridiculos logic. I'm not stating the fact that everyone who helps in a way or another deserves the moderator position, those who CONTRIBUTE should be. It's unfair seeing people getting accepted due to a stupid reason and others being ignored. Why? Maybe not everyone will be a succesfully administrator but still, everyone should get the opportunity.

[Devin]

I've had a colourful past with punishment, with issues caused and even bans. People are always given a chance to prove themselves despite punishment history.

[JDC]

I don't think so, not all of them. And I'm pretty sure it's not only my opinion. Nowadays players feel frightened to assert their own words, own opinion because they know the fact that they would be considered as moaners then. If you would make an anonymously poll stating that if all of the recently accepted moderators list was deserved, you'd be surprised after seeing the outcomes.

I'm not moaning nor trying to. My point is not that. My point is that the moderator recruitments should be honest and rightfully. Not because they've been an administrator before. That's a ridiculos logic. I'm not stating the fact that everyone who helps in a way or another deserves the moderator position, those who CONTRIBUTE should be. It's unfair seeing people getting accepted due to a stupid reason and others being ignored. Why? Maybe not everyone will be a succesfully administrator but still, everyone should get the opportunity.

You are the one who does not see things correctly.

While you're at it, you may as well get to the point directly and say that you think our recruitment system is fraudulent and dishonest, because that's exactly what you are pointing out with your words.

Who is in the best position to see who has contributed to the community? The administration, especially the HQ, for the simple and obvious reason that we have access to logs (and hidden forum posts) and more information than any single regular player can hope to access. Due to this, we know the issues that are plaguing the community, as well as who has been helping us address the said issues (in simpler terms, "contributing") especially in the dark times of RS5's start, when the server was threatening to fall apart.

These people were not accepted for "stupid" reasons, and everyone has the opportunity to become admin depending on their own actions. It's just that we have to limit the numbers of those accepted in a single wave, and many applicants do not meet the criteria for the team.

Make a poll? This community cannot even have a single Oscars that isn't plagued with widespread cheating, so quantity / "voice of the majority" is only a suicidal way to go if you actually want to choose quality admins. Hence why recruitment process is long and tedious, as there may be things about the player not visible to the public that makes him/her unsuitable to become an admin.

To inform you once again:

2. If you think that people are chosen because "they suck up to an unfair, high-and-mighty admin team", then I advise you get off your high horse and learn to accept the fact that the administration is tasked with keeping order here, whether you like it or not.

4. While many of those who were not chosen do not deserve a post for at least one valid reason, it does not follow that everyone (potentially) deserving of a post, yet not chosen, is automatically unsuitable to become a moderator just because they did not make it to the top of the list.

7. Your "opinion" of who should be chosen is not automatically concurrent with the criteria of who can best serve and protect the community. Decisions are not made at one person's whim, and the list of candidates is submitted for deliberation and further refining before it is finally announced.

8. While some (potentially) deserving candidates were overlooked this time, people who really want to serve and help will do it with or without a position. A rank can be changed in an hour or a day, but the genuine willingness of someone to serve this community (and be an example of a rule-abiding, worthy player) is something much harder both to gain and take away. Those who truly help out this community for the sake of helping will eventually get the rewards that they deserve.

And to add to what Devin said: while people are still given a chance to prove themselves, it is also their choice whether or not they blow the chances given to them. That can play a factor as well in their selection.

[AK47]

I've had a colourful past with punishment, with issues caused and even bans. People are always given a chance to prove themselves despite punishment history.

Same here .. 

[CBFasi]

I'm saying those who actually struggle to get it, to help the community, to improve it are the ones who deserve to be a moderator/admin. That's why people should be accepted.

Actually that would be totally the wrong reason by itself, but it  does play a part of the whole decision making process.

Not because the respective player has contributed the community in another server, he is supposed to be accepted because of his dedication to your server.

That other players you keep bringing up, has been a SAMP player a lot longer than you AND has actually exceed even your own requirements for moderator, never mid an admin, he has dedicated a huge amount of time helping Argonath and in particular our SAMP server just because you have not seen it does not mean it has not happened .. again its why we do not rely on one persons view...

You say people are getting appreciated for their work.. uhm, what? You sure we're both talking about Argonath? I never seen a player getting even a damn thank you from anyone which makes a lot of players lose their motivation, feel awkward. And exactly the opposite, you accept people who did not even pay attention on his own application which is just.. lol.

I think you missed the bit where it points out help should be provide without requirement of thanks... its the appreciation of satisfaction that you as a player have helped someone and you have not had any formal recognition for it..

Your logic is totally wrong, in my eyes. Accepting people because HQ thinks they would be capable of taking care of admin related stuff? No, everyone should have his own chance of being accepted. There are many people who try to get the rank because they wish to help your damn community but they're getting unobserved.

Okay. Player X has been a good administrator in the past, helped the community. Good for him, he has my respect. But you shouldn't ignore other people who work their asses off to make your community better.

We do not ignore them, you have no idea what is going on in the staff discussions and yet again have NO right to know... STOP making assumptions on something you have little knowledge about.

Then you should make moderator applicaitons only for veterans, ex-admins. No one would moan then.

That would be unfair as we do find some good moderators/admins in the newer players.

I'm not moaning nor trying to. My point is not that.

I think you already proving you are..

My point is that the moderator recruitments should be honest and rightfully.

They are honest, but clearly not in your opinion, we do not go buy one persons view, we have multiple assessments

Not because they've been an administrator before. That's a ridiculos logic.

Agreed that is why some ex admins have been denied...

It's unfair seeing people getting accepted due to a stupid reason and others being ignored.

I do not think there has been any stupid reasons, and believe me when looking and the admin discussion over this wave there is nothing stupid there.

Why? Maybe not everyone will be a succesfully administrator but still, everyone should get the opportunity.

I say not, because there are many who do not deserve that opportunity due to their actions.

[Scars]

I've had a colourful past with punishment, with issues caused and even bans. People are always given a chance to prove themselves despite punishment history.

Prove it. Words are not enough.

Same here .. 

Mhm, sure. Let me ask you something, where are you from?

[AK47]

Mhm, sure. Let me ask you something, where are you from?

Sweden, why?

[Brian]

Prove it. Words are not enough.

Mhm, sure. Let me ask you something, where are you from?

I am the living proof.
I have been banned 5 times maybe 6 and have had a huge ammount of punishments. I changed and look where I am at now.

[Archie]

I am the living proof.
I have been banned 5 times maybe 6 and have had a huge ammount of punishments. I changed and look where I am at now.

Wow. Banning 6 times, really good. Well done Brian.