VCPD Academy and Application Process Changes suggestion discussion

[Huntsman]

Hello my fellow VC:MP'ers,

As many of you have noticed, I have hinted on some of my post that I have a strict opinion that the whole VCPD Application and Academy process is way too outdated and just doesn't work anymore. As a result, I have engaged in a conversation with the VCPD Chief Legend, discussing various possibilities of how the application system and the academy could work. After the discussion, me and Legend have both agreed to publish these ideas for the public so you guys can comment, critisize or support the ideas. Bear in mind that this is a direct copy-paste from the skype conversation:

I said:
"Anyways, as I pointed out in my reply, in my opinion, the application process takes way too long. VC:MP is a small community and every player is important, and due to that, whenever the player applies for VCPD and is forced to wait for way too long, he looses interest. Just look at the rejected board of the application, most of the applications were rejected due to lost of interest or due to the fact that the applicants left the server during the application process. In my opinion, to keep the applicants up with how they're doing, there must be way greater communication with them on the application. Now, as I was typing, I actually came up with an idea. I think that there should be guidelines on which the cadets acceptance would depend on. For example, in order to be accepted as a cadet, he/she must complete serveral assignments given to them, for example: 1. Prove his roleplay abilities by interacting with the players, 2. Participate in 3 VCPD activities. 3. Post a daily patrol report and etc. When the application handler checks the applicants application, he should let him know when his application would be reviewed again, and what flaws his application has, what he has to achieve during the reviewal process and so on. Once the reviewal stage, which in my opinion the best would be one week, would be passed, the application manager then takes a look at the applicants progress so far, his reports, his relations with the server and would determine, whenever the applicant is ready to learn in the academy or he must be given more time to prepare and fix the flaws. In my opinion, the reviewal process should be extended only three times, and after the third time the application handler should finally decide if the applicant is ready for his acceptance, or he must be rejected and apply when he thinks he's ready. Also, I think there should some kind of minor entry exam that would consist of simple server related questions. Just to make sure that VCPD's not dealing with a completely new player who doesn't even know how to type in local chat. In my opinion, this method would be way faster, however, it would be more difficult for the players to get in, but it wouldn't take a month like it mostly does now.
And the whole academy needs a re-view and reformation. I honestly enjoyed going through all the sessions with you, Legend, however, it looked very spontaneous and improvised, I think it needs an exact system with exact guidelines, markings and so on."

Which was met by Legends argument: "Regarding entrance exams, dedicated assignments, patrol reports and a 3 tier review system, don't you think that is counter productive? That exponentially lengthens the system : )
Each applicant would have to go through each of these stages, individually, and then the training system itself"

I replied:
Yes, they might need to go over a lot of steps,  however, they'll feel that they are ACTUALLY progressing, which means they wont loose interest as quick and won't be stuck on the application process itself for like months.

[Kessu]

I feel this is more of an idea discussion so moved it here.


VCPD management needs to have a roleplay discussion with the applicant, and if it goes as planned accept him as cadet. Then train them. Takes about a week to get this sorted out. Now in the cadet school you should have the guidelines set and he needs to do things "your way".

I see that as the best way to teach and train VCPD applicants and keeping their interest up high. If they start breaking the rules and what not you can remove him just as quickly you accepted him and there will be no harm on VCPD's reputation.

The same logic applies even when selecting admins, you just don't know what they're capable of until you give them a good chance to show it

[Huntsman]

I see what you are suggesting, but I don't think that the VCPD Command can determine applicants capabilities and his actual character from a simple roleplay discussion. In my opinion, atleast a week period of reviewal is needed, since this will show how is the applicant doing with the rest of the server player base, can he keep his cool, can he come along with other people and resist provocations and so on. However, to keep the applicants interest high up, just as soon as the application manager would see the applicants application, he'd review it, point out the applications flaws, and if he met the person in game before, point out the things he need to fix with his in game attitude and so on. Then he says the exact date when he'll be given a heads up about his progress in the application process, which shouldn't be longer than a week. Then he's given that week to improve and try and prove VCPD that he's department material, perhaps also give him an assignment or a few to see how he can do. If within a week an application manager is satisfied, he would accept him into the academy, if not, he would extend the application process for one more week. It could be extended for maximum of three times, and when the third time is reached, the application management would have to decide to either give him a chance or to reject him so he can have unlimited time to improve and re-apply.

[Kessu]

I don't like the fact that you're tying to imply assignments to an applicant. Cadet, yes, but an applicant? That's a big no-no for me

[Huntsman]

I don't like the fact that you're tying to imply assignments to an applicant. Cadet, yes, but an applicant? That's a big no-no for me

The assignment part can be dropped, still, I see no reason why not? These assignments would be something easy, such as participate in 3 VCPD patrols or do roleplay interactions with the citizens or other officers and so on. The second way is that they wouldn't have to be mendatory. These assignments could be given out but it would be applicants choice to do them or not, however, they could and should influence the application managers decision to extend or not to extend the application reviewal process, though.

[Nylez]

I guess that's a pretty fair idea.
Someone who applies to VCPD should show the VCPD why he or she is worthy to join the VCPD.
And these simple tasks can do that.
It's how it should be in my book.
Yet, do not lose the big picture here, VCPD has different classes of speciality.
One is good in combat, another is good in pursuit, and a third one might be good in roleplaying.
When doing these assignments, it's needed from the VCPD to let their applicants show what kind of talent they have, and not to be denied if they fail one assignment, or get accepted after completing one.

[Huntsman]

I guess that's a pretty fair idea.
Someone who applies to VCPD should show the VCPD why he or she is worthy to join the VCPD.
And these simple tasks can do that.
It's how it should be in my book.
Yet, do not lose the big picture here, VCPD has different classes of speciality.
One is good in combat, another is good in pursuit, and a third one might be good in roleplaying.
When doing these assignments, it's needed from the VCPD to let their applicants show what kind of talent they have, and not to be denied if they fail one assignment, or get accepted after completing one.

I'm pretty sure that these talents can be revealed during the academy process

[JDC]

A VCPD Applicant has no "official" ties to the organization (other than the leverage of their application's approval/denial) and should not be given "assignments" the same way Cadets are.

As someone who's trained different kinds of law enforcement (and eventually admins) for years, I would say that having "special tasks" for applicants would not be as effective as observing the natural state of the applicant. Applicants going on ride-alongs and cooperation with VCPD staff is okay, but having "special tasks" is not a very effective gauge of a player's overall suitability, as all you would see is the applicant trying to impress Command.

You can draw a parallel to admin selection by mod-applicant players who go and help new players or act like wannabe-moderators when the HQ is around just to impress, rather than mod-applicant players proving themselves suitable by showing that their natural behavior is one worthy of emulation.

Why think of it like the admin selection process? You won't know the true colors of a player if all they're doing is trying to impress the Management, as compared to when you see him in his natural state. And when admins are being selected, the criteria used is how the player truly behaves, not how good he is at trying to impress the Management.

The application system doesn't need 10000 more exams or "assignments", but more qualified (emphasis on "qualified") instructors who know how to objectively keep tabs on applicants, while showing enough of VCPD to keep the interest at a good level.

In addition to that though, I had no qualms about the following:

If they start breaking the rules and what not you can remove him just as quickly you accepted him and there will be no harm on VCPD's reputation.

The same logic applies even when selecting admins, you just don't know what they're capable of until you give them a good chance to show it

Also that giving someone the best chance to prove themselves involves letting them show who they really are, rather than seeing how good they are at licking your ass.

[Nylez]

Well I think it would be good for applicants to show what they're good at, instead of following a strict protocol.

And as we're talking about making VCPD more active, I do not see any problem in adding some exams which give applicants a quicker way to get into VCPD.

In the past sometimes an application was pending for 6 months because there was nobody to actually see if the applicants were worthy enough to be part of VCPD.

Why not make a more clear and a more easy way to give new players a chance to be part of a community.

That way you'll encourage new players to show more often in the server.

Why think of it like the admin selection process? You won't know the true colors of a player if all they're doing is trying to impress the Management, as compared to when you see him in his natural state. And when admins are being selected, the criteria used is how the player truly behaves, not how good he is at trying to impress the Management.

As I said in the comment above, give applicants the chance to show what they're good at by variating the different assignments Rytuklis is talking about. I am very curious what your >Rytuklis< plans are, and I could even help you set some assignments up if needed.

[Huntsman]

Okay, I see. The special assignments idea might be ruled out, however, what do you think about the fastened up application process with the 1-week-reviewal system?

As I said in the comment above, give applicants the chance to show what they're good at by variating the different assignments Rytuklis is talking about. I am very curious what your >Rytuklis< plans are, and I could even help you set some assignments up if needed.

At the moment I want to pass my own Cadet stage first 

[Kessu]

VCPD management needs to have a roleplay discussion with the applicant, and if it goes as planned accept him as cadet. Then train them. Takes about a week to get this sorted out. Now in the cadet school you should have the guidelines set and he needs to do things "your way".

Brings me back to my first post