Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.

[Daco]

And a pretty similar thing happened with me in last few days where Hidduh was trucking around, earning money and we tried to rob him where he said 'He's not in mood to roleplay'(get-out-of-rp-free card so that he won't get robbed or die of not complying and keeps earning money by trucking) and reported us. Then there was this admin, I don't remember his name told us not go after him as he doesn't wants to roleplay and for this my fellow partner Luke was also temp banned as he denied of not going after him.
Anyways, It's good that it's clear now

Taking the coward's way out.
RP not being forced certainly doesn't mean reporting people for insisting on doing so, I mean it's not that hard to have a quick death by not complying in character..

[jovanca]

Spoiler for Hiden:

There is no such thing as a "straight up disrespectful" thing in RP, if people know the difference between RL and RP. Imagine if actors would take it personal to everything that is being said towards them in the movie scripts. boy oh boy...

A kidnap is only as boring as the kidnappers want it to be, most people just shove the victim in a room, gagged and leave them there, even recently that happened to me (You guys know who you are, take no offense, but gagging someone in a RP is just asking me to go AFK for a while).
Kidnap them but give them RP possibilities to escape, let them speak, let them interact, good God it's not that hard is it'

The main problems in here, besides the lack of RP rules which makes some RP scenarios completely moronic and weird (bad weird), is that people don't want to be on the loosing side of a RP and/or don't think that the RP is supposed to be fun for both sides and lead the RP to something that just involves fun for one party involved.

Seriously, this community could be the best RP community in both MTA and SAMP if there were actual control and rules in RP but maintaining the relaxed RP view of Argonath, make it a LIGHT RP server instead of a FREE RP server, no one's asking for a RL RP thing (which sucks donkey balls and we all know it), just simple things to keep the flow of the RP going, like not using PM to call for help, or /radio the police when you got your radio taken off in RP, or not being allowed to commit crimes openly in Pershing Square which is obvious cop baiting...

And halle-f**kin-lujah, a big AMEN and THANK YOU to the Angels of Death, Grove Street Families and 18th Street Barrio for bringing some actual decent and controlled RP aswell as VARIETY, kind of sick of Mafia vs Cop bull.

Spoiler for Hiden:

I would also like to point out that I have observed that lack of mental skill(?) from players to acknowledge what Argonath's vision really means leads to several issues. The most ridiculous thing is going to kidnap someone and he does " /em plz no force rp go read argonath vision "... and trust me it's a regular annoying sight.

If you don't understand how RP works then at least DO NOT open new families which you lead. I don't mean to say I'm better, but I have openned my own group after gaining some experience by serious roleplay families like Sforza and many others. You need knowledge to lead a group, because if you lack roleplaying skills and your members follow what you say.. then boom. You have a nice group of people causing trouble.

Please re-read aargonath's vision and some other important stickies at the groups and families boards, if you can't find them then PM me and I will show you.

If you are really willing to do something, it will happen. Don't be the people who post 'nothing changes, argo sux' waiting for the day everything will magically change. Roll up your sleves and get to working if you want something to change for good.

I have to say that each of your posts hits the point here, and i completly agree with you guys.
I also have to add that i think the reason for so many newly opened groups with actual lack of roleplay skill and experience is that those people mostly get denied from the groups they applied to join. I do think that the recognized and official groups should not be too easy to accept people who could (maybe) ruin their reputation, but they should not be too fast denying those people either. Instead of that, try teaching them. Try showing them how to do better than they did so far. Remember, we don't play against each other here, we all play together.

[TonySforza]

If people can make it work by using common snese, why do you need to make it a rule? Spread it by example, make people understand it is more fun if you do it without shortcuts.

It's easier to convince the minority than to convince the majority, on said division the majority had common sense and the minority easily embraced and followed.

[Huntsman]

When we get a 911 saying "I kindapped somebody" we simply ignore it. Why? No kidnapper would ever call 911 himself. He would want his relatives to pay the money without involving the police. Those who call the cops are simply looking for a cheap DM fest.

[AlSforza]

So... You can't bribe a person in an RP fashion way? Wasn't there a trial going on? What would prevent the briberies from happening in game, for example?

Yes there was a section on Argonath that made the "lead by example" thing work, you know why? Because we were fewer and the administration team had the time AND THE PATIENCE (focus on that point, yes I'm saying some have no patience or overall intention) to explain things and resolve situations. In a server with 50 players daily? They can't do everything. Rules are necessary to maintain even a light RP. These are not enough. And the lead by example thing in SAMP won't work while there are players that don't give a s**t about the others and if they're having fun or not. gief muni style.

[JackWhite]

If you can not handle direct language then you can f*ck off.

Well, thanks. This is what I have been trying to say countless times on this server, and been banned for countless times.. 

[Tiny]

Wherever this discussion leads, the practical part is the important. Start doing things in-game to promote roleplay, let the immature people troll on /p while the purple chats are full of quality roleplay! 

[Kostas]

I have to say that each of your posts hits the point here, and i completly agree with you guys.
I also have to add that i think the reason for so many newly opened groups with actual lack of roleplay skill and experience is that those people mostly get denied from the groups they applied to join. I do think that the recognized and official groups should not be too easy to accept people who could (maybe) ruin their reputation, but they should not be too fast denying those people either. Instead of that, try teaching them. Try showing them how to do better than they did so far. Remember, we don't play against each other here, we all play together.

Their points are valid clearly, though your part isn't fully valid. As fucked up as it may sound, you can't have a guy who joined a week ago, rolling with an official group, that's what new/lower groups are there for. People can join them, learn from them, and hopefully move on one day, either by leaving, or when the group closes(which is pretty common). I started low, most started low. I think that this is the best way to start anyway. You can't expect to be at the top, when you clearly are not experienced, and experience is gainned, not taught.

To the point. Yeye, all of those Lead by Examble posts have been arround for years. And yea, it does make a difference, but it is clearly not enough, if it was enough. This topic would not be arround. You can't solve a problem who has been for years, with the same solution you've been trying for years. Leading by examble is a start. And I am sure most people that want to, already do it, so talking about it here, won't make an actual difference. I do not know what we need, but hell we need something more than that.

[jovanca]

Their points are valid clearly, though your part isn't fully valid. As f**ked up as it may sound, you can't have a guy who joined a week ago, rolling with an official group, that's what new/lower groups are there for. People can join them, learn from them, and hopefully move on one day, either by leaving, or when the group closes(which is pretty common). I started low, most started low. I think that this is the best way to start anyway. You can't expect to be at the top, when you clearly are not experienced, and experience is gainned, not taught.

To the point. Yeye, all of those Lead by Examble posts have been arround for years. And yea, it does make a difference, but it is clearly not enough, if it was enough. This topic would not be arround. You can't solve a problem who has been for years, with the same solution you've been trying for years. Leading by examble is a start. And I am sure most people that want to, already do it, so talking about it here, won't make an actual difference. I do not know what we need, but hell we need something more than that.

Yet the players i see started playing 2 years ago, same time i did or even earlier or later, who rped with official factions, are obviously better at roleplay than some people who didn't have a chance to roll with groups who actually rp, like i did, and like some of my friends who obviously roleplay well did. Ofcourse official groups can take the new players, thats the best way newbies will learn, from the good ones. I'm not saying Gvardia (just an example) should accept members who just started playing 4 days ago, but why not let these follow and learn?

[Kostas]

I'll be frank with you ... some are worth that, stick arround and learn phase, many aren't though. It's just my opinion after all, and I never said that they'd have to stick like that for years... But spend like a month on your own or with another group, before getting close to an official one, if your RP experience is close to 0. This changes if you are comming from any other RP server, where you'd have the knowledge, but would simply have to learn how things work in our server.

[jovanca]

I'll be frank with you ... some are worth that, stick arround and learn phase, many aren't though. It's just my opinion after all, and I never said that they'd have to stick like that for years... But spend like a month on your own or with another group, before getting close to an official one, if your RP experience is close to 0. This changes if you are comming from any other RP server, where you'd have the knowledge, but would simply have to learn how things work in our server.

Well, my first actual RP group experience was Soprano family, back in 2013 when Johan was activly leading it. He let me roll with them, not as an official member tho, and showed me a lot. Later while playing on Argonath i did the same thing, there are some more or less active players who i helped when getting started, a lot, and who knows if they would still be around if i haven't done that. So my point is, recognized and official groups got their stauts for a reason - being good at what they do, so these groups should help the others become better at it as well. If someone appears not to be worth it, you can always get rid of him.

[Gandalf]

So... You can't bribe a person in an RP fashion way? Wasn't there a trial going on? What would prevent the briberies from happening in game, for example?

Yes there was a section on Argonath that made the "lead by example" thing work, you know why? Because we were fewer and the administration team had the time AND THE PATIENCE (focus on that point, yes I'm saying some have no patience or overall intention) to explain things and resolve situations. In a server with 50 players daily? They can't do everything. Rules are necessary to maintain even a light RP. These are not enough. And the lead by example thing in SAMP won't work while there are players that don't give a s**t about the others and if they're having fun or not. gief muni style.

We have ran SA:MP with over 100 players and still have enough time to explain.
The point is that it is not the administration that needs to wipe your ass. If you can not be bothered to help out a new player, they will not learn, or learn bad things from someone who does spend time on them but has different ideas.
If you try to take new players in to your RP and they do not want to understand but rulebreak instead, then it is time to get help from administration. Until then, it is up to the players to introduce new arrivals.

[AlSforza]

That's why I said some, not all. And I know that many players do as you say, myself included (as many can tell you). What I do not understand is insisting on a job done by people when it can be done by one simple rule that doesn't at all affect the server and its idea. Want to keep it "a free space" for everyone to hang out and have fun, fine I'm all for it - I think that we've just been saying that we'd like to preserve the roleplay either than the goofing around affecting others and their time or leasure.

And I'm being respectful, no need for harsh comments.

[Gandalf]

That's why I said some, not all. And I know that many players do as you say, myself included (as many can tell you). What I do not understand is insisting on a job done by people when it can be done by one simple rule that doesn't at all affect the server and its idea. Want to keep it "a free space" for everyone to hang out and have fun, fine I'm all for it - I think that we've just been saying that we'd like to preserve the roleplay either than the goofing around affecting others and their time or leasure.

And I'm being respectful, no need for harsh comments.

Just as I mentioned if you would have cared to read, adding one rule leads to adding another and within short time you have a Bible.
If you find this disrecpectful, grow a pair.

[TonySforza]

If you find this disrecpectful, grow a pair.

And you get some education, it's the second time today you showed a large lack of it.

He's being educated giving his opinion, be a little man and take his opinion wether you accept it or not in an educated way.