What happens when Official Law Enforcement Groups refuse to Roleplay?

[TheGreasyChopper]

 So, what just went on in the past hour or so really made me confused and sad of the current state of things in Argonath's SA:MP server.
 It all began with a group of 5-6 officers and one FBI Agent coming at the Ten Green Bottles, wishing to take Tom_Adams in custody without him being suspected or anything, which lead to a protest.
 AoD and 18th Street organized a Protest at FBI's San Fierro HQ. Everything was Roleplayed, we weren't holding any guns out. (At one point I RPed using AoD's Group Burrito to ram trough the FBI HQ doors, an FBI Agent just started shooting without any warnings or suspecting me). He said the entrance is slidedoors and only unlockable with a keycard. We stayed outside until a second FBI Agent walked out, we used the opportunity to RP storming in.

 And here is where the "fun" begins. We enter the lobby and roleplay barricading the entrance with furniture from the lobby. Then we went toward the closed doors at the FBI HQ, leading to the parts where Tom_Adams was being held inside.

 At that time something just told me a shitstorm is about to happen, so I asked Fuzzy who was one of the online admins to oversee the situation, and make sure no DM happens. He said okay and that was that. We RPed having a shotgun and shooting down the lock of the doors inside the HQ and proceeding to kick it down. Then I asked Fuzzy to open the door for us, as the agents who were on the other side REFUSED to Roleplay and refused to open the door for us. I contacted the two other online admins, but I was left ignored.

 A few minutes passed, we were asking the FBI Agents to just open the doors and continue the RP. This is when Louis_Harrison(Not sure of the correct name) just started tossing smoke grenades at us(Trough the "unbreakable doors" who we took down). We were moved to the briefing room due to the smoke grenades, and RPed trying to take down the second door. Again we were refused to have them opened by admins and FBI members inside.

  While this was happening an FBI agent walked inside the building(Note: We RPed barricading the doors, and asked Fuzzy to make sure noone avoids this RP and storms inside). He came to our room, suspected most of us, tossed a smoke grenade and then ran out. This is when a group of SAPD Officers (And SWAT I believe)  stormed in and just started shooting. I ran to them and said numerous times in /em that the doors were barricaded. Then I just contacted Fuzzy about the situation, to which I was told that "I'm did not wittness this" and told that other admins were observing it.

A few weeks ago when /storm or /breach(not sure which one was added), SAPD officers just PMed admins to unlock properties locked by owners who were inside and suspected. Admin just went there, unlocked it and they continued storming it. Not even once when I was witness to this the officers did /me storms in. or /me breaks down the door. They just went in and started shooting.

Yet when we ROLEPLAYED breaking down the doors and moving at them, admins refused to open them, so did the FBI Agents. They refused to roleplay

Today, when the Angels of Death and 18th Street went inside the FBI HQ, we wished to Roleplay, we weren't even holding out weapons. Shotgun used to shoot down the door was holstered right after the shot. We asked the FBI members to RP along, we also pleaded them not to turn this into a DM fest. But then the SWAT situation happened, they stormed in and started shooting.

After talking with admins, they decided to void the whole situation and skip this RP. So Tom Adams was unsuspected and let out. But on his way out he was suspected again, and we had to contact admins to let him go out peacefully.

My question is, how long will the administration keep on the Law Enforcement group's side? It's all about "suspects not roleplaying" "suspects straight up shooting"...We roleplayed every single action at this protest and we did not even get an apology from the FBI's side for refusing to RP. (Note, only Andrew from the Admin Team was respectful enough to give an apology).

When will Criminal/Civilian groups get a chance to Roleplay and get support from the Admin Team? When will punishments go out to PD/FBI members who refuse to Roleplay?







On a side note, I heard about a rule about Groups not being allowed to RP at PDHQs? Can I have a clear announcement of this? If that's the case, can I please have the SAPD forbidden to RP at the Ten Green Bottles, unless there's a suspect at it?

[Tiny]

It's just funny because the criminal side would be punished for refusing roleplay in this case. There's a stereotype that the law side is more mature and staying within the rules, but things have changed as it seems.

About the gate opening case, we roleplayed shitloads of ways to open it, yet all we got is "/em I'm not opening the gate." by Louis. Tho, Huntsman entered so easily claiming they bombed the door with a C4, even though the main door/gate is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally more powerfull and difficult to break.

Seems like the law side can open the doors with a C4, while we can't, because it's against your profit. All we asked was roleplay, and I agree with Greasy's post with no doubt.

[Louis H]

You can't just walk into an FBI HQ and simply kick down a security door within a matter of two minutes. You shot the door once, yes, but don't you think that is what they are designed for? Bulletproof. They're designed to keep people like yourselves out. You can't just expect to shoot the door and give it a couple of kicks and it'll open.

You went into the second room and again just roleplayed kicking down the door in a minute. It just simply wouldn't happen. It's the main door into a restricted area of our headquarters, do you really think a bunch of bikers could just walk straight through after a few kicks?

[.Diego]

You can't just walk into an FBI HQ and simply kick down a security door within a matter of two minutes. You shot the door once, yes, but don't you think that is what they are designed for? Bulletproof. They're designed to keep people like yourselves out. You can't just expect to shoot the door and give it a couple of kicks and it'll open.

You went into the second room and again just roleplayed kicking down the door in a minute. It just simply wouldn't happen. It's the main door into a restricted area of our headquarters, do you really think a bunch of bikers could just walk straight through after a few kicks?

But you were able to throw smoke through those "unbreakable" doors.

[Brian]

Alright, usually I do not respond on these kind of topics, but here we go.

I contacted the two other online admins, but I was left ignored.

I was never contacted, or ask to oversee anything.

We RPed having a shotgun and shooting down the lock of the doors inside the HQ and proceeding to kick it down.

It is an FBI HQ, not a civil housing, you can't just shoot/kick down one of those doors, not even with 15 men.

We asked the FBI members to RP along, we also pleaded them not to turn this into a DM fest. But then the SWAT situation happened, they stormed in and started shooting.

SWAT has not fired a single bullet at you guys, we were the ones being shot at from inside the room until you and two others came outside. One of my officers then shot as he was confused of the situation, and was then ordered to stop.

After talking with admins, they decided to void the whole situation and skip this RP. So Tom Adams was unsuspected and let out. But on his way out he was suspected again, and we had to contact admins to let him go out peacefully.

I voided the situation with agreement of the two other admins in-game as it was not going anywhere, we came in-side to attempt a role play scene, as the FBI wanted to breach with all of the SAPD before, which I canceled already. Before we could RP anything, we were already being shot at by you guys, and we had not fired a single bullet, we got in to cover, and then you and two others ran out and started saying we were shooting and not role playing.

My question is, how long will the administration keep on the Law Enforcement group's side? It's all about "suspects not role playing" "suspects straight up shooting"...We role played every single action at this protest and we did not even get an apology from the FBI's side for refusing to RP. (Note, only Andrew from the Admin Team was respectful enough to give an apology).

I don't pick sides, the thing is, who, in his wise mind, would breach in to a FBI HQ, a law fanction, with guns, thinking they can free they friend, without expected a return of law enforcement force in a way. I tried to solve this without shooting, SWAT came to protect the units inside, nothing more. We were the oens being shot at and I can promise you, I had not fired a single bullet during that situation, and my SWAT team did not either, my officer did shoot 3 times, as he was confused of what was the situation, and he stopped once I told him to. I can not say for the FBI, as I am not a member of that faction, nor have I seen any of their actions.

When will Criminal/Civilian groups get a chance to Roleplay and get support from the Admin Team? When will punishments go out to PD/FBI members who refuse to Roleplay?

I have never picked sides during my administrative role, when I am blue, I am a cop, when I am red, I am an admin. I don't pick sides, I don't care which side 'wins or loses' as it is a game, I am here to administrate and make sure all parties have fun.

So, a tip from me, next time there is a situation like this, try to ask for administrative supervising from the start of it, that way everything can be worked out better then an admin being called in mid-way, but also remember admins are not always available, role play is an important factor, but they also have to respond on other reports.
Do not get mad when something does not go your way, I used to have the same, it is really annoying and you want to do your best to have fun with your friends and make sure the other party is having fun too, but being mad over it does not work. I had seen some people being quite annoyed, and also showing a negative attitude, but I'd suggest next time, keep it in a CB chat or something, and make sure that one person talks, not all of you, that way communication is better, and things can be solved better.

I am always open to discuss things, so if you have any questions, or want to make a rolepaly with the SAPD, AirDivision, SWAT, ARA, ETC. Feel free to contact me, want admin supervision, same story. But just keep calm in case something goes wrong, we're humans, we make mistakes, and we are not perfect, we all have different ways of acting and we can not make everyone happy.

[Louis H]

But you were able to throw smoke through those "unbreakable" doors.

In fact, I threw them through the office. Not the doors.

[Brian]

It's just funny because the criminal side would be punished for refusing roleplay in this case. There's a stereotype that the law side is more mature and staying within the rules, but things have changed as it seems.

About the gate opening case, we roleplayed shitloads of ways to open it, yet all we got is "/em I'm not opening the gate." by Louis. Tho, Huntsman entered so easily claiming they bombed the door with a C4, even though the main door/gate is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally more powerfull and difficult to break.

Seems like the law side can open the doors with a C4, while we can't, because it's against your profit. All we asked was roleplay, and I agree with Greasy's post with no doubt.

This is one of the reasons I ordered the SAPD to step down from the scene, there was no role play going on, SWAT was not called, no negotiations. Just random breaching, I took some time to get a perimeter set up and make sure we had an armed forces team inside in case the FBI needed protection on heading out of the building, but we did not aim on just shooting, we are also a role playing faction, even though not everyone sees it like that, a lot of people see SWAT just as a 'breach and kill' faction, but yet we do not get a lot of chances to show our role playing skills, as we are being shot at a lot.

[Fuzzy]

but also remember admins are not always available, role play is an important factor, but they also have to respond on other reports.

Which is why I didn't see most of the situation.


Also to add, the way you provoked Louis after the situation had ended was disgraceful. But I did not give any punishments to not further fuel the debate.

[Arslan]

Role play isn't drunk bikers coming to a Federal HQ - probably one of the most secure locations in the country, and kicking the entrance to a restricted section of the HQ down and then PMing agents to open the door because you "RP'd" it.

The public area alone in a Federal HQ has shit load of security and you're trying to breach a restricted section by kicking the door down, pathetic.

[Brian]

Role play isn't drunk bikers coming to a Federal HQ - probably one of the most secure locations in the country, and throwing a C4 or kicking the entrance to a restricted section of the HQ down and then PMing agents to open the door because you "RP'd" it.

The public area alone in a Federal HQ has shit load of security and you're trying to breach a restricted section by kicking the door down, pathetic. Even if you did use C4s wouldn't that blow you up too?

The FBI 'blew up the front door' with C4.

[Huntsman]

SWAT was not called, no negotiations. Just random breaching,

Actually, I did call in SWAT.

Chatlog:

[14:54:02] Police Radio - Huntsman(26): FBI: I need SAPD, maybe SWAT too to SF FBI HQ, over.

Now responding to the topic. You whine about us not roleplaying (which is complete and utter c...) but yet you:
1. Regardless of the fact that I stated that the main lobby slide doors are now operated keycard only due to emergency lockdown, you somehow still got inside the lobby. Thats so very roleplay. Much wow. Such RP.
2. FBI HQ is a national security organisation which has various documents and material inside of national importance, and yet you expect to get inside by simply kicking and shooting a door? I'm kind of sad I even have to explain that it's obvious the FBI doors would be bullet/explosion proof due to the classified material that's inside.
3. Yes, the lobby door was in fact blowable due to the fact it leads just to the lobby. It's the doors that lead to highly restricted area which have security measures.
4. Yes, it really makes much sense for a group of street thugs to storm a national security building and expect to just go inside and free their friend. Really. Wow.

I really respect AoD, or atleast did. You are one of the very very few criminal groups that still roleplay, yet when it comes to the part where one of your members gets arrested, you start ignoring all roleplay logic and storm a government building with an intention of "protest", whether it's LSPD HQ, FBI HQ, or a freaking high security prison. So RP, much WOW. I'm sad this topic was even made.

[Tiny]

The public area alone in a Federal HQ has shit load of security and you're trying to breach a restricted section by kicking the door down, pathetic.

You did exactly the same thing to come and stop us, and I call that hypocricy.

[Louis H]

The FBI 'blew up the front door' with C4.

Yes that was a bit OTT, I personally believe the Agent who did it shouldn't have RPed that. However the main purpose of the argument in-game was about us not opening the door with /usegate.


I would have been more than happy to continue roleplaying the situation. However when the door was shot and kicked, you demanded that I opened it over /em. When I refused, because it realistically wouldn't happen, the situation started to get heated and this is where the majority of the roleplay stopped.

If you were to have used /em correctly, instead of demanding I open it, and have asked me if the door would have opened then I could have responded and told you it wouldn't. You could have then continued with your efforts to open the door. However after me telling you no, you stopped roleplaying.

[Brian]

[14:54:02] Police Radio - Huntsman(26): FBI: I need SAPD, maybe SWAT too to SF FBI HQ, over.

Indeed, you said MAYBE SWAT, that is not a confirmation, no situation report, no further requests, you blew up the front door with a bomb, and then went ahead breaching, that is the moment I told the SAPD to stand back and set a perimeter. SWAT was on scene in their normal police duty clothing and responded accordingly as you decided to breach in to the HQ with a number of about 15 criminals, you are saying that they are not role playing properly with kicking down the door, yet you do almost exactly the same as what they did.

Everyones just pointing fingers at each other but I have seen no one look at their own role play today. I suggest some people to do that first.

[Kostas]

I will point out a simple thing ... Who decided which door is explosion proof, and which isn't? Who decided that those doors are bulletproof, and which aren't? Who decided which barricade you can go through, and which you can't go through. I'll be simple, fuck the shots and the kicks, how much power do 15 people have? At Tae Kwon Do fights with electronic support, a kick needs to be worth atleast three/two(not sure) times the weight of the athlete to be counted as a point, meaning that each one can easily make the force of atleast 200 kilos, by pushing.
Long story short, the FBI HQ is not a bank vault, we can go through a door, simply because of the physics. Bullet proof, I accept that, yet again 15 people can go through a bulletproof door.
To the point, do you deny that the fact that, that door was abled to hold us all back is forcing RP? As it gives no space for us to RP around it?