I need help regarding some rules. (I can't understand them - Criminals/Cops)

[RafaDK]

Good evening,

So today, while I was playing in the server, Cofiliano told me something about a new rule for criminals, apparently not only when a criminal dies he has to leave the scene/RP but now as well, whenever he loses suspection he has to leave; else he will face consequences that will be subject of evaluation by the current online server staff.

So, back in the past we dealt with the fact that police had an advantage over criminal groups simply because they could return as they please upon facing death in the same exact Roleplay scenario. Everyone used to discuss that until it became factual that it would be an allowed rule and it would stay. Alright, people accepted it and move on.

Now, I got to hear that from Cofiliano, and by the admins themselves that we upon losing suspect stats we have to leave the scene.
So, lets say that within a pursuit where we are in a drive-by situation, we get a gap from the cops and someone with a shorter time of /rhl loses the status of the so called wanted, script-wise; despite the fact that person shoot countless times against the police and has been mostly seen by them as well, therefore easily recognizable. But as soon as the script makes them a citizen, everything gets dropped.
Something that admins confirmed to be true and not leaving the scene will get him into facing consequences. So those are two disadvantages for criminal groups.

I know SAPD has been an official group fully supported by Argonath.
But in the middle of RS4, we were introduced with the official status for criminal groups as well, achieved primarily by Corleone/Stracci/Ancelotti/Gvardia/Diablos.
And with the release of RS5 we were introduced as well with supportive scripts for the official criminal groups.
So both sides are now supported by the server, so the question remains, why not have equality between both factions? I'm not asking for criminals to return after dead or cops to stop doing it, no. But this new rule implying that a suspect who just evaded the wanted level cannot proceed to aid his fellow family/gang members is a poposterous outrage regarding equality.

But coming back to the primary point that got me to open the thread,
A suspect dies - Leaves the RP, he died;
A suspect loses his suspection - Leaves the RP, is considered as a dead person, even if he is sitting in the same vehicle as his members.

So, why is FBI above these rules and being supported? - Basically, today, Pedro Gvardia after dying was still taken into custody by the FBI members.
So why doesn't the same rules, us criminals are obligated to follow to not face harsh consequences don't apply to the FBI members?
Why are criminals obligated to RP something with the FBI when they ask for cooperation, but in the other hand they can just refuse to Roleplay with criminals whenever facing such situations?

Those are some of the questions I'd gladly like to see answered, as you all know I've been away for a long period of time, and I'm still trying to catch up with all these new rules.

[Gnb_22]

Can someone clarify this rule, cause I'm pretty sure others are uncertain of it as well.

[Gandalf]

There is no equality because we are nt playing Cops and Robbers.
This is a roleplay server, which means that in principle we follow the principle of an action movie where the 'good guys' win.

While we are not 'real life' we do expect our players to follow a more or less realistic line of thought in roleplay.
That means that criminal families should do whatever possible to stay away from trouble with the cops, and not allow themselves to get caught out because one member makes a mistake.
Similar the function of escape was created on request of the player who did not want to fight until death at all times. This means that when a player escapes, the idea of them being allowed to be involved again in the shootout is not logical. Someone who escapes is no longer on the run and has the obligation to leave those still in the roleplay. Though exception can be made if they are in the middle of nowhere, it is allowed to drive them to a nearby vehicle.
If players prefer to continue until death we might as well remove the escape from the scripts. After all fight or give up are in that case the only used options, and it would make the script a lot lighter and easier for the scripters.]]

Just to add a warning for the 'other side' that may be lost. Cops should not suspect someone just because they are with or near a suspected criminal. They have no way of knowing if this person is involved unless they shoot ot threaten the lives of the cops.

[Louis H]

In regards to the scene you are talking about involving FBI, clearly whatever you have been told is incorrect. Yourself nor Cofilliano were on scene, therefore unaware of why we were taking Pedro Gvardia into custody. Assumptions were made causing more confusion.

Here is what actually happened:

The FBI had a warrant on Pedro. We went to execute it, Pedro was suspected for being in FBI custody but then told us he had to leave and left the server. He told us we can continue when he comes back. Pedro may have just died prior to us coming to execute the warrant, but that is completely irrelevant because him dying was not part of the roleplay scene we had a warrant for.

When Pedro came back, he still had his suspection from earlier when he had to go, so he eventually escaped because we weren't there to continue the warrant execution. When we were able to continue, we did so.

Pedro's death prior to FBI executing a warrant was completely irrelevant to this roleplay situation that you are referring to. I hope I have cleared that up.


However, I am not fully aware of the outcome of Pedro's interrogation because I wasn't there.

[Pedro.]

So, why is FBI above these rules and being supported? - Basically, today, Pedro Gvardia after dying was still taken into custody by the FBI members.
So why doesn't the same rules, us criminals are obligated to follow to not face harsh consequences don't apply to the FBI members?
Why are criminals obligated to RP something with the FBI when they ask for cooperation, but in the other hand they can just refuse to Roleplay with criminals whenever facing such situations?

The funniest thing about this was that the officer from FBI and also a member of the staff team (moderator) which was very unpolite even calling me and cofiliano "ignorants and irrelevants" made me spend my time in such bullshit and 10 mins after I get in FBI's HQ he realizes that the incident had everything to do with my death. Please 

[Huntsman]

I personaly, and, I believe, majority of cops would be in favor of being able to resuspect people who continue to aid after escape, rather than having them admin punished. The new script has so many flaws. It should just be as simple as that: if the aider does not leave the vehicle immediatly upon evading, he is a subject for re-suspection. Both sides profit.

[RafaDK]

There is no equality because we are nt playing Cops and Robbers.
This is a roleplay server, which means that in principle we follow the principle of an action movie where the 'good guys' win.

While we are not 'real life' we do expect our players to follow a more or less realistic line of thought in roleplay.
That means that criminal families should do whatever possible to stay away from trouble with the cops, and not allow themselves to get caught out because one member makes a mistake.
Similar the function of escape was created on request of the player who did not want to fight until death at all times. This means that when a player escapes, the idea of them being allowed to be involved again in the shootout is not logical. Someone who escapes is no longer on the run and has the obligation to leave those still in the roleplay. Though exception can be made if they are in the middle of nowhere, it is allowed to drive them to a nearby vehicle.
If players prefer to continue until death we might as well remove the escape from the scripts. After all fight or give up are in that case the only used options, and it would make the script a lot lighter and easier for the scripters.]]

Just to add a warning for the 'other side' that may be lost. Cops should not suspect someone just because they are with or near a suspected criminal. They have no way of knowing if this person is involved unless they shoot ot threaten the lives of the cops.

But then again, directed at your first sentence, how is this going to make everyone have their happy and fun times, when you, the owner, are clearly saying that cops are supposed to win everytime? - And how is Roleplay anything related with 'following the principle where 'good guys' always win'? I'm sure Roleplay is something where you take actions that would be otherwise found IRL. Where you find a line based IRL, not a film. You don't find the good guys always winning throughout history, now do you? There isbalance between good and evil. For more scary that may sound, 'where's light, there's also darkness'.

And regarding the comment about the suspect, if you follow a line of realism, no member of a criminal group would leave anyone behind in a shootout, Mafias/Gangs have a code.
And what you're saying is, using Corleone as an example, they're having a shootout where the higher hierarchy members are involved, you expect them to leave the scene upon losing suspection and ignore the fact that their leaders are in danger because a script says so?
Even in a pursuit, that course of action would not happen in a movie where good guys are supposed to win. There would be no way where someone would go 'Well, they saw my face, and I shoot them, but something tells me I'm no longer wanted for some reason, so I'll just walk away and they will ignore me, else god may ban me'.

Gandalf, man, you know better. And know what I mean, you know me for years, I do have a point. I'm not asking for you to remove the suspect system entirely, leave it, it's fine. Just work around this rule, it makes no sense...

[Louis H]

The funniest thing about this was that the officer from FBI and also a member of the staff team (moderator) which was very unpolite even calling me and cofiliano "ignorants and irrelevants" made me spend my time in such bullshit and 10 mins after I get in FBI's HQ he realizes that the incident had everything to do with my death. Please 

Please don't twist my words around. I said Cofilliano was ignorant, ignorant in regards to that particular situation because he wasn't present.

[Kaze]

I just got PM'd to leave the vehicle once I lost suspection however the other guy in the vehicle had 6 seconds left. Just putting this here..

[RafaDK]

Please don't twist my words around. I said Cofilliano was ignorant, ignorant in regards to that particular situation because he wasn't present.

And therefore I could call you ignorant for not knowing the server rules? Apparently upon losing suspection the person is RP dead.
Too bad he had to eat, you can't force him to Re-Roleplay something and he doesn't have the obligation to do so.

The funniest thing about this was that the officer from FBI and also a member of the staff team (moderator) which was very unpolite even calling me and cofiliano "ignorants and irrelevants" made me spend my time in such bullshit and 10 mins after I get in FBI's HQ he realizes that the incident had everything to do with my death. Please 

And that, BeDifrent aka Pedro Gvardia. Apparently even you acknowledged that his death was related with the incident. So are you blatantly lying to our faces in this thread?

[Huntsman]

Guys, treat other how you want to be treated. And by my recent encounter, all these complaints could not be more invalid.

[Louis H]

And therefore I could call you ignorant for not knowing the server rules? Apparently upon losing suspection the person is RP dead.
Too bad he had to eat, you can't force him to Re-Roleplay something and he doesn't have the obligation to do so.

Pedro's suspection wasn't for any particular crime. It was just because he was in FBI custody.

Pedro also agreed prior to quitting the server that the roleplay will be continued when he gets back.

[Brian]

But then again, directed at your first sentence, how is this going to make everyone have their happy and fun times, when you, the owner, are clearly saying that cops are supposed to win everytime? - And how is Roleplay anything related with 'following the principle where 'good guys' always win'? I'm sure Roleplay is something where you take actions that would be otherwise found IRL. Where you find a line based IRL, not a film. You don't find the good guys always winning throughout history, now do you? There isbalance between good and evil. For more scary that may sound, 'where's light, there's also darkness'.

Because criminals do not always have to shoot and be suspected. Try other ways of role play. When I was a criminal (and I was for quite a while). I roleplayed with my family, with other families, yes we had guns, yes we made threats. But shootouts? About 1/10 role plays. Now adays I notice that 9/10 roleplays ends with guns blazing.

Yesterday, cops were minding their own business when a call came up of huge gang activity, we organised teams and made sure that everyone would be checked coming in and out of San Fierro. We did not want to 'engage' in the situation that the crime families were having, yet we wanted to use the opportunity to start a roleplay for ourselves. Yet moans came up because we were in 'their' city. It seems that the criminals do not want to be disturbed during their 'roleplay' which is expanded all over the map. But that's the past and this is the future.

What I like to see, is more 'cooperation' in roleplay between criminal families, and criminal - police. Not everything has to be handled with guns or arrestations. Make sure you show what you like to happen in the situation, PM the cops and inform them how you would like the roleplay to go, which kind of direction, a roleplay can be full of suprises but if you let one handle it, the other may not like it. And vise-versa.

I hope this is useful for some, any questions, roleplay questions, or organisations may be asked, I am open for a lot of different ideas, questions or concerns so don't hesitate to ask

[.Diego]

I got suspected for being stand still on a car and even on foot near a criminal without brandishing any guns and was even shot down using m4's without resisting arrest. Good job FBI

[Leon.]

what if I pick up a suspected friend (say he killed cop 15 min rhl) with no car and get suspected for aiding, then manage to escape with the other dude still suspected with me. do I give him the car and just go about my day? is picking him up allowed in the first place or should I leave him stranded and helpless?


regarding this whole FBI thing, I'd expect it to be null and void if Pedro does not wish to roleplay with them considering the no force roleplay rule - which I would not blame him if he didn't want to, considering FBI's aggressive attitude towards roleplay these days and tendency for extremely long-winded roleplay...