[Cannabis] Questions about ilegal farming.

[Link9rly]

Recently there were multiple seizures including myself, Rusty, [WS]Reece, John Collin, Dina (and a few others) in which nobody died, so quit with the generalisations bud.

Also, very recently, we killed three waves of three officers including FBI. One of those that returned took a picture and then logged out afterwards. If this is valid roleplay, it's completely retarded. Prove me wrong. Returning after death is one of the few cancers on the server still holding us back in the CnR-centric RS4-era.  Give me a good argument as to how it isn't a detriment to roleplay.

Addendum: Returning to roleplay is obviously fucking CnR-centric and I'm not sure how people are so thick to not see this. The only thing on this server is that once criminals lose, they're out for good in that roleplay scenario.

[Julio.]

In regards to the picture taking, I would suggest you take a look on the ARPD forums, there was a statement regarding going on duty and what is classed as standard equipment.

The gist of it is: Every office carries a camera that is considered to be automatically recording from the moment they put on the uniform. This implies the pictures are continuously being taken. Likely the individual forgot to take a screenshot, so returning afterwards to snap the picture was not a breach of RP, but amending an out of character mistake.

[Link9rly]

In regards to the picture taking, I would suggest you take a look on the ARPD forums, there was a statement regarding going on duty and what is classed as standard equipment.

The gist of it is: Every office carries a camera that is considered to be automatically recording from the moment they put on the uniform. This implies the pictures are continuously being taken. Likely the individual forgot to take a screenshot, so returning afterwards to snap the picture was not a breach of RP, but amending an out of character mistake.

You're ignoring what I said.

Give me a good argument as to how it isn't a detriment to roleplay.

"It" referring to returning after death as a police officer.

[TonySforza]

If every officer is recording in real time through a camera then I advise using an actual recording software like Shadow Play or Fraps to back it up, returning afterwards with an ig camera is open for abuse, nobody guarantees that the guy returning won't use the information he's gathering just by being there afterwards under the guise of "rectifying an out of character issue".

"Yo guys I'm going back just to take pictures because I forgot to do it before, while I'm there I will also give you ooc information of how many of them are left, what weapons they have, what vehicles they have and what they're doing next".

Either things are done properly when they're supposed to, or you don't rectify them and instead RP that your camera got destroyed or wasn't recording at the time.

Returning after death is just an unfair advantage that people want just because it's that... an advantage, you don't care about other player's fun, you only care about deleting the names from the MDC regardless of it being fair, unfair, fun or not, you're in a community, balance of fun with fairness is what matters, not one side's personal interests.

Edit: Quoting an old friend of mine "Nobody beats my PD".

[Julio.]

You're ignoring what I said.

"It" referring to returning after death as a police officer.

I don't know why that's the case, or who made the decision. But that's the way it is, and that's the way it's always been.

But by the same argument, and being "strict RP", I would argue that if you die, you should lose everything, including getting a forced new identity ingame, no house, no money, no drugs, no phone. And that isn't a cops vs criminals discussion. Same would apply to both.

In fact, the ingame scripts currently support the face that if you die, you can spawn at the nearest hospital, which implies you aren't actually dead, but you were injured and went to hospital. In fact, assuming this is the case, you should NEVER be unsuspected, NEVER be able to escape as this is not RP. Full RP would mean once you've committed a crime, it's on your record for life. Even after your health goes to 0 and you go back to hospital, as you're not dead, you shouldn't even lose your suspected status.

If every officer is recording in real time through a camera then I advise using an actual recording software like Shadow Play or Fraps to back it up, returning afterwards with an ig camera is open for abuse, nobody guarantees that the guy returning won't use the information he's gathering just by being there afterwards under the guise of "rectifying an out of character issue".

I fully agree with you, I really do. The main problem being at this point is that this would restrict people from playing the game if they had a lower spec computer with low amounts of disk space. Though if there was a program that took a screenshot every 5 seconds or so automatically I would probably endorse using that as well.

[TonySforza]

Pressing F8 once in a while doesn't hurt either, I mentioned Shadow Play more as a convenience because it records the past 20 minutes of gameplay in one push of a button.

[Link9rly]

I don't know why that's the case, or who made the decision. But that's the way it is, and that's the way it's always been.

Oh, so you don't have a valid argument. Gotcha. Just because things used to be shit doesn't mean they have to be like that nowadays. RP being enforced happened very recently and it's just a taste of what's possibly to come.

But by the same argument, and being "strict RP", I would argue that if you die, you should lose everything, including getting a forced new identity ingame, no house, no money, no drugs, no phone. And that isn't a cops vs criminals discussion. Same would apply to both.

Nobody's asking to be a strict RP server. It's just setting everyone on the same level in terms of roleplay power. Nobody's asking for strict RP. We're asking for better RP instead of a TDM dogshit that happens most of the time. CK would be a f**cking awful idea on this server as it's never going to be a strict RP server. I'm glad it isn't. It's better than going to LS:RP and having to discuss with the pathetic administration about how greed is a reason to rob a bank.

In fact, the ingame scripts currently support the face that if you die, you can spawn at the nearest hospital which implies you aren't actually dead, but you were injured and went to hospital.

It kills your association with the roleplay as you aren't a part of it anymore. Everybody agrees with this and doesn't have a problem with it.

In fact, assuming this is the case, you should NEVER be unsuspected, NEVER be able to escape as this is not RP. Full RP would mean once you've committed a crime, it's on your record for life. Even after your health goes to 0 and you go back to hospital, as you're not dead, you shouldn't even lose your suspected status.

I agree with this until the last part. That's too extreme and makes no sense. However, to add to this idea, people shouldn't get magically suspected when they kill somebody in the middle of nowhere. It makes no sense to drag somebody to a secluded place just to get suspected automatically.

[Stivi]

If cops always carry a camera that stays on the whole time, why aren't some being fired for not doing their job properly?

I've said this before and no one answered properly:

Back in RS4 cops could return after death because the moment they died they had to re-/duty. And when you typed the /duty command you got a new badge. Fine, I guess that can make sense. In RS5 you only have to type /rearm twice, and let's not forget the spawn at Job location. Cops die, spawn at the PD station and re-arm.

If we can't add a "no returning after death rule" - then make it available in weed fields only. If a criminal killed you trying to protect his illegal activity ( growing/harvesting weed) than you're no longer allowed to ENGAGE ( including staying near the map so he doesn't escape ) that criminal. If he moves out of the field then you can go after him.

[Julio.]

Oh, so you don't have a valid argument. Gotcha. Just because things used to be shit doesn't mean they have to be like that nowadays. RP being enforced happened very recently and it's just a taste of what's possibly to come.
Nobody's asking to be a strict RP server. It's just setting everyone on the same level in terms of roleplay power. Nobody's asking for strict RP. We're asking for better RP instead of a TDM dogshit that happens most of the time. CK would be a f**cking awful idea on this server as it's never going to be a strict RP server. I'm glad it isn't. It's better than going to LS:RP and having to discuss with the pathetic administration about how greed is a reason to rob a bank.


It kills your association with the roleplay as you aren't a part of it anymore. Everybody agrees with this and doesn't have a problem with it.
I agree with this until the last part. That's too extreme and makes no sense. However, to add to this idea, people shouldn't get magically suspected when they kill somebody in the middle of nowhere. It makes no sense to drag somebody to a secluded place just to get suspected automatically.

I don't disagree with you. Especially on the point of automatically being suspected for murder, but that's just another item to add to my list that proves we aren't a srsbsns RP server.

On the point of returning , I would certainly not be opposed to limiting at least certain positions to not being able to return after death, for example, FBI staff, SWAT, Command Staff etc.

Stivi, the issue there is that there's no way to prove quickly whether a person did /rearm or duty. Though what I could add to this is that SAPD Officers+ DO get a badge number, and ARPD Officers do not, so whether returning after death could be a limitation on SAPD staff, but not ARPD, as SAPD staff have made a positive acknowledgement that they want to do true "Cop RP"

[Fuzzy]

If cops always carry a camera that stays on the whole time, why aren't some being fired for not doing their job properly?

It's funny how some things only apply when they are of benefit

[Link9rly]

I don't disagree with you. Especially on the point of automatically being suspected for murder, but that's just another item to add to my list that proves we aren't a srsbsns RP server.

On the point of returning , I would certainly not be opposed to limiting at least certain positions to not being able to return after death, for example, FBI staff, SWAT, Command Staff etc.

It's not about serious or light roleplay, man. I don't get why it's hard to get.

It's not roleplay to be immortal. That's CnR.

That's holding us back to the previous freeroaming/CnR bullshit we had during previous script versions eras.

[TonySforza]

People need to realize that RP isn't digital where only 0 and 1 exists, it's analogue where there's more options in the middle, getting tired of people saying that this isn't a srs bsns RP server when these changes don't automatically turn it into that, there's things in between Freeroam and Strict RP you know guys? The requested changes make sense as a balance between fun and fairness for both sides aswell as being "more" RP oriented.

[Julio.]

It's not about serious or light roleplay, man. I don't get why it's hard to get. It's not roleplay to be immortal. That's CnR. That's holding us back to the previous freeroaming/CnR bullshit we had during previous script versions eras.

People need to realize that RP isn't digital where only 0 and 1 exists, it's analogue where there's more options in the middle, getting tired of people saying that this isn't a srs bsns RP server when these changes don't automatically turn it into that, there's things in between Freeroam and Strict RP you know guys? The requested changes make sense as a balance between fun and fairness for both sides aswell as being "more" RP oriented.

I guess this answer applies to both your quotes:

1. Indeed, it would be nice to see more fairness, I do agree, cops have the advantage, the advantages you guys *potentially* could have is numbers, but the returning after death (immortality) cops have at the moment negates that.
2. But who decides what the correct balance is in fairness and also the balance between RP and Freeroam? The community? We're talking about a community in which the majority have "picked a side" and will therefore only see their own point of view.
3. We can't say "We're an RP server, the old days of Argonath are gone" in one breath, and in another say we "There are more options in the middle", that's too vague. Indeed, Argonath has taken steps towards more serious RP than in previous years, but even IC/OOC isn't strictly supported, it's optional.

I'm not trying to be a dick about this, again, I agree with bits, but it's a totally split opinion. But the SAPD are:

1. Not meant to "chase suspect blips", ie, if there's a suspect in SF for "evading traffic stop", guys in LS aren't meant to run across half the map to deal with it.
2. Not meant to pull someone over and assume they're creating meth just because they're in a Journey (okay they often intend to as there's no other real benefit to that vehicle, but we can't assume that)

There's a few other things that if you look at the public section of the ARPD forums SA:MP section that SAPD Officers are not meant to be doing.

If cops always carry a camera that stays on the whole time, why aren't some being fired for not doing their job properly?

Because an officer would not voluntarily submit footage that would incriminate them? ... Take screenshots yourself (or use ShadowPlay, FRAPS as handily suggested before), and submit a court case to try and obtain the "footage" from the SAPD camera, then use your screenshots as if it were footage from the scene. Alternatively, use your own camera.

[Everett]

I really dislike those jihad kamikaze robocops that will never leave even if they're 5vs1, they want to be shot to make your RHL longer and make you loose notoriety.

No downside to death as a police officer, so you just throw yourself at the suspects even if you know you'll die, you do it hoping you can get someone low, or pop tires on one of their vehicles. Because death for slowing the suspects down is a good trade.

[Julio.]

No downside to death as a police officer, so you just throw yourself at the suspects even if you know you'll die, you do it hoping you can get someone low, or pop tires on one of their vehicles. Because death for slowing the suspects down is a good trade.

Instant demotion?   

A script not allowing to go back on duty for 10-15 minutes or so after death would probably be an answer to many of these points, or indeed a prevention on doing /rearm until 10 minutes have passed so if somebody does return within 15 minutes, they have to pay for their own weaponry.