Criminals: stop and think about this

[Julio.]

/area is too vague to be useful, we only see "Los Santos", "Red County" etc... no exacts. But that's beside the point of this topic.

I'd say quite happily that most people here have got the capacity for some decent level of RP. The thing is, people have to expect bad RP from both sides so don't go into a situation expecting it. For example, Leonardo in the FBI has been doing some fantastic roleplay work in an investigation with a couple of SAPD recruits. So even two of they key groups that people have said can't roleplay, immediately I can debunk that myth as false. I know for sure criminals roleplay, take our friends over at Grove Street as an absolute prime example, we regularly get situations over there, with fairly few actual shootouts occuring.

Both "sides" provoke one another, but as mentioned in another thread, if both parties can come out of the roleplay feeling good about it, without the impression one always "wins", then we're getting somewhere. The ultimate punishment for suspected people shouldn't always be jail, and a police officer going to a suspect shouldn't always be a suspect. We need both sides to make it so though, so stick your necks out guys and let's see a little more roleplay, and a little less moaning about it on the forums! 

[Huntsman]

I see several possible solutions for the issue discussed here. Since some people seem to be very fond of abusing the piece of crappy text called "Argonath Vision" to decide to suddenly switch character so no crime can be linked to them after the fact, perhaps it's time we introduce stricter rules on things such as death? A character kill thing? We're already heading to heavy roleplay direction anyways. The thing is that if a player would suddenly choose to die to have his FBI or court case dropped and roleplay a character death, he'd also have to change name, leave the group and never make any interaction with it again. In other words - he'd have to roleplay and entirely new person. He'd also have to agree to have his assets removed since, you know.. His character is gone. That way people would think twice before roleplaying at others expense, yet stripping off the other party of roleplay to avoid having to pay consequences for their actions.. Now what happens is that they find out they're being traced (which is too easy since most people know who the FBI members are and they can see the blip miles away), they intentionally get involved into a roleplay where they die with the FBI present, and that way abuse the system.

[Stivi]

I see several possible solutions for the issue discussed here. Since some people seem to be very fond of abusing the piece of crappy text called "Argonath Vision" to decide to suddenly switch character so no crime can be linked to them after the fact, perhaps it's time we introduce stricter rules on things such as death? A character kill thing? We're already heading to heavy roleplay direction anyways.

Stopped reading right there. Guess why?

I RP with two characters, one is a certified lawyer and one is part of the Gvardia Syndicate. How do you suggest I do something like this? I've never had to use the Argonath Vision for such things. I didn't even read that shit, tl;dr.

Also, I've taken a completely different skin, a different vehicle while being a suspect and iKhm tried to arrest me, yet I explained I wasn't the guy he was looking for ( dots were white at that time I think ) and he simply moved on. It really depends on who you're trying to RP with and how much effort they put into it. I know for a fact FBI wouldn't do this. And CK has always been a thing, have you seen 58th Conecta? It just needs to be agreed by both parties.

[Huntsman]

Stopped reading right there. Guess why?

I RP with two characters, one is a certified lawyer and one is part of the Gvardia Syndicate. How do you suggest I do something like this? I've never had to use the Argonath Vision for such things. I didn't even read that shit, tl;dr.

Also, I've taken a completely different skin, a different vehicle while being a suspect and iKhm tried to arrest me, yet I explained I wasn't the guy he was looking for ( dots were white at that time I think ) and he simply moved on. It really depends on who you're trying to RP with and how much effort they put into it. I know for a fact FBI wouldn't do this. And CK has always been a thing, have you seen 58th Conecta? It just needs to be agreed by both parties.

Then I guess along with the CK rules Argonath would need to bring support for multiple characters at once that can be linked to one account?

[Sweeper]

We're already heading to heavy roleplay direction anyways.

Not even close.

[Fuzzy]

Not even close.

Couldn't be more right. RP can be as "heavy" as you want to make it yourself, but Argonath will never be a heavy roleplay server as you call it. Just won't happen.

[Ben.]

In agreement with Stivi, here. Sorry Max. It's too easy to move things out of context, such as with "crim returned as different character".

I'd like to be able to roleplay different characters, because I enjoy that. That's not unique to me, a lot of us do it.
If a character of mine came under the investigation of the FBI, I would roll with it.
...
I'd roll with it because it's fun. But if I'm RPing a different character at a particular point, I won't just stop mid-RP. This shouldn't even be an issue, because the FBI would need to confirm my identity before they did anything. I identify myself as whoever I choose to be. Of course I'll kick off an RP with the FBI at some point, but that will be mutually agreed via PM or /em, not forced down my throat.
Similarly, I wouldn't force any particular RP on another person. I would, however, expect some kind of RP from whoever they were playing.

Following so far? Excellent.

Now as for criminals coming back "as a different character" into what is blatantly the same violent situation, that's entirely different. That's a server rule saying they can't return after death, created to discourage DM fests in the server.


The problem is, the whole point is about having some fun, and making sure the person you RP with has some fun too. I understand some people abuse the privileges we have over heavy-RP servers, but by introducing additional rules such as enforcing a character change on death, we lose some of the choices we currently get to make.

In this respect, people say the Argonath Vision is flawed. Yes, it is flawed, but only because we as individuals sometimes get greedy and forget about other people. Focus on everyone in an RP, not just yourself, and you'll soon start seeing the benefits.

[Gnb_22]

Just to clear the air on what actually happened in the situation Teddy refered to me. Technically I didnt abuse the system to my conveniece its just that FBI decided to try a cheapshot into getting me into trouble so I decided to be a dick to them. I went to there HQ as a Mexican Mechanic trying to RP with them asking if they needed someone to service their vehicles, they invited me into their garage and then totally ignored the RP and randomly pulled out guns on me saying they have a warrent for my Arrest. How on God's green earth do they know its Grandpa Corleone without using the Name Tag above my head, So I just continued my RP as a Mexican Mechanic Searching for work. Its funny tho, The reason the topic is prolly posted is cause of people Moaning.

[TonySforza]

Last time I RPed with the FBI I enjoyed it for weeks up to the point where I got sued with the demands of removing all my money and all my properties (aka account reset lel), luckily Shaun was the judge at the time and he was sensitive enough to completely ignore that stupid court case.
Maybe people remember that and are affraid of something similar? No one wants to be fucked in the ass raw.

[Ramo_Hawk]

For example, Grandpa just the other day abused the system intentionally by saying it was a different character. So many of you also intentionally die just to avoid any follow up.

Just saying, I've actually heard about this story and it's just bollocks. If he is roleplaying a different character with a scripted job and entire new skin, you MUST respect it and go along with it and wait for him to get back to his actual character. Not everyone has two over-powered characters like yourself so we try to get by with what we have. He wasn't abusing the system in any way because there is absolutely no rule that disallows players to have different characters.

You cannot bad girl about a lack of roleplay when you contribute to the problem by actively seeking ways to discourage roleplay. I am not sure yet how to rephrase the rules to avoid abuse since some of you shits are obviously abusing them... but don't worry I will find a way and put a stop to it.

This needs to be said for both sides because for the last 8 years I've spent on this community I've experienced every side and almost every possible this community allows. It depends on the players involved in the roleplay, some are capable of having a normal-heavy roleplay and some are just shitbags who consider themselves as god damn gods due to their power within a group. Having power within a group is fine, acting like a tough mf is also fine, but acting like you own everyone and the roleplay must go as how you please, is just nonsense and bullshit.

I have to disagree with some things said above. Criminals label cops as dmers, cops do same for criminals. There is a group of people within law enforcing groups that i always enjoy roleplaying with. That includes most of swat and several individuals within sapd. Yet same way there is a group of criminals that i know will always roleplay and be realistic. People are prejudice and assume the worst as soon as they are being approach. This applies to both sides.

Lets be honest here it goes both ways. There are law enforcement individuals who are fabulous role players who we criminals enjoy RPing with but there are those who can't handle a loss in RP so they do everything in thier power to win. SAPD on a whole actually role plays and you see it, I mean there are a few instances here and there where a few individuals screw up from time to time but that doesn't reflect on the whole group.

[.Matthew.]

Hey, next time you decide to report a Law Enforcement officer, he can just say "Oh that was my other character that's corrupt, now I'm on my second one.". Good luck proving who it was and trying to get him punished, especially if he roleplays removing nametag from his uniform, puts a mask on and doesn't use a name anywhere during the situation. But then again, none of you ever bother reporting anybody merely because you consider every Law Enforcement agency and its members incompetent, stupid and useless. Simply because we're not here to serve you (the criminals) and do as you please, we are immediately considered enemies. And then when time and chance comes, something that involves those Law Enforcement agencies, people shit at its members and say how they're abused all the time and nothing is done about it. Perhaps if some of you leaders of them "we been here forever" mafias shit ego out of your ass and become a proper leader of your group, role model for your members and quit the toxic attitude towards Law Enforcement agencies, we may have a better environment to play with without starting to grow grey hair at age of 30. The only reason it happens and specifically in Argonath is because the server is basically a TDM, criminals vs cops. The middle class is so small and stretched that it's not even noticeable. I know only a handful of people who are neither cops nor criminals. And then the mainstream Argonath groups, specifically their leaders, that think they own this community, think the server depends on them, use "we been here forever" to promote their groups, and be proud, create an unplayable environment for others in other groups, specifically Law Enforcement, just because their ego doesn't allow them to lose a situation, end up in jail, in court or end in any similar situation. That's the damn issue. And I'll tell you why it's unplayable for us in Law Enforcement, we have books of regulations, rules and things to watch while we play, in FBI, record every second of gameplay, worry that you do proper roleplay to enable the recording devices, worry that you mention certain things to avoid making 5 hours of work invalid because someone jumps off a cliff, do CSI roleplay when possible to build a case based upon it, spend hours writing up cases and uploading all the evidence, hours questioning victims, witnesses and all just to serve justice to few guilty individuals, who don't need any roleplay skill at all to do /me wears a mask, can jump off a cliff at any moment and set all your hours of work invalid, shoot at you and force you to kill them to as well set all your hours of work invalid, abuse the rules as this topic is here for to avoid any consequences for your actions in court, and by all means possible be a complete dick to us and make our job harder by continuously moaning about whatever we do, we can literally be parked at HQ and people will shit at us for not doing anything. It does fucking piss you off after tolerating it for months and having to face it daily, and I know some of you will come and say shit like "it's your job", well it's not my job to deal with bunch of egoistic individuals and deal with their daily dose of provocations just to do what I want to do. It's not my job to deal with those individuals that try all ways possible avoid any sort of interaction, try all ways to bend the rules, find ways by them and cheat however they know to avoid us. And if we by some chance and a bit of luck get our hands onto them, get more moans thrown at our face for doing our job successfully at the end. That's what's the major issue is, constant verbal assault against us doing this job and impossibility to satisfy merely because our tasks differ. And people take it so personal, instead of playing it as a game, they turn every issue so personal and keep on dragging it along with themselves, bringing it up months after it happened and compare past and future generations based on outdated issues and events that have no relevance to how the situation is today. If you could for a second just appreciate our choice and will to do these jobs, all the things we have to keep in mind while doing it, all the roleplay and paperwork we have to do while all you bunch have to do is one line of /me to neglect our work completely, that'd be great.

[Sweeper]

Ahxjxjd

Hey, no one forces you to be a cop.

Use some structure next time. This is annoying.

[.Matthew.]

I know some of you will come and say shit like "it's your job", well it's not my job to deal with bunch of egoistic individuals and deal with their daily dose of provocations just to do what I want to do. It's not my job to deal with those individuals that try all ways possible avoid any sort of interaction, try all ways to bend the rules, find ways by them and cheat however they know to avoid us. And if we by some chance and a bit of luck get our hands onto them, get more moans thrown at our face for doing our job successfully at the end.

Should read next time before posting something that's already mentioned in original post.

[Mikal]

Maybe people remember that and are affraid of something similar? No one wants to be fucked in the ass raw.

Have to agree there, the thought of being sued out of everything by law enforcement just because of your RP character is a bit daunting, not that I have much to lose...

You have to be careful with all the ass cameras, micro-cameras, button cameras, invisible cameras, google glass cameras, general glasses cameras, fucking cameras fucking everywhere these days! If only people would remember that GTA SA is based in the 1980's, a time when computers were still big ugly grey blocks and your average television took 2 people to lift...

[.Matthew.]

All the things you listed are neglected by a simple thing - death.
I'd really love a role swap event to prove how hard it would be for all you tough gangsters and world rulers to try and get a court valid case on us.