The moaning ends now

[Arslan]

+ I don't see any reason why moaning is disallowed if that's the only way to attract attention on reports and rulebreaking.

No that isn't the only way. bad girling 24/7 pisses people off and ruins the atmosphere of the server as well as mood of large groups of people  because every bad girling and moaning topic turns into a war between people when it shouldn't even be posted there but reported to admins or HQ via means provided. And if you still think like this and anyone else who does is a cancer to this community.

Also people need to learn not everything is perfect but just adapt to what is there and try to have fun out of it.

[Aiden.]

This topic needs to be made earlier. I'm really happy that you made it and I think people will surely change their behavior after reading this.

Moaning about every single thing isn't a good way, if anyone is having a problem with anything, why not they simple go private and talk with developers? Is it necessary to make a topic and then start moaning on it? I think people only doing this just to get attention.

Found something which is not fair for criminals but giving advantages to cops? Great! lets make a topic and have some fun on it. First of all people needs to stop being try hard.

Scripters/developers work hard every day and night, If still people moan instead of appreciating the hard work, why not they go and try making their own shit and then realize how the f**k it really works.

Thank you for making this, Teddy.

[Mikhail Zakhaev]

To be honest I didn't notice any extraordinary amounts of moaning. If anything there's been a lot of praise. Not sure what triggered this topic.

Touché.

[Teddy]

+ I don't see any reason why moaning is disallowed if that's the only way to attract attention on reports and rulebreaking.

A concept I am not surprised you fail to understand to be quite honest. You see you are actually entirely wrong and I will give you an example where elaborating and being constructive helps.

You see in reality moaning doesn't draw attention to the problem  as it only causes massive fights and people get so wrapped up in the argument than they do the actual point. As we've seen in recent topics they quickly became about so much more than what the origin was about. There was so many points and content that was entirely irrelevant that it became impossible to decode what was contributing to the original point and what was purely excess that added no value. If people are more constructive and remain on point then we're able to quickly see the problem, see people's feedback, and see some suggested solutions and responses to those solutions, then we're able to more quickly and efficiently rectify the problem.

I really hope you come to understand this.

To be honest I didn't notice any extraordinary amounts of moaning. If anything there's been a lot of praise. Not sure what triggered this topic.

Perhaps you're perspective is a bit different and that is totally fine. However from the point I sit I see it at the point that I don't even want to show up here anymore because I know it's going to be nothing but regressive comments and cheap arguments that don't come close to solving anything.

[TiMoN]

Free speech > Overly censored forums
Let people speak their minds and work on solving the things they're complaining about, they'll eventually get tired of shitting on eachother and get over it.

I have tried putting myself in a dev's shoes and all I see is people complaining about nerfs that are done based on assumptions or missing features which I as a QA member and player had been constantly telling everyone of how crucial them being on release was.

[Ramo_Hawk]

A concept I am not surprised you fail to understand to be quite honest. You see you are actually entirely wrong and I will give you an example where elaborating and being constructive helps.

You see in reality moaning doesn't draw attention to the problem  as it only causes massive fights and people get so wrapped up in the argument than they do the actual point. As we've seen in recent topics they quickly became about so much more than what the origin was about. There was so many points and content that was entirely irrelevant that it became impossible to decode what was contributing to the original point and what was purely excess that added no value. If people are more constructive and remain on point then we're able to quickly see the problem, see people's feedback, and see some suggested solutions and responses to those solutions, then we're able to more quickly and efficiently rectify the problem.

I really hope you come to understand this.

I actually do understand your point and obviously I do agree with you, but on certain cases you do require to bring attention, don't you? Constructive or not, its still moaning.

[Teddy]

Free speech > Overly censored forums
Let people speak their minds and work on solving the things they're complaining about, they'll eventually get tired of shitting on eachother and get over it.

This isn't censorship. We can trial censorship if you want to get a taste of what that is like.

As for your suggestion we tried that and it only grew worse and worse with no end in sight. It's not going to fix the problems when it itself is a problem. This is addressing the very problem of in itself. You see many people come on the forums and moan but haven't been in-game in ages. Why? Because it doesn't take any effort to come on here and complain and jump into a random shitstorm.

There is also no such thing as free speech. Just an FYI. No matter what country you live in or what freedom you think you have and don't have. Free speech is a mirage.

[Teddy]

I actually do understand your point and obviously I do agree with you, but on certain cases you do require to bring attention, don't you? Constructive or not, its still moaning.

I guess that is a fair enough point. In my perspective moaning is just complaining without any point or interest of making improvements. It's complaining for the sake of complaining. I guess in other's perspective it could be just suggesting things in a complaining manner. I will clarify again, this is only for people who complain without being constructive. It's really not much to ask for. We put a lot of work into this and we actually want constructive criticism, it helps us make this better for you. Nonconstructive criticism however just pushes us away.

[Norrage]

I am glad this point has been reached to be honest. Got some questions about it tho. As said above, moaning has a large meaning. When will something be counted as moaning and when won't it?

[Teddy]

I am glad this point has been reached to be honest. Got some questions about it tho. As said above, moaning has a large meaning. When will something be counted as moaning and when won't it?

When it's just aimless ranting that has no constructive value. Obviously, if someone is just sharing their thoughts it won't be a problem. We don't expect everyone to agree with everything we do and/or don't do. We are just tired of people constantly throwing around complaints with no intention of actually improving the state of things. There is a hefty majority of people who come on the forums just to get involved in arguments, degrade the quality of those possible discussions, and don't actually play the game. All we want is more solution-producing discussions on the problems people have. I cannot solve all the problems here on my own. The community needs to work as one to produce those solutions and work to achieving them.

[TiMoN]

This isn't censorship. We can trial censorship if you want to get a taste of what that is like.

Handing out 1 month bans to those who speak of true shit no matter how whiny they seem is clearly a form of censorship.

You see many people come on the forums and moan but haven't been in-game in ages. Why? Because it doesn't take any effort to come on here and complain and jump into a random shitstorm.

Then make it clear to them, either get ingame and start playing or get the fuck out. These are the guys you should be shutting up, not active players.

[Teddy]

Handing out 1 month bans to those who speak of true shit no matter how whiny they seem is clearly a form of censorship.

I don't have time to be a babysitter. I quit being a teacher and working with kids 5 years ago because it was a broken system. It's not my job anymore and I have no intention of going back into it. If people have a problem they are free to express their truths. We will never stop that but if they are just going to complain and complain without any effort to actually contribute then they can kindly get the fuck out.

Then make it clear to them, either get ingame and start playing or get the fuck out. These are the guys you should be shutting up, not active players.

That is exactly what this topic is about. This won't limit active players from disagreeing or sharing their perspective on things in the slightest. As long as they are willing to help collectively in discussion then they are able to do so.

[Julio.]

I'd like to think most of the people who moan do have some good reason for it. (At least from their point of view). They shouldn't be criticising the hard work put in by the development team, but at the same time people should be able to state their own views.

It's difficult to administer this way. Depending on the mood of the banning administrator or lack of context this could result in individuals receiving a ban who perhaps wouldn't have done if the administrator had a better day at work or some other reason.

A few grey areas to be addressed, but otherwise, fair enough.

[Norrage]

Then make it clear to them, either get ingame and start playing or get the fuck out. These are the guys you should be shutting up, not active players.

This sounds like a better plan in my eyes. Active players know what they talk about, a moan somewhere won't do any harm. People constantly moaning with no solutions, inactive players bullshitting and players continiously opening new moan topics are the worst part. No need to disallow suggestion topics, but moan and complain topics should be removed immediatly to avoid shitstorms.

[TiMoN]

I don't have time to be a babysitter. I quit being a teacher and working with kids 5 years ago because it was a broken system. It's not my job anymore and I have no intention of going back into it. If people have a problem they are free to express their truths. We will never stop that but if they are just going to complain and complain without any effort to actually contribute then they can kindly get the fuck out.

Then why be naive enough to respond to them? Eventually everyone will get tired of their constant bitching and complaining and someone would tell them to shut the fuck up.