FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk

[Devin]

Remove this:


And Hydra can be removed also since the above is considered valid RP so I don't understand by use of hydra after the slaughter of so many cops doesn't warrant it for people with c4/grenades/rpg etc.

I do believe removal explosive ordinance should be removed for the good of the server and even if the Hydra stays, it cannot be used to shoot under any circumstance no matter what but only to track people in the sea.

So you simply knew that a person in a car you just drove up to is "John Corleone" without even seeing an ID? You tell a person to remain in the vehicle but do nothing to stop a person leaving the car and walking away.
You then get aimed at with an RPG, instead of taking evasive action someone is too busy typing "inb4 rpgs us" in the group chat.

And then you blame people for being hostile when you surround them and they have a notoriety and you do nothing to secure the area? Honestly speaking you brought that upon yourselves for not ensuring everyone remained in the vehicle as you arrived.

[Hubbestubbe]

It wouldn't be right to blame this all on FLA or all on SAPD. The last days the police have been more active in Flint Country, which we ofcourse have to respond to. Sure, we could interact more, but usually it ends up with "YOU TERRORIST SCUM"-kind of attitude and laughing at all our demands (I laugh at our demands too sometimes, but that's OOC). There is no way to negotiate any more, today I tried to talk to a cop at the LS tunnel, I simply asked him what was going on, in response he said "On your mark" at the radio and went behind his car, ready for a shootout. We left the scene.

As the police use better weapons, we do too. And vice versa, it's a vicious circle.

When under my command in the future, I will think more about interacting, sometimes it can be worth the risk to get tased. I hope the police does it too.

[taseen11]

instead of taking evasive action

I guess it's kinda hard to take evasive action when someone steps out with an M4 walks away then quickly scrolls to an RPG and takes somewhat of an aim with no RP  interaction whatsoever,  all within a couple of seconds.

[Arslan]

So you simply knew that a person in a car you just drove up to is "John Corleone" without even seeing an ID? You tell a person to remain in the vehicle but do nothing to stop a person leaving the car and walking away.
You then get aimed at with an RPG, instead of taking evasive action someone is too busy typing "inb4 rpgs us" in the group chat.

And then you blame people for being hostile when you surround them and they have a notoriety and you do nothing to secure the area? Honestly speaking you brought that upon yourselves for not ensuring everyone remained in the vehicle as you arrived.

Can't be serious. Try doing a traffic stop on them to check their ID and let me know what happens. Though that is another discussion.
 
I won't continue this because I think there is a huge lack of knowledge on what you're claiming we could've done. Nevertheless, point was, what FLA did warranted the use of Hydra and that was after they slaughtered cops, shot choppers down not, "oh FLA, lets bomb".

[Drix]

It wouldn't be right to blame this all on FLA or all on SAPD. The last days the police have been more active in Flint Country, which we ofcourse have to respond to. Sure, we could interact more, but usually it ends up with "YOU TERRORIST SCUM"-kind of attitude and laughing at all our demands (I laugh at our demands too sometimes, but that's OOC). There is no way to negotiate any more, today I tried to talk to a cop at the LS tunnel, I simply asked him what was going on, in response he said "On your mark" at the radio and went behind his car, ready for a shootout. We left the scene.

As the police use better weapons, we do too. And vice versa, it's a vicious circle.

When under my command in the future, I will think more about interacting, sometimes it can be worth the risk to get tased. I hope the police does it too.

Like wise my friend, i'll alert Command also.

[Devin]

Can't be serious. Try doing a traffic stop on them to check their ID and let me know what happens. Though that is another discussion.
 
I won't continue this because I think there is a huge lack of knowledge on what you're claiming we could've done. Nevertheless, point was, what FLA did warranted the use of Hydra and that was after they slaughtered cops, shot choppers down not, "oh FLA, lets bomb".

The video you just provided was of Corleone members, the person that shot the RPG is not even a part of FLA so I fail to see why you used this to try blame FLA for hostile actions.
What you were doing wasn't just a traffic stop now was it? Why would you call an unidentified person by name if it was.

Say I have a lack of knowledge all you like, but until you see things from either perspective you should take into consideration that as a law enforcement agency member you won't always win in a battle or situation.

[Arslan]

The video you just provided was of Corleone members, the person that shot the RPG is not even a part of FLA so I fail to see why you used this to try blame FLA for hostile actions.
What you were doing wasn't just a traffic stop now was it? Why would you call an unidentified person by name if it was.

Say I have a lack of knowledge all you like, but until you see things from either perspective you should take into consideration that as a law enforcement agency member you won't always win in a battle or situation.

Corleones are part of the FLA. It was just to show the type of actions people under the FLA flag do. Also he was in the front seat, we convicted the man, we know every detail about him from A-Z. So not unidentified. He stood trial in court after a long investigation on him and we knew exactly who he was.

Also we've also tried a traffic stop, all they do is /engine and vanish.

[Khm]

So you simply knew that a person in a car you just drove up to is "John Corleone" without even seeing an ID? You tell a person to remain in the vehicle but do nothing to stop a person leaving the car and walking away.
You then get aimed at with an RPG, instead of taking evasive action someone is too busy typing "inb4 rpgs us" in the group chat.

And then you blame people for being hostile when you surround them and they have a notoriety and you do nothing to secure the area? Honestly speaking you brought that upon yourselves for not ensuring everyone remained in the vehicle as you arrived.

Finally you woke up..
Arslan, please don't turn this discussion into a one situation that happened before we are sick and tired of these stuff, we are talking about all of it, not certain situations. This isn't a courtroom to provide evidences of someone's wrong deeds.
A thing I want to ask; why police are the ones who are dealing with FLA and colliding with them physically on the war zone? Why it's not the army doing that? Why it's the FBI and SWAT who're representing Argonath state? Is it because they are old players, is it because they are your friends and that makes them do what they like? This powerhunger must stop, seriously. They have already destroyed groups who WANTED to have their own role-play style with biased evidences to their beloved "friends". Last group was cia, don't make the FLA the next one, at least for the damn sake of what's left in this SA:MP division.

[Devin]

Please, be my guest and tell me how that action of tevins differs from when FLA was surrounded by cops and tased without a word said by the cops even after Mikal tried to speak with one of the officers and was plainly ignored? If you want to say tevins actions are wrong then in the same light all of the officers that tased FLA members at their HQ are in the wrong too.

[Marcell]

Can't be serious. Try doing a traffic stop on them to check their ID and let me know what happens. Though that is another discussion.

Arguments aside, I'm just trying to understand your logic here.
If FBI pulls over a criminal who's well aware of his crimes, in middle of day for no specified reason, he becomes 100% aware of what's going on since you boys are subtle as a bucket of bricks, do you expect him to simply give up everytime, even when he has a fair chance of running?

BTW: I burst out laughing saying the Hydra was justified, I have 2 recordings of that assault and what was simply going on, was a single civilian in Angel Pine that was wanted for murder being aided by us.... fact being, we aren't even using RPGs against you guys, which even if we did, are simply useless against a Hydra jet. We do use a C4 there and there, but today showed how useless it is - exploding 2 times right at your guys' feet, it only dropped their 2k armors fully, while they remained at nearly full HP.

[Mikal]

Even tho we do not use public affairs as S.A.P.D to explain our side from the law enfrocement and we're always guilty for our way we react to this group, i'd like to say a few words in this topic. First of it i'm glad that Eyemas did this topic but at the same time i'm disappointed as the leaders of F.L.A failed to make one of it or at-least try to approach diplomatically in-game in order to maintain this issue and take responsibility over their actions. Maybe this is the reason why they are counted as a terrorist group, because they have nothing to loose, they use maximum ammunation and people (/cb COME ANGEL LETS KILL COPPAS)) to finish one  goal - Kill as much law enforcement as possible and turn this server into a TDM. Thing is i agree with Eyemas, as much as Mikal can brag ppl are joining Argonath just for FLA (or other mafia members come to angel pine just for fla) some people are leaving this server just because of FLA, some are sick of this server because of FLA, why? Because we cannot enjoy what we used to do(personally speaking)... instead of me worrying on leading and developing my department, creating random scenarios in-game for my Officers.. I need to worry about gathering units into responding a group of terrorist who have "executed" one of my officers and are barricaded inside an interior with C4. I gotta worry about setting tasks forces, patrols, border checks in order to prevent SAPD Officers being killed just because they enter that area. I'm getting sick of this, i didn't sign up for this.. i didn't sign up to handle people who have no idea on leadership or maintaining reputation of their own group.

First of, why should we have to call people to Angel Pine to 'kill coppahs', why don't you just stay away? According to you we are terrorists, why would you go to a terrorist controlled town and then moan about being shot at? The thing is that you are so desperate to enforce your laws on us that it's usually you guys who cause the shootouts, you come telling us to remove our masks, you come telling us to put pay our weapons, etc, as I have said, don't come to us and there will not be a shootout, stop saying "they come to Angel Pine" as if you've always been there, Angel Pine was DEAD before FLA moved in, we've spread activity to a quiet part of the map and yet we still cannot seem to escape the police who are always looking for someone to /su.

Why can't you enjoy what you used to? Nobody forces you to come to us, you do it by yourselves... Why play the victim like this? We do not come to you, you are free to go and do whatever you want but it seems you'd rather be in Angel Pine or setting up a roadblock for like 5 hours at Flint Bridge just because it's something FLA usually did.

Why do you need to worry about doing anything? Why do you need to worry about FLA members barricaded inside an interior rigged with C4? You don't, you could leave and chase normal criminal in Los Santos like normal cops, but once again, you'd rather stay in Angel Pine.

You say you're getting sick of doing things YOU CHOOSE TO DO, nobody forces any cops to enforce Argonath laws on FLA members, you do it by yourselves.

What do you mean I have no idea on leadership or maintaining the reputation of my own group? FLA started in November last year and has just grown and grown and grown, we (before this chaos) created a unique group/RP style which SA:MP Argonath hadn't seen before, something other than the constant repetitive mafia (no offence to mafiosos) and it has kept growing ever since, we have dedicated members who respect what FLA is and what it is trying to do, sure alot of our members might have some sort of grudge against law enforcement and perhaps that's why they join, but I think the fact is, you can't handle something being more powerful than law enforcement (depending on the time/day) and that is why there's constant moaning about FLA DMing, abusing RPG's, abusing /barriers, abusing C4, abusing interiors, etc.

Funny story related to the above, and I've underlined that just for those who don't want to read this whole thing and don't understand what kind of bitterness goes on round here, I was actually told by a HQ member to stop inviting people to FLA just so they could use RPG's without notoriety (a script I had requested for FLA), the reason it's funny is that we don't and never have had any script like that, it's just that so many cops were complaining to spite FLA when we didn't even have such a script to abuse.

The only solution for this is for you to resign from FLA Mikal, a true leader does not speak like this. I look at Hubbe and i look at you i see a big difference. A leader who has nothing to earn, a leader who does not plan, a leader who has nothing to loose is not a leader... all you are doing is gathering up people, getting them killed, and in the end what are you winning? Nothing. A leader is best when people barely know he exists, he's patient and focuses more in a certain goal and vision instead of focusing into a war. Why can't you have peace and freedom? Because you execute Officers adverse it on the news, you approach law with R.P.G.S on public areas, you attack their roadblocks with your men, you take zero responsibility for your actions, always winning in your mind, always fooling people.

Sure, I'll just resign from the group I co-created and have raised from nothing to something which is pretty much as powerful as law enforcement, just without the free weapons and heavy air... I do have nothing to lose and I'm actually proud of that, I've put myself in a position where the courts can't touch me, and why wouldn't I if I truly believe the Argonath courts have to jurisdiction in Flint Country, wouldn't you say that's the planning that you say I don't do? Trust me when I say this, we do plan alot, which is why we've done so much obliterating lately, and every loss we take is just in my eyes, another exposure of our enemies weaknesses.

You say that all I'm doing is gathering people and getting them killed but, what the fuck is this?:
[PICTURE HEAVY]

Spoiler for Hiden:

This is your co-workers who gathered together in Flint Country to provoke us, and ended up getting obliterated, this is your people doing exactly what you accuse me of doing, we don't gather people to kill cops, we gather people to protect our home from an oppressive government, the forces of which are lead by you, Drix, as I've said many times don't enter Flint Country to provoke us and we won't need to gather and army to fight you.

I don't think you are a very good leader yourself, so seriously, do not try to lecture me on this.

Another situation where you guys approached us and died... Thank you for that.
Honestly, in that situation, I thought you guys needed to be taught a lesson, for days we had been creating roadblocks and every one ended up with us being killed by SWAT, in that situation we had an opportunity and we took it, we had spent about 30 minutes driving around with tractors protesting before that started, before you came, so nobody can claim we went there just to fight with SWAT, once again, since you came to us, sure it could have gone down a melee fight road instead, but that would have just ended up with you guys /suspecting everyone and then that would have just lead to a shootout.

What you do is keeping the players come? Yes, we get shootouts they die and then what? Do they remain there and roleplay? No they simply leave wait till another shoot-out comes, so they get to kill some cops. Nothing permanently productive, simply temporary. We work by our constitution and as long as Gandalf or court will not edit it and claim you guys are independent we will keep coming and disrupting those actions. Why do you have to continue it instead of creating your group other roleplay scenarios? Go over the woods, role-play rebels moving arms from state to state not on highways on convoys but out of sight! There are plenty of others things you can roleplay to get players interaction in county areas instead of roadblocks and shootouts!

Woah, stop the propaganda, this topic is out of RP, in your eyes we always die right? Wrong, just goes to show how ontop of the world you think law enforcement are, which is why FLA are teaching you a real lesson in equality, we've created a group that law enforcement cannot always defeat, and you do not like it.

We'll get back to our roleplay when you guys stop coming into Flint Country looking for a shootout.

There you go again twisting the situation, making yourself look like a victim in the eyes of others. What you did is : You shoot at heavy air, and barricaded yourself inside, then the units attempted to breach the area you were inside, then you got out and got killed/tazed, some officers thought it would be a joke to piss on you because of the pictures you have posted about them lately (some of them are victims :P) but they did it in a way of banter even at the same time i pm'd you to ignore it as it wasn't professional. People were warned that day.

So that's all..

Oh yes, the heavy air that was in Angel Pine with you when you guys came looking for another shootout, the heavy air which had, just a day before, flown around Angel Pine shooting rockets anywhere and everywhere, from what I heard, hitting plenty of people.

I had shot at it with a Deagle (why wouldn't I with what you guys were doing?), I doubt I even hit it as Deagle doesn't have that much range, I was semi-AFK at the time, no cops had approached me after I had fired, I went in FLA HQ and went AFK for about 30 minutes, uploading pictures to FLA topic (you can go see them if you want, was alot), I come back and see a /ad about 'FLA leader hiding from law enforcement in FLA HQ', I come outside and see a bunch of cops aiming at me, I legged it, got tased, suspected for shooting whilst in the forced /ill animation and then insta-cuffed with no chance to escape, if taser isn't OP, I really don't know what is, wouldn't be the first time shit like that has happened to be either.

Did I forget to mention that Hunter you brought to the roadblock we did at Flint Bridge which shot rockets at us? Yes, after we had shot at it, but it was clear how that situation would have turned out, SAPD would shoot us, we'd shoot back, and then the Hunter would have had reason to rocket fire us all to death leading to lots of SAPD saying "rekt" on /p, we've all seen that before...

We were discussing a peace deal in FLA HQ earlier, don't even know why we'd bother now seeing how bitchy you're being, might aswell keep up the fight, since we "always die" you guys got nothing to worry about right?

[taseen11]

Please, be my guest and tell me how that action of tevins differs from when FLA was surrounded by cops and tased without a word said by the cops even after Mikal tried to speak with one of the officers and was plainly ignored? If you want to say tevins actions are wrong then in the same light all of the officers that tased FLA members at their HQ are in the wrong too.

The fact that they were warned several times on the way to the barn and that there was interaction within the situation beforehand?

[Arslan]

Arguments aside, I'm just trying to understand your logic here.
If FBI pulls over a criminal who's well aware of his crimes, in middle of day for no specified reason, he becomes 100% aware of what's going on since you boys are subtle as a bucket of bricks, do you expect him to simply give up everytime, even when he has a fair chance of running?

And I understand that. I didn't say you should step out of the car and lay on the ground as if it was a fairly tale. I was merely making the point as Devin so easily said you could've done this or that to stop them when as you've showed, even stopping criminals for a traffic stop is close to impossible successful.

Post

I'm not but I can see your very angry and letting it all out so I'll let you continue.

[Arslan]

Please, be my guest and tell me how that action of tevins differs from when FLA was surrounded by cops and tased without a word said by the cops even after Mikal tried to speak with one of the officers and was plainly ignored? If you want to say tevins actions are wrong then in the same light all of the officers that tased FLA members at their HQ are in the wrong too.

I do accept there are errors on both sides. What is needed is stronger management of groups from both sides. Any flaws, the people responsible should be pulled out after and explained what to change after by their leaders.

Though I'm not sure which situation you're referring to.

I am actually in favor of group leaders talking to each other in trying to create a good RP scene together if there are mass numbers on both sides if there is like a confrontation of FLA V Cops. Like explain to each other how we gonna play it out and reach common grounds on the end. Of course I am talking about like BIG RPs where there are big numbers involved which end up in DM.

[Khm]

I'm not but I can see your very angry and letting it all out so I'll let you continue.

You are and you did. If you took that as I am angry then you lack the skills of having a hard argumentative discussion which is actually needed in here. I am just taking the chance of this being dropped out into the public face and the naked truth being shown to everyone to ensure keeping FLA's newly role-play style within the server. Like I said earlier, I've played with the 3 role-play faces; the top criminals, the innocent citizen and the top cop. I know all the old tricks and tools on how each side work which is rather disgusting to.., nvm you won't understand anyways.
And it's you're*