Rockstars Version 5.2.1: Territory Edition

[TiMoN]

Gandalf you're like the grown up version of Timon and Mikal combined

ego boost

[Nathan]

holy shit it's happening

I just spent a good portion reading through this entire thread and honestly, it's quite sad to see where we are now.

On one side, we have an owner who has been so removed from his community for so long and only recently decided to come back and make executive decisions.

On another side, we have (or had I should say) a leadership team who is putting bandaids on a sinking ship thinking it will stay afloat.

On the last side, we have the players who think they know what they want.

Guys. We have excellent ideas, but we completely fucked up the execution of these ideas. We must bear this weight and understand that we fucked up the community. And because of this fuck up, the older (or "veterans" who have been with the community for over 3+ years) players have simply lost interest in participating in the community.

First, we need to realize that we can't bring back pre-RS4.1 audience and scripts. That golden era is gone.

Second, we must take proper action. I am honestly on the side of the veterans and the regulars of the server. Those who still are active in game and make Argonath what it is today. Gandalf, please listen to the active players. See the needs. Respond appropriately. I know where you are coming from as being an owner of the server. I, myself, am a business owner and sometimes I need to realize that I too can be wrong. Please respond appropriately to the community that has your back.

Third, we need to stop developing new scripts and adding more "stuff" to the server. It's like adding lipstick to a pig, it's still a pig. And it's not kosher. We need to refine the current scripts, make everything more streamlined, and only then should we have more "stuff" added.

Lastly, we must realize that the community and the audience has changed. This community is not the same that it was 3+ years ago. Most of us are getting older and not as active, we still have active players who still take part. We must hand them the keys to decide what they need from the server. This could be the removal of the blimps (though personally I hate this idea). Because the audience has changed, the server itself will have to change.

One more thing, as a business owner, one day we will need to wipe our hands and walk away. SA:MP is no longer relevant. I mean the game is over 10 years old now. It's sad, it's hard, but it's needed. I predict by 2020 that SA:MP server will not be relevant anymore.

[Adam]

You're one of a kind. 

[Rei]

Is this system still going?

[Gird3r]

Gandalf, please listen to the active players.

I'll commend them on keeping the community alive for 10 years, but this is simply an impossibility.
The "dictator" way that I once used to defend simply does not work anymore.

Perhaps now you people understand what we lost back when SA:MP first opened.

There's alot of pressure on the owner to just listen. Doubt he ever will.
And yes I implied one owner, because RON is completely irrelevant at this point, no matter how much I liked him (despite his overly agressive behaviour), at some point you just don't give a fuck anymore.

And yes I noticed HQ tried to implement micro transactions (This is seriously something I expected from the likes of Seifer and AB). At that point you should have just pulled the plug, let good old memories be memories and move on.

As I see it, you can either pull the plug, or listen to your veterans, or do nothing, go back to the shadows. Stay there and let the community slowly die. I like how you care about new players. That is good, do not get me wrong here. But they know pretty much nothing about the community. Focusing solely on that group is a fool proof way to degrade this "World of it's own", as we can witness now.

And do not even try to hit me with a "Well what did you do" crap I see so often coming from people here all in to a hurry to defend. I did (and many others did).
And the results were nothing. (Like it was never considered duh).

I've said my piece on this pivotal moment in this community, I got nothing more to add. I'll just reminiscence about what for me personally was the best times, and just wish some form of luck on this sinking ship. 

(ripped this from google, no fucks given)

[jovanca]

I used to post topics asking for improvements within rules, scripts and more, untill recently. I realised why was i wrong to do that, and i hope others might understand as well. Gandalf and others made community with an idea, with a vision. What we are requesting is simply going against the vision they had when starting the community and still to this day have . We have no right to request that, or even if we do, we have no right to complain about it not being added to the server. If you don't like it, well, you are free to leave.

Try and see situation from Gandalf's point of view. You start your own thing with an idea, and others try to change it. You won't let them do that, will you?

[Gird3r]

I used to post topics asking for improvements within rules, scripts and more, untill recently. I realised why was i wrong to do that, and i hope others might understand as well. Gandalf and others made community with an idea, with a vision. What we are requesting is simply going against the vision they had when starting the community and still to this day have . We have no right to request that, or even if we do, we have no right to complain about it not being added to the server. If you don't like it, well, you are free to leave.

Try and see situation from Gandalf's point of view. You start your own thing with an idea, and others try to change it. You won't let them do that, will you?

This is why people leave the community. 

Give suggestion/wish/hope/whatever, get eschewed. Told to get the fuck out, or in nicer words: "Free to leave".


Eventually they will leave. Good game. 

Why the hell should people have to leave because they want their community to improve?

"Guys we got no food for our farms this year. What do we do?"
"Could we try X?"
"No that goes against what this person says that visits once every 6th month."
"But I do not like the fact that we will have no food. Cannot we work for a solution?"
"Yes, but we have to wait 6 months for the decision. If you do not like this you are free to leave".

All of them starve, the lone guy just gtfos to another community that is not so close minded as to think that "Free to leave" is some magical
buzzword that will solve everything.

We gave up hours upon hours of our studying time/free time as moderators, administrators, managers, community leaders and developers to help keep this community alive. All of it for "free to leave" is like slapping someone on the dick with a iron golfclub and kicking them in the balls with steel toed work shoes, laced with spikes.

[jovanca]

This is why people leave the community. 

Give suggestion/wish/hope/whatever, get eschewed. Told to get the fuck out, or in nicer words: "Free to leave".


Eventually they will leave. Good game. 

Why the hell should people have to leave because they want their community to improve?

"Guys we got no food for our farms this year. What do we do?"
"Could we try X?"
"No that goes against what this person says that visits once every 6th month."
"But I do not like the fact that we will have no food. Cannot we work for a solution?"
"Yes, but we have to wait 6 months for the decision. If you do not like this you are free to leave".

All of them starve, the lone guy just gtfos to another community that is not so close minded as to think that "Free to leave" is some magical
buzzword that will solve everything.

We gave up hours upon hours of our studying time/free time as moderators, administrators, managers, community leaders and developers to help keep this community alive. All of it for "free to leave" is like slapping someone on the dick with a iron golfclub and kicking them in the balls with steel toed work shoes, laced with spikes.

You keep talking like there's a problem that needs to be solved while there really isn't one. Why keep playing the game if you don't like it? Did you read my post at all?

[Gird3r]

You keep talking like there's a problem that needs to be solved while there really isn't one. Why keep playing the game if you don't like it? Did you read my post at all?

You are in a thread that got to be 14 pages long so far because players indentified a problem.

Or how about this gem? http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=117492.0

This is you right now:



And this is pretty much everyone else in the thread, regardless if their suggestions are good or stupid:



Once I made a thread in the moderator section of the SA:MP administration forums adressing the tendency of "shoving the dirt under the mattress". I see this tendency is still ongoing, which is a huge dissapointment.


But sure, bend over. Never question. God forbid you actually have an opinion and/or suggestion on how to proceed!

Start off by stopping every ongoing war on the server. At least untill community heals from it's current state

But there really is not any problems right? 

@Gandalf so while we're trying to create a better rp atmosphere in game, and find something actually worth fighting, you decide to give players a reason to fight 24/7?

edit: excuse is a better word.

Right? Still sure there are no problems? 

Pot calling the keetle back, boy.

[Leon.]

Seifer and AB)

did you really just...

[jovanca]

Majority agrees to it so it must be the right thing to do right? No, not really. Quoting my earlier posts will make no sense by the way, i said myself that i used to request changes but i have realised i was wrong. Community is the way owners imagined it, i see nothing wrong about keeping it that way. If i didn't like it i would leave, and i suggest you do the same.

[Cofiliano]

Gotta agree with both Nathan(which is like the first time) and Gir3r.

Gandalf its your place, you, RON, Legolas, and others made this place, you invested time and lots of money into it.

On the other hand, there's alot of people who didn't invest their money, but invested years of their time in Argonath, which should count for something.

After all, we're all here for Argonath's good.

Community is the way owners imagined it

No, its not.

I can name you dozens of changes that happened since 2008, that didn't fit in the vision they had, and that Gandalf was mostly declining them for years, until one point they got implemented.

[Manoni]

Community is the way owners imagined it, i see nothing wrong about keeping it that way.

Ok then we shall let them play their community. Oh wait, they probably forgot their forum password or do not even have an account registered in the server.

[[NP]Monte Montague]

I was waiting for some-one to notice a reality of the situations at hand and it seems C. J(ovanca) was the one:

I used to post topics asking for improvements within rules, scripts and more, untill recently. I realised why was i wrong to do that, and i hope others might understand as well. Gandalf and others made community with an idea, with a vision. What we are requesting is simply going against the vision they had when starting the community and still to this day have . We have no right to request that, or even if we do, we have no right to complain about it not being added to the server. If you don't like it, well, you are free to leave.

This line should've been followed when there were people (who claimed to really care) shitting all over the vision in a clear attempt to cause instability as some way to bring about stability and progression.

Working off of peoples fears and fueling the fire with half thought plans that can not be carried through without people leaving, bitterness, dodging and diving, simply being stubborn and difficult or being energized by ego and disastrous behavior in public.
 But no worries, no need to grieve over those who still live. After they have stopped sulking they will get over it!
Back on track of what worked previously. Onward.

Ok then we shall let them play their community. Oh wait, they probably forgot their forum password or do not even have an account registered in the server.

I suppose a reason could be put up to justify a campaign to persecute, witch hunt and generally be negative & work off of (for the worse) peoples sentiments and fears.

It's very easy to come-up with and it's surely very beneficial campaign for all to take on board this very unhelpful way of thinking.

Well at-least some of the guardians, and pure and cleansed non active regulars returned to post on this thread. No wait... that's a bad thing as they're just popping up clearly to take part in negative destructive campaign to make Argonath something it was never set out to be, with some supposed expertise & infallible anointed knowledge.

[Exterminator]

Ok then we shall let them play their community. Oh wait, they probably forgot their forum password or do not even have an account registered in the server.

You are standing here right now quite literally insulting the owner of this community and nothing happens to you. Try doing that with half of the admins/managers IG and you'd be banned, or on the forums at the very least the topic locked and you forum warned.

Yet, the owner doesn't. That's a pretty damn good indication that he's open minded as hell, and let's not forget that everytime the vision was violated in the past it was still done with Gandalf's consent, and hence it was him who changed his mind. As of now, he doesn't want this in his server, and as the guy who not only owns it but pays the bills, he has every right to decide that, regardless of how popular that decision may be. If he was somebody else, this thread would have been locked with the very first post against him.