Question

[Arslan]

If person 1 is being chased by person 2 and while running person 1 runs into LSPD and goes on duty to avoid person 2 even though person 2 was right behind him. Is this considered script abuse?

I think it is clearly script abuse as a script is being used for a purpose for which it is not designed.

Thoughts?

[Hubbestubbe]

What stops you from continue chasing him?

[Arslan]

What stops you from continue chasing him?

Question isn't if something stops me from chasing him but him going on cop duty during a chase. What I want to be clear is if someone is chasing you can you just run on cop duty? So next time if I do it some different guy doesn't claim script abuse.

[Marcel]

Considering the situation in your original post, then yes, it would be script abuse.

However, I believe your situation is lacking some context which could be of importance in this specific instance. If person 2 does not have a legitimate roleplay reason to give chase, then if there were no admins online, then I consider it fair game for person 1 to go on duty to protect himself from this. If there were admins online, then person 1 should have used the /report command instead.

If person 2 had a legitimate reason to give chase, then it is script abuse which should have been dealt with as a rulebreak if there was any staff available at that moment.

[Younes]

It's more like unfair for the chasing party to go on duty while being chased.. but if he's for example an off duty officer then it could be reasonable because he went inside LSPD for his own protection and to get his own equipment..

It is better to see what comes up next before giving a judgment for this kind of situations..

[Arslan]

This is what happen - person 1 was about to be kidnapped but evaded. After evading for some time while person 2 was after him he ran inside LSPD and went on duty. There was admin online and the reason for chase was legit and there wasn't any shoot to kill situation. Person 1 was NOT a uc cop, random civilian who then went on freecop duty.  In this context, I think it is very clearly abuse.

As for reporting, I did report it and the admin didn't even consider asking little more detail about the situation and gave a straight judgement claiming it isn't script abuse.

This is the response I got on report:
[12:47:24] PM from admin(8): and which script exactly is he abusing?
[12:47:31] PM to admin(8): hes a civilian running and he ran in going on duty?
[12:47:46] PM to admin(8): in which rp context does that make sense? 
[12:47:51] PM from admin(8): well he cant just go "on duty" unless he's already sapd
[12:49:08] PM from admin(8): script abuse is when you use gates that others cant follow
[12:49:30] PM to admin(8): script abuse is using a script for a purpose for which it is not designed. 
[12:49:30] PM from admin(8): like going into sapd garage while on duty, for example
[12:49:42] PM to admin(8): that is the definition of script abuse. 
[12:49:51] PM from admin(8): it is not script abuse
[12:49:58] PM to admin(8): and he was running form someone and he used a script just to avoid it 

The red line makes no sense to me.

[Khm]

This is what happen - person 1 was about to be kidnapped but evaded.

If he already evaded then you can't force him to not go on duty (which is obviously he goes on duty frequently since he had no notoriety or criminal score)

[Arslan]

If he already evaded then you can't force him to not go on duty (which is obviously he goes on duty frequently since he had no notoriety or criminal score)

Just to be clear, in this situation evaded is not that he's lost the chaser but where the chaser is still behind him.

And thanks, if this is the case then that's fine. Just needed a clear answer form a big man.

[Stivi]

He's trying to give you a rp context where it makes sense. You have to part of the "SAPD" group in order to just go on duty, otherwise, you need to take the test.

If he claims another character afterwards, then it is abuse and should be punished. If not, you sure you can't really just kill him there and then? Usually this kind of people will report you for DM but the admins are understanding of such situations where you just blast the fuck out of the guy

[Younes]

If I'm an off-duty officer and I'm being chased by 6 Ballas, I can simply head to LSPD in order to suit myself and gather my equipment, but I remain on same character, same scenario, you still can come for me. But if I'm just a freecop who randomly went to LSPD because it gives freeguns in order to kill my kidnappers, it's more likely an abuse of the duty function to an unfair point for the other party..

[JDC]

However, I believe your situation is lacking some context which could be of importance in this specific instance. If person 2 does not have a legitimate roleplay reason to give chase, then if there were no admins online, then I consider it fair game for person 1 to go on duty to protect himself from this. If there were admins online, then person 1 should have used the /report command instead.

If I'm an off-duty officer and I'm being chased by 6 Ballas, I can simply head to LSPD in order to suit myself and gather my equipment, but I remain on same character, same scenario, you still can come for me. But if I'm just a freecop who randomly went to LSPD because it gives freeguns in order to kill my kidnappers, it's more likely an abuse of the duty function to an unfair point for the other party..

I would go with these two. If the people chasing you could be classified as "kidnappers," then the assumption is that there is a roleplay scenario in action. In this case, RP characters come into play as follows:

If I'm an off-duty officer and I'm being chased by 6 Ballas, I can simply head to LSPD in order to suit myself and gather my equipment, but I remain on same character, same scenario, you still can come for me. But if I'm just a freecop who randomly went to LSPD because it gives freeguns in order to kill my kidnappers, it's more likely an abuse of the duty function to an unfair point for the other party.

But if there is no RP scenario in play, the people chasing you to kill you can be classified as DM. In such cases, admins should handle it. In the absence of any admins, players should be able to defend themselves from DM - especially if it's a hacker - by whatever means (short of using hacks, etc), although calling admins to help should also be a priority.

A legitimate RP scenario cannot commence / continue properly if there is non-RP combat (DM) that prevents RP from taking place. While admins are always the first priority to deal with this, IMO in their absence the defense of players against DMers and hackers to preserve an environment for RP takes precedence over the distinction between RP characters.

That would mean that...

But if I'm just a freecop who randomly went to LSPD because it gives freeguns in order to kill my kidnappers, it's more likely an abuse of the duty function to an unfair point for the other party.

...would apply in an RP scenario, because "kidnapper/s" exist within RP. But if there is no RP involved and no admins are online, it's a matter of player self-defense against DM until admins arrive.

EDIT: Also, some interesting historical trivia:

in the MTA:VC days [shooting back at DMers] is exactly what we did... if a DMer comes in, show them that RPer can fight him so he either gets curious about the added value of RP, or moves back to his server in shame that he can not beat "RP pussies".

[Vaeldious]

[12:47:51] PM from admin(8): well he cant just go "on duty" unless he's already sapd
The red line makes no sense to me.

Just so you have clarification from the "admin" (mod, actually) that handled your report, a civilian cannot simply go on duty unless they were already accepted into the lawdog group, making whatever char the player is using an "off-duty" police officer. Personally, I would consider it an abuse if he had gone in and had to TAKE the LSPD test before being able to go on duty while being chased.

To me, an off-duty officer running into LSPD to go on duty is no different then a gang member running towards his "homies" in a moment of peril, and entirely backed by RP from before the "chase" because player 2 would already BE a member of LEOs. If he went on duty to hide in LSPD garage, that would be a different story and abuse because player 1 would be unable to follow or continue the RP.

[Arslan]

Just so you have clarification from the "admin" (mod, actually) that handled your report, a civilian cannot simply go on duty unless they were already accepted into the lawdog group, making whatever char the player is using an "off-duty" police officer. Personally, I would consider it an abuse if he had gone in and had to TAKE the LSPD test before being able to go on duty while being chased.

To me, an off-duty officer running into LSPD to go on duty is no different then a gang member running towards his "homies" in a moment of peril, and entirely backed by RP from before the "chase" because player 2 would already BE a member of LEOs. If he went on duty to hide in LSPD garage, that would be a different story and abuse because player 1 would be unable to follow or continue the RP.

There is no solid answer to this based on the responses here and it's open to interpretation. In this case every guy who can go on duty whether they be a full time criminal or not and decide to keep their criminal score down to 0 is a off duty officer.

[Vaeldious]

There is no solid answer to this based on the responses here and it's open to interpretation.

Well, the responses being scattered is from lack of information about this specific situation. In general, people run to their cars/houses/offices where they have cases stashed (in this instance, it was an off-duty officer retrieving a service weapon he'd already earned via RP through the LSPD test).

So as far as:
Exploiting the script in any way that is unintended by the developers that gives you an advantage
The script is performing as intended, allowing off-duty officers with a clear criminal score to go on-duty and arming them with a service weapon.

In this case every guy who can go on duty whether they be a full time criminal or not and decide to keep their criminal score down to 0 is a off duty officer.

Then perhaps LSPD should keep its house in better order. Even off-duty officers can be cop banned if they are caught doing illegal activities, so you can always report to IA or go up the chain of command.

[Arslan]

Well, the responses being scattered is from lack of information about this specific situation. In general, people run to their cars/houses/offices where they have cases stashed (in this instance, it was an off-duty officer retrieving a service weapon he'd already earned via RP through the LSPD test).

So as far as:
Exploiting the script in any way that is unintended by the developers that gives you an advantage
The script is performing as intended, allowing off-duty officers with a clear criminal score to go on-duty and arming them with a service weapon.

And you know this how? You didn't even investigate the situation and gave a verdict as I said in my original post and since you want to discuss this I will point out some facts. This person was at Pershing square in a civilian car where he evaded but due to him crashing and having low vehicle HP to start with he then got out and jumped on a NRG and evaded again. Then he came back to LSPD again and ran inside to go on duty with the sole purpose of getting on cop duty so he wouldn't be chased.

Define what you mean by an off duty officer? Clearly you have some different understanding.

Then perhaps LSPD should keep its house in better order. Even off-duty officers can be cop banned if they are caught doing illegal activities, so you can always report to IA or go up the chain of command.

Do you even know how the ARPD works? People can't be held accountable while doing crimes off duty by SAPD unless they are in official SAPD and even SAPD officers probably can't as I think they may have changed it to supervisory ranks but definitely not free cops.

Also If I may add, if you had investigated this situation you would know that there was a cop after both of us two and he was a official SAPD officer. He told me to report him as well because the guy who went on duty is abusing since he's now not only evading me but also the cop.