Really sad to see this server dying

[Pandalink]

San Andreas is really old you guys, any kind of even remotely mainstream audience moved on a long time ago and the only people left on these older-game RP servers are the hardcore, dedicated roleplay types who this server was never built to appeal to. The server environment was always great for teenagers and young adults, but almost nobody in that age range right now grew up with San Andreas so it's not just not reasonable to expect there still to be people playing every day.

In terms of raw player count - you could fill the server with russian bots I guess but I assume that isn't what you're going for.

[bistoks]

some thing must be done 

[Miki.]

I respect you work as a staff member and it's not directed to you by any mean.
But current punishing is broken I see no reason for a veteran that DMed to be verbally warned unless it's a tricky situation and he really didn't acknowledge the fact he is DMing. but I see countless times when Veterans are getting away with the most basic rule breaking and this is f**ked up. When a new player logs in he is looking at the veteran behavior and every new player I try to help out PMes me a few days later that a group hunts him won't mention which groups but mostly it goes around the same pattern and when such groups of veterans are going around destroying first impression for new players you won't see the playerbase growing. instead of focusing on bringing old veterans back create new ones. leaving this community is hard enough for old veterans due to amount of friends and connections you create here if they left they had a good reason.

Well I rather investigate a report even for days if necesaary and at the end explain everything to both parties and then punish people then gping for straight bans and shit like that.
I personaly am not the kind of staff member that instantly warns or bans people without a good reasoning behind it. I understand that Veterans do also break rules but if there is nothing serious on their wrongdoings i chose to leave a verbal warning behind it. But if its done again then I go harsher.
Now about thr new players. I do respect the idea to bring new players in the server. BUT lets both me and you place ourselves in the place of a new player. Do you see the server being a roleplay server or a freeroam/dm server. I personally wouldnt see it as a roleplay server. Not with main chat and blips in it. Like I mentioned on a post above. We need roleplay rules and standarts to make Argonath a better place for new players. And for the hope to return the old veterans.

Yeah as I mentioned I don't know any staff that rushes into punishments often unless something is wrong ( maybe some how self opinion jumped and it does happen).
many reports are investigated for days because lets face it if staff rush into stuff many times wrong punishments can be given and today any one can record then staff weil get in trouble and over all yeah again I remember you as a staff previous time you were one and this time and it's not faced to you by any mean I always respected staff for giving their own gameplay experience to improve and keep the server runing properly. but the issue here is that stuff went too light lets you verbally warned a veteran that was your decision ( too in my opinion if it's a pure rulebreak that can't be a misunderstanding should be a straight harsher punishment.) many times next admin that meets that player issues him a warning verbally as well. and over all unless punishing will go more intense standards will be harder to raise I'd even say impossible because each of us knows at least one or two player names that aren't here to roleplay and never were yet they are still here.

It's possible to not get punished and roleplay and still go IG, just don't look for dirty ways to avoid death and don't look to avoid RP.
for the past year yeah I was rarely touched didn't get kidnaped much or captured mostly just died in shootouts if I did die but when it comes to some players they'd throw roleplay to the trash any day to not die and bring some twisted stupid 'respect' to their group when in my opinion avoiding a scene is much worse of a reputation hit. but I'm punishment clean for 6 years now my only punishments ever on argonath were out of newbie mistakes like we all did and not to mention I never got banned. and you guys saw that there were times that I was constantly IG active as hell yet I still manage to avoid shit and roleplay around. it's not much of a respect to follow the rules and rules are created to create order and keep the mentality of an RP server and not a freeroam like it is now. @Khm  worked on a new rule suggestion system but dropped it it's a shame could contribute alot.

I agree with you as far as I believe on everything related to this topic but I think punishments gone too light and in some cases even un fair since staff has different members and some times may come one to your case and interaction and punish you strictly but when you were on the right side comes another staff member that ends it with verbal warnings towards the rival rulebreaking side. if rules of punishing for staff will be organized people won't shout out biased often  or even rules are not needed just common sense and none-biased approach should be used and the server should be looked on as a RP server.

[Tyrone.]

No, it can be fixed, no verbal warning, just ban. ban 1 troller = 5 players will login.  Ban 1 dm er = 10 player will login, simple.

No. Ban 1 trollers and all his friends will never login. Ban 1 dmer and all his group will never login. Its is not simple at all. If we were gonna go for instantly ban people then we would have anyone left in the server. We try to make people understand their wrongdoings. If someone wants to be stubborn as hell, then we can go with a more harsher punishment.
Since people love to cry about "Verbal Warnings". Yes we do give allot of verbal warnings. I myself give a shit tone of verbal warnings. But If I see the same shit happening again from the same people No more verbal warnings. If you want us to be strict, sure we can be. But dont start bitching or crying for being too harsh.

Exactly what Bruce says. Before when Marcell and Richard got banned for DM and all Corleone/Associates went inactive. When they got unbanned and returned to the server Corleone came back to the activity. Currently Corleone is active but with new members. I cant say them Veterans. Richard left the server again and no one joins from the old Corleone.

[Kacper_Gorski]

tell u what bengt told me, and he was completely right

If the veterans don't teach the new ones, no one will and the server will die. Most veterans now encourage shootouts, as there is nothing to do, and no one can think of anything creative, other than a kidnap/rpdm situation. Us, the veterans must teach the new ones, and others to RP properly and make them enjoy their time.

If we don't make a change, no one will.

[Darty]

Us, the veterans must teach the new ones, and others to RP properly and make them enjoy their time.
If we don't make a change, no one will.

Kacper's got a point. Start encouraging roleplay scenarios, from the most simple ones, teach new players, that's how things will change.

But, it's not just that.

[Miki.]

Before you teach new players as a veteran you need to have some kind of proper standard yourself. I took countless amounts of new players and taught them RP and helped them through out trucking trips and I helped them with the path they chose instead of forcing them to do something or  carry them with me into my character's reality and many veterans keep saying " it's on us" but when it comes to gameplay they just log in and hold low standards and don't RP properly at all and even carry new players into that with them.

It's easy to speak on forums and write how much " teaching new players" is needed but don't get lazy and only write it go IG and make an actual change stop RPing only with your friends in your closed circle interact with new players this is the best place to teach them but don't hunt them like many like to, RP with them instead that way they will learn. So many cases I see of new players getting hunted over absurd reasons such as scam attempts and some kind of personal hate towards them after the chose the rival side ffs - they are new players let them choose their path and you can't constantly hunt them with out reasons.
when you go for a new player the way you'll behave is the way he'll behave in the future as simple as that. that's why I approach them to help and I'm neutral I'm trying to help the player choose his own path and I only offer my shoulder to climb on onhis way.

[Younes]

Let's be honest.. the client nor the game is dying. The server's environment had became toxic recently and players only farm money and do gang wars with their virtual enemies which is based on no roleplay interaction.

If the server wants to improve, it's not scripts. It's players. Players will need to change, and countless topics were made regarding this yet no improvement from anyone of us (including myself, so I'm not pointing any fingers to anyone). If you want the roleplay in the server to improve, start roleplaying minor things.. car crashes, flat car tire, selling hotdogs, limosine services, taxi services.. hangouts with your homies at Pershing Square.. be creative, don't see cops as an enemy and your enemies written in your topic as actual enemies. Don't interact with the tag or it's color, interact with how player dresses and talks. You're a criminal and see a cop? Use your mind, don't start provoking him to eventually start a shootout.. don't look at players as toys to pass time with and test your aiming ability at.. that isn't what a roleplay server is for.

Administrative approach had been strict, but no results were done simply because players do not want to change. The solution isn't in banning, the solution isn't in punishing.. it's in you changing your own self, your own groups. Take the initiative and see how it ends.. don't claim it'll never work when you're just sitting infront of your computer doing nothing, because it'll definitely not work if you're not going to move a finger muscle trying to roleplay.

[Miki.]

Let's be honest.. the client nor the game is dying. The server's environment had became toxic recently and players only farm money and do gang wars with their virtual enemies which is based on no roleplay interaction.

If the server wants to improve, it's not scripts. It's players. Players will need to change, and countless topics were made regarding this yet no improvement from anyone of us (including myself, so I'm not pointing any fingers to anyone). If you want the roleplay in the server to improve, start roleplaying minor things.. car crashes, flat car tire, selling hotdogs, limosine services, taxi services.. hangouts with your homies at Pershing Square.. be creative, don't see cops as an enemy and your enemies written in your topic as actual enemies. Don't interact with the tag or it's color, interact with how player dresses and talks. You're a criminal and see a cop? Use your mind, don't start provoking him to eventually start a shootout.. don't look at players as toys to pass time with and test your aiming ability at.. that isn't what a roleplay server is for.

Administrative approach had been strict, but no results were done simply because players do not want to change. The solution isn't in banning, the solution isn't in punishing.. it's in you changing your own self, your own groups. Take the initiative and see how it ends.. don't claim it'll never work when you're just sitting infront of your computer doing nothing, because it'll definitely not work if you're not going to move a finger muscle trying to roleplay.

It is the point here, easy to speak about how a change should be made and address the problems but lets face it - problems are known to everyone but no one is willing to lift his ass an actually work for a change.punishments are a problem at least in my opinion harsher punishment will make a change since they won't allow and scare players to RP lowly and there are too many cases of low RP around and absurd scenes.

[Khm]

There are also 3 kinds of veterans;
1- The one trolling around just to annoy people (we have a lot of them)
2- The one that takes the new player and shows him around and tells him what the server has and what it offers and lets him choose what he wants to do and what he joins.
3- The one that takes the new player, teaches him how to make drugs and tells him to sell the drugs to him for low prices, basically enslaving him for his own benefit then get him in shootouts when he gets killed eventually by another rival group, and the new player starts hating that rival group since this very veteran says that they've been fighting like that since years (new player will get the impression of how he firstly died by that rival group), and then the new player starts getting into trouble with staff team until he gets bored and leave or get a long record of punishments till he gets banned.

From this you should understand who cares and who doesn't, who are the people that are contributing and who aren't, who are making constant fights with the others for pity reasons like being kicked from another group/clan and those who have some other hatred about a punishment from 9 months ago. These are the ones who are ruining the small numbers of new players we have and that's been since years now. Building takes a lot of time but destroying something happens instantly, sadly from our part it's been years of destruction meaning it will take much longer to rebuild.

[Thomas_A]

The community itself is killing the playerbase, the way things are being ran, it influences people and their dedication to the server. Write as long paragraphs as you want, but thats the truth and thats why people are leaving. Pretty sure thats how 70% of people have left, If they knew something was to be found here still such as good, enjoyable, quality roleplay they'd find that time in their busy schedules to pay a visit every now n' then.

[Miki.]

There are also 3 kinds of veterans;
1- The one trolling around just to annoy people (we have a lot of them)
2- The one that takes the new player and shows him around and tells him what the server has and what it offers and lets him choose what he wants to do and what he joins.
3- The one that takes the new player, teaches him how to make drugs and tells him to sell the drugs to him for low prices, basically enslaving him for his own benefit then get him in shootouts when he gets killed eventually by another rival group, and the new player starts hating that rival group since this very veteran says that they've been fighting like that since years (new player will get the impression of how he firstly died by that rival group), and then the new player starts getting into trouble with staff team until he gets bored and leave or get a long record of punishments till he gets banned.

From this you should understand who cares and who doesn't, who are the people that are contributing and who aren't, who are making constant fights with the others for pity reasons like being kicked from another group/clan and those who have some other hatred about a punishment from 9 months ago. These are the ones who are ruining the small numbers of new players we have and that's been since years now. Building takes a lot of time but destroying something happens instantly, sadly from our part it's been years of destruction meaning it will take much longer to rebuild.

Exactly this I barely know people who give new players the freedom of choosing they either push them to hate the rival group with comments such as " oh they are rulebreakers all they do is shoot" while you're the one taking the new player into your own problems and shoot outs. and if the new player you put effort into some how ends up on the rival side or even in absurd cases he decides not to join a rival group but just a different group from yours they get hunted. that's our sad reality if you approach a new player to teach him while in the back of your mind " I'll take him after as gun power or potential member" you're not doing your work properly and you better just stay away from new players since all you'll do is create hate and just draw them exactly into the problem of toxic people and OOC hate.
I had the though of " oh if I teach him he'll be a great addition" but I NEVER shitted on any other group in front the new player  or on the other hand praised my group as being the best, I always gave them all the freedom and did my duty as a veteran which is to teach and help. and not force his character or path.

it's idiotic how many players get hunted by groups only because they chose to not join them or left to try something they really want. and so many new players are drawn into the circle of hate a few veterans carry. the OOC hate is all around rather if it's being kicked from places and holding a grudge or any other pathetic reasons you find.

[Miki.]

The community itself is killing the playerbase, the way things are being ran, it influences people and their dedication to the server. Write as long paragraphs as you want, but thats the truth and thats why people are leaving. Pretty sure thats how 70% of people have left, If they knew something was to be found here still such as good, enjoyable, quality roleplay they'd find that time in their busy schedules to pay a visit every now n' then.

Yup that's a point too you can't make a change when some one above is stopping you, or dis motivates you.

[Pete]

naaah, don't put it on the veterans....it's their choice what to do, to help a player or not to and so on. We can't rely on veterans to teach the players..."they are trolls" they are because the server allowed them/gave them a reason to be ones..soo blame isn't on the vets

[Darty]

You guys seriously think veterans can do shit to save this server? Alright, let's talk without masks.
Veterans are  crucial, them coming back would be good, them teaching new players would be even better.

But. Fuck knows how are new players gonna stay and veterans will come back with the current server management. And no, don't delete this post just because I'm too honest, sorry, it's just how I am. Fucking server leaders tolerating plain daily deathmatch, demoting and removing members who actually give a shit about the server from the management, who actually do good things for the players, simply because they're honest, and point shit out. Now I'm not gonna say what, but we all know the massive shit that lays in the back of the " not - biased management ". Start the change from the top, for it to affect the bottom. Thank you.

Spoiler for Hiden:

As long as I didn't point out names there's no need for post to be removed.

Oh, and if a Server leader wants more information, my PM is open.